The French aren't very happy with us

[Ziggurat]

I never thought I'd see a western democratic country recall their ambassador from us. And before he left he gave us another serve. Like Cleese's French knight in Holy Grail!

Dropping a 90 billion contract has gotta hurt though, even if they get two billion change. :shocked:

They'll probably put up now all the wind turbines around the VILLERS BRETONNEUX memorial they've been wanting to do!

[Climax598]

Don't go to visit France this few years. I don't think we are welcome. The problems is from 50 billions to 90+billions in 5 years.

[rooter]

Fuck the Frogs.
I had a Citroen once. Worst car ever.
Should be called a Citron.

[zoozilla]

Australia has to choose between China and France or USA and UK.

We are going to miss French cheese. The smell of it is enough to make an 18-years-old punter horny.

[JJBlows]

Wasn't the French sub deal a dud from the begining?? One snippet was the Aussies wanted to have local suppliers involved in the project but the French refused.

I like how the Chinese can have nuclear subs but if we get them we are not allowed

[Ziggurat]

I do feel a bit sorry for the French. They are our allies. But the sub deal was turning into a real slow, expensive, argumentative grind. At least with the new deal everyone is speaking English.

I remember Turnbull boasting "they will be built in Australia using Australian steel." How absurd. The whole fleet would use as much steel as went into two floors of Packer's casino. The output of one mill by morning tea.

[asiafever]

Fuck the Frogs.
I had a Citroen once. Worst car ever.
Should be called a Citron.

I just want to show my appreciation for a criminally ignored gag.

[cumquat]

Fuck the Frogs.
I had a Citroen once. Worst car ever.
Should be called a Citron.

Actually one at the National Museum

Petit Citron

https://www.nma.gov.au/explore/collection/highlights/citroen-tourer

[tpol]

I had a Peugeot.

Gr8 Drive but straight after warranty in its 4th year,lots of things started having issues

[Fred Flintstone]

Just think. If the Soviets, British and the Americans didn’t come to the rescue, the French would be speaking German now

[Climax598]

Just think. If the Soviets, British and the Americans didn’t come to the rescue, the French would be speaking German now
Yap! Asia and Australia would be speaking Japanese if not for the American able to withstand the imperial Japan attack.

[local]

Just think. If the Soviets, British and the Americans didn’t come to the rescue, the French would be speaking German now

are the old magot line (yeah I know the wrong spelling :)

[GoldfishMan]

I thought France was "rescued" because they're the immediate neighbour to Britain. Once the Nazis gained full control of France, they were literally breathing down British necks.

Similar thing with the US in the Pacific theatre. They had to dominate the region to prevent enemies sneaking up on them from the West (eg. Pearl Harbour), because they have lots of allies and not any powerful enemies on the East.

[rooter]

Fuck the Frogs.
I had a Citroen once. Worst car ever.
Should be called a Citron.


I had a Peugeot.

Gr8 Drive but straight after warranty in its 4th year,lots of things started having issues

Citroen, Peugeot, and Renault - The Three Stooges of the automotive industry.
If the French subs are as shit as their cars then it's a good thing we got out of that deal.
Much better to have a big V8 Ford or Chevvy engine in your subs.

[GoldfishMan]

Citroen, Peugeot, and Renault - The Three Stooges of the automotive industry.
If the French subs are as shit as their cars then it's a good thing we got out of that deal.
Much better to have a big V8 Ford or Chevvy engine in your subs.
I always wondered why their cars are so shit, then I saw first hand how they drive and the fact that 95% of cars on Paris streets have at least a bingle on them. It all made sense after that, lol...

[Ziggurat]

Much better to have a big V8 Ford or Chevvy engine in your subs.

That might be sooner than you think. The government is thinking about leasing a couple of the Virginia class subs in the meantime. There could be a couple of those mothers patrolling the waters in a year or two.

[wilisno]

I thought France was "rescued" because they're the immediate neighbour to Britain. Once the Nazis gained full control of France, they were literally breathing down British necks.

Similar thing with the US in the Pacific theatre. They had to dominate the region to prevent enemies sneaking up on them from the West (eg. Pearl Harbour), because they have lots of allies and not any powerful enemies on the East.

In the movie The Patriots by Mel Gibson, the French helped America to gain Independence. ;) ;) ;)

[Climax598]

That might be sooner than you think. The government is thinking about leasing a couple of the Virginia class subs in the meantime. There could be a couple of those mothers patrolling the waters in a year or two.
Not that fast. We need to train our People in nuclear science. Is a new ball game and we only have one university teaching the course. The fastest would be in 10 year more like 15 years. Scomo already say like 2040 but if you say lease for US maybe 2030

[limbi8888]

French haven't really done much to help us, the minister is just upset cos he didn't know about it and now will cop it from the higher ups.
Someone has to take the blame for them not being able to sell us their subs.

[limbi8888]

Not that fast. We need to train our People in nuclear science. Is a new ball game and we only have one university teaching the course. The fastest would be in 10 year more like 15 years. Scomo already say like 2040 but if you say lease for US maybe 2030

At least it will give us a new skill in this country. Alot of skills have been lost in this country cos we export all our ideas

[rooter]

In the movie The Patriots by Mel Gibson, the French helped America to gain Independence. ;) ;) ;)

Not sure about all the details of the film but the basic premise that the French helped the Americans win the War of Independence is historically correct.
The French played an important role.
In fact many historians believe the US could not have won without help from the French.
But if Braveheart is any indication of Mel's respect for historical accuracy then I suspect a lot of the details are wrong :)

[zoozilla]

The French aren't very happy with us

To make us happy the French has got to export more of their girls to our shops and at competitive rates to that of Chinese girls.

Only then we could consider letting them build the propellers for our subs.

[TangoEcho]

That might be sooner than you think. The government is thinking about leasing a couple of the Virginia class subs in the meantime. There could be a couple of those mothers patrolling the waters in a year or two.

We could also get the UKs Astute class which on paper might better than the Virginia class.

This deal has been the story of us pissing off our allies. We annoyed the Japanese to start out with and now we've annoyed the French. At this rate we're going to spend a whole lot of money and get a bathtub.

[BAM]

I never considered myself racist, but I've never met a French person I like. Also goes with Belgians that have thick French accents. Accent isn't there problem, I just always seemed to not get along with them.

[Philyum]

To make us happy the French has got to export more of their girls to our shops and at competitive rates to that of Chinese girls.

Only then we could consider letting them build the propellers for our subs.

Hahahaha amen to that brother

[studsg]

To make us happy the French has got to export more of their girls to our shops and at competitive rates to that of Chinese girls.

Only then we could consider letting them build the propellers for our subs.Hmm... With us pissing off the French. Doubt we would get good service from their girls. While we are at it, how about using our deal making abilities with UK and US and get them to replace all the Chinese girls with UK and US ML and WL ?

Talk about diversification and helping us kick-start our ML and WL market again for us bros here

[studsg]

Yap! Asia and Australia would be speaking Japanese if not for the American able to withstand the imperial Japan attack.Interesting find while reading history about WWII.Realise that America was supplying Japan with everything they needed for invading Korea, Mongolia, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, practically all of Asia. Wasn't until the Europeans complained that their colonies in Asia were being taken over by Japan that America conceded to cut supply of petrol to Japan's war efforts. Which triggered Japan's attack on Pearl Harbour...

[zoozilla]

Hmm... With us pissing off the French. Doubt we would get good service from their girls. While we are at it, how about using our deal making abilities with UK and US and get them to replace all the Chinese girls with UK and US ML and WL ?

Talk about diversification and helping us kick-start our ML and WL market again for us bros here

I don't think the English and American girls would be rushing in to fill the $100 Happy Ending joints which have been dominated by the Chinese and Thai girls. We need to create Sex Bubbles and send empty Qantas planes to fly them over here.

Our punting tastes have been conditioned by Asian flavour over the years. With affordability and availability some punters are going through 4-5 Asian chicks in a week. More often than they change shirts.

[AHLUNGOR]

Yap! Asia and Australia would be speaking Japanese if not for the American able to withstand the imperial Japan attack.

When the Japanese Navy loss the battle of Mid Way, the war was as good as over. In fact it was more like a race to which country will be receiving the surrounding of the Imperial Army ? It could have been the Soviet Red Army once they started to march against the Japanese in Manchuria in Northern China. The US couldn’t allow the repeat of Berlin again so they quickly dropped the two A-Bombs to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Japs were toasted.

A small price they paid for the millions of Chinese people the Japanese had killed during their eight years of invasion in China.

[sleepy57]

India did a deal with France to build Subs for them & the French leaked the plans to the Chinese & Russians.
The arse hole Turnbull & Pyne did the deal with the Frogs to keep Pyne & SA happy.
Ask Churchill About his Frog Allies in the WW11. As soon as the Germans entered Paris the Frogs surrendered & Churchill had to sink the French fleet to save it from the Germans

[rooter]

I never considered myself racist, but I've never met a French person I like. Also goes with Belgians that have thick French accents. Accent isn't there problem, I just always seemed to not get along with them.

I only know two Belgians and they are both arrogant arseholes. Jean Claude Van Damme and Mathias Cormann.
Small sample size admittedly but 100% strike rate :)

[JJBlows]

I only know two Belgians and they are both arrogant arseholes. Jean Claude Van Damme and Mathias Cormann.
Small sample size admittedly but 100% strike rate :)

Did a bit of reading and there were some cultural conflicts that they couldn't agree on as French employees would have to come and work in Australia

1- Aussies are punctual so if a meeting starts at 2:00pm everybody needs to be there compared to the French who think if you get there around 2:15 you are still on time.

2- the French must have a month long holiday in august.

3- the hours they work are different to the Aussie 7-330, 9-5 with a longer lunch break.

4- projected cost was 40 billion but then blew out to 90 before the deal was officially signed.

5- Australia wanted atleast 80-90% of building done here to create jobs but the French wanted only 60% and to for it to be reduced at their discretion.

6- with china and the changing situation in Asia pacific the submarines quickly become obsolete for Australia's national security needs.

So yea the French are an arrogant bunch.

[studsg]

I don't think the English and American girls would be rushing in to fill the $100 Happy Ending joints which have been dominated by the Chinese and Thai girls. We need to create Sex Bubbles and send empty Qantas planes to fly them over here.

Our punting tastes have been conditioned by Asian flavour over the years. With affordability and availability some punters are going through 4-5 Asian chicks in a week. More often than they change shirts.

It will be interesting to see how the market evolves when the borders finally open. With our Govt sending such strong sentiments against the Chinese, highly unlikely there will be a flood of ladies lining up to fill our ML and WL numbers. But one can surely bet the flights to USA and UK destinations will be plenty the way we are going. Maybe our shops will evolve to $250 Happy Endings and $350 WL shops ? Hey... why talk abt Cowgirl positions when you can get a real Cowgirl from Texas on you with the hat thrown in ? We can also explore our curiosity abt whether stiff upper lips deliver a better BJ covered or otherwise ?

One thing I heard is that the French don't like to shower... so those Soapland visions not gonna happen with the French ladies

[tpol]

If ghenghis didn't die, European would look asian

[AHLUNGOR]

If ghenghis didn't die, European would look asian

Ghenghis Khan only united all the Mongolian Tripes , it was his sons and grand sons like Kublai Khan and Batu Khan who conquered Central Asia and went all the way to Hungary and Austria.

[tpol]

Ghenghis Khan only united all the Mongolian Tripes , it was his sons and grand sons like Kublai Khan and Batu Khan who conquered Central Asia and went all the way to Hungary and Austria.
Yeah. But they all left where they were, can't remember who was attacking on the door steps of Europe, when Genghis died to be the next khan of khan's

If he didn't die, they would've kept going west

[rooter]

Yeah. But they all left where they were, can't remember who was attacking on the door steps of Europe, when Genghis died to be the next khan of khan's

If he didn't die, they would've kept going west

A DNA study conducted in 2003 showed that there were 16 million men in the world who were descendants of Genghis Khan.
Go Genghis! Legend!

[warwick1]

A DNA study conducted in 2003 showed that there were 16 million men in the world who were descendants of Genghis Khan.
Go Genghis! Legend!

There was also a "Khan" in "Star Trek", possibly a future descendant...

[Riff888]

There was also a "Khan" in "Star Trek", possibly a future descendant...Yes, well Middle Eastern descent and genetically modified.

So Dr Bashir was like his ancestor in DS9.

Sent from my GM1910 using Tapatalk

[AHLUNGOR]

A DNA study conducted in 2003 showed that there were 16 million men in the world who were descendants of Genghis Khan.
Go Genghis! Legend!

Weren’t we all descendants of Adam and Eve?

[warwick1]

Weren’t we all descendants of Adam and Eve?

Which means we are all inbred, probably explains why the whole world is batshit crazy:grimace:

[tpol]

If Adam and eve were chinese, things would've been different.

They wouldn't have eaten the apple but cooked the snake and ate him

[Ziggurat]

Did anyone see that Beijing professor being interviewed on China Tonight on ABC last night? I've never heard an academic so belligerent. My jaw was dropping. He was literally threatening to drop nuclear bombs on us for getting the submarines. Several times! :shout: Those upper echelons sure live in a weird bubble over there.

But we are well and truly better off out of that French deal. On one hand they said we'd get 80 to 90% of the business while on the other hand Macron was boasting to the electorate about creating 3 or 4000 jobs in France out of it. The two sums never added up.

[GoldfishMan]

Forget about subs and frogs. There's a huge problem coming our way from China.
Keep an eye on Evergrande and then have a look at our beloved iron ore price.

[dotcumdotinyou]

Evergrande has gone, its now whether the Chinese govt will let it go and suppress any public discontent or force other companies to prop it up. Either way they're fucked, the government is already cracking down on the secondary loan market.

As for iron ore, watch WA head cap in hand to Canberra asking for more money to prop the state up...let the pricks succeed and look after themselves.

[Ziggurat]

Yeah, when the iron ore price was over $200 we still ended up 20 billion ahead in balance of trade with China despite the 20 billion of sales from us China had lopped off. Now the iron ore is under $100, but the 20 billion is still lost no matter where the iron ore price is.

(btw, the EU and US allies are both eatng our lunch without a second thought. They quickly began selling into China the 20 billion in barley, coal, crustaceans, wine etc sales we lost.)

[Climax598]

Yeah, when the iron ore price was over $200 we still ended up 20 billion ahead in balance of trade with China despite the 20 billion of sales from us China had lopped off. Now the iron ore is under $100, but the 20 billion is still lost no matter where the iron ore price is.

(btw, the EU and US allies are both eatng our lunch without a second thought. They quickly began selling into China the 20 billion in barley, coal, crustaceans, wine etc sales we lost.)
To get out of the bullying by other people and countries. We the had to have larger population, go nuclear, bigger munufacting industrial, bigger military, everythings is bigger then no want will bully little small Australia.

[GoldfishMan]

Evergrande has gone, its now whether the Chinese govt will let it go and suppress any public discontent or force other companies to prop it up. Either way they're fucked, the government is already cracking down on the secondary loan market.

As for iron ore, watch WA head cap in hand to Canberra asking for more money to prop the state up...let the pricks succeed and look after themselves.
There will not be a bail out from the Chinese Gov. They've said it before: houses are meant for living in, not for speculation. The failure of Evergrande goes to the heart of property speculator territory. I do not think it is wise to expect a communist regime to behave like any other capitalist driven government. If Evergrande can fall and does not completely destroy the system, they will let it fall.

[Climax598]

Did anyone see that Beijing professor being interviewed on China Tonight on ABC last night? I've never heard an academic so belligerent. My jaw was dropping. He was literally threatening to drop nuclear bombs on us for getting the submarines. Several times! :shout: Those upper echelons sure live in a weird bubble over there.

But we are well and truly better off out of that French deal. On one hand they said we'd get 80 to 90% of the business while on the other hand Macron was boasting to the electorate about creating 3 or 4000 jobs in France out of it. The two sums never added up.
As our defence minister vademot Dutton say counter-productive, immature and frankly embarrassing for China to threaten a small little Australia.

[studsg]

To get out of the bullying by other people and countries. We the had to have larger population, go nuclear, bigger munufacting industrial, bigger military, everythings is bigger then no want will bully little small Australia.A larger population without good leadership won't give us a better outcome. Indonesia has over 300 million ppl. Does that equate to a stronger country ?

Aus has many great minds and creations like when we started solar panels. But our country made it too expensive to manufacture anything here. So all the companies had to move overseas. Even our car industry had to shut cos it's just too expensive to manufacture here.

[studsg]

In fact, if the US really wanted to help Aus. They should setup the latest semi-conductor manufacturing plants here. That would really piss China off. Since China would have to invest 5 years to build up their semi-conductor manufacturing to reach the same level as US.

Imagine Aus supplying much needed micro-processors to the world.

[Climax598]

In fact, if the US really wanted to help Aus. They should setup the latest semi-conductor manufacturing plants here. That would really piss China off. Since China would have to invest 5 years to build up their semi-conductor manufacturing to reach the same level as US.

Imagine Aus supplying much needed micro-processors to the world.
Taiwan semi-conductor company in China can move to Australia that wil Piss them off even more.

[Climax598]

In fact, if the US really wanted to help Aus. They should setup the latest semi-conductor manufacturing plants here. That would really piss China off. Since China would have to invest 5 years to build up their semi-conductor manufacturing to reach the same level as US.

Imagine Aus supplying much needed micro-processors to the world.


A larger population without good leadership won't give us a better outcome. Indonesia has over 300 million ppl. Does that equate to a stronger country ?

Aus has many great minds and creations like when we started solar panels. But our country made it too expensive to manufacture anything here. So all the companies had to move overseas. Even our car industry had to shut cos it's just too expensive to manufacture here.
What are you say scomo is not good leadership. He is great knowing how to piss China off and get nuclear submarine.

[AHLUNGOR]

In fact, if the US really wanted to help Aus. They should setup the latest semi-conductor manufacturing plants here. That would really piss China off. Since China would have to invest 5 years to build up their semi-conductor manufacturing to reach the same level as US.

Imagine Aus supplying much needed micro-processors to the world.


China only has to take over Taiwan to control the world’s larger semi conductor company TSMC. Just saying it.

[studsg]

What are you say scomo is not good leadership. He is great knowing how to piss China off and get nuclear submarine.More like pissing the French and the rest of EU off

Plus shut down our manufacturing like our car industry. And tell everyone to focus on digging... Iron ore... Look at where the price of iron ore is now

[studsg]

China only has to take over Taiwan to control the world’s larger semi conductor company TSMC. Just saying it.Taking over Taiwan will costs more and just end up like XinJiang where all the Anglo Saxon countries will simply refuse to buy any Taiwan products at that point. So would not be the best way to get hold of semi conductor technology.

[studsg]

Taiwan semi-conductor company in China can move to Australia that wil Piss them off even more.Slightly different but still a good plan. Is we can move everything from Taiwan over here. If some smart leader can pull it off.

Set a 10 year plan and move all the Taiwan business and ppl that want to move to Aus and migrate everything here. Let China take over an empty island at the end of 10 years. That way everyone wins. Without using a single bullet.

The big win would be Aus will have a huge manufacturing industry of high tech factories producing, phones, semi conductor, LCD panels, etc.

Most importantly. We get a huge supply of Taiwanese ML and WL... Now tell me which party is promoting this plan and I'll vote for them

[GoldfishMan]

Manufacturing, in Australia? Dream on... The energy cost alone will make it not economically viable, don't even have to consider the wage cost. For that, we have the anti-nuke-power hippies to thank. I think the phrase "holier than thou" was invented for these numb-skulls.... They said "No, we won't have any part in developing fissile matter for nuclear bombs. Everyone else in the world can do it and enjoy cheap electricity, just not us. That's how we reduce nuclear bombs proliferation.". Here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Australia#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DAustral ia_has_never_had_a%2Carguments_for_avoiding_nuclea r_power.?wprov=sfla1

To me, this really is the root of all evil. This crucial factor of extremely high energy cost (in both monetary and environmental aspects) has created the following situation:
- no manufacturing industry in Australia
- the country has to rely heavily on other industries to survive
- one of them is mining. That makes us the economic slave to China
- other one is construction and real estate. That screws our younger generations.
- it also makes the cost of living in Australia disparately higher than everywhere else. This in turn makes it harder to control something like a pandemic through PHOs... There's just no leeway in people's lives and finances to do that.

If anyone has blood on their hands, it's this bunch of bozos who made it not possible for Australia to have nuclear power.

[warwick1]

Manufacturing, in Australia? Dream on... The energy cost alone will make it not economically viable, don't even have to consider the wage cost. For that, we have the anti-nuke-power hippies to thank. I think the phrase "holier than thou" was invented for these numb-skulls.... They said "No, we won't have any part in developing fissile matter for nuclear bombs. Everyone else in the world can do it and enjoy cheap electricity, just not us. That's how we reduce nuclear bombs proliferation.". Here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Australia#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DAustral ia_has_never_had_a%2Carguments_for_avoiding_nuclea r_power.?wprov=sfla1

To me, this really is the root of all evil. This crucial factor of extremely high energy cost (in both monetary and environmental aspects) has created the following situation:
- no manufacturing industry in Australia
- the country has to rely heavily on other industries to survive
- one of them is mining. That makes us the economic slave to China
- other one is construction and real estate. That screws our younger generations.
- it also makes the cost of living in Australia disparately higher than everywhere else. This in turn makes it harder to control something like a pandemic through PHOs... There's just no leeway in people's lives and finances to do that.

If anyone has blood on their hands, it's this bunch of bozos who made it not possible for Australia to have nuclear power.

Amen! You are spot on.........

[Climax598]

Manufacturing, in Austral.......

To me, this really is the root of all evil. This crucial factor of extremely high energy cost (in both monetary and environmental aspects) has created the following situation:
- no manufacturing industry in Australia
- the country has to rely heavily on other industries to survive
- one of them is mining. That makes us the economic slave to China
- other one is construction and real estate. That screws our younger generations.
- it also makes the cost of living in Australia disparately higher than everywhere else. This in turn makes it harder to control something like a pandemic through PHOs... There's just no leeway in people's lives and finances to do that.

If anyone has blood on their hands, it's this bunch of bozos who made it not possible for Australia to have nuclear power.
Now we know we depending on other people to manufacture thinks for us. I too was not happy when likes car was not manufacture here anymore. With this covid and China boycott we know now how fuck we are. The only way is nuclear energy. I know it takes time and have the political wells to do it.

[Climax598]

Moving all Taiwanese to here nowhere is going to happen because it well be 50% Taiwanese added to our population. More like getting their highly educated and rich business people, and special visa for WL/ML .

[asiafever]

Australia gaining nuclear powered submarines is only a small but sexy part of the story. Remembering that nuclear powered subs are not nuclear weaponised subs, it makes us one of only 7 countries with nuclear subs and the ones we are getting are top shelf. 8 subs would give us roughly half the fleet China currently has (US has roughly 70, dwarfing the rest of the world's fleet combined).
The real story that has been overlooked is that the treaty is about sharing military technologies, and we are about to gain air and sea launched cruise missiles. Some with long range capabilities, meaning from our far north Straits of Malacca and the South China sea will be reachable.
Now much has been made of China having the biggest navy by number of craft, roughly 700 ships. Most of these have a range of about 1000-1500km from base so no long range capability. If you look at the gross tonnage of their fleet it is 4-5 times smaller than America's and only about the size of a combined Japan and India. China is 100% dependant on imported raw materials and foreign markets, and the shipping routes are the only way to access these in the volumes required. For us to have access to weapons we can lob in to the most important route, the maritime Silk Road if you like, with India guarding the Indian ocean, the US dominating the Pacific and a ring of small countries that punch well above their weight in Korea, Japan and Taiwan (All of who have invested heavily in defence systems to protect against Chinese Air Force and missile threats), China is now surrounded, and we are now one of only 3 countries that can cripple these Chinese supply lines from beyond the range of the majority of their forces, and thus cripple their economic and political system if push comes to shove.

[GoldfishMan]

Now we know we depending on other people to manufacture thinks for us. I too was not happy when likes car was not manufacture here anymore. With this covid and China boycott we know now how fuck we are. The only way is nuclear energy. I know it takes time and have the political wells to do it.

Yes, agreed bro.
Let's think of it this way. Imagine if the entire planet was one big country without borders separating "this is yours, that is ours". Under that scenario, if you really wanted to do what's best for the "country", to ensure that each area was functioning at its best yet does not pollute the rest of the world, where are all the best places where you would put nuclear power stations?
The criteria would be places that are not prone to natural disasters (earthquakes, typhoons, etc), and that are sparsely populated. Australia would be top of that list for sure! Yet here we are, a victim of our own NIMBY-ism taken to the extreme.

[studsg]

While I agree nuclear power stations should definitely be one of the our sources of power replacing coal and gas power plants. However, that's not the main source for why our energy costs are high.

Many countries that do not have nuclear power plants also have cost competitive manufacturing. Singapore has a thriving semi-conductor sector, they even process all the fuel we produce but deem too expensive to process onshore. Thailand makes all our Japan car imports, Malaysia produces computers, sound systems, Etc. I would say the key factor is high labour costs that has crippled our ability for any form of manufacturing.

[Riff888]

I have a few French mates living in Sydney. I wonder how they feel about all this.

When I was travelling around Europe, I was told to avoid France because I didn't speak French.

But all the French people I've met here are really cool and most of the women are beautiful and super friendly.

Sent from my GM1910 using Tapatalk

[studsg]

While it's sexy to have the latest weapons. We also have to think how we gonna pay for them ?

We've committed Billions for those long range missiles based on when iron ore prices were 60% higher and still climbing... And iron ore is pretty much the largest contributor to our economy.

Do we reckon these 8 latest sexy subs will cost less than the French ones ? I doubt so, unless our buddies from US and UK are gonna give them to us free.

[Climax598]

Australia gaining nuclear powered submarines is only a small but sexy part of the story. Remembering that nuclear powered subs are not nuclear weaponised subs, it makes us one of only 7 countries with nuclear subs and the ones we are getting are top shelf. 8 subs would give us roughly half the fleet China currently has (US has roughly 70, dwarfing the rest of the world's fleet combined).
The real story that has been overlooked is that the treaty is about sharing military technologies, and we are about to gain air and sea launched cruise missiles. Some with long range capabilities, meaning from our far north Straits of Malacca and the South China sea will be reachable.
Now much has been made of China having the biggest navy by number of craft, roughly 700 ships. Most of these have a range of about 1000-1500km from base so no long range capability. If you look at the gross tonnage of their fleet it is 4-5 times smaller than America's and only about the size of a combined Japan and India. China is 100% dependant on imported raw materials and foreign markets, and the shipping routes are the only way to access these in the volumes required. For us to have access to weapons we can lob in to the most important route, the maritime Silk Road if you like, with India guarding the Indian ocean, the US dominating the Pacific and a ring of small countries that punch well above their weight in Korea, Japan and Taiwan (All of who have invested heavily in defence systems to protect against Chinese Air Force and missile threats), China is now surrounded, and we are now one of only 3 countries that can cripple these Chinese supply lines from beyond the range of the majority of their forces, and thus cripple their economic and political system if push comes to shove.
That why China is mad and piss off with Australia. There sea trade routes is being checkmate like in chess. There wolf warrior didn't calculate that Australia can go nuclear. Just watch if Japan going to build their own nuclear submarine if they do then China is really box in.

[Climax598]

While it's sexy to have the latest weapons. We also have to think how we gonna pay for them ?

We've committed Billions for those long range missiles based on when iron ore prices were 60% higher and still climbing... And iron ore is pretty much the largest contributor to our economy.

Do we reckon these 8 latest sexy subs will cost less than the French ones ? I doubt so, unless our buddies from US and UK are gonna give them to us free.
As long we don't modified it just build it as it is. It we'll be cheaper than the French subs.

[Climax598]

I have a few French mates living in Sydney. I wonder how they feel about all this.

When I was travelling around Europe, I was told to avoid France because I didn't speak French.

But all the French people I've met here are really cool and most of the women are beautiful and super friendly.

Sent from my GM1910 using Tapatalk
I more like how our Chinese Ml/Wl feels about this.

[GoldfishMan]

While I agree nuclear power stations should definitely be one of the our sources of power replacing coal and gas power plants. However, that's not the main source for why our energy costs are high.

Many countries that do not have nuclear power plants also have cost competitive manufacturing. Singapore has a thriving semi-conductor sector, they even process all the fuel we produce but deem too expensive to process onshore. Thailand makes all our Japan car imports, Malaysia produces computers, sound systems, Etc. I would say the key factor is high labour costs that has crippled our ability for any form of manufacturing.
I wouldn't agree with comparing us to a country like SG. All the parameters are different. For example, population density in SG is much greater than in Australia. One street lamp in SG illuminates an area for a far greater number of people than a street lamp in Australia. That pushes up the overall price of energy in Australia even if both these countries do not use nuclear power.

There's also the geographical location factor. SG is in a strategic location having many neighbouring poorer countries. They can leverage on that by signing extremely competitive supply agreements with their neighbours for just about everything... Water (check how stupid the Malaysian gov was to sign a FIXED PRICE contract to supply water to SG; they're actually paying money to supply SG with water now, due to inflation!) , energy, etc. Can't do any of that in a huge isolated country like Australia.

[studsg]

Australia gaining nuclear powered submarines is only a small but sexy part of the story. Remembering that nuclear powered subs are not nuclear weaponised subs, it makes us one of only 7 countries with nuclear subs and the ones we are getting are top shelf. 8 subs would give us roughly half the fleet China currently has (US has roughly 70, dwarfing the rest of the world's fleet combined).
The real story that has been overlooked is that the treaty is about sharing military technologies, and we are about to gain air and sea launched cruise missiles. Some with long range capabilities, meaning from our far north Straits of Malacca and the South China sea will be reachable.
Now much has been made of China having the biggest navy by number of craft, roughly 700 ships. Most of these have a range of about 1000-1500km from base so no long range capability. If you look at the gross tonnage of their fleet it is 4-5 times smaller than America's and only about the size of a combined Japan and India. China is 100% dependant on imported raw materials and foreign markets, and the shipping routes are the only way to access these in the volumes required. For us to have access to weapons we can lob in to the most important route, the maritime Silk Road if you like, with India guarding the Indian ocean, the US dominating the Pacific and a ring of small countries that punch well above their weight in Korea, Japan and Taiwan (All of who have invested heavily in defence systems to protect against Chinese Air Force and missile threats), China is now surrounded, and we are now one of only 3 countries that can cripple these Chinese supply lines from beyond the range of the majority of their forces, and thus cripple their economic and political system if push comes to shove.

Hmm... this one is interesting. Here we have the QUAD, etc on all Media channels saying we are sending our Navies to South China Sea to ensure that it remains "Free and Open"... but we know as does China. It's about blocking the supply of shipments to and from China. Hence, China is upping their ante to secure the South China Sea to ensure their shipping supply lines remain open. And we say we are not creating an arms race. The Irony of it.

[studsg]

I wouldn't agree with comparing us to a country like SG. All the parameters are different. For example, population density in SG is much greater than in Australia. One street lamp in SG illuminates an area for a far greater number of people than a street lamp in Australia. That pushes up the overall price of energy in Australia even if both these countries do not use nuclear power.

There's also the geographical location factor. SG is in a strategic location having many neighbouring poorer countries. They can leverage on that by signing extremely competitive supply agreements with their neighbours for just about everything... Water (check how stupid the Malaysian gov was to sign a FIXED PRICE contract to supply water to SG; they're actually paying money to supply SG with water now, due to inflation!) , energy, etc. Can't do any of that in a huge isolated country like Australia.

Fair enough to leave out SG. But say even if we do deploy Nuclear Power Stations here. Will that "Really" send our labour costs down to be able to build a Manufacturing Industry to compete against say Korea ? Japan ? Taiwan ? Spain ? and the list goes on....

[GoldfishMan]

Fair enough to leave out SG. But say even if we do deploy Nuclear Power Stations here. Will that "Really" send our labour costs down to be able to build a Manufacturing Industry to compete against say Korea ? Japan ? Taiwan ? Spain ? and the list goes on....
At least we won't be gimped at the starting line like we are now...

[GoldfishMan]

Besides, everything adds up. Energy cost affects every aspect of life. This is a simplistic view, but on an individual level, lower power bills = lower cost of living = lower wages required. Or, lower power bills = lower cost to run the country = (hopefully) lower taxes = again lower wages required. Hell even the cost of petrol will be affected because instead of using the fuel to generate electricity, there's more to go into cars. And now with EVs, the effect would be even more profound.

It's defo more complicated than the above, but the point is, energy cost is a major input to all these calculations.

[Climax598]

Fair enough to leave out SG. But say even if we do deploy Nuclear Power Stations here. Will that "Really" send our labour costs down to be able to build a Manufacturing Industry to compete against say Korea ? Japan ? Taiwan ? Spain ? and the list goes on....
If Scandinavian countries can do it I don't see why we can't. We just to have some back bone and the well to achieve.

[GoldfishMan]

On a side note, I hope I didn't jinx us. No sooner have I posted about us being a safe place for nuke power, we get earthquakes on the Eastern states! 😂😂

[Climax598]

Besides, everything adds up. Energy cost affects every aspect of life. This is a simplistic view, but on an individual level, lower power bills = lower cost of living = lower wages required. Or, lower power bills = lower cost to run the country = (hopefully) lower taxes = again lower wages required. Hell even the cost of petrol will be affected because instead of using the fuel to generate electricity, there's more to go into cars. And now with EVs, the effect would be even more profound.

It's defo more complicated than the above, but the point is, energy cost is a major input to all these calculations.
In France 70% of their energy are from nuclear so they don't depends on oil that much with EV coming using oil will be so less. That's why Europe,UK can move to EV by 2030. I wouldn't say we have to have 70% nuclear power but at least some nuclear power, some solar,some hydro,some wind

[studsg]

If Scandinavian countries can do it I don't see why we can't. We just to have some back bone and the well to achieve.

First we need to be weaned off the mining industry pulling our politicians strings to keep pushing all federal sponsorship towards them, i.e. Federal sponsored coal and gas power plants, Federal sponsored diesel discounts and the list goes on... So not sure about the backbone part, but they definitely have strings up their arses

[studsg]

On a side note, I hope I didn't jinx us. No sooner have I posted about us being a safe place for nuke power, we get earthquakes on the Eastern states! ����

Definitely you mate :shout:

Our 1st site for Nuclear Plant should be on Ayers Rock... solid foundation there in the middle of nowhere... and we can divert our submarine contract to a Nuclear power plant contract with the French too

But heck, we have so much desert in the middle of Aus, we can easily build 10 Nuclear power plants each producing GigaWatts of power to power all of Aus. Worst case if they blow up... we'll become the 5 Islands of Aus + Tassie

[dotcumdotinyou]

Nuclear Power station would need to be within reasonable range of a constant water supply, so that would rule out maralinga (it was was contaminated by the brits in the 50s, and "supposedly" cleaned up in the 90s).
WA near the ord river would be a good site.

[dotcumdotinyou]

The French subs contract was already running over budget without a sub built, I think the compensation we'll have to pay the French will be cheaper than completing the contract.

With the US bases we currently have and the ones that will eventually come (you wouldn't think they'd gives us nuclear attack subs and leave us to our own devices) I think we'll work out some sort of a nice lease agreement.

We've become strategically important to both the US and China.

[studsg]

Nuclear Power station would need to be within reasonable range of a constant water supply, so that would rule out maralinga (it was was contaminated by the brits in the 50s, and "supposedly" cleaned up in the 90s).
WA near the ord river would be a good site.

I was thinking about the latest Thorium-fuelled Molten Salt based Nuclear Power Plant that doesn't allow nuclear warhead yields and doesn't require massive amount of water to cool or that we have to keep radiated water supplies for hundreds of years. These type of power plants can be build in the desert away from the water and population.

So no "crazy green peace" hippies can go try and sabotage it

[studsg]

The French subs contract was already running over budget without a sub built, I think the compensation we'll have to pay the French will be cheaper than completing the contract.

With the US bases we currently have and the ones that will eventually come (you wouldn't think they'd gives us nuclear attack subs and leave us to our own devices) I think we'll work out some sort of a nice lease agreement.

We've become strategically important to both the US and China.

Countries that host US Troops has to sign-up to a co-payment scheme. Like Korea pays $900M to 1B per year, Japan pays $1.7B-2B per year, Germany pays $2.5B, etc. How much will Aus pay for US Troops and Submarine and missiles.... No wonder everyone says America makes money when there is war or even the word of war

[dotcumdotinyou]

The prototype of the thorium fueled power plant is soon to be tested in China...I wonder if Ji Jing Ping will sell it to us at the moment?

[SinSeeker]

While a nuclear powered submarine has a number of advantages and the way to go, I dont think Nuclear power for electricity is cost efficient. I was reading somewhere that Solar energy is the most cost efficient to produce followed by Wind energy. Maybe it made sense 15 years ago, but Australia should go down the path of clean energy. We had such a massive head start with Solar energy over the rest of the world, but muddled thinking and petty politics pandering to the Coal vote bank has seen us fall behind almost every major country. Australia is way behind other developed countries in adapting electric cars. The recent development of Electricity companies being approved to CHARGE homeowners for supplying electricity is another classic example. Surely the solution is to invest in a more modern grid that caters to a more energy efficient world rather than enabling electricity companies to make more profit!! I think that is why China has certain advantages in planning and implementing these things as they dont have to worry about the next election 3 years down the road.

[studsg]

While a nuclear powered submarine has a number of advantages and the way to go, I dont think Nuclear power for electricity is cost efficient. I was reading somewhere that Solar energy is the most cost efficient to produce followed by Wind energy. Maybe it made sense 15 years ago, but Australia should go down the path of clean energy. We had such a massive head start with Solar energy over the rest of the world, but muddled thinking and petty politics pandering to the Coal vote bank has seen us fall behind almost every major country. Australia is way behind other developed countries in adapting electric cars. The recent development of Electricity companies being approved to CHARGE homeowners for supplying electricity is another classic example. Surely the solution is to invest in a more modern grid that caters to a more energy efficient world rather than enabling electricity companies to make more profit!! I think that is why China has certain advantages in planning and implementing these things as they dont have to worry about the next election 3 years down the road.Agree 100% that charging home owners that send electricity into the Grid should be listed as a Crime. I mean seriously, all the excess power from home solar panels should be sent to a community battery or recycled to other users.

Just cos the Govt rather spend Billions on missiles and nuclear subs. How about spending those Billions on upgrading our Ausgrid so it catches up to the 21st century.

[Climax598]

Agree 100% that charging home owners that send electricity into the Grid should be listed as a Crime. I mean seriously, all the excess power from home solar panels should be sent to a community battery or recycled to other users.

Just cos the Govt rather spend Billions on missiles and nuclear subs. How about spending those Billions on upgrading our Ausgrid so it catches up to the 21st century.
As scomo say national security is more important. So he can win the coming election.

[studsg]

As scomo say national security is more important. So he can win the coming election.What national security threat are we facing ??

The only threat now is China surpassing USA as the biggest economy. Are we paying to fight other country's war again ? Like Vietnam, Afghanistan. US claims their objectives in Afghan was to remove the growth of terrorist there, in 20 years the number of members for the terrorist groups has grown by 3 times. Our veterans came back living with their injuries for the rest of their lives. Have they won ?

If there are people who will vote for him base on this. Good luck to us all.

[GoldfishMan]

While a nuclear powered submarine has a number of advantages and the way to go, I dont think Nuclear power for electricity is cost efficient. I was reading somewhere that Solar energy is the most cost efficient to produce followed by Wind energy. Maybe it made sense 15 years ago, but Australia should go down the path of clean energy. We had such a massive head start with Solar energy over the rest of the world, but muddled thinking and petty politics pandering to the Coal vote bank has seen us fall behind almost every major country. Australia is way behind other developed countries in adapting electric cars. The recent development of Electricity companies being approved to CHARGE homeowners for supplying electricity is another classic example. Surely the solution is to invest in a more modern grid that caters to a more energy efficient world rather than enabling electricity companies to make more profit!! I think that is why China has certain advantages in planning and implementing these things as they dont have to worry about the next election 3 years down the road.
Yes, very good points you made there bro. Solar power is indeed very cheap to setup, cost effective and clean. It only has one drawback which is the capacity problem because it relies on the Sun. Nuclear on the other hand gives that always on, always reliable source of energy once it is up and running.
That's why smart governments implement both sources of energy. You really want to get at that cheap clean goodness of solar energy, and cover for the lack of capacity with some nuclear power. China, Russia, India are all going with this mixed approach.
Meanwhile, the countries that have US-style democracy... lobbyists and vested interests galore... Are politicizing the issue. One party says nuclear power, the other side goes for solar and wind.

Why take sides when you can have both?

[SinSeeker]

Yes, very good points you made there bro. Solar power is indeed very cheap to setup, cost effective and clean. It only has one drawback which is the capacity problem because it relies on the Sun. Nuclear on the other hand gives that always on, always reliable source of energy once it is up and running.
That's why smart governments implement both sources of energy. You really want to get at that cheap clean goodness of solar energy, and cover for the lack of capacity with some nuclear power. China, Russia, India are all going with this mixed approach.
Meanwhile, the countries that have US-style democracy... lobbyists and vested interests galore... Are politicizing the issue. One party says nuclear power, the other side goes for solar and wind.

Why take sides when you can have both?Fair point about reliability bro. But I think all the other countries that have nuclear energy for electricity generation had a few decades head start. Given the amount of time the submarine contract has taken to go nowhere, the nuclear reactor may take decades and we may end up pissing off USA and UK like we pissed of Japan first and then France.

The combination of solar and batteries is working well in states like SA, so that may be the medium term solution. But again the batteries rely heavily on rare minerals. So hopefully battery technology evolves to be less reliant on these minerals (Toyota fuel cell technology is one example)

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[aussiegaigin]

Does this mean we won't be offered "French service" in shops any more.

[asiafever]

Does this mean we won't be offered "French service" in shops any more.

Reminds me of This, particularly the "French maid - Aussie maid in yellow bogcatchers".

https://youtu.be/kzwr8kQtCbI

[Climax598]

Can we stop DFK our girls from now on. I bet no.

[AHLUNGOR]

(CNN) - A US nuclear powered submarine struck an object underwater in the South China Sea on Saturday, according to two defense officials.

A number of sailors on board the USS Connecticut were injured in the accident, the officials said. None of the injuries were life-threatening, according to a statement from US Pacific Fleet. It's unclear what the Seawolf-class submarine may have hit while it was submerged.



Fast forward 10 years from now, when we finally get a nuclear Sub from the AUKUS and forced into doing some dirty works for Uncle Sam or His Majesty in the South China Sea. This could be an episode of Diggers in deep sea. Good luck to our boys.