Teenage boys arrested for robbing spree in five Sydney brothels

[yunglean]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/teenage-boys-target-five-brothels-in-one-night-during-robbing-spree-police-allege-20230310-p5cr2p.html

All happened on Feb 15 apparently. One of the papasans on the Christina Rd stretch in Villawood was injured.

Kids probably did this knowing that brothel employees tend to be more vulnerable/less willing to go to police for incidents. Gross behaviour

[drifter]

Could you imagine if you were in the premises when this happened and later received a summons as a witness. Try explaining that to your family and friends. lol

[Axeman123]

Could you imagine if you were in the premises when this happened and later received a summons as a witness. Try explaining that to your family and friends. lol Just gave it some thought......I couldn't explain.

[Raybo]

this sounds gang related to me.

[17012430]

Rubbish. Because they are under 18 they’ll be tried as children and will never see any jail time for this.

Those people were just trying to work. They hit relatively lower class brothels too that don’t make a whole heap of money to begin with. Ballandella for instance is a hole.

[cuteguy]

Could you imagine if you were in the premises when this happened and later received a summons as a witness. Try explaining that to your family and friends. lol

How about these guys breaking into your room while you're doing the WL and robbing you of your posessions?

[Raybo]

Gee, LV's post got deleted quick!!!

[GoldfishMan]

Rubbish. Because they are under 18 they’ll be tried as children and will never see any jail time for this.

Those people were just trying to work. They hit relatively lower class brothels too that don’t make a whole heap of money to begin with. Ballandella for instance is a hole.

Totally agree mate. The law in this country is pretty stupid when it comes to juveniles.

Might as well put up a blinking billboard saying "if you're younger than 18, you can go do any crime you like cos you're not going to be punished for it".

Do they really think kids are stupid and don't know where they stand in the law?

[priapus1966]

Two good aspects to this story. 1. The Brothels had the confidence to call the police. 2. that the Police took the reports seriously.

[JohnJones]

How about these guys breaking into your room while you're doing the WL and robbing you of your posessions?

That's a great opportunity for me to try my swordfighting skills.

[JohnJones]

Totally agree mate. The law in this country is pretty stupid when it comes to juveniles.

Might as well put up a blinking billboard saying "if you're younger than 18, you can go do any crime you like cos you're not going to be punished for it".

Do they really think kids are stupid and don't know where they stand in the law?

In some Asian countries they'll put these kids in juvenile detention that's similar to a prison - overcrowded dorms and a Milo tin as a shitter. And if the jail sentence for their crime goes past their 18th birthday they'll continue their sentence in an adult jail.

Maybe Australia should start doing something similar to curb teenage crimes, especially the ongoing ones in Alice Springs.

[17012430]

In some Asian countries they'll put these kids in juvenile detention that's similar to a prison - overcrowded dorms and a Milo tin as a shitter. And if the jail sentence for their crime goes past their 18th birthday they'll continue their sentence in an adult jail.

Maybe Australia should start doing something similar to curb teenage crimes, especially the ongoing ones in Alice Springs.

Not a bad idea… might help with the stabbings that are happening here in Sydney. Teenagers today are either complete shut ins or think they’re South Central gangsters.

[TheMaestro]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour!

[Axeman123]

Bring back conscription.3 yrs learning to be a man and a trade n life skills to boot. Oh yeah nearly forgot RESPECT.

[warwick1]

Let the cops "soften" the little turds up before they're brought in.......

[rooter]

Fuck 'em. They did the crime and now they should do the time.
I know they come from poor, broken, marginalized families and suburbs and communities, and they probably didn't have much chance in life, but hey they made a choice (albeit a very confined and limited choice) to be criminals and society has to treat them as criminals.
I know privileged white private school boys from the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs will do much worse things and will hurt and harm a lot more people with one keyboard stroke or click of the mouse and society will reward them and make then millionaires. but that's the world we live in. It sucks, but that's just life. Enjoy! Enjoy the brief moments of pleasure life gives you. The rest is just poverty, and cancer

[ReginaldBubbles]

In some Asian countries they'll put these kids in juvenile detention that's similar to a prison - overcrowded dorms and a Milo tin as a shitter. And if the jail sentence for their crime goes past their 18th birthday they'll continue their sentence in an adult jail.

Maybe Australia should start doing something similar to curb teenage crimes, especially the ongoing ones in Alice Springs.

Incarceration has never reduced crime. Prison is basically crime university.
Politician want to de seen as “tough on crime” though so their policies are typically punitive.
There’s heaps of actual children in NT prisons and it’s only made things worse.

[ReginaldBubbles]

Fuck 'em. They did the crime and now they should do the time.
I know they come from poor, broken, marginalized families and suburbs and communities, and they probably didn't have much chance in life, but hey they made a choice (albeit a very confined and limited choice) to be criminals and society has to treat them as criminals.
I know privileged white private school boys from the North Shore and Eastern Suburbs will do much worse things and will hurt and harm a lot more people with one keyboard stroke or click of the mouse and society will reward them and make then millionaires. but that's the world we live in. It sucks, but that's just life. Enjoy! Enjoy the brief moments of pleasure life gives you. The rest is just poverty, and cancer

Such a fatalist Rooter! Change is possible!

[iphone]

Would the brothel will report this to their protector ie backing ie some gangs that later punish the teenagers?

[GoldfishMan]

Incarceration has never reduced crime. Prison is basically crime university.
Politician want to de seen as “tough on crime” though so their policies are typically punitive.
There’s heaps of actual children in NT prisons and it’s only made things worse.

Ok Mr Bubbles. So, do you have a better idea than incarceration to reduce crime? Let's hear it then...

[ReginaldBubbles]

Ok Mr Bubbles. So, do you have a better idea than incarceration to reduce crime? Let's hear it then...

I'm no expert but there's plenty of examples if you google it.

Just one example. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-48885846

Do you actually think that harsher punishment is a deterrent or prevents people in certain doing it again? All the stats say it increases it and costs more in the long run.

[ReginaldBubbles]

How are these guys doing? The United States has 4.2% of the world's population.

Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison

United States — 2,068,800
China — 1,690,000
Brazil — 811,707
India — 478,600
Russia — 471,490
Thailand — 309,282
Turkey — 291,198
Indonesia — 266,259
Mexico — 220,866
Iran — 189,000

Top 10 Countries with the highest rate of incarceration (per 100,000)

United States — 629
Rwanda — 580
Turkmenistan — 576
El Salvador — 564
Cuba — 510
Palau — 478
British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) — 477
Thailand — 445
Panama — 423
Saint Kitts and Nevis — 423

[GoldfishMan]

I'm no expert but there's plenty of examples if you google it.

Just one example. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-48885846

Do you actually think that harsher punishment is a deterrent or prevents people in certain doing it again? All the stats say it increases it and costs more in the long run.

Uh, yah bro, I do. I really do think that harsher punishment is a deterrent.

And how about I ask you this: do you really think that these Western nations have embraced all these alternative "reform" methods because they knew that they were better, and that they were doing all this for the good of everyone involved? Hmm?

Have you ever considered that perhaps they started looking at all these "alternatives", simply because they've budgeted all the funds for proper criminal reform out of their governments, and now the system that they have left is completely inadequate to do anything BUT try something "alternative"?

As a previous poster said, take a look at what's happening in Alice Springs, bro. Yoga classes will do nothing for these stoned-out-of oblivion "kids".

[ReginaldBubbles]

Uh, yah bro, I do. I really do think that harsher punishment is a deterrent.

And how about I ask you this: do you really think that these Western nations have embraced all these alternative "reform" methods because they knew that they were better, and that they were doing all this for the good of everyone involved? Hmm?

Have you ever considered that perhaps they started looking at all these "alternatives", simply because they've budgeted all the funds for proper criminal reform out of their governments, and now the system that they have left is completely inadequate to do anything BUT try something "alternative"?

As a previous poster said, take a look at what's happening in Alice Springs, bro. Yoga classes will do nothing for these stoned-out-of oblivion "kids".

Well it's not about what you think, it's about the stats and the research and if you're gonna go with your feelings instead then I'll leave it there.

[warwick1]

Well it's not about what you think, it's about the stats and the research and if you're gonna go with your feelings instead then I'll leave it there.

Yes do everyone a favour and leave it there

[ReginaldBubbles]

Yes do everyone a favour and leave it there

Enjoy the daily Telegraph. Murdoch media always tells the truth.

https://www.businessinsider.com/dominion-lawsuit-rupert-murdoch-trump-going-increasingly-mad-fox-news-2023-3

[JohnJones]

Well it's not about what you think, it's about the stats and the research and if you're gonna go with your feelings instead then I'll leave it there.

I'd say to look at countries with lowest rates of crime - Singapore and Japan.

Japan's lower crime rates may have something to do with cultural values of "not to stand out" and "go with the flow" but there's also the way they treat their laws - all detainees are considered guilty until proven innocent. And if you've mistakenly done time in prison even when proven innocent years later, the only thing you'd receive is an apology.

Singapore however doesn't have the same cultural values as Japan and follows a Westminster based law as any former British colony such as yours truly, Australia. Their harsh, almost dictatorial laws means that citizen obedience is very strong. And once upon a time the Singaporean government even banned anal sex regardless of hetero or homosexual relationships (homosexuality is also banned there if I'm not mistaken), and there were people charged for anal sex whether through false accusations or through being caught red handed.

The problem here is that in most Western countries, juvies are treated as if they have zero faults. Maybe if they're under 10 years old they can be forgiven but they shouldn't be treated as if they're a 5 year old up until the age of 18. Some high school rape cases gets written off with a warning or community service just because they're not yet 18 and this impacts the rape victims severely. You can't just tell a rapist to do mandatory yoga classes, they might even rape the yoga teacher and other students while class is in session.

[JohnJones]

Enjoy the daily Telegraph. Murdoch media always tells the truth.

https://www.businessinsider.com/dominion-lawsuit-rupert-murdoch-trump-going-increasingly-mad-fox-news-2023-3

WTF has Donald Trump got to do with juvies?

[ReginaldBubbles]

And how about I ask you this: do you really think that these Western nations have embraced all these alternative "reform" methods because they knew that they were better, and that they were doing all this for the good of everyone involved? Hmm?

"kids".

Well I read it again and couldn't leave it there.

Most prisons in the US are private so it's about making money. America is a business not a community.

And putting it in inverted commas doesn't actually make them not kids.

#crimeuniversity

[ReginaldBubbles]

WTF has Donald Trump got to do with juvies?

It's to do with the Murdoch media promoting punitive justice to get internet clicks. The article is about how Murdoch doesn't give a shit about the truth.
Do I have to explain everything?

[ReginaldBubbles]

You can't just tell a rapist to do mandatory yoga classes, they might even rape the yoga teacher and other students while class is in session.


C'mon dude, theoretical hyperbole is the lowest form of debate

[JohnJones]

C'mon dude, theoretical hyperbole is the lowest form of debate

First of all it seems like you're running out of facts and ideas to debate on so you're gaslighting people in order to make your bruised ego feel better. The instructions was simple:

"Yes do everyone a favour and leave it there"

Then you go on posting a link unrelated to the issue, or what you'd like to call a "debate". Very typical for someone with a bruised ego to have a last word in the attempts to bruise the ego of others.

Then now you're calling my opinion a "theoretical hyperbole". I call it an opinion because unlike an egotistical immature adult, a matured person can respect an opinion, therefore I don't need to justify it as "facts" although there is a likelihood that serial rapists will continue raping if not jailed or castrated already.

Like the previous poster said, LEAVE already. No one needs to see you wimping over bruised egos.

[JohnJones]

Well I read it again and couldn't leave it there.

Most prisons in the US are private so it's about making money. America is a business not a community.

And putting it in inverted commas doesn't actually make them not kids.

#crimeuniversity

Does that mean the private prisons are run by lawmakers, judges and juries? Because prison sentences are not handed down by CEOs and board members the last time I checked.

The Australian immigration detention is run jointly by the DIBP and a private company called Serco. Refugees and people whose visas are cancelled are not put there by Serco, in fact the DIBP would rather deport these people if not for their refugee claims and other visa processing issues because it's costing taxpayers money to feed, clothe and accommodate them.

You're taking this issue down a path you know nothing about and talking out of your arse.

[ReginaldBubbles]

Does that mean the private prisons are run by lawmakers, judges and juries? Because prison sentences are not handed down by CEOs and board members the last time I checked.

The Australian immigration detention is run jointly by the DIBP and a private company called Serco. Refugees and people whose visas are cancelled are not put there by Serco, in fact the DIBP would rather deport these people if not for their refugee claims and other visa processing issues because it's costing taxpayers money to feed, clothe and accommodate them.

You're taking this issue down a path you know nothing about and talking out of your arse.


My ego is fine dude, I'm only interested in the facts but you seem super defensive so I apologise. And the privatisation thing leads to corruption. Do some digging on Serco contracts and whether it seems like the government gave a fuck how much those contracts cost.

"You can't just tell a rapist to do mandatory yoga classes, they might even rape the yoga teacher and other students while class is in session."
Not sure anyone was proposing this? Unsupervised yoga classes where anyone can just rape anyone? Hypothetical hyperbole, aka gaslighting. But I note your preference for opinion to facts.
Also I don't take "instructions".

Can anyone provide any evidence where more punitive action resulted in lower crime rates and a lower recidivism rate?
More interested in facts than opinion and personal attacks.

[JohnJones]

My ego is fine dude, I'm only interested in the facts but you seem super defensive so I apologise. And the privatisation thing leads to corruption. Do some digging on Serco contracts and whether it seems like the government gave a fuck how much those contracts cost.

"You can't just tell a rapist to do mandatory yoga classes, they might even rape the yoga teacher and other students while class is in session."
Not sure anyone was proposing this? Unsupervised yoga classes where anyone can just rape anyone? Hypothetical hyperbole, aka gaslighting. But I note your preference for opinion to facts.
Also I don't take "instructions".

Can anyone provide any evidence where more punitive action resulted in lower crime rates and a lower recidivism rate?
More interested in facts than opinion and personal attacks.

Defensive is just an opinion, which I respect. Also the fact that you apologised - apology accepted.

Rape doesn't happen in public where everyone can see. Rapists are opportunists, they always stalk and wait out for the best moments to do the crime. Again I would rather call this an opinion rather than fact because I have no way of proving that rapists think this way all the time, just that if I were to put myself in the shoes of a rapist that's what I might do.

Like mentioned in my previous reply, Singapore has a very strict yet effective rule of law that has successfully made it the country with the lowest crime rates in the world without resorting to cultural brainwashing like Japan. Many Singaporeans are not culturally civic in the first place, for example they may spit, chew gum, smoke cigarettes far from the nearest smoking areas when outside their own country but when back in Singapore they suddenly become a model citizen. Strict regard to consequences does work, however this may cause a high influx of immigration export because people may want more freedom.

All private companies are corrupt depending on the business arrangements. Serco is no exception, but they don't dictate who gets to stay in immigration detention or not, it is DIBP. The same as prisons in US, it is either the police, sheriff's office, judge or the DA that determines who gets to stay in prison and for how long. Whether the prison gets overcrowded or not the private companies are still getting the same pay, and I'm pretty they'd rather not have an overcrowded prison because it'll reduce their profits.

[ReginaldBubbles]

Defensive is just an opinion, which I respect. Also the fact that you apologised - apology accepted.

Rape doesn't happen in public where everyone can see. Rapists are opportunists, they always stalk and wait out for the best moments to do the crime. Again I would rather call this an opinion rather than fact because I have no way of proving that rapists think this way all the time, just that if I were to put myself in the shoes of a rapist that's what I might do.

Like mentioned in my previous reply, Singapore has a very strict yet effective rule of law that has successfully made it the country with the lowest crime rates in the world without resorting to cultural brainwashing like Japan. Many Singaporeans are not culturally civic in the first place, for example they may spit, chew gum, smoke cigarettes far from the nearest smoking areas when outside their own country but when back in Singapore they suddenly become a model citizen. Strict regard to consequences does work, however this may cause a high influx of immigration export because people may want more freedom.

All private companies are corrupt depending on the business arrangements. Serco is no exception, but they don't dictate who gets to stay in immigration detention or not, it is DIBP. The same as prisons in US, it is either the police, sheriff's office, judge or the DA that determines who gets to stay in prison and for how long. Whether the prison gets overcrowded or not the private companies are still getting the same pay, and I'm pretty they'd rather not have an overcrowded prison because it'll reduce their profits.


So a yoga class is probably not the best place to rape someone.

In the US and also some private prisons here now the companies get paid per prisoner. And the contracts guarantee a certain number of prisoners per year so the justice and immigration system have to provide. There's not actually any incentive to reduce crime, the only incentive is to look like you're being tough about it. More people go to prison and are institutionalised into a life of crime, crime continues, politicians rhetoric gets tougher..

With kids there's an opportunity to steer them in a different direction and make them feel like a part of society before they get worse.

And does anyone here want public caning like Singapore? It's also one of the most boring countries in the world :shout:

[JohnJones]

So a yoga class is probably not the best place to rape someone.

In the US and also some private prisons here now the companies get paid per prisoner. And the contracts guarantee a certain number of prisoners per year so the justice and immigration system have to provide. There's not actually any incentive to reduce crime, the only incentive is to look like you're being tough about it. More people go to prison and are institutionalised into a life of crime, crime continues, politicians rhetoric gets tougher..

With kids there's an opportunity to steer them in a different direction and make them feel like a part of society before they get worse.

And does anyone here want public caning like Singapore? It's also one of the most boring countries in the world :shout:

Sounds alot like what conspiracy theorists would bring up...

One of my friend is a social worker who attends a dormitory for troubled kids that are removed from their parents. Some have both parents in jail and no relatives who wants to take them in while others are removed from their parents because they're druggies. No matter how young you try to steer them into the "good side of society", they've been exposed to so much family violence that they've become like human parrots mimicking their parent's behaviours. In some cases if they don't like the social worker they will run out of the dorm into the parking lot and smash the social worker's car.

These kids know no bounds anymore. And they know their actions have no consequences therefore they can do anything. Maybe these kids should be sent to Singapore to experience public caning. Call it a "field trip".

[GoldfishMan]

Well I read it again and couldn't leave it there.

Most prisons in the US are private so it's about making money. America is a business not a community.

And putting it in inverted commas doesn't actually make them not kids.

#crimeuniversity

Let me make it simple. Almost everyone in our society knows that juvenile crime is a problem that is inadequately handled by the system. The criminals know this, there are gangs that actively recruit and use juvies. The cops, prosecutors and magistrates know this but they can’t do anything about it because they can’t instantly change legislation. Journos, ordinary citizens caught in the midst, all know it doesn’t work. I’ll say it again: look at Alice Springs and tell me, is it working?

And now we talk about adult crime. All these research and stats mean nothing without understanding the context. What is it like in that particular country? Take Norway for example. You seem to like how it works there. This country enjoys a per-capita GDP that is second in Europe only to Luxembourg. It is a rich, oil-producing nation, constantly gets awarded #1 in HDI globally, and provides extremely generous welfare to its citizens. I think it’s fair to say that not many people go hungry or live poorly there.

Against this backdrop, it is not surprising at all to see that the crime rate is very low and it would be a lot easier to reform criminals with “yoga classes”.

[Daffy]

Just a little point on sexual assault and recidivism rates, there used to be a program here in NSW prisons that worked with inmates that had been convicted of sexual assault. For inmates that successfully completed the program less than 3% reoffended within an 8 year period while the rate of reoffending for inmates that didn’t complete the program is closer to 90% within 10 years of release. As an incentive for people to complete the program they got a sentence reduction if they passed.

The program was shutdown by the current Liberal government because they don’t believe in being “soft on crime”. This is the punitive punishment mind set that doesn’t work when it becomes more about punishing crime than preventing it from happening in the first place

[Daffy]

If you want the other side of the coin I was told some interesting stuff about crime in Tonga and Samoa. Basically if someone gets convicted there not only do they get punished but so do their parents and the village chief as they should have done a better job raising them.

They also mentioned they had a different punishments for if the victim was local or a tourist as they rely so heavily on tourism. Essentially if a tourist is the victim of a crime they throw the local in a hole and loose the key.

[dotcumdotinyou]

The problem most western countries like Australia have is that prisoners have rights. Not only do we have to provide them with food and water, but we have to provide them with TVs, gyms, exercise yards, libraries, reading materials, etc. That's basically why being sent to prison is considered as a holiday for a lot of criminals. None of them are afraid of the prison system.

What we should do is take all their rights away (as they have done to their victims). Prisons should consist of nothing more than a 6 foot x 4 foot room with a mattress and toilet and that's it, a small "cat door" at the bottom to slide in a cheese sandwich and a bottle of water. And that's where you stay for the term of your imprisonment. No contact with any other prisoners, that way it eliminates the drug problem as well as an older prisoner teaching new recruits. It would also stop puny little guys going in beefing up on steroids and gym workouts and coming out testorine fueled gorillas itching to kill or rape someone.

It would cost the government (us as taxpayers) less as you'd have less need of guards. It would also put fear back into going to prison to most of the criminals knowing that they're going into solitary.

And I'm not joking, I'd seriously do this even to juveniles.

[GoldfishMan]

The problem most western countries like Australia have is that prisoners have rights. Not only do we have to provide them with food and water, but we have to provide them with TVs, gyms, exercise yards, libraries, reading materials, etc. That's basically why being sent to prison is considered as a holiday for a lot of criminals. None of them are afraid of the prison system.

What we should do is take all their rights away (as they have done to their victims). Prisons should consist of nothing more than a 6 foot x 4 foot room with a mattress and toilet and that's it, a small "cat door" at the bottom to slide in a cheese sandwich and a bottle of water. And that's where you stay for the term of your imprisonment. No contact with any other prisoners, that way it eliminates the drug problem as well as an older prisoner teaching new recruits. It would also stop puny little guys going in beefing up on steroids and gym workouts and coming out testorine fueled gorillas itching to kill or rape someone.

It would cost the government (us as taxpayers) less as you'd have less need of guards. It would also put fear back into going to prison to most of the criminals knowing that they're going into solitary.

And I'm not joking, I'd seriously do this even to juveniles.

My problem with the handling of juvenile crime is how "juvenile" is defined. It does not make sense to me that someone who commited a crime 1 day before he turns 18 would be treated as a juvy and be spared the full force of the law, but on the other hand if he'd done it 1 day after it would be vastly different. Did he just learn all about being an adult overnight?

I can't say that I know what's best, but there must be a better way than this.

[warwick1]

My problem is the forgetting of the victims and the lefties worrying more about the "little" crims, The lunatic Greens are pushing for the voting age to be 16, so then that means they should be sentenced as an adult..........

[CantCme]

Dotcumdotinyou - buddy you are an absolute reject of a human being. No clue about the real world you should stay behind your computer

[CountryPunter]

Dotcumdotinyou - buddy you are an absolute reject of a human being. No clue about the real world you should stay behind your computer

Why??

Perhaps that view is a bit extreme but people can be forgiven for having strong views like that.
As a society we’ve gone soft. People need to accept the consequences for their behaviour….regardless of their age. If they break the law they should be punished for it. Not given a token slap on the wrist. And if that means they get locked up with no access to the creature comforts that we as a first world country are used to so be it.

The problem as I see it is we are now into the third generation of people who have become used to no discipline from a young age. So there is no respect for police, teachers etc. If a mother attempts to discipline a misbehaving child while in public with any more than a slightly raised voice she is at risk of being reported for child abuse.

I grew up in a time where if a kid played up at school they got the cane. Police could kick an errant kid up the arse and send him on his way. Nobody got seriously hurt but people in authority were respected.

We’ve dug ourselves a huge hole and I can’t see how we’re ever going to get out of it.

[ReginaldBubbles]

The problem most western countries like Australia have is that prisoners have rights. Not only do we have to provide them with food and water, but we have to provide them with TVs, gyms, exercise yards, libraries, reading materials, etc. That's basically why being sent to prison is considered as a holiday for a lot of criminals. None of them are afraid of the prison system.

What we should do is take all their rights away (as they have done to their victims). Prisons should consist of nothing more than a 6 foot x 4 foot room with a mattress and toilet and that's it, a small "cat door" at the bottom to slide in a cheese sandwich and a bottle of water. And that's where you stay for the term of your imprisonment. No contact with any other prisoners, that way it eliminates the drug problem as well as an older prisoner teaching new recruits. It would also stop puny little guys going in beefing up on steroids and gym workouts and coming out testorine fueled gorillas itching to kill or rape someone.

It would cost the government (us as taxpayers) less as you'd have less need of guards. It would also put fear back into going to prison to most of the criminals knowing that they're going into solitary.

And I'm not joking, I'd seriously do this even to juveniles.

And when they get out they'll be perfect and useful members of society with no mental or physical health problems and won't cost the community any money at all and won't commit any further crimes.

And you'll feel good knowing they've been punished and can live your best alpha male tough guy life.

[schloong]

Why??

Perhaps that view is a bit extreme but people can be forgiven for having strong views like that.
As a society we’ve gone soft. People need to accept the consequences for their behaviour….regardless of their age. If they break the law they should be punished for it. Not given a token slap on the wrist. And if that means they get locked up with no access to the creature comforts that we as a first world country are used to so be it.

The problem as I see it is we are now into the third generation of people who have become used to no discipline from a young age. So there is no respect for police, teachers etc. If a mother attempts to discipline a misbehaving child while in public with any more than a slightly raised voice she is at risk of being reported for child abuse.

I grew up in a time where if a kid played up at school they got the cane. Police could kick an errant kid up the arse and send him on his way. Nobody got seriously hurt but people in authority were respected.

We’ve dug ourselves a huge hole and I can’t see how we’re ever going to get out of it.


I'm with you there mate...

[ReginaldBubbles]

Why??

Perhaps that view is a bit extreme but people can be forgiven for having strong views like that.
As a society we’ve gone soft. People need to accept the consequences for their behaviour….regardless of their age. If they break the law they should be punished for it. Not given a token slap on the wrist. And if that means they get locked up with no access to the creature comforts that we as a first world country are used to so be it.

The problem as I see it is we are now into the third generation of people who have become used to no discipline from a young age. So there is no respect for police, teachers etc. If a mother attempts to discipline a misbehaving child while in public with any more than a slightly raised voice she is at risk of being reported for child abuse.

I grew up in a time where if a kid played up at school they got the cane. Police could kick an errant kid up the arse and send him on his way. Nobody got seriously hurt but people in authority were respected.

We’ve dug ourselves a huge hole and I can’t see how we’re ever going to get out of it.

Back when a man could beat and rape his wife and it was considered a "family matter". You could push a fag off a cliff and the cops would barely look into it. Those were the days...

[BDU]

I have to say I am appalled by the majority of comments and the tone of this thread.
Too many political viewpoints and absolutely nonsensical analogies like the one above.
You do know that nowadays (and then) you could rundown anyone you wanted in your car, drink a bottle of whiskey after and be very unlikely to face jail time. So the good old days are alive and well. Or you can steal millions from your employer, shove the money under your mattress and claim you are bipolar and blew it all on gambling whilst drunk and depressed and maybe if you are unlucky cop a year or two on a prison farm then go home to collect your cash.

There is no point in arguing such puerile and selective examples.

This is a very polar argument. To punish and to hold to account or to educate and forgive, leaving a very large grey area in between.
Most importantly not all criminal and indeed people in general are the same or respond the same to any situation.


Sure some prisoners are able to be rehabilitated. Some are not.

The simple answer is that the reason for imprisoning law breakers is ostensibly 2 fold.
1. Remove the offenders right to be part of regular society.
2. Protect the other members of said society

If you cannot live by the rules the rest of society does then you lose your right to function in that society
Sure rehabilitation is a noble and ideal target but punishment for your actions must come first.

We have seen the gradual decline of personal responsibility for too long to the point now where every action you make is blamed on someone or something in your past.
This is very much to blame for the lack of respect of law and order in society.
The masses generally have no respect for judiciary in giving fair sentences and the criminals see loopholes and Get out of Jail free cards everywhere.

Bad behaviour must be suitably punished.
There is a plethora of history on this and I am reluctant to say too much because I cannot be arsed to point you at the relevant info and it would seriously consume a few months of my life to do it properly.

Similarly citing stats with no background info is a very weak way to make a point so I will refrain.

I will however say that just because a country has high incarceration % does not mean the system of incarceration is at fault.

Take a look at some of the Eastern European countries for example who simply release offenders on parole and do not monitor them. They even allow them to leave their country and go on to commit crimes elsewhere. This was rife in the UK around 15 yrs ago and was a large factor in the EU denying some countries membership.

I think I have said enough otherwise I will start doing what I am complaining about others doing.

In summation.
Crime has to be punished and yes with incarceration/exclusion
Personal responsibility has to be acknowledged
Rehabilitation can be done during that period.
Not all people are redeemable.

[rooter]

Give them a haircut! Put them in the army!

[dotcumdotinyou]

The looney lefts are out in pairs Reginald and don't want to c u.

Over the years I've employed ex inmates, one of my current employee's nephew is in prison and his best friend got out last year after 8 years behind bars. The one thing they all agree on is that solitary sucks and they behave as best as they can in that hostile environment to stay out of it. You put the entire prison population in solitary from the start, without any visitors while they're incarcerated and when they get out they'll think twice before committing crimes again.

[wilisno]

Give them a haircut! Put them in the army!

We might even find a few Mavericks in them…

[Jabberwocky]

How are these guys doing? The United States has 4.2% of the world's population.

Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison

United States — 2,068,800
China — 1,690,000
Brazil — 811,707
India — 478,600
Russia — 471,490
Thailand — 309,282
Turkey — 291,198
Indonesia — 266,259
Mexico — 220,866
Iran — 189,000

Top 10 Countries with the highest rate of incarceration (per 100,000)

United States — 629
Rwanda — 580
Turkmenistan — 576
El Salvador — 564
Cuba — 510
Palau — 478
British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) — 477
Thailand — 445
Panama — 423
Saint Kitts and Nevis — 423

What ReginaldBubbles raised is a very nuanced topic. As an outsider, the USA always appeared to be quite mysterious. Privatization of the judicial system back in the 80s and 90s was never a good idea. You have prisons that aren't established to rehabilitate the inmates. Rather, they make a profit by exploiting them and I think this partly drives the high incarceration rate. Also, I am sure a lack of welfare, lenient access to firearms, etc. won't help.

Returning to the case, there could have been many factors that led to the robbery. These include a disrupted family, a poor circle of friends, conduct disorders, etc which would not have been captured in the news. I am sure many on this forum would agree (or at least acknowledge) that as an adolescent, it would have been very easy to make the wrong choice (you simply wouldn't have known better to rise above the occasion). However, I could also understand why others would feel the current judicial system is too lenient especially when stories like this frequently make the news. Anyone would like to hazard a guess how long their sentences would be (if at all)?

[ReginaldBubbles]

I have to say I am appalled by the majority of comments and the tone of this thread.
Too many political viewpoints and absolutely nonsensical analogies like the one above.
You do know that nowadays (and then) you could rundown anyone you wanted in your car, drink a bottle of whiskey after and be very unlikely to face jail time. So the good old days are alive and well. Or you can steal millions from your employer, shove the money under your mattress and claim you are bipolar and blew it all on gambling whilst drunk and depressed and maybe if you are unlucky cop a year or two on a prison farm then go home to collect your cash.

There is no point in arguing such puerile and selective examples.

This is a very polar argument. To punish and to hold to account or to educate and forgive, leaving a very large grey area in between.
Most importantly not all criminal and indeed people in general are the same or respond the same to any situation.


Sure some prisoners are able to be rehabilitated. Some are not.

The simple answer is that the reason for imprisoning law breakers is ostensibly 2 fold.
1. Remove the offenders right to be part of regular society.
2. Protect the other members of said society

If you cannot live by the rules the rest of society does then you lose your right to function in that society
Sure rehabilitation is a noble and ideal target but punishment for your actions must come first.

We have seen the gradual decline of personal responsibility for too long to the point now where every action you make is blamed on someone or something in your past.
This is very much to blame for the lack of respect of law and order in society.
The masses generally have no respect for judiciary in giving fair sentences and the criminals see loopholes and Get out of Jail free cards everywhere.

Bad behaviour must be suitably punished.
There is a plethora of history on this and I am reluctant to say too much because I cannot be arsed to point you at the relevant info and it would seriously consume a few months of my life to do it properly.

Similarly citing stats with no background info is a very weak way to make a point so I will refrain.

I will however say that just because a country has high incarceration % does not mean the system of incarceration is at fault.

Take a look at some of the Eastern European countries for example who simply release offenders on parole and do not monitor them. They even allow them to leave their country and go on to commit crimes elsewhere. This was rife in the UK around 15 yrs ago and was a large factor in the EU denying some countries membership.

I think I have said enough otherwise I will start doing what I am complaining about others doing.

In summation.
Crime has to be punished and yes with incarceration/exclusion
Personal responsibility has to be acknowledged
Rehabilitation can be done during that period.
Not all people are redeemable.

Your post is way too nuanced and considered for a forum full of moronic deviants. I prefer my method of biting satirical wit.

[ReginaldBubbles]

The looney lefts are out in pairs Reginald and don't want to c u.

Over the years I've employed ex inmates, one of my current employee's nephew is in prison and his best friend got out last year after 8 years behind bars. The one thing they all agree on is that solitary sucks and they behave as best as they can in that hostile environment to stay out of it. You put the entire prison population in solitary from the start, without any visitors while they're incarcerated and when they get out they'll think twice before committing crimes again.

8 years of solitary confinement and ready to slip straight back into society!

[Raybo]

Let's say they are found guilty and sentenced as adults. What's the punishment for this particular crime? 3 or 4 years with a non-parole period of 2 years?

[Double_Adapter]

We've gone from one extreme to the other. From public floggings, stoning, flagellations, crucifixions, the gillotine, burning at the stake, torturing, mutilations etc to wrapping society in cotton wool, rewarding laziness and social loafers, giving pretentious minority groups control and power, misinformation and disinformation is promoted as gospel, and the advancing of social conditioning, PC and cancel cultures. Society is full of soft cocks with manginas and you only need to look at some members on this forum to realise that.

Society, its systems, laws, and norms is beyond repair. No matter what we do today, somebody will come up with a fucked up idea and make the situation even worse. Any decisions or changes made will take years and decades before the effects are felt! What we are seeing today is the effects of those fucked up ideas and decisions made decades ago.

A world war is what is needed, that should reset everything.

[CountryPunter]

We've gone from one extreme to the other. From public floggings, stoning, flagellations, crucifixions, the gillotine, burning at the stake, torturing, mutilations etc to wrapping society in cotton wool, rewarding laziness and social loafers, giving pretentious minority groups control and power, misinformation and disinformation is promoted as gospel, and the advancing of social conditioning, PC and cancel cultures. Society is full of soft cocks with manginas and you only need to look at some members on this forum to realise that.

Society, its systems, laws, and norms is beyond repair. No matter what we do today, somebody will come up with a fucked up idea and make the situation even worse. Any decisions or changes made will take years and decades before the effects are felt! What we are seeing today is the effects of those fucked up ideas and decisions made decades ago.

A world war is what is needed, that should reset everything.

Mostly I agree with what you’re saying. We’ve certainly gone from one extreme to the other.

Not sure a world war is needed though. It would certainly reset things. At least for the few survivors that still existed when it was all over.

There’s too many very dangerous weapons in the hands of unstable world leaders with huge egos. If one of these guys feels he’s getting backed into a corner I’m sure the red button will get pushed. And if the first one gets fired there’s sure to be retaliatory return fire.

Don’t know what happened to ‘Live and let live’ or ‘Make love not war’

[BDU]

Your post is way too nuanced and considered for a forum full of moronic deviants. I prefer my method of biting satirical wit.

Normally so do I.
Discipline and alternate punishment is just something I have worked on at several different times of my life both professionally and in a volunteer capacity. Mainly young kids and ethnic groups but also adults.

All good I'll just stop reading these types of threads.

[colintheboyy]

This is some really fucked up stuff. They knew what they were doing and should be tried as adults.

[Double_Adapter]

There’s too many very dangerous weapons in the hands of unstable world leaders with huge egos. If one of these guys feels he’s getting backed into a corner I’m sure the red button will get pushed. And if the first one gets fired there’s sure to be retaliatory return fire.



I hate being the bearer of bad news but a world war is inevitable - and it's not a question of if but when.
Nations don't spend billions and trillions of dollars on military arsenal for fun or the FOMO.

People have started wars over the most trivial things Eg over a woman, a signed piece of paper, some crappy piece of land, a sea channel, a flag, what somebody said, over a pastry shop, some religious belief, a punting review, a touched up photo etc

A recent war we had in Oz was the 'great emu war'....and the Western Australian army lost.

[ReginaldBubbles]

giving pretentious minority groups control and power,

Any examples? Other than middle aged white dudes?

[Sibon]

I hate being the bearer of bad news but a world war is inevitable - and it's not a question of if but when.


And I guess there would be Comfort Women for the lonely soldiers.

And it could be the reason for people queuing to join the army.

[longlife]

Wonder if you would be able to finish up or go ahead with the bookings on arrival to those events. Shit go.

[Jabberwocky]

We've gone from one extreme to the other. From public floggings, stoning, flagellations, crucifixions, the gillotine, burning at the stake, torturing, mutilations etc to wrapping society in cotton wool, rewarding laziness and social loafers, giving pretentious minority groups control and power, misinformation and disinformation is promoted as gospel, and the advancing of social conditioning, PC and cancel cultures. Society is full of soft cocks with manginas and you only need to look at some members on this forum to realise that.

Society, its systems, laws, and norms is beyond repair. No matter what we do today, somebody will come up with a fucked up idea and make the situation even worse. Any decisions or changes made will take years and decades before the effects are felt! What we are seeing today is the effects of those fucked up ideas and decisions made decades ago.

A world war is what is needed, that should reset everything.

Yeah chief I am not sure about that... There are probably many more steps we can take before a world war is needed lol...

[Double_Adapter]

Yeah chief I am not sure about that... There are probably many more steps we can take before a world war is needed lol...

I hear yah, but good luck in telling the Russians that!
Same goes for the frogs, the poms, the yanks, the krouts, the roman's, the greeks, the persians and the list goes on. It's all fucked and that's why punting exists, to help men forget all the bad shit that is going on, even if it's for 30-60mins.

[Jabberwocky]

I hear yah, but good luck in telling the Russians that!
Same goes for the frogs, the poms, the yanks, the krouts, the roman's, the greeks, the persians and the list goes on. It's all fucked and that's why punting exists, to help men forget all the bad shit that is going on, even if it's for 30-60mins.

Haha, fair enough. Good food, good music, and good women. Indulge yourself before the inevitable collapse of civilisation.