MLs collectively going on a money-grubbing heist

[Ceath]

So i have been having a few bad experiences in ml world in the last couple of months. Mostly just MLs trying to overcharge and asking 100 for a nude hj, flat out refusing a 20 hj etc. Which in a few years past, would have been pretty shocking. But this has happened so many times in this year it feels like its some kind of collective cartel happening in ML Land. Anyone else feeling this?
I had a particularly shocking one just the other day where this ML Sky from top tyde 2 pope st does a very weak pt 1(understandable), asks me to turn over and asks if i want extras. I say yes to a HJ and she then proceeds to put on some gloves! She turns the lights off and does a half hearted tugging. When i try to touch her legs she yells dont touch me!
And when i communicate to her nicely that she should take her clothes off she says what for? So i say well if its just a hj like this you are doing then Im only paying 20. And she just flat out refuses. So i just walked. But this girl seems like just an extreme version of what i had been experiencing last couple pf months. Any other bros want to share their experience and views?

[JSteel96]

This is why I am avoiding ML shops they are getting worse and worse. If you want fs just go to a brothel. The extras in massage shops seem to add up lately and for poor experiences. Well no thanks I say boycott massage shops if you want extras and go for FS in brothel instead. Maybe ML experiencing the cost of living crisis so they are starting to raise their prices.

[GoldfishMan]

Wow, that's a terrible experience. Like paying money to take a slap to the face. What's the point?

[JSteel96]

Wow, that's a terrible experience. Like paying money to take a slap to the face. What's the point?

There is no point and there seems to be a number of ML shops now like this. Chatswood ML shops many have gone to the dogs lately with inexperienced MLs asking outrageous prices for extras that they can't even do properly.

[GoldfishMan]

Anyway, I think it's a sign of the times. They must be struggling financially to be resorting to these unsavoury methods to make that extra bit of money.

It makes me wonder if our treasured punting industry can actually survive in a pressure cooker place like Sydney. Very little spare cash in people's pockets to support it, I reckon.

[JSteel96]

I'm certainly feeling the pinch with the cost of everything up and starting to cut stuff out. I am sure other people are doing the same thing. I can no longer eat out and waste $100 on a meal for two. Petrol is crazy and there seems no end in site. At some point the cost of punting is going to go up again and massage places will follow. Couple that live close to me with a mortgage are working two jobs each day and night just to make payment. Its nuts.

[11Bravo]

But this has happened so many times in this year it feels like its some kind of collective cartel happening in ML Land. Anyone else feeling this?No.

When I first started, lucky enough to read this guide:
http://www.aus99forum.com/showthread.php?87640-Sydney-Massage-Shop-Guide&p=1637055&viewfull=1#post1637055
And I STILL use the prices specified there. I just figure any OTT price fits the category "it never hurts to ask". I'll counter with MY price (based on the above guide). If she says OK, fine; otherwise, it's massage only. It's a tradeoff for her - how much is her time worth vs having to put up with an unpleasant (no offense meant to anyone) job. Personally, for $20, I wouldn't think it was worth it and if so, gloves WOULD be indicated. Likewise, I could see where some providers wouldn't be too happy with just economy class, without upgrades to at least business. Just this week, there was one I'd have GLADLY paid for first class, but she said flying with her only had premium economy, part 2.5, nhj with b2b, no oral, for $80. HER airline and I agreed. MY standard is 1 pineapple for NHJ. If it's insufficient for her, then I'll fly cargo (massage only). And I've never flown cargo, minimum economy, without having any issues.

Bottom line: she makes the majority of her income from the extras, and for some jobs, just not enough. Just ask yourself, in your field, what is your minimum? Haven't you ever turned down a gig because the pay was insufficient for the hassle?

Times just might be hard too. I got 2 WeChat reminders this week from 2 different providers reminding me of the appointments, plus today, I got a message from the one I mentioned above, first met last week, who messaged, "Come on down... I'm at this shop today". And when I said I had plans, she also offered Sunday...

[frisson]

Mate I was talking about the recession a long time ago and people laughed at me

MLs earn more than many of us by a factor of 5-10, and they deserve it What they earn in one day, you earn in 5 days. But that doesn't mean that you let a ML drain every cent out of you

Negiotiate at the start. If the lady wants to shake your snake with her clothes on for $50, get dressed, walk out, go to your own bathroom, pull your snake out, and fully clothed you can get that done for free

I think it's called a clothed HJ. Can't imagine anything more dehumanising but guys pay for it

Your money was hard earned, so act that way

For my other tips read my recession threads

[HardCore]

I had a ML a couple of months back in suburbia, where after 35 mins of massage the offer was $80 for NHJ, that didn't work for me so I just said her I want to change to another girl, the ML was like sure, no problem. Walks out and sends in a replacement. I say to the new girl, the massage is done so it's just extras now, would you like $150 for FS and she said sure, so away we went for 20 mins at that stage. The girl that did the massage got 50% of what the shop pays for an hour to the girls and the replacement got the other 50% plus the tip. I suspect I know which one was happy and which one wasn't.

[Jack-Jack]

So i have been having a few bad experiences in ml world in the last couple of months. Mostly just MLs trying to overcharge and asking 100 for a nude hj, flat out refusing a 20 hj etc. Which in a few years past, would have been pretty shocking. But this has happened so many times in this year it feels like its some kind of collective cartel happening in ML Land. Anyone else feeling this?
I had a particularly shocking one just the other day where this ML Sky from top tyde 2 pope st does a very weak pt 1(understandable), asks me to turn over and asks if i want extras. I say yes to a HJ and she then proceeds to put on some gloves! She turns the lights off and does a half hearted tugging. When i try to touch her legs she yells dont touch me!
And when i communicate to her nicely that she should take her clothes off she says what for? So i say well if its just a hj like this you are doing then Im only paying 20. And she just flat out refuses. So i just walked. But this girl seems like just an extreme version of what i had been experiencing last couple pf months. Any other bros want to share their experience and views?

you are a 100% right! these days i dont really go to massage joints for fun as i find the quality is so so they are better joints for super young J girls and main thing is PRICE and the pineapples...

i havent had very good experience from the shopes at top ryde... got burnt once shortly after lockdown
photos looked amazing on we chat and asked mamasan confirmed she was pretty and early 20's went there and she was late 20's and face was so so not matching wechat at all and with Koreans my bar is higher cos they're generally more pretty and well kempt (nice hair smell nice and dress very fashionable)...

anyway in comes the girl she wasnt that pretty but i needed a massage anyway so went with it when it come time to turn around she whispered in my ear do you want extra - standard naked body slide 1 pineapple i thought about and said no and she kept pushing to the point i raised my voice and she rudely goes if you dont want part 2 why did u pick me .... so havent been back to the shop

but i feel like the prices you quote are non existent post covid.... i go here and there to the massage joints and the price range is as follows:
$70/75 for 60 mins massage pay to reception
inside room most girls offer extra with $50 for happy ending just tugging and naked massage/some sliding
$75-100 for naked sliding and CBJ (i dont like cbj unless they bring a condom as i have had some WLs use a plastic bag which felt really weird and the worst i had was this new J girl using cling wrap....)

some ridiculous crazy prices i got quoted have been massage $ paid to reception and inside the girl said
$50 to get naked and happy ending
extra $20 to touch boobs WTF i get no touching pussy or FIV or max borderline no kissing boobs but not even toughing boobs and pay extra i politely told her to F off
$50 +another 25 for booby and tit sliding where she puts on some oil (she had an awesome natural rack and hard nipples lol)
And another $75/100 for FS it basically worked out to be close to $300.... yes she was quite pretty and probs that price at a FS shop
BUt i didnt like the way she negotiated and kept asking for all this stuff and it doesnt even including daty or suck boobs or CIM or let alone BBBJ so paying $300 for standard service id rather go shop she wasnt all that pretty like 9 or 10/10

sorry i digressed and got too excited thinking back to the experiences hahaha but yea long story short the prices in bold and what was on offer seems to be the standard that i get

and i guess moral of the story is if u wanna stick to ML shops know the market prices and dont get sucked in....maybe they thought i looked innocent and gullible so try to low ball me sometimes you say thats all the cash i got or i normally only pay this this will gave and go to the standard pricing... also u know they wanna try pull something if she starts the massage with have u been here before LOL

and if u want FS better to go to a shop or venture out to higher premium massage joint with better quality girls and cbj or BBBJ and daty is including in the price which you pay direct to mamassan/papasan so no need to negotiate with the girl :cool2:

happened to me once when i didnt get bbbj and complained and got a discount as she told me that price is included it was too expensive for just a massage but i didnt want to force the girl to give it and chalked it down as she was new and didnt get proper instructions (it was her first day)

DM if u want more info or name of shops

[Jack-Jack]

This is why I am avoiding ML shops they are getting worse and worse. If you want fs just go to a brothel. The extras in massage shops seem to add up lately and for poor experiences. Well no thanks I say boycott massage shops if you want extras and go for FS in brothel instead. Maybe ML experiencing the cost of living crisis so they are starting to raise their prices.

hahahah yea and also them trying their luck to fish the most money out of u

massage is not bad if u were legit going there for muscle relief from a hot girl and 1 pineapple tip for some fondling of her naked and the tugging and catbath
sometimes they are an absolute stunner you wont find at a shop and they might offer FS after repeats.... YMMV but its always a gamble similar to shops where u book a girl blind i guess

[Jack-Jack]

I had a ML a couple of months back in suburbia, where after 35 mins of massage the offer was $80 for NHJ, that didn't work for me so I just said her I want to change to another girl, the ML was like sure, no problem. Walks out and sends in a replacement. I say to the new girl, the massage is done so it's just extras now, would you like $150 for FS and she said sure, so away we went for 20 mins at that stage. The girl that did the massage got 50% of what the shop pays for an hour to the girls and the replacement got the other 50% plus the tip. I suspect I know which one was happy and which one wasn't.

wow interesting and cool negotiation thats mad how that worked out honestly never tried to pull that one off ie change mid session

nice one who cares which girl is happy u got happy in the end hahahah

and actually $150 for FS is generous and more than fair price

[11Bravo]

...photos looked amazing on we chat and asked mamasan confirmed she was pretty and early 20's went there and she was late 20's
...
anyway in comes the girl she wasnt that pretty but i needed a massage anyway so went with it when it come time to turn around she whispered in my ear do you want extra - standard naked body slide 1 pineapple i thought about and said no and she kept pushing to the point i raised my voice and she rudely goes if you dont want part 2 why did u pick me .... so havent been back to the shopPromised early 20's and she was LATE 20's... The horror, the horror. Myself, I'm lucky to guess her DECADE...

A reminder: the girls make their coin on the extras, so yes, MOST will be IRKED if you don't opt for extras... she's wasting her time and potentially losing other customers... Like a lot of govt contracts: the initial bid is low because you're hoping for a lot of follow-on work where you can make some money... If there's no follow-on work, you've lost money.

[frisson]

Promised early 20's and she was LATE 20's... The horror, the horror. Myself, I'm lucky to guess her DECADE...

A reminder: the girls make their coin on the extras, so yes, MOST will be IRKED if you don't opt for extras... she's wasting her time and potentially losing other customers... Like a lot of govt contracts: the initial bid is low because you're hoping for a lot of follow-on work where you can make some money... If there's no follow-on work, you've lost money.

Well said.

IRKED in capital letters.

The older MLs are more polite and cop it if the punter doesn't want extras. However all MLs want money from extras

I won't forget seeing a ML late one afternoon, without a booking. As described by other punters, when she realised I had just come in for a massage, she screamed at me then ran out to the mamasan!

I didn't know at a massage shop ML can demand to give happy endings!

[Percy1]

If they get irked so be it. Its either come to a rational price where both parties are happy or otherwise you lose out

[11Bravo]

I didn't know at a massage shop ML can demand to give happy endings!LOL. 2 sides, SAME coin.

[bobothecow]

feel like the issue might be a lot of new girls coming in from overseas treating client like they would treat foreign client in there own country... had a horrible experience at barbie massage the other week, with the girl trying to charge a lot extra mid session to what was advertised on there site, only other time I've had that happen is in Thailand, but yeah, that shit messed up the mood and i left place pissed off and will never return.

[xapoya]

Well said.

IRKED in capital letters.

The older MLs are more polite and cop it of you don't want extras, but they want extras too however

I won't forget seeing a ML late one afternoon, without a booking. As described by other punters, when she realised I had just come in for a massage, she screamed at me then ran out to the mamasan!

I didn't know at a massage shop ML can demand to give happy endings!

Sometimes many older MLs will push you for part 3. They just want to make quick money.

[andrewv]

So i have been having a few bad experiences in ml world in the last couple of months. Mostly just MLs trying to overcharge and asking 100 for a nude hj, flat out refusing a 20 hj etc. Which in a few years past, would have been pretty shocking. But this has happened so many times in this year it feels like its some kind of collective cartel happening in ML Land. Anyone else feeling this?
I had a particularly shocking one just the other day where this ML Sky from top tyde 2 pope st does a very weak pt 1(understandable), asks me to turn over and asks if i want extras. I say yes to a HJ and she then proceeds to put on some gloves! She turns the lights off and does a half hearted tugging. When i try to touch her legs she yells dont touch me!
And when i communicate to her nicely that she should take her clothes off she says what for? So i say well if its just a hj like this you are doing then Im only paying 20. And she just flat out refuses. So i just walked. But this girl seems like just an extreme version of what i had been experiencing last couple pf months. Any other bros want to share their experience and views?

Wow!! I've never heard of any ML "put on some gloves" just to give a HJ. I would have simply stopped her and walked out.

I prefer places where the price includes NHJ as a standard fee, so there is no negotiations and discussions, and both parties know what is expected.
Brings back memories of Pure Massage in North Sydney, and Upmarket Bathhouse in Crows Nest. You simply pay and you simply get. None of that bullshit of bargaining.

[frisson]

I had a particularly shocking one just the other day where this ML Sky from top tyde 2 pope st does a very weak pt 1(understandable), asks me to turn over and asks if i want extras. I say yes to a HJ and she then proceeds to put on some gloves! She turns the lights off and does a half hearted tugging

It's obvious she uses this technique for punters. I bet a number of punters accept this as normal practice

THE USE OF GLOVES IS NOT NORMAL PRACTICE

Hey if I was an ML I would also be using gloves. But I also wouldn't be charging for such a dehumanizing experience. Sounds like what you would get at the doctor's just before a prostate check

The wonderful staff at my sexual health clinic also hold my penis in gloves. I would never pay a lady to do that, totally ruins the mood

[carmen farquis]

The girl probably had a cut on her hand

[Percy1]

The girl probably had a cut on her hand

Is this a serious thought

[massage addict]

Just don't pay the higher rates they are asking. It's 50 for bhj with a bit of light push rubbing. 100 for bbbj and 150 full service. If everyone sticks to this they will stop trying to get more.

[gco0307]

Promised early 20's and she was LATE 20's... The horror, the horror. Myself, I'm lucky to guess her DECADE...

A reminder: the girls make their coin on the extras, so yes, MOST will be IRKED if you don't opt for extras... she's wasting her time and potentially losing other customers... Like a lot of govt contracts: the initial bid is low because you're hoping for a lot of follow-on work where you can make some money... If there's no follow-on work, you've lost money.

Totally true.

Was chatting to one of the ML's earlier this year (have seen her a few times - enough to say g'day in the street) and we were talking about costs and things in general and she broke down the pricing this way. For 1 hour massage, the punter pays $90 and in her case, the shop took $55 of that leaving her with $35 so for her the extras were her money. Remember her saying that she works 5 days a week, and between 09:00 - 21:00 and at the time of the chat, things were quiet and she was saying that her shop take home was around $250 - $300 per day plus what she made from extras.

She has never been a pushy one for extras as I will always give a pineapple (occasional double it depends on how we go) but they do work hard for their money if they are to make it. Generally on their feet and those that can massage even reasonably have muscles have their own aches and what not.

I don't begrudge the girls getting what they can or asking for things but if a girl were to get upset and say things to me about it if I refused, I woudl walk happily but to date, when ladies have asked I have simply declined and had no issues

[Ceath]

lots of interesting comments from fellow brothers. ive been a bit busy with life just before new years trying to organise things. Had a look at the comments regarding my experience and wanted to provide a few more notes:
i do keep to the "golden standard of tips", ie. pineapple for nhj. but before when i started in punting there was also a pretty market price of 20 for clothed hj, NO GLOVES. part 3 ive had 100-150 throughout the years, seems to be pretty standard rates. 150 for the really hot ones id accept, otherwise my tactic is just to negotiate down to a lower service like nude hj. and bargaining with the girl and showing her you know your stuff is all well and good, and i have done it plenty of times, but with this industry sometimes the experience may suffer, and its not the greatest to try and hard bargain if you know what i mean.

the girl i mentioend was fine otherwise, if she didnt want to be touched or had certain prices w/e its fine, i think it particularly stuck out in my mind because of the gloves. And sure its up to the girl in principle, but it certainly feels demeaning. and i am perfectly healthy, get regular sti checks, did NOT have any open cuts or sores or anything, so that felt particularly offensive like some bros here saying, even if the girl didnt realise. and thats why i just straight away asking her about more details of whats gonig to happen, normally i like to keep this part a little more vague and loose. but yea her attitude was polite, she didnt try to pin me to the table or get angry at me for one:shout:, but the entire experience certainly felt like a peak of all the bad ml experience ive had in last few months.

[Ceath]

and yea i think for girls who are working they definitely want extras involved, and thats fine. and i always go in to these shops ready to pay extras, but sometimes with what some girls are asking for the prices, like extra 30 to touch breasts or 100 for nude hj, or gloves on for a hj:thirst:, i believe us brothers also have the option of saying no and even just walking.

[GoldfishMan]

No offence bro. I would've immediately gotten up from the table and made it clear I wasn't going through with it the moment she started putting on the gloves. To go to any shop and have to suffer through an unwanted experience is worse than making a donation. Punting is all about doing something you enjoy.

[c1teh9]

No offence bro. I would've immediately gotten up from the table and made it clear I wasn't going through with it the moment she started putting on the gloves. To go to any shop and have to suffer through an unwanted experience is worse than making a donation. Punting is all about doing something you enjoy.

100% agree with this

[frisson]

The girl probably had a cut on her hand

If a lady uses this reason to use plastic gloves on you, it's simple

Respectfully stand up

Show empathy that her injury may impact her work

Get dressed

Tell her about the standard treatment available at all chemists for cuts

Walk out

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/77900/solosite-wound-gel-tube-100g

[11Bravo]

I reread the OP's posts on this thread, and none ever mentioned IF price was agreed upon beforehand, nor was session time mentioned. Always best to agree on price and service beforehand just so there are no misunderstandings.

With all due respect, seriously, I took this as the girl sending a message that, at that price (or service), she wasn't interested... And like the OP did, I would just say "No thanks" and walk.

Yes, it could have been handled better by her. I recently had a massage, I asked about extras, and she said, straightforward, ONLY NHJ and B2B were available. Fine, her rights to decide what to deliver (and, BTW, I stayed, and she did deliver on what was on offer). It's BUSINESS, I don't take personal offense, and just vote with my feet, either one-n-done, or repeat.

[Ceath]

hey bro Bravo, like i said, i dont like to negotiate that clearly beforehand, takes some of the fun and mystique out of the experience. and lets face it, thats why we go to ML instead of WL. But like i said, for my part, im flexible with what level of extras, i can even accept a clothed hj, or, most often, a nhj for 50 and some girls will balk at taking off underwear or touching certain parts. and that is fine. I have accepted those situations with no problems in the past. but lately it just seems girls have become increasingly money hungry, with no care taken on service provided. this girl Sky with the gloves and yelling dont touch me(only put my hands on her leg) was just the pinnacle of this. funny thing is we had a decent time during pt 1 too, she was even laughing at a joke i cracked, so it just felt very off.

And to clarify for the last time, i did ask her what extras she offered, she was a bit vague or hesitant, so i just said hj? she agreed. now i am a regular at this place, so when she agreed i had assumed nude hj for 50(this is with ALL other girls at this shop, at most just a bit of difference in what body parts they let you touch etc), but then she whips out the gloves and puts them on, which honestly flabbergasted me and i was just lying there trying to figure out for a few mins what she means to do with them....and because we had a good mood going on just before i tried to make a bit of a joke out of it and clarify... to which she basically said this is going to cost 50 or its not worth it. and im just left going Whaaaa?:grimace:

[11Bravo]

..she agreed i had assumed nude hj for 50ASSUME - makes an ass of u and me

The only assumption I make is with a regular that the price is the same as the last time. Even then, where there is a monthS gap, I still ask for confirmation.

Same shop, different girls; independent contractors in an MP.

Honestly, if a girl starts putting on a glove, I'd be worried for a totally different reason - only my proctologist gets THAT access. I'd be like "Sorry, I DON'T need my oil checked nor my pump primed..." Like you, I'd just roll off the table with an "adios"...

I have a vague memory (maybe even a dream) of a girl using a baggie as a condom for oral, think I remembered reading about it, and was a bit WTF when it happened. I did let it ride just to see how it would play out, and, with that knowledge, I'd either pass on the CBJ or tell her I have 'doms... Way back when, I used to have some flavored 'doms for CBJ's, but not worth it these days. Actually, I'm impressed with the cheap doms the ML's use...

Maybe gloves is her thing, maybe some guys like the latex feel, lasting longer? Still, bottom line: I'd just think that she wasn't interested in MY business which I don't take any offense at because the last thing I want is to be in a room with a lady who doesn't want to be there... Feet don't fail me now.

And to get back to the original hypothesis: no, I haven't encountered any OTT pricing, but then, maybe we have different target groups.

[frisson]

hey bro Bravo, like i said, i dont like to negotiate that clearly beforehand, takes some of the fun and mystique out of the experience. and lets face it, thats why we go to ML instead of WL.
Surely the whole 'mystique thing' ended when prices went up in some shops. I go in as a cash in hand customer. I demand nothing and if nothing is on offer, I respectfully leave
But don't be naive and make the dumb mistake of the man recently charged in Sydney. He pushed his demands for services onto an ML. He was charged and convicted for sexual assault

The 'mystique' approach is great if you want to risk wasting 90% of the session facing the massage table lol. You leave many ML to their practiced routine, then you will often be left with a 5 minute dick-handshake at the end

Does anyone else agree on when to negotiate? When your pants are around your ankles?

Of course if you don't mind risking dud punts then go for it. You are just ignoring the collective wisdom during this high inflation period

[l337dude]

So i have been having a few bad experiences in ml world in the last couple of months. Mostly just MLs trying to overcharge and asking 100 for a nude hj

This is one of the reason I seldom goto MLs these days, too much BS and uncertainty with extras, my advice is always to do your research beforehand and negotiate at the start if you can. If I do go it's usually a girl who's been reviewed by multiple people.

I'm mostly after FS these days so usually I go to WLs, no headache of extras. Sure you get a larger selection of girls from all the massage shops but it's got too much uncertainty and unpredictability these days, there's never any guarantee, the girl may refuse a certain service or charge a higher than normal rate, of course you can always just walk if you are not happy with the negotiation (if you did it at the start of the session).

[frisson]

This is one of the reason I seldom goto MLs these days, too much BS and uncertainty with extras, my advice is always to do your research beforehand and negotiate at the start if you can. If I do go it's usually a girl who's been reviewed by multiple people.

I'm mostly after FS these days so usually I go to WLs, no headache of extras. Sure you get a larger selection of girls from all the massage shops but it's got too much uncertainty and unpredictability these days, there's never any guarantee, the girl may refuse a certain service or charge a higher than normal rate, of course you can always just walk if you are not happy with the negotiation (if you did it at the start of the session).

100%. But choosing a massage shop away from the CBD (lower rates) with good recruiting, improves the odds of success
Don't go to those suburban GILF shops. Have some self respect

Dress well. Be well groomed
Negiotiate politely at the start. Showing your cash speaks far louder than your voice does. The flash of $100-150 is always a fair business transaction, otherwise I walk. I'm in control of the transaction, as it's my hard earned money

Men being trapped by lust and spending way over the top amounts of money, are just repeating the same dumb mistake men have been making since time began

This is business first, pleasure soon to follow. So keep your head screwed on. If you do know the value of money

[MDPorto]

It's true.

MLs these days are trying it on.

I always book for 1 hour. I'm usually a Massage (Part 1) + B2B and HJ (Part 2) guy. Usually it's no more than an $80 tip for this service (although I get away with less for some of my regulars).

Two recent experiences I've tried in late December... MLs I've not seen before, both at Ryde based shops (2 Pope & 192 Blaxland - seems to be consistent with how this discussion thread began) - they tried asking for $100 for this service (no mention of CBJ to be included if I wanted it), and both times I said I only had $80 to which they accepted (9/10 they aren't going to say no).

First of all, Happy New Year to everyone !

Now that we are in a new year, and the economic situation very unstable both locally and globally, lets be clear on what are fair and reasonable maximum tips for this kind of service (the time for December bonuses is over):

Gloved HJ - ? WTF !!

Clothed HJ - $20 (I'm not sure who still goes for this kind of service but no doubt some still do)

Nude HJ - $50

Nude + B2B + HJ - $80

Nude + B2B + CBJ (HJ conclusion if you don't fancy blowing into the condom) - $100

Full Service - anywhere up to $150
* all inclusive - YMMV but I wouldn't be paying anymore than this for sex on a massage table in a small noisy room, no matter how hot the ML is or how well she performs
** when it comes to FS - if you are concerned about uncertainty on pricing, then perhaps you're best off just going straight to a dedicated FS brothel/parlour

...and my final thoughts on this, we seem to be expected to pay (in some instances way) more for goods and services these days but are receiving more substandard goods and services in return.

The industry, I feel, is in for a very rude shock in 2024 as punters really do start to tighten the belts. I know that most of us on this forum are unlikely to stray too far away from our current punting habits and routine but I feel some level of change will come for most of us i.e. if we've been going once a week for a RnT that might soon become only three times in a month or twice a week to only three times in a fortnight etc. Likewise, if we are driving or getting public transport to other areas of town to visit certain girls/shops, this habit is also going to change to save on associated costs i.e. fuel.

The amount of disposable income to support the industry is not the same as it was. MLs should be thankful for not only the customer walking through the door so they can receive a cut from the shop, but for any tips they receive no matter how much. They should not scrunch their noses up at us for seemingly being "tight-arses" with our money. If they're going to act that way, then pretty soon they won't have any customers walking through the shop door - as they just won't come due to a lack of good basic customer service.

[frisson]

Great post MDPorto
Where were you as I have been giving a monthly economic report about looking for VFM punting shops?

Recession times are here, and thank you for laying down the true market prices
As I said too, if you show the cash, many working women will lower their inflated expectations
Because most men have no idea what they are doing, and negiotiate with their pants around their ankles 90% into the punt. Lol

[frisson]

My barber recently charges $50 for a standard simple hair cut
It's getting harder to walk out because hair is an essential, and all barbers are now doing it

The essentials are definitely very expensive now

Massages shops are visits to spend leisure income, we will walk out if you try to inflate your prices

[11Bravo]

Nude HJ - $50
Nude + B2B + HJ - $80
Nude + B2B + CBJ (HJ conclusion if you don't fancy blowing into the condom) - $100
Full Service - anywhere up to $150 I agree with everything you say EXCEPT, maybe it's the pronunciation, you say "tip", I say "fee", as in "service fee". Like a restaurant (at least where I come from), you pay a defined charge for the meal, a tip for the waitress is optional. Obviously minor, but it can confuse some newbies. For me, a tip is optional, the amount optional. A fee for service is exactly that. Yes, the fee might be negotiated, but once agreed, it's no longer optional. And once established, on a return, is should be the same service fee, no need to negotiate.

[MDPorto]

Great post MDPorto
Where were you as I have been giving a monthly economic report about looking for VFM punting shops?

Recession times are here, and thank you for laying down the true market prices
As I said too, if you show the cash, many working women will lower their inflated expectations
Because most men have no idea what they are doing, and negiotiate with their pants around their ankles 90% into the punt. Lol

Thank you.

I've been ignoring the rest of the forum and only focusing on individual reviews of late. But given recent experiences I'll certainly be keeping eye on threads like this and contributing.

[MDPorto]

My barber recently charges $50 for a standard simple hair cut
It's getting harder to walk out because hair is an essential, and all barbers are now doing it

The essentials are definitely very expensive now

Massages shops are visits to spend leisure income, we will walk out if you try to inflate your prices

I get a hair cut and beard trim once per month from my barber shop, who charges $65 for this service. I'm 90% certain that this will go up upon my next visit. This shop has my loyalty though due to consistent service, including from each individual barber who works at the shop.

As much as it is an essential, the next barber down the road is available if standards drop. This is where RnT shops will become very vulnerable during these economic times. If girls aren't providing consistency in terms of service and the fees being requested, then I feel customers are going to really start voting with their feet.

[MDPorto]

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT, maybe it's the pronunciation, you say "tip", I say "fee", as in "service fee". Like a restaurant (at least where I come from), you pay a defined charge for the meal, a tip for the waitress is optional. Obviously minor, but it can confuse some newbies. For me, a tip is optional, the amount optional. A fee for service is exactly that. Yes, the fee might be negotiated, but once agreed, it's no longer optional. And once established, on a return, is should be the same service fee, no need to negotiate.

I agree. Definitely, it is a "service fee" rather than a "tip".

[11Bravo]

Great post MDPorto
Where were you as I have been giving a monthly economic report about looking for VFM punting shops?

Recession times are here, and thank you for laying down the true market prices
As I said too, if you show the cash, many working women will lower their inflated expectations
Because most men have no idea what they are doing, and negiotiate with their pants around their ankles 90% into the punt. LolI think it's also a function of where you eat, in which restaurants, and with which cuisine. You eat on main street, at Branded restaurants, the haute cuisine places, the prices will be higher. But get off main street, some lunch counter, or some of the Asian places, prices are cheaper. Maybe I've just been lucky, but when I've been asked if I am interested in extras, I say "yes", and ask what is on the menu, they provide their menu, I ask prices, and THEY have stuck to MDPorto's guidelines. If they were outside of those, I'd just say no thank you. A number will drop their prices; for those that don't, I'd pass. Several times of late, I've been slightly surprised when she quoted 2 pineapples for a full meal where I was expecting 3.

IMHO, highly dependent on what your targets are: SYT's, higher; MILF's lower. In my experience, they all have the same equipment, might be in slightly better shape with the SYT, but the MILF certainly knows the best use of what she has and is rarely complacent.


I feel customers are going to really start voting with their feet.I've always voted with my feet: walking away on bad service; walking back on good service.

[MDPorto]

When I first started going to RnT's over 20 years ago now, I was only going to dedicated RnT places i.e. Bodyrotic where it was mainly caucasian, girl next door types, who were trained by the parlour in the art of erotic massage. I had many great services at this place over the years, and prices in the early years weren't all that bad - $140 for an hour in a big room with a shower, with a very hot girl who had proper erotic massage skills (some of my most memorable sessions were better than any sex I've ever experienced with any ex-GF), on a leather massage table with two holes. Also, it was a very strict no extras policy. Again, YMMV and whatever floats ones boat.

Fast forward to today, their is discussion on other forums about how Bodyrotic has lifted their long time no extras policy, put an ATM machine on premises, no longer offering training or incentives to girls in order to learn the art of erotic massage, and have been infiltrated by (ex) full service girls and strippers who are looking to make big $ on extras. House Rate is $300 per hour, and I've heard of some absolute disasters in terms of extras being charged and men actually paying... I'm talking $250 for a CBJ, $100 for Spanish/TittyFuck, and everything else up to and including FS I don't even want to mention !!

I think it is really sad, because a place like Bodyrotic had a very unique niche which is now unlikely to ever return. Long time customers, like myself, have moved on and are unlikely to ever go back.

However, we must also acknowledge that the culture within the industry has changed and we also need to keep our expectations realistic. Don't get ripped off guys !! Always think with your big brain rather than the small one.

I also look at the current 'punting market' the same way I look at other adult male hobbies - cars and wrist watches are two good examples.

Prices have gone up during and since the COVID pandemic as a result of huge demand and limited supply.

Using wrist watches as an example, the best brands (Rolex, Patek Phillipe, Audamars Piquet, Vacheron Constantin) had sky rocketing demand just prior to and during the pandemic, while the less hyped brands (Tag, Breitling, IWC, JLC, etc) had to offer (sometimes significant) discounts to keep their stock moving. In the last 18-24+ months post the last lockdowns being lifted around the globe, the less hyped brands have decided to stop discounting along with raising their prices in line with inflation, implementing a similar business model to the best brands and trying to capitalise on the hype of the wrist watch hobby becoming popular.
Authorized Dealers also expect you to 'build a spend history' on less hyped stuff before you get offered the chance to buy a hyped watch (which you can sometimes sell on the secondary market for hefty profit if you wanted to), and the other brands know this (hence no more discounting).
The fact that people play these games with the ADs, in order to be offered the hype watches, has ruined the culture for those who want to collect watches across all brands and pay 'fair pricing' in the first place.
Sensible realistic expectation here is not to pay for watches out of an AD that you feel are overpriced.
(I do feel some of this may be out the window in 2024 though)

All the girls share the same 'waiting room' in a RnT shop. The less popular girls see the popular girls getting snapped up ahead of them by walk in punters, or getting booked up in advance over the phone.
The way the less popular girls (for the most part) combat the hype around popular girls is by attempting to extract as much extras as they can out of a vulnerable punter (quite possibly desperate punters who couldn't get to see their favourite popular girl when they wanted to).
Sensible realistic expectation here is not to pay for extras that you feel are overpriced and tell any girls who are pushy to shove it (in a respectful way off course - I think someone mentioned to say "I just got a message from work and need to go now).

If there is one thing that has certainly been on display since the times of the COVID pandemic - it's that a good majority of people in this world really do have more money than sense !

[frisson]

Shame the shops have NO business acumen in general and don't train women they employ

The suburb massage shop near me, the MLs tell me their boss actually trains them in legit massage!

But most human beings don't want to do a great job in anything, they just to the minimal. Only the rare thoughtful businessperson takes extra time to nuture repeat business which is the lifeblood of revenue.
In Sydney, this only happens in a handful of shops.
What a shame