Consistent hard working wl's deserve pay raises ^_^

[Gucci2012]

"I make my home where the fears of punters lay"

Main points:

Hard working wl's deserve pay increase

Things change eventually. Prices, Girls, Ideology.

No need to read rest of text below. My above statements are my mine points.

Some of our sisters in this industry deserve more $$$$ to separate themselves from the average WL.

All punters on this forum have had that one amazing girl who just gives and gives.

It seems that I'm the only punter in the history of this forum who had openly called for a price increase for his favorite WL and a short time after, it happened her price increased. Was it from my small campaign? Probably not, but it happened. Did I stop seeing her....nope. Because she was and still is worth it. Did her popularity slow. Nope shes still as popular as ever.

And I was 1 of only 2 who thought a price increase at our local supplier was valid to the dismay and anger of the many who wanted prices to stay the same.

Im different from your average punter, I'm ahead of my time.

(Everything before here is a statement big bro CunningL this is for you) Hmmmmmm let me give you an "analogy"

I'm like a sports manager who thinks athlete X(favorite WL) deserves more money than athlete Y(standard WL) because X can suck and f*ck 100 times better than Y. But the shareholders(regular punters) of X's team don't want to increase X's salary because they want their original contract(starting price) to stand even though X has surpassed their expectations and developed into a super athlete(WL).

Or may be I'm like a (WL)civil rights activists. Farm and Slave owners(regular punters) don't want change because they have become accustomed to the way things are....but nothing is forever.

There was a time when:

Woman couldn't vote

Black people couldn't vote

White and black people couldn't socialise

You could smoke in doors

10cents could buy a huge bag of lollies

Gay people didn't exist.

Things have changed. And hopefully peoples attitude to the idea of hardworking wl's getting more money.

Positive flo on effect:

Girls get more money

Other girls up their game to get same pay raise

Great girls return

Great girls bring in other great girls

Service among girls improves

Any other idea's?



Negative flo on effects:

Girl loses customer base

Company losses regular clients

Anything else negative?

[igloo]

I was 24th to read this thread when I read it the 1st time, now 33rd as I start... and 41st as I post the 1st reply.
In that time I have come to agree with the concept but have reservations about how most shops would handle a multi tiered price structure, but that is another topic.

The price rise theory comes down to market principles, simply the increasing price will be accepted until its not accepted. At that price inflection point she would have to either offer discounts (back to square 1) or include more services to remain competitive and fully booked. Before we can even get to that point.... think of the first ladies, call them Gucci's Gals, who increase their hourly price to reflect their superior service, looks and attitude...:
To start with she would have to be fully booked each shift with a substantial overflow, the overflow would take up the free positions vacated by those unable or unwilling to pay over the base rate. So to qualify the Gal has to be in demand...perfect only the best girls can put their prices up.
BUT
The larger the price increase, the fewer will be the pool of punters who will be in a position to be regulars, similarly the casual punter pool will also reduce. As Bro Gucci says, soon enough the other girls who are performing well enuff to get the big bucks will be coming thru to collect their share of the big dollar market... This just made the customer base smaller because at the new price there are basically the same number of Punters available to see 2 or 3 times as many ladies. It follows that shifts will no longer be fully booked out and at a certain point (number of shifts) the star performer will actually lose relative to what she was making before the price change.

Once this happens a few times, her income is not what it was, naturally she feels a little stressed and disheartened and her performance may be affected, now she is in real trouble, coz the others are just beginning to enjoy the higher rate and are at the top of their games. Maybe the higher prices will create a downward spiral for the girls who charge it, the spiral worsening as the flow of top girls gets stronger?

So while I personally agree with rewarding the great ones with tips and gifts and DATY, it could be troublesome to implement the idea as a sea-change.
While writing this it occurred to me that the great ones need the average ones around to make them great.

So if that is accurate why are there aging, botox filled, plastic faced,white trash getting 4450-$600+ AN HOUR? How many jobs a week can the Punterplanet chicks be getting each?

[Gucci2012]

I was 24th to read this thread when I read it the 1st time, now 33rd as I start... and 41st as I post the 1st reply.
In that time I have come to agree with the concept but have reservations about how most shops would handle a multi tiered price structure, but that is another topic.

The price rise theory comes down to market principles, simply the increasing price will be accepted until its not accepted. At that price inflection point she would have to either offer discounts (back to square 1) or include more services to remain competitive and fully booked. Before we can even get to that point.... think of the first ladies, call them Gucci's Gals, who increase their hourly price to reflect their superior service, looks and attitude...:
To start with she would have to be fully booked each shift with a substantial overflow, the overflow would take up the free positions vacated by those unable or unwilling to pay over the base rate. So to qualify the Gal has to be in demand...perfect only the best girls can put their prices up.
BUT
The larger the price increase, the fewer will be the pool of punters who will be in a position to be regulars, similarly the casual punter pool will also reduce. As Bro Gucci says, soon enough the other girls who are performing well enuff to get the big bucks will be coming thru to collect their share of the big dollar market... This just made the customer base smaller because at the new price there are basically the same number of Punters available to see 2 or 3 times as many ladies. It follows that shifts will no longer be fully booked out and at a certain point (number of shifts) the star performer will actually lose relative to what she was making before the price change.

Once this happens a few times, her income is not what it was, naturally she feels a little stressed and disheartened and her performance may be affected, now she is in real trouble, coz the others are just beginning to enjoy the higher rate and are at the top of their games. Maybe the higher prices will create a downward spiral for the girls who charge it, the spiral worsening as the flow of top girls gets stronger?

So while I personally agree with rewarding the great ones with tips and gifts and DATY, it could be troublesome to implement the idea as a sea-change.
While writing this it occurred to me that the great ones need the average ones around to make them great.

So if that is accurate why are there aging, botox filled, plastic faced,white trash getting 4450-$600+ AN HOUR? How many jobs a week can the Punterplanet chicks be getting each?

Multi tiered pricing in this industry has been around for ages. 5* MOC Bluemoon all have multi tiered pricing and they all operate fine.

They can charge those prices because no matter how many theories we make about market prices 9 out 10 men will disregard science and their financial circumstances and think with their penis rodman and go to north Korea and hang out with big boss Kimmy.

[CunningLinguist]

The bottom line for me is that the forum allows me to find value in the punting market. Ie. sort the good girls from the bad and get value for money. If you are suggesting price increases for good girls this makes it harder to find value and diminishes the usefulness of the forum. Why not leave the price setting to the professionals in the industry and focus your efforts on helping fellow punters find value instead.

[Licker]

In theory I agree on paying a higher price for better service. I just don’t agree on how the pricing model should or could be implemented, more on that later.
But first let’s look at the “analogies” you give.
They both are in principle flawed (and I suppose you know it, and thus the quotes on “analogy”). In both cases that you give the end consumer (where the money comes) is not actually paying the salary directly rather than paying for a product which has more attributes than the performance of the individual athlete of farm worker alone.


Hmmmmmm let me give you an "analogy"
I'm like a sports manager who thinks athlete X(favorite WL) deserves more money than athlete Y(standard WL) because X can suck and f*ck 100 times better than Y. But the shareholders(regular punters) of X's team don't want to increase X's salary because they want their original contract(starting price) to stand even though X has surpassed their expectations and developed into a super athlete(WL).

In the case of athletes the money comes from either
1. Spectators at the venue (buying not only tickets, but also beverages, food and fan material) and the ticket price is based on where they sit rather than the performance of an individual athlete (think footy), or in the case of individual athletes (like in tennis) the tickets for the tournament final are higher than for the preliminary rounds, but in that case the player really needs to perform well and get to the final to receive the higher pay.
2. Sponsors to the individual athletes, but in this case the sponsor is usually trying to sell for some other product like shoes, rackets…
3. Advertisers from TV commercials via the TV networks, in which case it yet again is more tied to interest to the sports itself or the team playing rather than the individual athlete
4. The list goes on…


Or may be I'm like a (WL)civil rights activists. Farm and Slave owners(regular punters) don't want change because they have become accustomed to the way things are....but nothing is forever.

In the case of farm workers the money comes from consumables like fruit, meat, milk, etc. and end consumers have no knowledge which worker picked most apples (and the salary of the worker is often tied to the amount of apples picked per day).

Please, let’s leave the slave trade out of this. It has nothing to do with pricing models of free enterprise.

You would have been better off by picking some other analogy that’s closer to the one to one service model, like chiropractor or a regular masseuse.

I agree with bro igloo in “rewarding the great ones with tips and gifts and DATY” and let’s add to the list, by becoming a regular which means a steady revenue stream for the lady.
And let’s not forget that the service often depends on how well you click with the lady (interaction is a two way street), if she likes your company, she’s likely to provide a better service, and in some cases it becomes more than just a service to her.


There was a time when:

As for your list of “There was a time when”, most are valid, but I would like to pick two that seem rather suspect to me.


10cents could buy a huge bag of lollies

At the time when a bag of lollies was 10 cents, your salary was lower as well. It’s called inflation.


Gay people didn't exist.

Can you specify a timeframe for me when Gay people didn’t exist?
I find it very hard to find any empirical or even historical references that would prove this statement.

[AHLUNGOR]

I think brother Licier got a few good points there!

Personally I am a great believer of you pay for what you get!

But in reality, this is not always the case. In case of FS, a $150/30 min fuck is not always better than a cheapie $90/30 min fuck but you would have a much higher expectations when you hand over $150 right ?

I guess in general, shops charging more should have better facilities, better quality of WLs and in turn provide better services, but we all know that this is not always the case, but if we take the few more popular shops in the forum such as 5 Star and Ginza, the chances of getting better girls and better services is on average better than other lesser Asian shops.

And I suppose the challenge and beauty of having a punting forum like this is to reveal and discover hidden gems in all those hundreds of shops where they don't charge you a 5 Star price but give you 5 Star services !!

The different or discrepancy in RnT shop is even greater!

I may be blowing my own trumpet here again but you guys would all know what I am about to say:

Just on part I, there are some seriously good MLs where you really are getting your money worth when you pay them $55/60 an hour for a strong massage - Coco, Lisa, Candy, Sherry to name just a few!

Or you could be getting a pretty ordinary nothing massage because all you really after is to turn over, pay another $50 to this slim young girl to get naked and jerk you off !!

Well then, as long as you are happy in the end!

So, to wrap up, yeah, paying a bit more for better services, why not.

But I guess what all the brothers really want here is to pay the minimum and get the most!

Like Sasa, Jojo and Mia ex 501 !!

Absolute legends !!

Cheers

[wilisno]

Or you could be getting a pretty ordinary nothing massage because all you really after is to turn over, pay another $50 to this slim young girl to get naked and jerk you off !!

Well then, as long as you are happy in the end!

Cheers
I will never be happy simply by turning over and get jerked off ! So pricing doesn't come into the equation in determining whether I want FS or RnT ! ;) ;) ;)

[wilisno]

In theory I agree on paying a higher price for better service. I just don’t agree on how the pricing model should or could be implemented, more on that later.
But first let’s look at the “analogies” you give.
They both are in principle flawed (and I suppose you know it, and thus the quotes on “analogy”). In both cases that you give the end consumer (where the money comes) is not actually paying the salary directly rather than paying for a product which has more attributes than the performance of the individual athlete of farm worker alone.



In the case of athletes the money comes from either
1. Spectators at the venue (buying not only tickets, but also beverages, food and fan material) and the ticket price is based on where they sit rather than the performance of an individual athlete (think footy), or in the case of individual athletes (like in tennis) the tickets for the tournament final are higher than for the preliminary rounds, but in that case the player really needs to perform well and get to the final to receive the higher pay.
2. Sponsors to the individual athletes, but in this case the sponsor is usually trying to sell for some other product like shoes, rackets…
3. Advertisers from TV commercials via the TV networks, in which case it yet again is more tied to interest to the sports itself or the team playing rather than the individual athlete
4. The list goes on…



In the case of farm workers the money comes from consumables like fruit, meat, milk, etc. and end consumers have no knowledge which worker picked most apples (and the salary of the worker is often tied to the amount of apples picked per day).

Please, let’s leave the slave trade out of this. It has nothing to do with pricing models of free enterprise.

You would have been better off by picking some other analogy that’s closer to the one to one service model, like chiropractor or a regular masseuse.

I agree with bro igloo in “rewarding the great ones with tips and gifts and DATY” and let’s add to the list, by becoming a regular which means a steady revenue stream for the lady.
And let’s not forget that the service often depends on how well you click with the lady (interaction is a two way street), if she likes your company, she’s likely to provide a better service, and in some cases it becomes more than just a service to her.



As for your list of “There was a time when”, most are valid, but I would like to pick two that seem rather suspect to me.



At the time when a bag of lollies was 10 cents, your salary was lower as well. It’s called inflation.



Can you specify a timeframe for me when Gay people didn’t exist?
I find it very hard to find any empirical or even historical references that would prove this statement.
Very powerful presentation there bro !

While I agree that good girls deserve to be rewarded, but it's up to the individuals to determine who's good. One girl might be consistently the best to one but not to another, so Igloo's suggestion is the most sensible way to reward good girls !

[Gucci2012]

In theory I agree on paying a higher price for better service. I just don’t agree on how the pricing model should or could be implemented, more on that later.
But first let’s look at the “analogies” you give.
They both are in principle flawed (and I suppose you know it, and thus the quotes on “analogy”). In both cases that you give the end consumer (where the money comes) is not actually paying the salary directly rather than paying for a product which has more attributes than the performance of the individual athlete of farm worker alone.



In the case of athletes the money comes from either
1. Spectators at the venue (buying not only tickets, but also beverages, food and fan material) and the ticket price is based on where they sit rather than the performance of an individual athlete (think footy), or in the case of individual athletes (like in tennis) the tickets for the tournament final are higher than for the preliminary rounds, but in that case the player really needs to perform well and get to the final to receive the higher pay.
2. Sponsors to the individual athletes, but in this case the sponsor is usually trying to sell for some other product like shoes, rackets…
3. Advertisers from TV commercials via the TV networks, in which case it yet again is more tied to interest to the sports itself or the team playing rather than the individual athlete
4. The list goes on…



In the case of farm workers the money comes from consumables like fruit, meat, milk, etc. and end consumers have no knowledge which worker picked most apples (and the salary of the worker is often tied to the amount of apples picked per day).

Please, let’s leave the slave trade out of this. It has nothing to do with pricing models of free enterprise.

You would have been better off by picking some other analogy that’s closer to the one to one service model, like chiropractor or a regular masseuse.

I agree with bro igloo in “rewarding the great ones with tips and gifts and DATY” and let’s add to the list, by becoming a regular which means a steady revenue stream for the lady.
And let’s not forget that the service often depends on how well you click with the lady (interaction is a two way street), if she likes your company, she’s likely to provide a better service, and in some cases it becomes more than just a service to her.



As for your list of “There was a time when”, most are valid, but I would like to pick two that seem rather suspect to me.



At the time when a bag of lollies was 10 cents, your salary was lower as well. It’s called inflation.



Can you specify a timeframe for me when Gay people didn’t exist?
I find it very hard to find any empirical or even historical references that would prove this statement.

That's fine you can make my analogies conform to any view that makes it more palatable for your mind to accept.

Spectators, sponsors, advertisers are all by products of shareholders putting money down first. Shareholders put money in to buy athletes, create a team, build a stadium. So me saying I'm a sports manager who says this athlete deserves more money than other athletes and shareholders(punters) disagreeing because they only want to pay original price....is a perfect analogy.

Leave slavery out of it....have you been living under a rock? The sex industry is filled with slaves, sex slaves. Girls get trafficked all around the world even here in Australia. Wake up to yourself. You may think the sex industry is all lollipops and candy drops but its not and you'd be lying to yourself if think slavery has nothing to do with the sex industry.

You had no idea about the relationship slavery had to the sex industry so Im guessing you have no idea how gay people were disregarded by society so let me school you. There was a time when...... being openly gay was not acceptable. So gay people hid their true desires and then people said gay people would bring about the end of the earth. So gay people in those times simply did not exsist. Homosexual tendacies were thought if as just phase some men go through and given enough time they grow out of it and become hetero again. Look at this country gay couples do not have the same rights as straight couples but this to shall pass as society becomes more acceptable of gay/lesbian couples.

But I'm glad you agree with my main point.

[Gucci2012]

Please, let’s leave the slave trade out of this. It has nothing to do with pricing models of free enterprise.



Wow! I just had to re read your post to see that you actually said that. There are those in this world that are not free to bargain the pricing models of anothers enterprise. Please acknowledge slaves in the sex industry do exsist.

[igloo]

Multi tiered pricing in this industry has been around for ages. 5* MOC Bluemoon all have multi tiered pricing and they all operate fine.

They can charge those prices because no matter how many theories we make about market prices 9 out 10 men will disregard science and their financial circumstances and think with their penis rodman and go to north Korea and hang out with big boss Kimmy.

Yes bro i have also let junior igloo dominate and shape my thinking, but only for the last 15-20 years, but when i sleep the original brain takes over and junior is quiet until just before i awaken.I
must admit when i said most shops i was imagining the 150-160/ hour locations not the premium shops u mentioned...I was thinking of Angie for example having 4 bros waiting and 2 girls available... i bet i would then see glue factory material going for enriched uranium prices... Some shops would go with the jetstar method and those last few seats would get price upgrades instantly.
Back to your original point which I think is really worthy of time and thought coz the girls u are talking about are genuinely worth more...

Using Cassie as the example, how was it possible or fair to her that she was getting the same hourly total as the duds that bro segal entertains us with? I agree that the forum is a great place to uncover gems and everyone likes value but Cassie's rate in hind site was a huge anomaly, the arb guys would have had a field day. I think she is still good value and I am yet to be with a 300-500 per hour girl who was both more skilled and better company than that doll... So really it's ip to the individual to reward, ( unlikely to occur every booking) but at least if she gets tipped $50, it's all hers.

Multi tier would work at some shops, your second home at bellvue st could use the 100 minus method: ladies are categorized by age in bands of 15 years and that age figure is subtracted from 100 to give u the rate for 30min:
85-100y/old = $15
70-85y/old. = $30
Etc all the
25-40y/old =$75
Obviously those > 100 y/old pay u.

[Licker]

Main points:
Hard working wl's deserve pay increase
Things change eventually. Prices, Girls, Ideology.
No need to read rest of text below.

It’s good to notice that we agree on couple of things.
Firstly, hardworking good WL’s deserve a good pay. We just have different opinions how that pay increase should be implemented.
Secondly, things change.
Thirdly, and I should have believed you on this. “No need to read rest of text below.”


That's fine you can make my analogies conform to any view that makes it more palatable for your mind to accept.
Spectators, sponsors, advertisers are all by products of shareholders putting money down first. Shareholders put money in to buy athletes, create a team, build a stadium. So me saying I'm a sports manager who says this athlete deserves more money than other athletes and shareholders(punters) disagreeing because they only want to pay original price....is a perfect analogy.

About your "perfect" sports analogy:

You are saying that the shareholders of a sports team and punters are in the same position when it comes to deciding the salary of the employee (athlete/WL).
No they are not!

Shareholders are in the same position as brothel owners; they are both re-sellers of a service. The pay raise to an athlete would be the same as the brothel increasing the WL’s cut of the hourly price. The end result from the business owners’ perspective being then the same, they both fill more seats/rooms.

Spectators would be in the same position as punters, they are paying a ticket price, which the business owner then distributes to the employees, based on their performance.

You were talking about a pay raise, not raise in the price of the entry ticket, which in both cases includes the cut for both the employer and the employee.

If we look at your analogy to a sports manager, that would then be closest to a pimp, who would try to get the girl signed to a more upscale brothel, where she would get a better salary (but let’s not go there as that’s illegal).

But I don’t really want to continue breaking down your sports “analogy” any further, as I think that the business models and services rendered are too far apart, that they could be successfully compared.


Leave slavery out of it....have you been living under a rock? The sex industry is filled with slaves, sex slaves. Girls get trafficked all around the world even here in Australia. Wake up to yourself. You may think the sex industry is all lollipops and candy drops but its not and you'd be lying to yourself if think slavery has nothing to do with the sex industry.

Firstly, I am totally aware of the existence of human trafficking and sex slaves, but what does that have to do with FREE enterprise?
When I say free enterprise, I mean business that is conducted within the bounds of law. Last time I checked both human trafficking and slavery were illegal in Australia (and the rest of the world as well).

When you are talking about a pay raise, I expect that you are talking about employees not slaves. Or do you think that someone working as a sex slave will see any of the money, if a brothel (or a pimp) raises the price the punters are paying for the service? Really?

I think that in the case of slavery, a little more drastic measures are needed than a pay raise. Something like calling the police.


Or may be I'm like a (WL)civil rights activists. Farm and Slave owners(regular punters) don't want change because they have become accustomed to the way things are....but nothing is forever.

You were also talking about “Farm and Slave owners” and saying that they are like regular punters.

Fellow punters on the forum, let’s have a vote.
How many of you think of yourself as a regular punter?
How many of you think of yourself as a slave owner? Hands up!!!

We already know what brother Gucci thinks, or maybe he distinguishes himself from the rest of us by categorizing himself as an ‘irregular punter’.

Even in those rare cases where sex slavery has been found and proven in Australia, most of the punters had no idea what the situation of the girls was.
And in the most recent court case where the mamasan was found guilty (about 2 months ago), the prices in that brothel were actually higher than in the closest ten other brothels.

So yet again I ask, how is slavery a good analogy for your ideology for a pay raise to a good hardworking WL? Slaves don’t typically get paid a salary.



You had no idea about the relationship slavery had to the sex industry so Im guessing you have no idea how gay people were disregarded by society so let me school you. There was a time when...... being openly gay was not acceptable. So gay people hid their true desires and then people said gay people would bring about the end of the earth. So gay people in those times simply did not exsist. Homosexual tendacies were thought if as just phase some men go through and given enough time they grow out of it and become hetero again. Look at this country gay couples do not have the same rights as straight couples but this to shall pass as society becomes more acceptable of gay/lesbian couples.

Interesting thoughts, and thank you for your offer to school me, but I think I’ll pass on the offer.

Did you know that hiding the fact that you are gay from other people, does not mean that you are not gay? – And to avoid further schooling, I don’t actually mean that you personally are gay.

You said:

Gay people didn't exist.
You should have said that gay people did not have same rights as hetero people, if that is what you really meant.

I could give a similar “analogy” for you.
During the night the Sun is “hiding” behind the Earth so that I can’t see it. Yet I won’t state that there are times (night time) when the Sun does not exist.



But I'm glad you agree with my main point.

That’s good, as we both just want what’s best for our favourite WL :)

Let’s leave contemplating on the analogies and concentrate on making her happy by giving her a pay raise.

Might I suggest that the next time you’re having a gay old time with your favourite WL, you give her a nice tip!


P.S. To avoid misleading any fellow bros who may not know this, I must point out that the word gay originally was just a synonym for happy or merry.
Its’ use for homosexuals is rather a recent development.

[Gucci2012]

It’s good to notice that we agree on couple of things.
Firstly, hardworking good WL’s deserve a good pay. We just have different opinions how that pay increase should be implemented.
Secondly, things change.
Thirdly, and I should have believed you on this. “No need to read rest of text below.”



About your "perfect" sports analogy:

You are saying that the shareholders of a sports team and punters are in the same position when it comes to deciding the salary of the employee (athlete/WL).
No they are not!

Shareholders are in the same position as brothel owners; they are both re-sellers of a service. The pay raise to an athlete would be the same as the brothel increasing the WL’s cut of the hourly price. The end result from the business owners’ perspective being then the same, they both fill more seats/rooms.

Spectators would be in the same position as punters, they are paying a ticket price, which the business owner then distributes to the employees, based on their performance.

You were talking about a pay raise, not raise in the price of the entry ticket, which in both cases includes the cut for both the employer and the employee.

If we look at your analogy to a sports manager, that would then be closest to a pimp, who would try to get the girl signed to a more upscale brothel, where she would get a better salary (but let’s not go there as that’s illegal).

But I don’t really want to continue breaking down your sports “analogy” any further, as I think that the business models and services rendered are too far apart, that they could be successfully compared.



Firstly, I am totally aware of the existence of human trafficking and sex slaves, but what does that have to do with FREE enterprise?
When I say free enterprise, I mean business that is conducted within the bounds of law. Last time I checked both human trafficking and slavery were illegal in Australia (and the rest of the world as well).

When you are talking about a pay raise, I expect that you are talking about employees not slaves. Or do you think that someone working as a sex slave will see any of the money, if a brothel (or a pimp) raises the price the punters are paying for the service? Really?

I think that in the case of slavery, a little more drastic measures are needed than a pay raise. Something like calling the police.



You were also talking about “Farm and Slave owners” and saying that they are like regular punters.

Fellow punters on the forum, let’s have a vote.
How many of you think of yourself as a regular punter?
How many of you think of yourself as a slave owner? Hands up!!!

We already know what brother Gucci thinks, or maybe he distinguishes himself from the rest of us by categorizing himself as an ‘irregular punter’.

Even in those rare cases where sex slavery has been found and proven in Australia, most of the punters had no idea what the situation of the girls was.
And in the most recent court case where the mamasan was found guilty (about 2 months ago), the prices in that brothel were actually higher than in the closest ten other brothels.

So yet again I ask, how is slavery a good analogy for your ideology for a pay raise to a good hardworking WL? Slaves don’t typically get paid a salary.




Interesting thoughts, and thank you for your offer to school me, but I think I’ll pass on the offer.

Did you know that hiding the fact that you are gay from other people, does not mean that you are not gay? – And to avoid further schooling, I don’t actually mean that you personally are gay.

You said:

You should have said that gay people did not have same rights as hetero people, if that is what you really meant.

I could give a similar “analogy” for you.
During the night the Sun is “hiding” behind the Earth so that I can’t see it. Yet I won’t state that there are times (night time) when the Sun does not exist.




That’s good, as we both just want what’s best for our favourite WL :)

Let’s leave contemplating on the analogies and concentrate on making her happy by giving her a pay raise.

Might I suggest that the next time you’re having a gay old time with your favourite WL, you give her a nice tip!


P.S. To avoid misleading any fellow bros who may not know this, I must point out that the word gay originally was just a synonym for happy or merry.
Its’ use for homosexuals is rather a recent development.

Oooo ok I see the problem, you've clearly missed the part where I separated my statement and analogies. Then you've taken my analogies as an actual statement or fact. That's my fault I'll make sure to pm you 1st about any analogies I wish to make in the future so you don't have to feel the need to act as analogy police.

[Gucci2012]

Yes bro i have also let junior igloo dominate and shape my thinking, but only for the last 15-20 years, but when i sleep the original brain takes over and junior is quiet until just before i awaken.I
must admit when i said most shops i was imagining the 150-160/ hour locations not the premium shops u mentioned...I was thinking of Angie for example having 4 bros waiting and 2 girls available... i bet i would then see glue factory material going for enriched uranium prices... Some shops would go with the jetstar method and those last few seats would get price upgrades instantly.
Back to your original point which I think is really worthy of time and thought coz the girls u are talking about are genuinely worth more...

Using Cassie as the example, how was it possible or fair to her that she was getting the same hourly total as the duds that bro segal entertains us with? I agree that the forum is a great place to uncover gems and everyone likes value but Cassie's rate in hind site was a huge anomaly, the arb guys would have had a field day. I think she is still good value and I am yet to be with a 300-500 per hour girl who was both more skilled and better company than that doll... So really it's ip to the individual to reward, ( unlikely to occur every booking) but at least if she gets tipped $50, it's all hers.

Multi tier would work at some shops, your second home at bellvue st could use the 100 minus method: ladies are categorized by age in bands of 15 years and that age figure is subtracted from 100 to give u the rate for 30min:
85-100y/old = $15
70-85y/old. = $30
Etc all the
25-40y/old =$75
Obviously those > 100 y/old pay u.

No bro my 2nd home is 647.

[wilisno]

P.S. To avoid misleading any fellow bros who may not know this, I must point out that the word gay originally was just a synonym for happy or merry.
Its’ use for homosexuals is rather a recent development.

Homosexuality is not a 20th Century invention, it's been around for thousands of years !!!

It's been talked about in the Roman era. And in China, the first classic literature depicting homosexuality 紅樓夢 was written a few hundred years ago !

[Licker]

Homosexuality is not a 20th Century invention, it's been around for thousands of years !!!

It's been talked about in the Roman era. And in China, the first classic literature depicting homosexuality 紅樓夢 was written a few hundred years ago !

I totally agree, The Bible also has plenty of references to homosexuality (from around 3000 years ago) and there are also references to it in Ancient Egyptian Literature.

I was talking about the English word 'gay' meaning a homosexual being a recent development, not homosexuality itself being recent development.


Gay is a term that primarily refers to a homosexual person or the trait of being homosexual.

The term was originally used to refer to feelings of being "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy".
The term's use as a reference to homosexuality may date as early as the late 19th century, but its use gradually increased in the 20th century.
In modern English, "gay" has come to be used as an adjective, and as a noun, referring to the people, especially to males, and the practices and cultures associated with homosexuality.

[wilisno]

I totally agree, The Bible also has plenty of references to homosexuality (from around 3000 years ago) and there are also references to it in Ancient Egyptian Literature.

I was talking about the English word 'gay' meaning a homosexual being a recent development, not homosexuality itself being recent development.

.
I was referring to Gucci's post :


You had no idea about the relationship slavery had to the sex industry so Im guessing you have no idea how gay people were disregarded by society so let me school you. There was a time when...... being openly gay was not acceptable. So gay people hid their true desires and then people said gay people would bring about the end of the earth. So gay people in those times simply did not exsist. Homosexual tendacies were thought if as just phase some men go through and given enough time they grow out of it and become hetero again. Look at this country gay couples do not have the same rights as straight couples but this to shall pass as society becomes more acceptable of gay/lesbian couples.

[Licker]

I was referring to Gucci's post :

Ok. For a moment there I thought you had misread my post :)

[benife]

Simple economics, supply and demand. If a Wl has high demand due to good service, her price will increase.

I'm not sure what this whole thread is about but I smell morality and ethics coming into play and forgive me but this is not reallu a plcace to do your whitekniting.

Cheers.

Just my 3 cents.

[the wizard]

I reward good service by tipping, gifting, coming back..

[mattemeiser]

My response isn't an attack on you at all I just wanted to make some rebuttal comments to the points that you made...



There was a time when:

Woman couldn't vote

It was the flow-on effect of their entitlement attitudes!!! Fuck it was the beginning of feminism!!! Who wants to see a white women WL???




White and black people couldn't socialise

In terms of America, they still don't generally. Yes it is greatly improved since when it was against the law but there's a term floating around called white flight where whites move to suburbs to be away from blacks. Also, there is GREAT tension between the white and black communities in the USA from the recent George Zimmerman (Jewish sounding hispanic) who shot Trayvon Martin (a young black youth). Blacks blamed whites in general and were targeting whites and Zimmerman was hispanic!!!.
Blacks tend to have a victim mentality, blaming all their problems on whites.



Gay people didn't exist.

They existed, but were hiding in the closet. The US military: don't ask, don't tell



Other girls up their game to get same pay raise

This is great in theory, but I think that if some girls see other girls charging higher amounts, then they will think: I work in the same shop, I should be charging the same amount also to customers. I wouldn't like to be the papasan who has to explain to a group of girls why one particular one gets a higher hourly rate or whatever.
This may already be occuring with the penthouses and such for 5 star etc.



Great girls return

I agree with you when great girls return its terrific. I just hope the reasons for them leaving don't reoccur; drop in punters.



Great girls bring in other great girls

I will respectfully disagree with this comment. I think that if girls have a good thing going for them, then they'd be more inclined to keep it to themselves. If they bring in their friends or other girls, these new girls become in a way, the girls competition. Competition for punters and they may even lose their regular clients! If the other girls give even better service or a fresh tight untapped vagina, then this may be a detriment to their ongoing success.



Service among girls improves

In a perfect world... You and I both hope for the same things!!!
I think that a number of current girls working in the industry need further training be it from customer service skills, fucking technique, etc
A majority of Korean girls would become rockstars if their service standards were increased. They currently have the best bodies of Asians (my opinion) with perky larger cup size breasts, white porcelain skin, legs to die for and ample asses.


But for the special WLs, then yes some of them DO generally deserve to be paid more. But like in everyday person's work lives, they either move up the ranks with their current employer or move to another company that pays the going rate for their quality and services.

[Gucci2012]

Homosexuality is not a 20th Century invention, it's been around for thousands of years !!!

It's been talked about in the Roman era. And in China, the first classic literature depicting homosexuality 紅樓夢 was written a few hundred years ago !

Everyone knows gays have been around since the begining of time, I'm saying men couldn't openly say they were gay in those times. And then someone has taken the words "Gays did not exsist" as a statement........

[Gucci2012]

My response isn't an attack on you at all I just wanted to make some rebuttal comments to the points that you made...


It was the flow-on effect of their entitlement attitudes!!! Fuck it was the beginning of feminism!!! Who wants to see a white women WL???



In terms of America, they still don't generally. Yes it is greatly improved since when it was against the law but there's a term floating around called white flight where whites move to suburbs to be away from blacks. Also, there is GREAT tension between the white and black communities in the USA from the recent George Zimmerman (Jewish sounding hispanic) who shot Trayvon Martin (a young black youth). Blacks blamed whites in general and were targeting whites and Zimmerman was hispanic!!!.
Blacks tend to have a victim mentality, blaming all their problems on whites.


They existed, but were hiding in the closet. The US military: don't ask, don't tell


This is great in theory, but I think that if some girls see other girls charging higher amounts, then they will think: I work in the same shop, I should be charging the same amount also to customers. I wouldn't like to be the papasan who has to explain to a group of girls why one particular one gets a higher hourly rate or whatever.
This may already be occuring with the penthouses and such for 5 star etc.


I agree with you when great girls return its terrific. I just hope the reasons for them leaving don't reoccur; drop in punters.


I will respectfully disagree with this comment. I think that if girls have a good thing going for them, then they'd be more inclined to keep it to themselves. If they bring in their friends or other girls, these new girls become in a way, the girls competition. Competition for punters and they may even lose their regular clients! If the other girls give even better service or a fresh tight untapped vagina, then this may be a detriment to their ongoing success.


In a perfect world... You and I both hope for the same things!!!
I think that a number of current girls working in the industry need further training be it from customer service skills, fucking technique, etc
A majority of Korean girls would become rockstars if their service standards were increased. They currently have the best bodies of Asians (my opinion) with perky larger cup size breasts, white porcelain skin, legs to die for and ample asses.


But for the special WLs, then yes some of them DO generally deserve to be paid more. But like in everyday person's work lives, they either move up the ranks with their current employer or move to another company that pays the going rate for their quality and services.

Great girls do bring in great girls. Bro have you heard of thus shop called Ginza, quite a few superstars have brought in other super stars. Cassie brought in Jessie, Jas brought in Silver.......

[HengDai]

Whilst we're at it lets implement a loyalty card program, Frequent Fucker Points for all to redeem at a later date for a class upgrade from Silver to Silver Premium to Gold to Golden Premium etc :)

[Licker]

Whilst we're at it lets implement a loyalty card program, Frequent Fucker Points for all to redeem at a later date for a class upgrade from Silver to Silver Premium to Gold to Golden Premium etc :)

Could I get that loyalty card with a credit function like with JBHifi and Harvey Norman?
"Go MasterCard - No interest, no repayments for 24 months"

[the wizard]

or like Miche'ls patisserie - fuck 8- then fuck one free......

[HengDai]

Actually come to think of it, I think Masstige 8 has some sort of points program, but I think it's pretty rubbish.

Anyway, back to Gucci's point. I don't agree. I do agree with tipping, gifting and rewarding her with return sessions that make her feel more comfortable though. I'm sure the girls would prefer this too rather than a flat out increase in price. It makes the interaction with WL and punter too transactional and I prefer the additional intimacy/rapport from little acts of kindness, surprises, small gifts, tips, etc.

[Licker]

Actually come to think of it, I think Masstige 8 has some sort of points program, but I think it's pretty rubbish.

Anyway, back to Gucci's point. I don't agree. I do agree with tipping, gifting and rewarding her with return sessions that make her feel more comfortable though. I'm sure the girls would prefer this too rather than a flat out increase in price. It makes the interaction with WL and punter too transactional and I prefer the additional intimacy/rapport from little acts of kindness, surprises, small gifts, tips, etc.

Well said. Spoken like a true gentleman, or punter take your pick :)

[Gucci2012]

Actually come to think of it, I think Masstige 8 has some sort of points program, but I think it's pretty rubbish.

Anyway, back to Gucci's point. I don't agree. I do agree with tipping, gifting and rewarding her with return sessions that make her feel more comfortable though. I'm sure the girls would prefer this too rather than a flat out increase in price. It makes the interaction with WL and punter too transactional and I prefer the additional intimacy/rapport from little acts of kindness, surprises, small gifts, tips, etc.

:-) interesting if my boss gave me the option of getting a pay raise or getting random tips and boxes of chocolates I'd probably choose the pay rise. Can someone get an opinion of a real WL?

[Licker]

:-) interesting if my boss gave me the option of getting a pay raise or getting random tips and boxes of chocolates I'd probably choose the pay rise. Can someone get an opinion of a real WL?

Do you have a job where you get paid per each individual customer you serve?
For you the pay raise would probably be to your monthly salary, and it would not be dependent on how many customers/bosses you suck every day.
Or is it?
Do you have a bonus plan?
I'm going totally blind here as I do not know what you do for work.

Take it easy Gucci bro, I'm just messing with you. Peace bro, you have an honest and good cause that you are asking about.
(setting aside the fact that these girls already make a fairly good salary)

Since you asked a question...

I've actually talked about this with couple WL's I know pretty well. They are pretty clever and way more pragmatic than you might expect.

They prefer the tip as the house does not take a cut from that.
Also they are concerned whether the flow of punters through the door would be the same at a higher price, since you cannot eliminate other brothels and girls selling at a lower price.
On a busy weekday it does not really matter, as there is enough punters to fill the slots, but on slower days it does. Every hour without a customer is an hour wasted (they have to be there anyway).
The shops know this too, that's why a fair amount of them have a lower price for daytime during the week.

They would of course have the option of moving to a brothel that has a higher price structure, but have you ever wondered, if they are as good as you say, why don't they?

A decent price (value for money) is what most punters are looking for. What that price is, of course depends on the punter and what he can afford.
And the girls know that the number of punters who can afford the higher price is limited.
The current price structure has evolved via free market economy, so that most are fairly happy with the situation.

If a punter has to spend 4 to 5 hours wage to have an hour with the girl, some are happy to do that once a week some once a month depending on their other expenses. (For those punters who earn about the same hourly rate as the girls it's not a big deal, but they are a minority).
If you raise the price by 25%, I bet you loose more than 25% of the customers.

Have you ever heard of price elasticity?
Most of the girls haven't, but they know this intuitively.

This however does not mean all WL's feel the same, but I bet those who get tips are the ones who are the "hardworking better ones".
And then there are also those who are willing to earn about the same amount, but do less work (fewer customer), but that increases the risk of getting to the same earnings.
Quite often at that point the girls go private, rather than working in a brothel, and they value the added free time as they may have other ambitions as well.

Have you asked this from a WL?

[Gucci2012]

Do you have a job where you get paid per each individual customer you serve?
For you the pay raise would probably be to your monthly salary, and it would not be dependent on how many customers/bosses you suck every day.
Or is it?
Do you have a bonus plan?
I'm going totally blind here as I do not know what you do for work.

Take it easy Gucci bro, I'm just messing with you. Peace bro, you have an honest and good cause that you are asking about.
(setting aside the fact that these girls already make a fairly good salary)

Since you asked a question...

I've actually talked about this with couple WL's I know pretty well. They are pretty clever and way more pragmatic than you might expect.

They prefer the tip as the house does not take a cut from that.
Also they are concerned whether the flow of punters through the door would be the same at a higher price, since you cannot eliminate other brothels and girls selling at a lower price.
On a busy weekday it does not really matter, as there is enough punters to fill the slots, but on slower days it does. Every hour without a customer is an hour wasted (they have to be there anyway).
The shops know this too, that's why a fair amount of them have a lower price for daytime during the week.

They would of course have the option of moving to a brothel that has a higher price structure, but have you ever wondered, if they are as good as you say, why don't they?

A decent price (value for money) is what most punters are looking for. What that price is, of course depends on the punter and what he can afford.
And the girls know that the number of punters who can afford the higher price is limited.
The current price structure has evolved via free market economy, so that most are fairly happy with the situation.

If a punter has to spend 4 to 5 hours wage to have an hour with the girl, some are happy to do that once a week some once a month depending on their other expenses. (For those punters who earn about the same hourly rate as the girls it's not a big deal, but they are a minority).
If you raise the price by 25%, I bet you loose more than 25% of the customers.

Have you ever heard of price elasticity?
Most of the girls haven't, but they know this intuitively.

This however does not mean all WL's feel the same, but I bet those who get tips are the ones who are the "hardworking better ones".
And then there are also those who are willing to earn about the same amount, but do less work (fewer customer), but that increases the risk of getting to the same earnings.
Quite often at that point the girls go private, rather than working in a brothel, and they value the added free time as they may have other ambitions as well.

Have you asked this from a WL?

Might be a bit tricky trying to explain your concept to most WL's.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident that not all wl's are created equal"

I don't really see girls that have the down time you talk about unless you count my random visits to 647. I only book girls that are known for good service. The kind of girls that are already booked hours in advance because hey are managed efficiently. But I think from now on in my future AR's I'll just ask the question "pay raise or tips and gifts?" and add it in as a survey question. Should be interesting to see the outcomes.

[paulgallen]

you've fought hard forGinza price rise. Now you are gonna go on another enterprise bargaining to bring an across the board pay rise ? You work for the AWU? lol

[Gucci2012]

you've fought hard forGinza price rise. Now you are gonna go on another enterprise bargaining to bring an across the board pay rise ? You work for the AWU? lol

Ahahaha read the title of the thread its for "consistent hard working wl's" not an across the aboard pay rise lol do you know any?

[AHLUNGOR]

Haha, very interesting opinions from so many brothers!

I know the title said WL but I don't go to FS that often so I thought I put in my two cents from a MS point of view:

To be fair, I think the consistent hard working MLs deserves a pay rise and they are usually very popular MLs !

Also, the basic difference between a FS shop and a MS is the extras!

In FS shop you pay a set price, and get the works , sure, there could still be extras involved if you want to pay for non standard inclusions such as CIM and anal but that's the exceptional.

In MS , almost every session involved some sort of extras: HJ only, nude HJ, CBJ, BBBJ , FS etc!

And the MLs gets to keep all the tips from the extras, the shop's cut is only just on the base massage fees. So consistently hard working MLs or those with better services and skills are usually better rewarded financially !

And don't get me wrong, the really top girls also get tips on top of the agreed extra too as they are that good!

No wonder I think there are actually more girls working in MS than in FS shops!

And some girls work some days in FS and some days in MS too.

Cheers

[AHLUNGOR]

Just one more point, where a WL ends up working has a lot to do with the circle the girl comes from or mixed with!

Say a young 23 yr old girl reasonably good look and a slim body, she is thinking about entering the industry, if one of her friends is working for an outcall agencies that's more than likely where she will end up and charging $300-$350 an hour.

Or her friend could be working for Brodie. Carlton , 64 or 533 and I won't be surprised that where she will end up! And you can have her for a lesser fees!

And for all of us RnT fans, you will hope that her friend is a ML rather than a WL !!

Just my two cents

Cheers

[hoshimoony]

But I think from now on in my future AR's I'll just ask the question "pay raise or tips and gifts?" and add it in as a survey question. Should be interesting to see the outcomes.

Umm... before you do that Gucci, I hope you can stop for a second and think about the impact of such a line in the AR on potential visits from someone reading it. You would probably think this is shallow and don't want someone like this to come and see them to begin with, but some people could be turned off altogether if they consider someone greedy and something like that can unintentionally create that effect. The last thing you want for these girls is reduced pool of potential clients right?

Also I hope you are going to get consent from the girls to have their answers published next to their name for the whole world to see because some girls would surely not want everyone to know their answer. I'm thinking that for example your favourite girl would not appreciate her views published online for everyone to see, and if you are truly thinking about the girls you would not do something like that to them. It might be interesting for you to see the outcomes but please think about the potential impact, both on the girls themselves and on those that are reading it when you publish them in a way that is not anonymous. Actually please ask the shop owner(s) beforehand if he/she is happy for you to publish something like that before you do it too because they could consider something like this to have some effect (possibly damaging) on their business(es).

Anyway just out of curiosity, does your argument run the other way too? i.e. those that are not consistently hard working, or those where their demand has peaked should deserve a pay cut for the whole world to see? Pay rises are easier to implement but it's not easy to reverse the effect when you want to because it could create the mentality (both amongst the potential clients and the girl herself) that the girl is not good enough and there would be repercussions down the road. At least if each individual punter think about the discrepancy between what the girls are paid vs what they think they deserve at the end of each session and pay the adjustment factor through tips, gifts, etc. they wouldn't create as big a negative effect on their mentality. It could even prompt the girl to work harder if they start to see a reduction in their tip revenue whereas a pay cut could cut their motivation to work altogether.

[the wizard]

Umm.. before you do that Gucci, I hope you can stop for a second and think about the impact of such a line in the AR on potential visits from someone reading it. You would probably think this is shallow and don't want someone like this to come and see them to begin with, but some people could be turned off altogether if they consider someone greedy and something like that can unintentionally create that effect. The last thing you want for these girls is reduced pool of potential clients right?

Also I hope you are going to get consent from the girls to have their answers published next to their name for the whole world to see because some girls would surely not want everyone to know their answer. I'm thinking that for example your favourite girl would not appreciate her views published online for everyone to see, and if you are truly thinking about the girls you would not do something like that to them. It might be interesting for you to see the outcomes but please think about the potential impact, both on the girls themselves and on those that are reading it when you publish them in a way that is not anonymous. Actually please ask the shop owner(s) beforehand if he/she is happy for you to publish something like that before you do it too because they could consider something like this to have some effect (possibly damaging) on their business(es).

Anyway just out of curiosity, does your argument run the other way too? i.e. those that are not consistently hard working, or those where their demand has peaked should deserve a pay cut for the whole world to see? Pay rises are easier to implement but it's not easy to reverse the effect when you want to because it could create the mentality (both amongst the potential clients and the girl herself) that the girl is not good enough and there would be repercussions down the road. At least if each individual punter think about the discrepancy between what the girls are paid vs what they think they deserve at the end of each session and pay the adjustment factor through tips, gifts, etc. they wouldn't create as big a negative effect on their mentality. It could even prompt the girl to work harder if they start to see a reduction in their tip revenue whereas a pay cut could cut their motivation to work altogether.
Hoshi your points make a lot of sense here.

I'm particularly concerned abour privacy issues for the girl if certain views are made public and as you say pontential damage to a reputation and subsequent bookings, not to mention same effect on the business itself.

I would hate to think what a cut in pay would do to a girls self esteem and wellbeing if such type of pricing structure was ever to be seriously implemented.

[Gucci2012]

Umm... before you do that Gucci, I hope you can stop for a second and think about the impact of such a line in the AR on potential visits from someone reading it. You would probably think this is shallow and don't want someone like this to come and see them to begin with, but some people could be turned off altogether if they consider someone greedy and something like that can unintentionally create that effect. The last thing you want for these girls is reduced pool of potential clients right?

Also I hope you are going to get consent from the girls to have their answers published next to their name for the whole world to see because some girls would surely not want everyone to know their answer. I'm thinking that for example your favourite girl would not appreciate her views published online for everyone to see, and if you are truly thinking about the girls you would not do something like that to them. It might be interesting for you to see the outcomes but please think about the potential impact, both on the girls themselves and on those that are reading it when you publish them in a way that is not anonymous. Actually please ask the shop owner(s) beforehand if he/she is happy for you to publish something like that before you do it too because they could consider something like this to have some effect (possibly damaging) on their business(es).

Anyway just out of curiosity, does your argument run the other way too? i.e. those that are not consistently hard working, or those where their demand has peaked should deserve a pay cut for the whole world to see? Pay rises are easier to implement but it's not easy to reverse the effect when you want to because it could create the mentality (both amongst the potential clients and the girl herself) that the girl is not good enough and there would be repercussions down the road. At least if each individual punter think about the discrepancy between what the girls are paid vs what they think they deserve at the end of each session and pay the adjustment factor through tips, gifts, etc. they wouldn't create as big a negative effect on their mentality. It could even prompt the girl to work harder if they start to see a reduction in their tip revenue whereas a pay cut could cut their motivation to work altogether.

I am truly curious by nature and I won't be satisfied by theories. Everyone here says girls prefer tips/ gifts over a pay rise. So I would like to prove them right by asking the source rather then read about it 2nd hand from 2nd hand sources.....I have no dealings with lazy girls.

[MaxPunter]

A pricing structure based on merit should be implemented in both ways up and down, otherwise it only creates a spiral that would eventually lead to a crash...sounds so terribly serious considering we are just talking about punting, but it is a basic concept of economy

On the other side a flat pricing structure without increases AND decreases is likely to lead to a standardised mediocre service, since there are no incentives to excel; of course tipping and gifting are a great way to provide these incentives.

Let's bring a practical example: C working at G; current hourly rate $240

PRICE INCREASE SCENARIO
C delivers outstanding service therefore G decides to increase the rate to $280 per hour; of this $40 increase, $20 goes to C and $20 goes to G

Assuming G entertains 8 clients during an average day she will get additional $160; if C looses only one of the potential clients of the day due to the price increase C will endup earning less than before:
$160(additional revenue from price increase)-$240(loss from lost customers)= -$80

TIPPING SCENARIO
C delivers outstanding service but the price remains steady at $240 per hour since G believes this price bracket allows C to be consistently booked throughout the shift

Assuming G entertains 8 clients during an average day and assuming 1 each 2 customers decides to reward the performance with a tip (e.g. $20) she will get additional $20*4=$80(net gain from tips);


Of course there are many assumptions depicted in these scenarios and many variable as well (service price, tips, number of customers, price increase, shift duration....) but i believe that even if yu reshuffle these variables the key points are:
1) WLs delivering outstanding services deserves a reward
2) The only reward that does not risk to change the status quo for both customer and WLs is tipping
3) Tipping allows both the customer and WL to be gratified; the customer is gratified by the outstanding service and "feels good" about rewarding the girl with a tip; the WL is gratified by being recognised as "special" deserving a tip
4) Tipping does not create inflation
5) Tipping does not reduces the potential pool of clients
6) Tipping is based on current merits delivered during the specific session rather than past merits that lead to a price increase
7) Tipping keeps the WL stimulated to excel in order to get rewarded

DISCLAIMER
C and G are just fictional acronyms, used for the sole purpose of presenting my view, as such there is absolutely no intentional references to Cassie and Ginza :p

[Punter Poontang]

I am truly curious by nature and I won't be satisfied by theories. Everyone here says girls prefer tips/ gifts over a pay rise. So I would like to prove them right by asking the source rather then read about it 2nd hand from 2nd hand sources.....I have no dealings with lazy girls.

But you've totally missed his point if you then post the results here without permission.

It would be somewhat hypocritical to be campaigning for higher prices in the best interests of the top girls, if not asking them and respecting their wishes about what gets posted here.

Case in point, I met a girl last week who is actually now uncomfortable with her own infamy as a direct result of one of your AR's. I didn't ask her, but would suspect that she'd happily forego a pay rise to avoid the number of guys who now front up expecting particular services from her.

Carry on with your noble cause, but maybe just bear that in mind.

[wilisno]

No wonder I think there are actually more girls working in MS than in FS shops!

And some girls work some days in FS and some days in MS too.

Cheers

Agree ! Most girls start off at the lower level of sexual services to overcome their psychological barrier. Once they realize it's not much different either way, the top girls and those who are confident about themselves will move to FS industry, because they realize where the money's from !

My ultimate favourite girl started as a ML, she said after a couple of months, her boss persuaded her to do nude and HJ for extra to regulars whom she felt comfortable with, after a further few months, the boss suggested her to go an extra mile to offer FS to the most trustworthy regulars, once she started, the rest was history !

[CunningLinguist]

A pricing structure based on merit should be implemented in both ways up and down, otherwise it only creates a spiral that would eventually lead to a crash...sounds so terribly serious considering we are just talking about punting, but it is a basic concept of economy

On the other side a flat pricing structure without increases AND decreases is likely to lead to a standardised mediocre service, since there are no incentives to excel; of course tipping and gifting are a great way to provide these incentives.

Let's bring a practical example: C working at G; current hourly rate $240

PRICE INCREASE SCENARIO
C delivers outstanding service therefore G decides to increase the rate to $280 per hour; of this $40 increase, $20 goes to C and $20 goes to G

Assuming G entertains 8 clients during an average day she will get additional $160; if C looses only one of the potential clients of the day due to the price increase C will endup earning less than before:
$160(additional revenue from price increase)-$280(loss from lost customers)= -$120

TIPPING SCENARIO
C delivers outstanding service but the price remains steady at $240 per hour since G believes this price bracket allows C to be consistently booked throughout the shift

Assuming G entertains 8 clients during an average day and assuming 1 each 2 customers decides to reward the performance with a tip (e.g. $20) she will get additional $20*4=$80(net gain from tips);


Of course there are many assumptions depicted in these scenarios and many variable as well (service price, tips, number of customers, price increase, shift duration....) but i believe that even if yu reshuffle these variables the key points are:
1) WLs delivering outstanding services deserves a reward
2) The only reward that does not risk to change the status quo for both customer and WLs is tipping
3) Tipping allows both the customer and WL to be gratified; the customer is gratified by the outstanding service and "feels good" about rewarding the girl with a tip; the WL is gratified by being recognised as "special" deserving a tip
4) Tipping does not create inflation
5) Tipping does not reduces the potential pool of clients
6) Tipping is based on current merits delivered during the specific session rather than past merits that lead to a price increase
7) Tipping keeps the WL stimulated to excel in order to get rewarded

DISCLAIMER
C and G are just fictional acronyms, used for the sole purpose of presenting my view, as such there is absolutely no intentional references to Cassie and Ginza :p

This looks like a well thought through analysis, sounds like tipping is the way to go!
Can DATY be thought of as tipping ...

[hoshimoony]

I am truly curious by nature and I won't be satisfied by theories. Everyone here says girls prefer tips/ gifts over a pay rise. So I would like to prove them right by asking the source rather then read about it 2nd hand from 2nd hand sources.....I have no dealings with lazy girls.

Gucci, you can satisfy your curiosity all you like but I'm just saying (as wizard and Poontang succinctly put) to PLEASE think about their privacy first and foremost... we can hide behind usernames but they don't have anywhere to hide. Think about it, if you (hypothetically) ask Cassie about her views on this, would you post it saying that her view is such and such, considering what you know about her views on having things published about her online and what it could do to her image? Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't think you will considering how Cassie is special to you. But does that mean though it's ok to publish the views of other girls without their consent? I don't think so.

Your satisfaction at proving people wrong may be important to you but please think about the possibility that you could be doing it at a cost of the girls in the process. There are other ways if you want to prove everyone wrong, for example why don't you think about setting up a shop yourself that has all your ideals implemented and see how that goes in the real market? If everything you say is correct it should be really profitable with lots of great girls each earning the amount of money they truly deserve and you won't regret it a single bit. You can then have all of us at your mercy, begging you to let us see all your girls for whatever price you put on them. Now you must agree that would be truly satisfying :D

Just don't involve existing shops as guinea pigs please, unless they're happy to be involved. In which case you should be discussing this with them behind closed doors, not out here in the open considering what it could do to their brand image. Seriously even though I have respects for what you do, I don't get what you're trying to achieve here. There may be some of us that support your ideals but there is no way you'll get a majority vote to get people wanting to pay more as a standard, that's just human nature.

As for particular girls, that's just up to the shop to decide if they deserve a pay rise, not us. They know more about how in demand particular girls are and the possible effects of price increases. If a girl feels differently, they can always go to a place where they are paid better.

[wilisno]

Gucci, you can satisfy your curiosity all you like but I'm just saying (as wizard and Poontang succinctly put) to PLEASE think about their privacy first and foremost... we can hide behind usernames but they don't have anywhere to hide. Think about it, if you (hypothetically) ask Cassie about her views on this, would you post it saying that her view is such and such, considering what you know about her views on having things published about her online and what it could do to her image? Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't think you will considering how Cassie is special to you. But does that mean though it's ok to publish the views of other girls without their consent? I don't think so.

Your satisfaction at proving people wrong may be important to you but please think about the possibility that you could be doing it at a cost of the girls in the process. There are other ways if you want to prove everyone wrong, for example why don't you think about setting up a shop yourself that has all your ideals implemented and see how that goes in the real market? If everything you say is correct it should be really profitable with lots of great girls each earning the amount of money they truly deserve and you won't regret it a single bit. You can then have all of us at your mercy, begging you to let us see all your girls for whatever price you put on them. Now you must agree that would be truly satisfying :D

Just don't involve existing shops as guinea pigs please, unless they're happy to be involved. In which case you should be discussing this with them behind closed doors, not out here in the open considering what it could do to their brand image. Seriously even though I have respects for what you do, I don't get what you're trying to achieve here. There may be some of us that support your ideals but there is no way you'll get a majority vote to get people wanting to pay more as a standard, that's just human nature.

As for particular girls, that's just up to the shop to decide if they deserve a pay rise, not us. They know more about how in demand particular girls are and the possible effects of price increases. If a girl feels differently, they can always go to a place where they are paid better.

Hahaha ! You're a man who also thinks with your head on your neck ! :miao:

[Gucci2012]

Gucci, you can satisfy your curiosity all you like but I'm just saying (as wizard and Poontang succinctly put) to PLEASE think about their privacy first and foremost... we can hide behind usernames but they don't have anywhere to hide. Think about it, if you (hypothetically) ask Cassie about her views on this, would you post it saying that her view is such and such, considering what you know about her views on having things published about her online and what it could do to her image? Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't think you will considering how Cassie is special to you. But does that mean though it's ok to publish the views of other girls without their consent? I don't think so.

Your satisfaction at proving people wrong may be important to you but please think about the possibility that you could be doing it at a cost of the girls in the process. There are other ways if you want to prove everyone wrong, for example why don't you think about setting up a shop yourself that has all your ideals implemented and see how that goes in the real market? If everything you say is correct it should be really profitable with lots of great girls each earning the amount of money they truly deserve and you won't regret it a single bit. You can then have all of us at your mercy, begging you to let us see all your girls for whatever price you put on them. Now you must agree that would be truly satisfying :D

Just don't involve existing shops as guinea pigs please, unless they're happy to be involved. In which case you should be discussing this with them behind closed doors, not out here in the open considering what it could do to their brand image. Seriously even though I have respects for what you do, I don't get what you're trying to achieve here. There may be some of us that support your ideals but there is no way you'll get a majority vote to get people wanting to pay more as a standard, that's just human nature.

As for particular girls, that's just up to the shop to decide if they deserve a pay rise, not us. They know more about how in demand particular girls are and the possible effects of price increases. If a girl feels differently, they can always go to a place where they are paid better.

That's unfair, I don't remember saying I want to prove anyone "wrong"

I did however say I'd prefer info from the source. My sincere apologies I didn't realise you speak for the girls and now you speak for the shops?

When my curiosity has been satisfied I will end this not before.

[hoshimoony]

That's unfair, I don't remember saying I want to prove anyone "wrong"

I did however say I'd prefer info from the source. My sincere apologies I didn't realise you speak for the girls and now you speak for the shops?

When my curiosity has been satisfied I will end this not before.


Oh right, you said you want to prove them "right". Sorry if that means anything different.

Gucci, I didn't say you can't get it straight from the source, I just asked you to respect the possibility that they might not want their views associated with their names out in the open, and you should discuss this with them first if that's what you're going to do. I'm not speaking for anyone in particular, I'm just saying please consider that this is all possible.

If your aim is to just satisfy your curiosity, you don't have to seriously put it out there for everyone to see once you ask the girls. You'll know what they think by just asking.

[Gucci2012]

Oh right, you said you want to prove them "right". Sorry if that means anything different.

Gucci, I didn't say you can't get it straight from the source, I just asked you to respect the possibility that they might not want their views associated with their names out in the open, and you should discuss this with them first if that's what you're going to do. I'm not speaking for anyone in particular, I'm just saying please consider that this is all possible.

If your aim is to just satisfy your curiosity, you don't have to seriously put it out there for everyone to see once you ask the girls. You'll know what they think by just asking.

People who "know" me know I like having a bit of fun. I'll promise I'll follow your instructions to a T.

[Punter Poontang]

My sincere apologies I didn't realise you speak for the girls

Oh, the hypocrisy ..... lololol

[Gucci2012]

Oh, the hypocrisy ..... lololol

1st I stated above and beyond girls deserve more money to separate from average girls, majority of replys say girls prefer tips and gifts? Now I wish to see if its true because I'd rather hear from the girls themselves then 2nd hand sources and report my findings as I have always done......where's the hypocrisy?

[Punter Poontang]

1st I stated above and beyond girls deserve more money to separate from average girls, majority of replys say girls prefer tips and gifts? Now I wish to see if its true because I'd rather hear from the girls themselves then 2nd hand sources and report my findings as I have always done......where's the hypocrisy?

You're doing exactly what you accuse Hoshi of, speaking on behalf of the girls, even if you are both just saying what you think is in their best interests.

Incidentally, I don't disagree with your point that better girls deserve better rewards, but you'll note this already happens at your favourite shop with all your favourite girls being in the top bracket. It's something that's clearly monitored well too, as girls are often "promoted" there when they deliver, and just recently one girl dropped two levels (not sure why, I like her a lot).

[Sextus]

just recently one girl dropped two levels

Hey wow, that sounds like a solid stockmarket philosophy " buy on the dips " :shout: Igloo would agree!

[Gucci2012]

You're doing exactly what you accuse Hoshi of, speaking on behalf of the girls, even if you are both just saying what you think is in their best interests.

Incidentally, I don't disagree with your point that better girls deserve better rewards, but you'll note this already happens at your favourite shop with all your favourite girls being in the top bracket. It's something that's clearly monitored well too, as girls are often "promoted" there when they deliver, and just recently one girl dropped two levels (not sure why, I like her a lot).

I didn't accuse him he's openly is speaking for a girl read his post.

[Punter Poontang]

I didn't accuse him he's openly is speaking for a girl read his post.

I've read every post (shame on me), and he used one girl as an example.

[HengDai]

So how bout the weather today? Bloody beautiful today in Sydney wasn't it :smile:

Move along guys. This is going nowhere.

[Gucci2012]

I've read every post (shame on me), and he used one girl as an example.

So.....my hypocrisy is where now? Because I just checked Google maps and I couldn't find it and since your the one that pointed it out and labeled me a hypocrite, I was just hoping you could point me in the right direction, is this way >>>? or that way ^^^? maybe its back that way <<<?

Don't worry just ignore this thread and what I'm doing and enjoy your life. I did warn you at the start of thread not to read on. Finding out wheather hard working girls prefer tips/gifts or a pay rise is such a dull topic which will satisfy none but I.....but until I'm satisfied I will not stop.

[HengDai]

Michael Jackson - Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yURRmWtbTbo)

[Gucci2012]

So how bout the weather today? Bloody beautiful today in Sydney wasn't it :smile:

Move along guys. This is going nowhere.

Agreed....it was a beautiful day

[igloo]

That's unfair, I don't remember saying I want to prove anyone "wrong"

I did however say I'd prefer info from the source. My sincere apologies I didn't realise you speak for the girls and now you speak for the shops?

When my curiosity has been satisfied I will end this not before.

What an interesting thread, we have learnt about:
Supply and demand almost including the cobweb theorem
Price elasticity
The minutia of correctly structuring and applying anecdotes
Wage accords
The difference between ML & FS
Privacy
Hypocrisy
Just to name a few....
The publishing of survey respondents individual reply seems to have hit some nerves.. Gucci seems to be able to hit more nerves than an epileptic neurosurgeon. Quite a skill
Unless there is a punting spree to beat all others I doubt the numbers would be statistically significant. What would be interesting is to find out who does tip for exceptional service... Just being a regular doesn't count in my book coz the regular is due to exceptional service not generosity or recognition.... We would hardly be regulars of a dud.
Maybe everyone would be happier if Gucci published an anonymous response saying total punting sessions and giving the breakdown between tips and payrise... I suspect most would answer pay rise and once that happened tips would be great.. Thinking back to my last 10 sessions I have had 2 duds 5 very satisfying sessions and 3 exceptional ones, 2 of which were with the same girl.... I only tipped 1 time... Maybe that's not as acknowledging as I out to be... Anyone else care to disclose ?

[Punter Poontang]

So.....my hypocrisy is where now? Because I just checked Google maps and I couldn't find it and since your the one that pointed it out and labeled me a hypocrite, I was just hoping you could point me in the right direction, is this way >>>? or that way ^^^? maybe its back that way <<<?


Since you asked, it's still all over this entire thread, you might find it if you read back to previous posts you conveniently dodged.




Don't worry just ignore this thread and what I'm doing and enjoy your life.

I will, you're clearly itching for a cyber-stoush and I can't be fucked humouring you any longer. Peace.

[igloo]

The commonly used acronym ( of late) is BTFD
How did u go with the implementation of your strategy?
And perhaps more importantly ( forgive me if I have missed them) are u recounting the recent gangbangathons anytime soon, my vicarious side is hoping to read about them.

[Sextus]

Yes igloo, but instead of the crazy in one day into the stockmarket and out the next idea, I realised that a longer view over months was better. So I am now in the equally mystical but less pressured realm of being a longer view chartist. And it has worked! So far, anyway.

Re the gangbangs, rule 7 of this forum is that you aren't allowed to post photos of wl's. That is why my photos were taken down last time. So I am working on an alternative strategy to satisfy your desires. In the meanwhile, if you were a silver member of the other forum, you'd be able to see the most spectacular gangbang review (or review in general) ever posted, 3,900 often comical words and 18 insanely clear photos of the mmmmf action.

Sorry to dump this into this thread, but it seems to have petered out into acrimony anyway, albeit after many a thoughtful contribution.

[Gucci2012]

Since you asked, it's still all over this entire thread, you might find it if you read back to previous posts you conveniently dodged.




I will, you're clearly itching for a cyber-stoush and I can't be fucked humouring you any longer. Peace.

So you call me out as a hypocrite without any specific reasoning????

I mean that's fine in certain situations, for example a WL told me that someone on this forum tried to force her to do bareback sex which upset me because I thought that actual punter was a top bloke but then I thought about his online persona.....a guy who is bored with vanilla sex? Well bareback sex would be the extreme opposite of vanilla. I called him out but then I realised I couldn't prove it because the girl involved didn't want to be named....

But this isn't 1 of those situations you can speak openly here, originally you said I was a hypocrite because I said our esteemed member was talking for a girl which he literally was so now my hypocrisy is moved? But where? Cyber stoush???.....hardly, its gentlemen having polite exchanges of ideas online.

[Travelmate]

Agree ! Most girls start off at the lower level of sexual services to overcome their psychological barrier. Once they realize it's not much different either way, the top girls and those who are confident about themselves will move to FS industry, because they realize where the money's from !

My ultimate favourite girl started as a ML, she said after a couple of months, her boss persuaded her to do nude and HJ for extra to regulars whom she felt comfortable with, after a further few months, the boss suggested her to go an extra mile to offer FS to the most trustworthy regulars, once she started, the rest was history !

This is the honest truth.
overcome their psychological barrier is the spirit thing to break through.

Pay increase and decrease ... most girls not that interested.
All they want to know is what is the bottom line they can make each day

[Gucci2012]

What an interesting thread, we have learnt about:
Supply and demand almost including the cobweb theorem
Price elasticity
The minutia of correctly structuring and applying anecdotes
Wage accords
The difference between ML & FS
Privacy
Hypocrisy
Just to name a few....
The publishing of survey respondents individual reply seems to have hit some nerves.. Gucci seems to be able to hit more nerves than an epileptic neurosurgeon. Quite a skill
Unless there is a punting spree to beat all others I doubt the numbers would be statistically significant. What would be interesting is to find out who does tip for exceptional service... Just being a regular doesn't count in my book coz the regular is due to exceptional service not generosity or recognition.... We would hardly be regulars of a dud.
Maybe everyone would be happier if Gucci published an anonymous response saying total punting sessions and giving the breakdown between tips and payrise... I suspect most would answer pay rise and once that happened tips would be great.. Thinking back to my last 10 sessions I have had 2 duds 5 very satisfying sessions and 3 exceptional ones, 2 of which were with the same girl.... I only tipped 1 time... Maybe that's not as acknowledging as I out to be... Anyone else care to disclose ?

Slavery
Racism
Woman's lib
Homosexuality
Business management
Athletes

To name a few more......
Quite a range of topics.

[igloo]

Not sure if their real sexual orientation but if either one is gay, Venus and Serena seem to be across all those topics

[Oneonone]

Cant see why you would be promoting more pay for wl? If they are any good they can choose where they work, who they work for and how much they charge I have seen charges of as little as $100 per hour up to $9000 per hour for full service?

Mind you the most I have paid for an hour is $420 and the service wasn't as good as I get at the $150 shops.

Lets face it most of us men can't earn a cut of $150 per hour which in most cases is $100 to the girl.

Makes the Kings Court Rates look like a rip of to both the customers and the girls but lets face it both the customers and the girls have a choice where they spend their money and in the girls case where they choose to earn it.

[Punter Poontang]

Only because you asked nicely ....



But this isn't 1 of those situations you can speak openly here, originally you said I was a hypocrite because I said our esteemed member was talking for a girl which he literally was so now my hypocrisy is moved? But where? Cyber stoush???.....hardly, its gentlemen having polite exchanges of ideas online.

It moved nowhere. It's still hypocritical to be going on a crusade in the interests of improving things for the girls when your actions on here have contributed in making shifts more difficult for them. It's also still hypocritical to have a pop at someone for "speaking of behalf of the girls and shops" when the entire premise of this thread is to do exactly the same.

That's just my opinion though, I've seen nothing here to warrant changing it, so if you disagree then so be it.

I'd also hardly call this thread a polite exchange of ideas. It's really just one guy shouting down all others who disagree, often going off on tangents and ignoring valid concerns raised in the process. That's not going to change either, so I'm done wasting my time with it. Enjoy all. :-)

[Gucci2012]

Only because you asked nicely ....



It moved nowhere. It's still hypocritical to be going on a crusade in the interests of improving things for the girls when your actions on here have contributed in making shifts more difficult for them. It's also still hypocritical to have a pop at someone for "speaking of behalf of the girls and shops" when the entire premise of this thread is to do exactly the same.

That's just my opinion though, I've seen nothing here to warrant changing it, so if you disagree then so be it.

I'd also hardly call this thread a polite exchange of ideas. It's really just one guy shouting down all others who disagree, often going off on tangents and ignoring valid concerns raised in the process. That's not going to change either, so I'm done wasting my time with it. Enjoy all. :-)

So now this thread has "contributed to making it harder for girls to get shifts"??? Right....you know this how? Did you do a survey like me?

I want real answers not theories or speculation. And I'm a hypocrite because you didn't read the a post correctly?

You said you were done on your last post....but here we are....if I was shouting down on others I would be using CAPITAL LETTERS and end it with a !

[mista]

Only because you asked nicely ....



It moved nowhere. It's still hypocritical to be going on a crusade in the interests of improving things for the girls when your actions on here have contributed in making shifts more difficult for them. It's also still hypocritical to have a pop at someone for "speaking of behalf of the girls and shops" when the entire premise of this thread is to do exactly the same.

That's just my opinion though, I've seen nothing here to warrant changing it, so if you disagree then so be it.

I'd also hardly call this thread a polite exchange of ideas. It's really just one guy shouting down all others who disagree, often going off on tangents and ignoring valid concerns raised in the process. That's not going to change either, so I'm done wasting my time with it. Enjoy all. :-)

That's the best reply to this joke of a thread.
My advice to you guys would be never argue with an idiot, They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~ George Carlin

And the winner is Gucci2012

[Punter Poontang]

So now this thread has "contributed to making it harder for girls to get shifts"???

No, that's not what I said at all. You're the one who is failing at comprehension here, and quite badly. :-)

[MaxPunter]

A pricing structure based on merit should be implemented in both ways up and down, otherwise it only creates a spiral that would eventually lead to a crash...sounds so terribly serious considering we are just talking about punting, but it is a basic concept of economy

On the other side a flat pricing structure without increases AND decreases is likely to lead to a standardised mediocre service, since there are no incentives to excel; of course tipping and gifting are a great way to provide these incentives.

Let's bring a practical example: C working at G; current hourly rate $240

PRICE INCREASE SCENARIO
C delivers outstanding service therefore G decides to increase the rate to $280 per hour; of this $40 increase, $20 goes to C and $20 goes to G

Assuming G entertains 8 clients during an average day she will get additional $160; if C looses only one of the potential clients of the day due to the price increase C will endup earning less than before:
$160(additional revenue from price increase)-$240(loss from lost customers)= -$80

TIPPING SCENARIO
C delivers outstanding service but the price remains steady at $240 per hour since G believes this price bracket allows C to be consistently booked throughout the shift

Assuming G entertains 8 clients during an average day and assuming 1 each 2 customers decides to reward the performance with a tip (e.g. $20) she will get additional $20*4=$80(net gain from tips);


Of course there are many assumptions depicted in these scenarios and many variable as well (service price, tips, number of customers, price increase, shift duration....) but i believe that even if yu reshuffle these variables the key points are:
1) WLs delivering outstanding services deserves a reward
2) The only reward that does not risk to change the status quo for both customer and WLs is tipping
3) Tipping allows both the customer and WL to be gratified; the customer is gratified by the outstanding service and "feels good" about rewarding the girl with a tip; the WL is gratified by being recognised as "special" deserving a tip
4) Tipping does not create inflation
5) Tipping does not reduces the potential pool of clients
6) Tipping is based on current merits delivered during the specific session rather than past merits that lead to a price increase
7) Tipping keeps the WL stimulated to excel in order to get rewarded

DISCLAIMER
C and G are just fictional acronyms, used for the sole purpose of presenting my view, as such there is absolutely no intentional references to Cassie and Ginza :p

I see the points i have raised have been disregarded, maybe have not been presented sufficiently well or are not convincing; as such i ll make an effort to raise one additional point:

The assumption that a pay raise should be totally financed by the customer(the punter) is extremely unfair; if the worker(the WL) is providing exceptional service the pay rise can be financed by the service provider(the shop), this can be done without affecting the customer by simply raising the WL's cut (e.g from 50% to 60%)
Why would the shop wear the increase?
Because the exceptional service provided by the WL increase awareness of the shop and ultimately brings new customers in

Let's use an ANALOGY:
If Cristiano Ronaldo outperforms for Real Madrid, the club will award him a bonus and possibly a pay rise; should the club increase the price of the tickets in order to finance the increase?
NO! It is not needed, since Cristiano Ronaldo is promoting the image of the club in the world bringing in additional revenues thanks to new supporters acquired by the team

Cristiano Ronaldo is happy because is earning more money, supporters are happy because can continue to enjoy CR under the same conditions, club is happy since the extraordinary performances are producing additional revenues.

CONCLUSIONS
If we want to campaign for rate increase on our favourite WLs, i would suggest to ask the shop to reduce their cut...:shout:

[AHLUNGOR]

I see the points i have raised have been disregarded, maybe have not been presented sufficiently well or are not convincing; as such i ll make an effort to raise one additional point:

The assumption that a pay raise should be totally financed by the customer(the punter) is extremely unfair; if the worker(the WL) is providing exceptional service the pay rise can be financed by the service provider(the shop), this can be done without affecting the customer by simply raising the WL's cut (e.g from 50% to 60%)
Why would the shop wear the increase?
Because the exceptional service provided by the WL increase awareness of the shop and ultimately brings new customers in

Let's use an ANALOGY:
If Cristiano Ronaldo outperforms for Real Madrid, the club will award him with bonus and possibly a pay rise; should the club increase the price of the tickets in order to finance the increase?
NO! It is not needed, since Cristiano Ronaldo is promoting the image of the club in the world bringing in additional revenues thanks to new supporters cheering for him

Cristiano Ronaldo is happy because is earning more money, supporters are happy because can continue to enjoy CR under the same conditions, club is happy since the extraordinary performances are producing additional revenues.

CONCLUSIONS
If we want to campaign for rate increase on our favourite WLs, i would suggest to ask the shop to reduce their cut...:shout:

I think when you look at Ginza, they are already running something similar, the silver class, gold class, premium class and then you have the outcall agencies who have regular girls and brand girls and then those minimum two hours, which effectively have put a premium on the girls value - like a pay rise or higher pay grade.

Which again, had worked very effectively in the good old days of No.1 :

this is Annie from Singapore $150

this is Bobo from China $140

this is May from Thailand $130........

You see the points??

Cheers

[MaxPunter]

I think when you look at Ginza, they are already running something similar, the silver class, gold class, premium class and then you have the outcall agencies who have regular girls and brand girls and then those minimum two hours, which effectively have put a premium on the girls value - like a pay rise or higher pay grade.

You see the points??

Cheers
I do...this is what i am trying to convey with my posts
The shops have several mechanisms to award the outperformers, we simply look at the final price and assume all girls get the same money, that's wrong
Better girls get more money, otherwise they would leave for another shop

[Gucci2012]

That's the best reply to this joke of a thread.
My advice to you guys would be never argue with an idiot, They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~ George Carlin

And the winner is Gucci2012

Thank you, do I get a trophy now.

[Gucci2012]

CONCLUSIONS
If we want to campaign for rate increase on our favourite WLs, i would suggest to ask the shop to reduce their cut...:shout:

My favorite already got a pay raise..... how do I find out if these top girls prefer tips/gifts over a pay rise?

[mista]

Thank you, do I get a trophy now.

You have too many already!

[Gucci2012]

You have too many already!

Ok....how about an ice cream? Cookies an cream flavor.

[MaxPunter]

My favorite already got a pay raise...

The increase received by your favourite WL was a collateral of an higher hourly rate charged by the provider, as such the main gainer was the provider itself and possibly the WL(assuming her number of bookings and her tips/gifts did not decrease as a consequenceof the increase itself).
The "looser" in this scenario is the punter who is paying an higher price for the same lady and the same services
The true achievement (for our community of punters of course) would have been convincing the shop to increase the cut of the WL and keep the price the same


.... how do I find out if these top girls prefer tips/gifts over a pay rise?

If you ask the question as: "Do you prefer tips or a pay rise?" the answers are obvious: PAY RISE, since it would be a predictable and stable increase
You should also tell them that the pay rise will be financed by the customers by paying an higher price for their services, and this would:
1) Potentially reduce the pool of customers for the WL
2) Raise the expectations of the customers (higher rate-->higher expectations)
3) Likely to reduce the tips/gifts; if the customer is already paying a top/higher price is less prone to tipping

If the question is presented under these terms i would be very curious as well to know what the WLs think about it

You can run your survey without disclosing the name of the girls.
Honestly i do not believe that knowing that WL XXX prefers tips over a rate increase or viceversa, would in any way damage the girl; has your boss ever asked you if you prefer a guaranteed 5% increase of your salary or a big bonus if you outperform? I don't see anything wrong about asking and about providing an honest answer.

But do you agree that the pay increase should be financed by the shop rather than by the punter?

[mista]

Let him pay more!
Tips are tax free and the shop doesn't take a cut. Of course anyone you ask would say yes give me a pay rise!
It's human nature to want to get paid more for doing less.
You can twist all the analogy you want.
Be a man, accept when you are WRONG!

[Gucci2012]

Let him pay more!
Tips are tax free and the shop doesn't take a cut. Of course anyone you ask would say yes give me a pay rise!
It's human nature to want to get paid more for doing less.
You can twist all the analogy you want.
Be a man, accept when you are WRONG!

So first everyone says girls prefer tips and now the concensus is that they prefer a pay rise. Confused I am.

Oh welcome to the forum buddy.

[igloo]

Today is a great day for the forum... Mista Beta is here and has spoken. All 4 of your posts are in this 1 thread, yet u seem to communicate like a forum regular.. any other user names?

What is he wrong about?
1)Consistently hard working wl's deserve more money?
2)the hourly rate should increase
3) punters should reward by giving tips, gifts and DATY (consensus view on how WL's should receive their pay rise, as opposed to hourly increase)


Let him pay more!
Tips are tax free and the shop doesn't take a cut. Of course anyone you ask would say yes give me a pay rise!
It's human nature to want to get paid more for doing less.
You can twist all the analogy you want.
Be a man, accept when you are WRONG!



That's the best reply to this joke of a thread.
My advice to you guys would be never argue with an idiot, They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~ George Carlin

And the winner is Gucci2012

[CunningLinguist]

I wonder what the shop owners think about this thread ..
I reckon they might be laughing, running a real shop in real life would be an eye opener for all of us I suspect.
When your livelihood depends on it and there is a free market things usually sort themselves out.
I reckon we should leave it to the professionals to decide how they run their business, and we should stick to being customers, after all that is what we do best :)

[Gucci2012]

The increase received by your favourite WL was a collateral of an higher hourly rate charged by the provider, as such the main gainer was the provider itself and possibly the WL(assuming her number of bookings and her tips/gifts did not decrease as a consequenceof the increase itself).
The "looser" in this scenario is the punter who is paying an higher price for the same lady and the same services
The true achievement (for our community of punters of course) would have been convincing the shop to increase the cut of the WL and keep the price the same



If you ask the question as: "Do you prefer tips or a pay rise?" the answers are obvious: PAY RISE, since it would be a predictable and stable increase
You should also tell them that the pay rise will be financed by the customers by paying an higher price for their services, and this would:
1) Potentially reduce the pool of customers for the WL
2) Raise the expectations of the customers (higher rate-->higher expectations)
3) Likely to reduce the tips/gifts; if the customer is already paying a top/higher price is less prone to tipping

If the question is presented under these terms i would be very curious as well to know what the WLs think about it

You can run your survey without disclosing the name of the girls.
Honestly i do not believe that knowing that WL XXX prefers tips over a rate increase or viceversa, would in any way damage the girl; has your boss ever asked you if you prefer a guaranteed 5% increase of your salary or a big bonus if you outperform? I don't see anything wrong about asking and about providing an honest answer.

But do you agree that the pay increase should be financed by the shop rather than by the punter?

I get both, annual minimum 5% increase and 20% maximum paid as a cash bonus of my annual salary pending on previous financial years performance. I've already had my review, I did pretty well and met most of my kpi's.

Shop or punter???? 1 question at a time please. When I get a definite answer to my 1st query then we can work on your question. But without thinking about it to much....punter should pay.

[Gucci2012]

I wonder what the shop owners think about this thread ..
I reckon they might be laughing, running a real shop in real life would be an eye opener for all of us I suspect.
When your livelihood depends on it and there is a free market things usually sort themselves out.
I reckon we should leave it to the professionals to decide how they run their business, and we should stick to being customers, after all that is what we do best :)

I love being a customer. I hope shop owners are laughing at this thread because my next general talk thread will have every punter on this forum laughing.

[mista]

Today is a great day for the forum... Mista Beta is here and has spoken. All 4 of your posts are in this 1 thread, yet u seem to communicate like a forum regular.. any other user names?

What is he wrong about?
1)Consistently hard working wl's deserve more money?
2)the hourly rate should increase
3) punters should reward by giving tips, gifts and DATY (consensus view on how WL's should receive their pay rise, as opposed to hourly increase)

Where did I say who is wrong and why?

Re read my post!

[MaxPunter]

I get both, annual minimum 5% increase and 20% maximum paid as a cash bonus of my annual salary pending on previous financial years performance. I've already had my review, I did pretty well and met most of my kpi's.

If you can chose either the 5% guaranteed increase or the 20% bonus based only on your performances which one would you choose?
Mediocre workers will choose the 5%, outperformers that are confident in their own skills would be likely to choose the 20%


Shop or punter???? 1 question at a time please. When I get a definite answer to my 1st query then we can work on your question.
You got your answer from the punters community, now you need to survey the WLs community...i guess you ll have lots of fun screwing across different shops targeting different markets, in order to have a reliable sample of WLs. Good luck with collecting the insights from the grannies in 12 Belleview :p


But without thinking about it to much....punter should pay.
How do you support this view?
I have provided the reasons why i think the shop should guarantee the pay rise

[Gucci2012]

If you can chose either the 5% guaranteed increase or the 20% bonus based only on your performances which one would you choose?
Mediocre workers will choose the 5%, outperformers that are confident in their own skills would be likely to choose the 20%


You got your answer from the punters community, now you need to survey the WLs community...i guess you ll have lots of fun screwing across different shops targeting different markets, in order to have a reliable sample of WLs. Good luck with collecting the insights from the grannies in 12 Belleview :p


How do you support this view?
I have provided the reasons why i think the shop should guarantee the pay rise

I already get both but if I had to choose......pay rise. Bonus is not guaranteed for mediocrity, fortunately for me my predecessor was such a dunce that even my bare minimum makes me shine at work.

Being a punter is the oldest profession in the world, the punter has always footed the bill in someway or another. But don't seek my silly opinion there are more learned then I, more mature, more sensible the list could go on for an eternity. Its just how I feel.

[Gucci2012]

Today is a great day for the forum... Mista Beta is here and has spoken. All 4 of your posts are in this 1 thread, yet u seem to communicate like a forum regular.. any other user names?

What is he wrong about?
1)Consistently hard working wl's deserve more money?
2)the hourly rate should increase
3) punters should reward by giving tips, gifts and DATY (consensus view on how WL's should receive their pay rise, as opposed to hourly increase)

Yeah I thought it was strange that someone who just joined today would come out so strong i mean no one on this forum would be so cowardly as start a fake account because they couldn't say it from their own account, but even though my thread is joke to mista I still welcome his honest opinions and I look forward to his insightful views on all topics and perhaps a few AR's.

Admit I'm wrong? Mista all I've said from the beginning is that hard working wl's deserve a pay raise. Then the forum brethren said no! wl's prefer tips/gifts over a pay rise....ok let me check that real quick, then my brethren said no! Don't check that just take our word, then I said no I will check it. And now my brethren say ok ok wl's prefer pay rise....but I still prefer to hear from a hard working WL directly.

[Gucci2012]

4 punts down for the week and 1 more later today, its been quite an interesting week and going back over this thread I wish I could put big ticks for things agreed by hard working wl's and huge crosses for the things disagreed by hardworking wl's.

[mista]

Care factor = ZERO

[Gucci2012]

Care factor = ZERO

Ahahaha and yet here you are still making valuable and thought provoking insightful contributions? What positive kind member you are.

[mista]

You are welcome.

[IExperiment]

I wonder what the shop owners think about this thread ..
I reckon they might be laughing, running a real shop in real life would be an eye opener for all of us I suspect.
When your livelihood depends on it and there is a free market things usually sort themselves out.
I reckon we should leave it to the professionals to decide how they run their business, and we should stick to being customers, after all that is what we do best :)

Very true CL and they are quite at the moment so making it more expensive will even make it more quiter for them.

[mista]

Its a buyers market, anyone that thinks otherwise is foolish.
Too much choice out there and prices should be DEcreasing.

[Oneonone]

Working ladies can set their own price I have seen them from $100 per hour up to $10,000 per hour who knows some may even charge more.

Any way the girls can work at a shop that suits them if they want to work for $150 shop and get $100 per hour and do around 15 jobs a shift that their choice.

If they want to work somewhere that pays more and they do less jobs its up to them mind you if they are good enough there is no reason they can't still do 15 jobs a shift in a $300 an hour shop.

Years ago I used to see a lady then the rate was $280 an hour and she used to do 15 to 20 jobs a shift another lady I used to see use to go home when she had done 12 jobs.

So we have a choice what we pay and where we spend our money, its up to the girls to decide what they want to sell themselves for.

So lets put this thread to sleep.

[the wizard]

Very true CL and they are quite at the moment so making it more expensive will even make it more quiter for them.
I agree , some shopowners I know are not to enthused about this thread and it being like lazerus, it is not in thier and the punters interests for it be ticking again.......

[mista]

I agree , some shopowners I know are not to enthused about this thread and it being like lazerous, it is not in thier and the punters interests for it be ticking again.......

Give the shopowners some analogies, that don't make sense...problem solved!

[wilisno]

Working ladies can set their own price I have seen them from $100 per hour up to $10,000 per hour who knows some may even charge more.

Any way the girls can work at a shop that suits them if they want to work for $150 shop and get $100 per hour and do around 15 jobs a shift that their choice.

If they want to work somewhere that pays more and they do less jobs its up to them mind you if they are good enough there is no reason they can't still do 15 jobs a shift in a $300 an hour shop.

Years ago I used to see a lady then the rate was $280 an hour and she used to do 15 to 20 jobs a shift another lady I used to see use to go home when she had done 12 jobs.

So we have a choice what we pay and where we spend our money, its up to the girls to decide what they want to sell themselves for.

So lets put this thread to sleep.
That has always been the case. it's silly for outsiders to think they know better than the insiders whose livelihood depends on it !

Then again, this is a General Talk section, this thread might stay to provide some amusement for the forum ! :miao:

[Licker]

Give the shopowners some analogies, that don't make sense...problem solved!


Lazarus sign is a reflex movement in brain-dead patients, which causes them to briefly raise their arms and then drop them

On this forum, just replace "patient" with punter.

Or Wizard could just be referring to this topic being like Lazarus who was (allegedly) raised from the dead by a Jewish born carpenter about 2000 years ago.
In this case replace "the carpenter" with the above.

[Gucci2012]

You are welcome.

Good boy I knew you had some manners. Positive encouragement does work.

[Gucci2012]

That has always been the case. it's silly for outsiders to think they know better than the insiders whose livelihood depends on it !

Then again, this is a General Talk section, this thread might stay to provide some amusement for the forum ! :miao:

Ahahaha "amusement for the forum"???? No no no that comes in my next general talk thread ^_^

[mista]

Admin should lock this thread amd throw away the key.

[Max Impact]

Admin should lock this thread amd throw away the key.

Why do you think that?

[IExperiment]

Working ladies can set their own price I have seen them from $100 per hour up to $10,000 per hour who knows some may even charge more.

Any way the girls can work at a shop that suits them if they want to work for $150 shop and get $100 per hour and do around 15 jobs a shift that their choice.

If they want to work somewhere that pays more and they do less jobs its up to them mind you if they are good enough there is no reason they can't still do 15 jobs a shift in a $300 an hour shop.

Years ago I used to see a lady then the rate was $280 an hour and she used to do 15 to 20 jobs a shift another lady I used to see use to go home when she had done 12 jobs.

So we have a choice what we pay and where we spend our money, its up to the girls to decide what they want to sell themselves for.

So lets put this thread to sleep.

Nicely put similar to what CL say but in more details.

[Gucci2012]

Admin should lock this thread amd throw away the key.

Ahahahaha why?

[bfe]

Hi gucci, you sure you're not a whore or a mamasan?

[Gucci2012]

Hi gucci, you sure you're not a whore or a mamasan?

Lol click on my name my punting history is on display for the world to see, I'm definitely a punter....I clicked on your name and all i saw was a sad hateful person who uses the word "whore" a lot.
#motherissues #bfe<normanbates
#bfe<bloodyface
#5yrold<bfe
#bfesad&hateful
#gethelp

[Gucci2012]

ahahahaha here is the conclusion to this thread http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?37694-Gucci-s-guide-on-how-to&p=411374#post411374

Enjoy