What do you think?......food for thought or a bucket load of shite.

[ChairmanPlough]

So what do you think? Food for thought for the inquisitive mind? Or shite for shrivel dicks?.........

The Moon Landings of 1969-72 were all fake - they never went to moon and have never gone back to the moon since because they can't. They didn't have the technology in the 60s, and they don't have it now to combat the radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere. (see Capricorn 1 the movie, they can’t and don’t make movies like this anymore).

JFK was killed with the support, consent and assistance of the in-coming president LBJ. He and others despised Kennedy and all that he was trying to do to America.

9/11 was an "inside job" to kick-off the everlasting "war on terror" which has resulted in legitimate public dissent becoming viewed as terrorism by all states. Ordinary people are fully expected to become the enemy of the establishment, requiring increasing Orwellian measures to protect the state. WW3 is happening right now.

Bin Laden was a trained CIA agent, he wasn't found and killed, and he wasn't buried at sea. Smoke and mirrors, secrets within secrets.

The Russian holocaust following the October Revolution of 1917 (with a minimum 10 million killed by the Bolsheviks in ten years) has been air-brushed form history - why?

After WW1 there were at least two uprisings in UK. Thousands of young men returning from the war had seen their friends/relatives needlessly killed for a few hundred yards of land, and they wanted big change. Fearing a revolution like that of Russia in 1917, the uprisings were crushed with all participants ruthlessly killed. These incidents were not reported in the press, it was forbidden to do so, and the memories have survived by word of mouth only.

At least 12 - 15 million Soviets were killed in WW2, some say as many as 20 million. Very little is spoken of this these days – why?

It is estimated that Chairman Mao’s regime in China was responsible for the deaths of between 100 and 150 million Chinese. Very little is ever spoken about this these days – why?


If this is all very heavy going, I completely understand, I find it difficult too. Just go and have a punt and you'll feel much better. I totally recommend a good punt, I really do, it’s both enjoyable and good therapy, like music to sooth the savage breast.

Perhaps you can think about it again later at your leisure, because it's all very likely to be true. It is certainly food for thought, at least. But, on the other hand, you might consider it a bucket load of shite for shrivel dicks. So what do you think? Food for thought for the inquisitive mind? Or shite for shrivel dicks?

Lots of love,
ChairmanPlough

[smurfette]

The Moon Landings of 1969-72 were all fake - they never went to moon and have never gone back to the moon since because they can't. They didn't have the technology in the 60s, and they don't have it now to combat the radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere. (see Capricorn 1 the movie, they can’t and don’t make movies like this anymore).

Incorrect, this conspiracy theory has been disproved many times, the US has landed plenty of people on the moon besides Armstrong



JFK was killed with the support, consent and assistance of the in-coming president LBJ. He and others despised Kennedy and all that he was trying to do to America.

Perhaps, LBJ was one dodgy guy.



9/11 was an "inside job" to kick-off the everlasting "war on terror" which has resulted in legitimate public dissent becoming viewed as terrorism by all states. Ordinary people are fully expected to become the enemy of the establishment, requiring increasing Orwellian measures to protect the state. WW3 is happening right now.

911 Conspiracies? plenty around... Able to be proven? Circumstantial evidence only. Only facts are this, US economy was looking pretty bad. Terrorist attack lead to war on terror. Lots of spending on military, economy is better now and we have global surveillance on all individuals. Where did our privacy rights and freedom go? Did anyone miss it?



Bin Laden was a trained CIA agent, he wasn't found and killed, and he wasn't buried at sea. Smoke and mirrors, secrets within secrets.

Bin Laden came from a rich Saudi family, he must of been paid lots to leave this luxury and live in a desert. More likely he was used by the CIA.



The Russian holocaust following the October Revolution of 1917 (with a minimum 10 million killed by the Bolsheviks in ten years) has been air-brushed form history - why?

After WW1 there were at least two uprisings in UK. Thousands of young men returning from the war had seen their friends/relatives needlessly killed for a few hundred yards of land, and they wanted big change. Fearing a revolution like that of Russia in 1917, the uprisings were crushed with all participants ruthlessly killed. These incidents were not reported in the press, it was forbidden to do so, and the memories have survived by word of mouth only.

At least 12 - 15 million Soviets were killed in WW2, some say as many as 20 million. Very little is spoken of this these days – why?

Lesson from Goebels, "if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth". I guess it applies in reverse here, if you don't mention a mistake long enough people will forget about it.



It is estimated that Chairman Mao’s regime in China was responsible for the deaths of between 100 and 150 million Chinese. Very little is ever spoken about this these days – why?


Communism controls literature and the media in China, they will not tolerate any bad publicity. You do not need to go that far back in history to uncover the horrors they have done. Think Tienanmen square, where did all the students go? Where did the man with plastic bags who stood in front of the tanks go? What happened to them? The book "Tombstone" goes to great lengths to document Mao's cultural revolution and the people who died, tying historical facts and eye witness accounts to the horrors that happened.

I find that people do not care about the deaths and suffering of other people, so long as it is not them. Most mainland people I talk to, do criticise the government. But are not willing to do anything to make things change, they are more concerned with making lots of money to help their families back home or to bring them overseas. More recently, I find that mainland people are aware of the atrocities of the Chinese government but accept it as the price of progress. I guess so long as they are not the ones being discriminated against, then they don't care. You only need to go to Chinatown to see people still protesting about the treatment of Fa Lun Gong practitioners in China. Do people care? No, so long as they or their families are not affected. In fact most mainland people I talk to are pretty proud of the their governments achievements.

[CunningLinguist]

Hmm some Crazy stuff there, are you Monkeying around ...

[ChairmanPlough]

Incorrect, this conspiracy theory has been disproved many times, the US has landed plenty of people on the moon besides Armstrong

Don't be so quick to discount the faked moonlandings, nobody has even pretended to be on the moon since the 1969-72 "expeditions."

When asked to swear on the bible that he went, Armstrong, a devout Christian, refused. The feature film Capricorn 1 essentially shows it all, well before

all the stupid conspiracy theories commenced. Most theories are more or less a state sponsored media cultivated scam, designed to create ridicule and a distraction from the real conspiracy.

Those in control of the American space-race were also behind the Soviet space-race. You won't find the answers on youtube, not directly anyway. Smoke and mirrors, secrets within secrets.

[ChairmanPlough]

More recently, I find that mainland people are aware of the atrocities of the Chinese government but accept it as the price of progress. I guess so long as they are not the ones being discriminated against, then they don't care. You only need to go to Chinatown to see people still protesting about the treatment of Fa Lun Gong practitioners in China. Do people care? No, so long as they or their families are not affected. In fact most mainland people I talk to are pretty proud of the their governments achievements.

I agree with you ......"mainland people are aware of the atrocities of the Chinese government but accept it as the price of progress." God help us all.

[ChairmanPlough]

Hmm some Crazy stuff there, are you Monkeying around ...

I'm not sure of the capitalized reference you appear to be making, but you seem interested so....

Most conspiracy theories are more or less state sponsored media cultivated scams, designed firstly to engender ridicule for anyone discussing them, and secondly, they provide multiple distractions from the real conspiracies. If more people realised just how fucked-over we have been, and continue to be, there'd be a global revolution like the world has never seen. Of course, some of us are convinced that it is only a matter of time before this does actually happen, it seems to draw closer with every day that passes, but it will have a fight on its hands all the way. The race is on between the darkness of the pending global totalitarian police state and the shining light of a new world utopia. Which side are you on?

[rushmore]

the US landed people on the moon at some point - they left shit behind which is detectable from earth and brought back moonrocks which contain mineral compositions that do not exist on earth. it is possible the first moon landing was fake though

yeh I agree LBJ prob had prior knowledge of the jfk assassination

I dont believe 911 was an inside job but the cheney bush junta certainly milked the crisis for all it was worth

it is on the public record that bin laden worked with the cia to fight the ussr during in afghanistan. I agree he probably died in 2002 or 2003.

stalins purges have not been forgotten and are a matter of public record, as to are the victims of maos failed economic reforms. however most people have little interest in history

which english 'uprisings' are you referring to? there was unrest among irish separitists toward the end of the war


So what do you think? Food for thought for the inquisitive mind? Or shite for shrivel dicks?.........

The Moon Landings of 1969-72 were all fake - they never went to moon and have never gone back to the moon since because they can't. They didn't have the technology in the 60s, and they don't have it now to combat the radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere. (see Capricorn 1 the movie, they can’t and don’t make movies like this anymore).

JFK was killed with the support, consent and assistance of the in-coming president LBJ. He and others despised Kennedy and all that he was trying to do to America.

9/11 was an "inside job" to kick-off the everlasting "war on terror" which has resulted in legitimate public dissent becoming viewed as terrorism by all states. Ordinary people are fully expected to become the enemy of the establishment, requiring increasing Orwellian measures to protect the state. WW3 is happening right now.

Bin Laden was a trained CIA agent, he wasn't found and killed, and he wasn't buried at sea. Smoke and mirrors, secrets within secrets.

The Russian holocaust following the October Revolution of 1917 (with a minimum 10 million killed by the Bolsheviks in ten years) has been air-brushed form history - why?

After WW1 there were at least two uprisings in UK. Thousands of young men returning from the war had seen their friends/relatives needlessly killed for a few hundred yards of land, and they wanted big change. Fearing a revolution like that of Russia in 1917, the uprisings were crushed with all participants ruthlessly killed. These incidents were not reported in the press, it was forbidden to do so, and the memories have survived by word of mouth only.

At least 12 - 15 million Soviets were killed in WW2, some say as many as 20 million. Very little is spoken of this these days – why?

It is estimated that Chairman Mao’s regime in China was responsible for the deaths of between 100 and 150 million Chinese. Very little is ever spoken about this these days – why?



Perhaps you can think about it again later at your leisure, because it's all very likely to be true. It is certainly food for thought, at least. But, on the other hand, you might consider it a bucket load of shite for shrivel dicks. So what do you think? Food for thought for the inquisitive mind? Or shite for shrivel dicks?

Lots of love,
ChairmanPlough

[ChairmanPlough]

the US landed people on the moon at some point - they left shit behind which is detectable from earth and brought back moonrocks which contain mineral compositions that do not exist on earth. it is possible the first moon landing was fake though

yeh I agree LBJ prob had prior knowledge of the jfk assassination

I dont believe 911 was an inside job but the cheney bush junta certainly milked the crisis for all it was worth

it is on the public record that bin laden worked with the cia to fight the ussr during in afghanistan. I agree he probably died in 2002 or 2003.

stalins purges have not been forgotten and are a matter of public record, as to are the victims of maos failed economic reforms. however most people have little interest in history

which english 'uprisings' are you referring to? there was unrest among irish separitists toward the end of the war

Many English soldiers returning from WW1 had seen enough and had enough, millions of their comrades had been slaughtered for sweet fuck all.

Some of them attempted uprisings, there was one notable shindig up north and another somewhere in greater London. Churchill was given the job, with the British Secret Service & the miltary of crushing of the London uprising, any prisoners taken were executed. (Churchill was a hard bastard long before WW2).

Similarly, in Harrogate/York area the uprising was crushed. I'd heard whispers in the past, but it was all confirmed to me in 2008 by an 85 year old ex-parratrooper from WW2. He was told by his father that there had been some big trouble not long after the end of WW1.

He was from a miltary family, and didn't like to talk much about it (his father was involved as a loyal miltary man), but essentially there were at least two "battles" at separate locations in England. De-mobilised soldiers from WW1 organised themselves and attempted an uprising. They were crushed. Any prisoners taken were shot or hung by Churchill and his establishment cronies.

It was not reported in any way, by order of the government, and no public records exist, only memories handed down by word of mouth.

[ChairmanPlough]

the US landed people on the moon at some point - they left shit behind which is detectable from earth and brought back moonrocks which contain mineral compositions that do not exist on earth. it is possible the first moon landing was fake though

yeh I agree LBJ prob had prior knowledge of the jfk assassination



It's easy to put stuff on the moon, inanimate machinery and structures etc, but it's impossible to put humans up there and expect them to live.
And as regards moon rocks, well thousands of asteroids/meteors have hit planet earth, all of which contain minerals etc that do not exist on earth.

To assume a particular rock is a moon rock because someone at Nasa says it is, well that's being a little gullible. But we are all victims of our own naievity or gullibility, myself included.

Most of us are incredibly trusting, particularly when we are told something by someone we consider to be an authority figure. We've been raised and educated to believe and trust in authority figures - the teacher, the doctor, the boss, the policeman, the official, the minister, the rich man, etc, etc, etc.....More often than not we are fooled everytime.

Another example, "Evolution." Unquestionably, evolution in the broadest sense is a fact - if you eat certain foods and exercise in a certain way, your body will adapt and evolve. Evolution is commonsense.

But, although it provides an explanation of the origin of species, it does not provide the correct one with respect to the origin of humans. Neither you or I ever had an ancestor that was a fish.

In the animal kingdom, it is very likely that evolution, in some form or other, is the explanation for the both the origin of species and species diversity. But we humans, or some of us at least, did not evolve from apes. It's a complete falsehood. But, you know, books get printed, school systems get installed and the falsehoods get permeated throughout the population.

I was very good in biology at school, I loved it. But I was never convinced, even as a child, that evolution applied to humans, or at least it didn't apply to some of us.

[Licker]

The Moon Landings of 1969-72 were all fake - they never went to moon and have never gone back to the moon since because they can't. They didn't have the technology in the 60s, and they don't have it now to combat the radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere. (see Capricorn 1 the movie, they can’t and don’t make movies like this anymore).

I'm too tired now to take on the other conspiracy theories in your post, but I'll comment on this one first.

Firstly, what the f*** has Capricorn 1 the movie to do with the moon?

Secondly, the technology was their in the 60's and it definitely is there now.
Whether there is any point of repeating the trip at the moment (or between 72 and now) is another matter. It costs a hell of a lot money.

Thirdly, whenever someone starts talking about "radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere" I typically stop reading straightaway.
THE MOON HAS NO ATMOSPHERE!!!!!

[ChairmanPlough]

I'm too tired now to take on the other conspiracy theories in your post, but I'll comment on this one first.

Firstly, what the f*** has Capricorn 1 the movie to do with the moon?

Secondly, the technology was their in the 60's and it definitely is there now.
Whether there is any point of repeating the trip at the moment (or between 72 and now) is another matter. It costs a hell of a lot money.

Thirdly, whenever someone starts talking about "radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere" I typically stop reading straightaway.
THE MOON HAS NO ATMOSPHERE!!!!!

Capricorn 1 demonstrated what could happen in a flawed space-race scenario. And the makers at least had an incline that the so-called moon-landings
had been faked. You play with words a little, that's your perogative, but it changes nothing. The moon does not exist in a vacuum. There is stuff up there
which is not compatible to human life, when this was realised they had to make a choice - call it all off or win the space-race against the soviets.

They chose the latter, they wanted to make America look supreme despite all the protests over Vietnam and the recent assassinations of Martin Luther King & Bobby Kennedy.
As well as the earlier murder of president John "Jack" kennedy in 63. The establishment was threatened in the late 60s. The American psyche badly needed something of a boost.
They wanted to bring "wonder, awe, excitement, adventure" back to the American people in the face of all the shit that was going on. So the space-race had to continue regardless.

Don't be so quick to discount the faked moonlandings, nobody has even pretended to be on the moon since the 1969-72 "expeditions."
When asked to swear on the bible that he went, Armstrong, a devout Christian, refused. The feature film Capricorn 1 shows what power/politics can create,
and well before all the stupid conspiracy theories commenced. Most theories are more or less a state sponsored media cultivated scam, designed to create ridicule
and a distraction from the real conspiracy.

Those in control of the American space-race were also behind the Soviet space-race. You won't find the answers on youtube, not directly anyway. Smoke and mirrors, secrets within secrets.

[CunningLinguist]

When asked to swear on the bible that he went, Armstrong, a devout Christian, refused.

To put this in context (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=59b_1345167524&comments=1), he was asked by some low life scumbag that looked like our equivalent of a shock jock to do it. He obviously knew this guy and had no respect for him. I think he was refusing because he didn't like the guy. More importantly I think using this as evidence to support your theory is disingenuous, and that you have now put yourself in the same category as the reporter. Given this questionable "fact" I think most of what you say can now be discounted.
Seems my guess at post #3 was correct.

[CunningLinguist]

You won't find the answers on youtube, not directly anyway. Smoke and mirrors, secrets within secrets.

I suppose we will only find the answers from you ...

[ChairmanPlough]

I suppose we will only find the answers from you ...

I can only point the way, you have to choose whether you want to know what the truth really is...
"seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened." I cannot seek for you or knock for you.

[ChairmanPlough]

To put this in context (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=59b_1345167524&comments=1), he was asked by some low life scumbag that looked like our equivalent of a shock jock to do it. He obviously knew this guy and had no respect for him. I think he was refusing because he didn't like the guy. More importantly I think using this as evidence to support your theory is disingenuous, and that you have now put yourself in the same category as the reporter. Given this questionable "fact" I think most of what you say can now be discounted.
Seems my guess at post #3 was correct.

Why do you regard the man with the bible as a low life scumbag? I think he was quite civil and polite, though persistent.
Armstrong was known to be a devout Christian, and he was clearly uncomfortable with being put on the spot.
He had the opportunity to make a quick $5K for a charity of his choosing, if he was prepared to swear on the bible that he had walked on the moon.
There is no question about the facts here.....he would not swear on the bible that he went to the moon.

Yes, there are several possible reasons for that, including that he, as a christian, did not want to use the bible for any kind of profit,
or dishonour the lord his god with gotchya tabloid journalism. This may be the case, and I'd be the first to commend him for that, if that was his thinking.
But the unquestionable fact remains that he wouldn't swear to it. Many people, with clear conscience, would have done so with a smile on their face.

There are several pieces of film showing Armstrong as a someone who seemed to be carrying a very heavy load, he was not at peace with himself. We can only
speculate as to why this might be. But you can't really say that "not being prepared to swear on the bible" for whatever reason, is evidence that he did actually walk on the moon.
More and more people know they didn't get to the moon, and that's absolutely no discredit whatsoever to Neil Armstrong.
It was his great misfortune that he got mixed up in something well beyond his control.

[wilisno]

I suppose we will only find the answers from you ...
In the form of a poem maybe ? ;) ;) ;)

[rushmore]

how do you explain the existence of the lunar retroreflectors?

[wilisno]

There are several pieces of film showing Armstrong as a someone who seemed to be carrying a very heavy load, he was not at peace with himself. We can only
speculate as to why this might be. But you can't really say that "not being prepared to swear on the bible" for whatever reason, is evidence that he did actually walk on the moon.
More and more people know they didn't get to the moon, and that's absolutely no discredit whatsoever to Neil Armstrong.
It was his great misfortune that he got mixed up in something well beyond his control.
Yeah ! Movie plots are usually the hard facts ! Lol

[ChairmanPlough]

You guys are getting hung up on the fake moon-landings because it is "apparently" well known.
The popular tabloid bluff & counter bluff is known, but that's only the distraction or diversion from the real conspiracy,
as I mentioned previously. Laughing at or ridiculing the state sponsored/media cultivated scam conspiracy theorists
takes your eyes and minds away from the real stuff. Maybe I'll shed some light on this at some point, maybe.

In the meantime, there are several other items mentioned in the original post which should also be given
at least equal consideration.

[ChairmanPlough]

how do you explain the existence of the lunar retroreflectors?

Hi Rushmore,
I refer you to my previous comment which you may not have seen, I sincerely respect your intelligent questioning, it's a very good sign of an inquisitive mind.



It's easy to put stuff on the moon, inanimate machinery and structures etc, but it's impossible to put humans up there and expect them to live.
And as regards moon rocks, well thousands of asteroids/meteors have hit planet earth, all of which contain minerals etc that do not exist on earth.

To assume a particular rock is a moon rock because someone at Nasa says it is, well that's being a little gullible. But we are all victims of our own naievity or gullibility, myself included.

Most of us are incredibly trusting, particularly when we are told something by someone we consider to be an authority figure. We've been raised and educated to believe and trust in authority figures - the teacher, the doctor, the boss, the policeman, the official, the minister, the rich man, etc, etc, etc.....More often than not we are fooled everytime.

Another example, "Evolution." Unquestionably, evolution in the broadest sense is a fact - if you eat certain foods and exercise in a certain way, your body will adapt and evolve. Evolution is commonsense.

But, although it provides an explanation of the origin of species, it does not provide the correct one with respect to the origin of humans. Neither you or I ever had an ancestor that was a fish.

In the animal kingdom, it is very likely that evolution, in some form or other, is the explanation for the both the origin of species and species diversity. But we humans, or some of us at least, did not evolve from apes. It's a complete falsehood. But, you know, books get printed, school systems get installed and the falsehoods get permeated throughout the population.

I was very good in biology at school, I loved it. But I was never convinced, even as a child, that evolution applied to humans, or at least it didn't apply to some of us.

[ChairmanPlough]

Yeah ! Movie plots are usually the hard facts ! Lol

There may not be one indisputable fact in any given book, lecture, artwork, theory, or movie.
But they can all still be full of the essential truth, you just have to be ready, willing and able to see it.

[rushmore]

how do you explain the fact that the chinese chang'2, japanese SELENE and indian chandrayaan-1 lunar probes have all photographed hardware left behind from the apollo landing?

[CunningLinguist]

how do you explain the fact that the chinese chang'2, japanese SELENE and indian chandrayaan-1 lunar probes have all photographed hardware left behind from the apollo landing?

They must be in on the conspiracy as well, we all know how well the Chinese, Japanese, and Indian goverments like to cooperate ....
Seriously apart from some idle entertainment value its hardly worth ...

[ChairmanPlough]

how do you explain the fact that the chinese chang'2, japanese SELENE and indian chandrayaan-1 lunar probes have all photographed hardware left behind from the apollo landing?

There may well be hardware on the moon surface, that doesn’t mean it was left by an astronaut from a moon landing. Any hardware on the moon has been left by various probes, rockets or other un-manned space-craft or vessel or contraption of some kind. From the outset, I’ve said that it’s relatively easy for machines, or probes if you prefer, to access the moon. This is not a point of contention. The point is that no man has been on the moon.

[wilisno]

They must be in on the conspiracy as well, we all know how well the Chinese, Japanese, and Indian goverments like to cooperate ....
Seriously apart from some idle entertainment value its hardly worth ...
You might even find those facts in a movie that all those countries are involved in the conspiracy ..... ;) ;) ;)

Anyway, it doesn't do much good either way now that Moon of 5* has retired ! :(

[ChairmanPlough]

They must be in on the conspiracy as well, we all know how well the Chinese, Japanese, and Indian goverments like to cooperate ....
Seriously apart from some idle entertainment value its hardly worth ...

The Chinese, Japanese & Indians have never even attempted to put a man on the moon, and they've had plenty time to do so. Just think about it.
Probes from these countries have photographed, apparently, hardware on the moon that was left behind by previous US un-manned apollo probes/rockets.
There is no argument about this from me, no contention about this at all. Come on guys, think now, this is not rocket science.....hahahahaha

Whether the Chinese/Japanese/Indians and of course Russians, are "in" on the conspiracy is a very interesting question.
Can "groupthink" make people see things they want to see, and believe things they want to believe? Well, yes it can.
But can that alone explain this all away. To some extent, perhaps, but only in part.

It's more likely that they (the people that mattered at the top) were simply made an offer they could not refuse, and their compliance was thus achieved.
Then the mass media does the rest in terms of convincing the general population.

[timtam]

All I know is that I landed on the Moon and it was at 5 star!!!

I also did a lot of various shots and some were great!!!!

Who cares we are all going to die!!! Fuck while you can!!!

[ChairmanPlough]

Who cares we are all going to die!!! Fuck while you can!!!

Thinking and fucking are not mutually exclusive, it is quite possible to do both I assure you.

You seem to propose that we stop thinking and just settle for fucking. Thinking sets you free,
to settle only for fucking is to enslave yourself to the material, which is little more than animalistic.

[Licker]

You play with words a little, that's your perogative, but it changes nothing.

Could you be more specific on where I play with words?
I thought I was just stating facts.


The moon does not exist in a vacuum. There is stuff up there which is not compatible to human life

Well, purely from the point of theoretical physics, there is no such thing as a "absolute vacuum", but for the any practical purposes the moon is in a vacuum, as it's gravity is not able to hold an atmosphere.

"There is stuff up there which is not compatible to human life"

That sound really scientific and convincing. Stuff? really? REALLY???

More so that there is stuff there, it would be the case of NO stuff there that is not compatible with human life. That being the absence of breathable atmosphere.
But that is what the space suits are for.

FYI:
Your comments about a devote Christian not swearing on a bible mean abso-fucking-lutely nothing to me.
I have seen people swearing on the bible and lying trough their teeth, so it does not mean anything.

FYI: Even though the name of the holy book of the Christian faith is supposed be written with a capital B, I have written it with a lower case b (just like you), because I do not consider it anything more than a book (a collection of bedtime stories, and most of them aren't even that good).

[rushmore]

Licker - The Bible is not a collection of 'bedtime stories'. It is a book of history, mythology and poetry.

timtam - I agree with the chairman, to refrain from intellectual inquiry and concern ourselves with nothing other than the pleasures of the flesh makes us no better than animals

chairman - do you have views on the death of princess diana? I have always believed that this was an assassination orchestrated by agents of the british eatablishment

[ChairmanPlough]

Licker - The Bible is not a collection of 'bedtime stories'. It is a book of history, mythology and poetry.

timtam - I agree with the chairman, to refrain from intellectual inquiry and concern ourselves with nothing other than the pleasures of the flesh makes us no better than animals

chairman - do you have views on the death of princess diana? I have always believed that this was an assassination orchestrated by agents of the british eatablishment

This is an interesing question regarding Diana. Something which gets overlooked is that she may or may not have been the target if it was an assassination.

The son of Al Fayed, the owner of Harrods, was also killed. Fayed was, and is, a very rich guy of Egyptian descent I think. And he is still totally convinced that it was an assassination by the British Secret Service. This alone is something which needs to be given due respect.

The thing with "the establishment" is that it doesn't like anyone who starts rocking the boat, it's threatening. Diana and Dodi (I think that was his name) were certainly pissing off the royals with their behaviour.

She was still the mother of the future king of England, yet acting like a run of the mill celebrity. But worse than all this, was the fact that she had already had affairs whilst married to Prince Charles. It is commonly felt that Prince Harry is not Charles' son, but that of the army captain she had an affair with (can't recall the name but it's all public knowledge from the books that were written).

There is a definite resemblance in Harry's face to this guy, and he has gone completely silent for many years now. Probably got an offer he couldn't refuse. If she was assassinated with her lover Dodi, and it's certainly possible, then it may well have been the inevitable end to a long culmination of events that had totally infuriated the establishment.

I don't have a strong view either way. But looking objectively, Diana was not suited to Royal life, too young and too free spirited. They should have chosen a more suitable aristocrat. As a result, Diana eventually became a thorn in the side of the royals and associated establishment. When that happens, anything is possible.

[CunningLinguist]

Have you heard about the high power flashgun theory, the guy on the motorbike who was chasing them has a "military grade" photographic flash, he fires it at the driver and the driver is blinded by the intense light and crashes the car ...

[sunshinemassage]

I think you nice gentlemen need a lovely relaxing massage. Please checkout our all new roster.:smile:

Warm regards,
Sunshine Massage

[CunningLinguist]

So what do you think? Food for thought for the inquisitive mind? Or shite for shrivel dicks?.........



I think you nice gentlemen need a lovely relaxing massage. Please checkout our all new roster.:smile:

Warm regards,
Sunshine Massage

Since you asked, I think that is
a bucket load of shite

[ChairmanPlough]

Have you heard about the high power flashgun theory, the guy on the motorbike who was chasing them has a "military grade" photographic flash, he fires it at the driver and the driver is blinded by the intense light and crashes the car ...

This is definitely the most plausible explanation. However, it doesn't exclude the possibility of foul play -
was it a genuine accident caused by an over zealous photographer or was it a deliberate malicious act to cause the accident?
The secret service have many different weapons and strategies at their disposal, and decades, even centuries, of experience.
I don't have a strong view either way, but I think she and dodi certainly had an unfortunate and premature end to their lives.
Either way, very sad for their respective families

[ChairmanPlough]

Evolution?

Most of us are incredibly trusting, particularly when we are told something by someone we consider to be an authority figure.
We've been raised and educated to trust in authority figures - the teacher, the doctor, the boss, the policeman, the official,
the minister, the rich man, etc, etc, etc.....More often than not we are fooled everytime.

Another likely conspiracy example, "Evolution."
Unquestionably, evolution in the broadest sense is a fact - if you eat certain foods and exercise in a certain way, your body will adapt and evolve.

Evolution is absolute commonsense. But, although it provides an explanation of the origin of species, it does not provide the correct one with respect
to the origin of humans. Neither you or I ever had an ancestor that was a fish.

In the animal kingdom, it is very likely that evolution, in some form or other, is the explanation for both the origin of species and species diversity.
But we humans, or some of us at least, did not evolve from apes. It's a complete falsehood.

But, you know, books get printed, school systems get installed and the falsehoods get permeated throughout the population.
After a few generations of indoctrination we generally buy it. " All in all you're just another brick in the wall." (Pink Floyd)

Roger Waters knows where it's at. Sensible people should listen to him - but not always agree with, just listen and eventually learn in your own time.

[Licker]

Most of us are incredibly trusting, particularly when we are told something by someone we consider to be an authority figure.
We've been raised and educated to trust in authority figures - the teacher, the doctor, the boss, the policeman, the official,
the minister, the rich man, etc, etc, etc.....More often than not we are fooled everytime.

You're missing one key profession from your list of authority figures. The clergymen, rabbis and imams.


Another likely conspiracy example, "Evolution."
Unquestionably, evolution in the broadest sense is a fact - if you eat certain foods and exercise in a certain way, your body will adapt and evolve.

You seem to have totally misunderstood the evolutionary theory.
Changing you diet and exercising has nothing to do with evolution.
Your reproductive cells (spermatozoon for men, ovum for women) won't change due your diet or exercise, the DNA is still the same as when you where born.
The only change to them could be due mutagens (physical or chemical agent that changes the genetic material), like high radiation or some toxins.


Evolution is absolute commonsense. But, although it provides an explanation of the origin of species, it does not provide the correct one with respect to the origin of humans. Neither you or I ever had an ancestor that was a fish.

None of the fish alive today, but an ancestor that much resembles today's fish.


In the animal kingdom, it is very likely that evolution, in some form or other, is the explanation for both the origin of species and species diversity.
But we humans, or some of us at least, did not evolve from apes. It's a complete falsehood.

The evolutionary theory does not say than humans evolved from apes!
So it seems you've misunderstood the theory (or the person who told you about it had misunderstood it).
(I don't care to comment on your "some of us at least", that would just lead to some crazy monkey business)


But, you know, books get printed, school systems get installed and the falsehoods get permeated throughout the population.
After a few generations of indoctrination we generally buy it.

Yes there are some great examples of this that have been around for some 2000 to 3000 years.

[ChairmanPlough]

Licker: You seem to have totally misunderstood the evolutionary theory.
Changing you diet and exercising has nothing to do with evolution.
Your reproductive cells (spermatozoon for men, ovum for women) won't change due your diet or exercise, the DNA is still the same as when you where born.
The only change to them could be due mutagens (physical or chemical agent that changes the genetic material), like high radiation or some toxins.

You can’t have it both ways my friend. Changing diet and exercise (lifestyle) is very much a part of evolution – both physiological and psychological. Over 100s of generations, dietary and life-style changes would have a significant impact on the evolution of the human condition. I was simply making the point that even within a period of months, we can see modifications in our condition through diet and exercise. Multiply this by many generations and the effects would be much more significant – hence evolution would have done its work.


Licker: The evolutionary theory does not say than humans evolved from apes!
So it seems you've misunderstood the theory (or the person who told you about it had misunderstood it). (I don't care to comment on your "some of us at least", that would just lead to some crazy monkey business)

I appreciate there are some diverse views within the umbrella of evolutionary theory, but you seem to be saying on the one hand that the theory does not suggest we evolved from apes, but on the other hand it does say we evolved from fish. This positioning does not pass the “common sense” test with me. And if you “don’t care to” comment on the “some of us at least” aspect, doesn’t this simply reflect the era we are in – where freedom of thought and speech is not acceptable when it rocks the boat of the establishment’s propogated view. You and I are there, right now, positioning ourselves on the edge of reality. The question is what side do we choose to take – do we stay in the comfort zone, affirmed to us 24/7 by every aspect of mainstream popular culture, or do we think for ourselves? You have knowledge, but knowledge alone does not necessarily bring truth or wisdom. One has to step outside oneself and the surrounds, and look down strategically on what you see to get an appreciation of the essential truth.

Nevertheless, you make for interesting reading and I must confess there is a likable aspect to you. And I'm gratified that you are seeking truth in your own way.

[CunningLinguist]

Evolution?
In the animal kingdom, it is very likely that evolution, in some form or other, is the explanation for both the origin of species and species diversity.
But we humans, or some of us at least, did not evolve from apes. It's a complete falsehood.


So animals evolved but humans didn't, or some anyway.
You say with certainty they didn't evolve so you must know what happened, are you going to tell us ?
So were did those lucky humans come from, outer space ?
Are you a scientologist ?

[Licker]

You can’t have it both ways my friend. Changing diet and exercise (lifestyle) is very much a part of evolution – both physiological and psychological. Over 100s of generations, dietary and life-style changes would have a significant impact on the evolution of the human condition. I was simply making the point that even within a period of months, we can see modifications in our condition through diet and exercise. Multiply this by many generations and the effects would be much more significant – hence evolution would have done its work.

I’m not “having it both ways”.
Biological evolution and cultural evolution - let alone technical evolution - are separate things, and the latter two may or may not have favourable effects to the biological evolution.

Throughout the biosphere (animals and plants alike) the LIFE has always favoured those individuals who have had a physical characteristic that allowed them to stay alive better than the individuals without that characteristic. These individuals then naturally were able to produce offspring (while the others might not) and thus the next generation had a bigger percentage of those with the characteristic.
That is EVOLUTION in a nutshell.


When talking about humans, for the most part we are already past that point (at least for now).

If one (for argument sake let us say that we are talking about a man) has a good diet (enough energy, nutrients and required vitamins) and exercises, his condition naturally improves, but it does not mean that his children will have an improved physic inherited from the father.
If his child just sits in front of the television eating chips and coke, you won’t see any inherited improvements due his genes.
The cultural evolution (passing on knowledge of proper diet) will help the future generations.

Dietary improvements certainly help the condition of an individual, but they have no effect on his genome. His children inherit his genes that he had when he was born and naturally also those of the mother, and the combination of those two is the cause of the possible evolution. There is some natural mutation happening due environmental conditions (like radiation), that may mutate the DNA, but that is usually random and may result into a favourable change or an unfavourable change.

Dietary changes (on a cultural level) can lead to favourable changes and evolution due the above mentioned factors (favourable combination of genes and mutation) if the combination of genes helps them stay alive better than those who do not have that combination. But that typically requires that you have to adapt to a new condition and that those who have adapted are more likely to live long enough to produce offspring.

A good example of such adaptation is the use of milk and the ability of humans to break lactose at adult age.

Lactose intolerance is originally the “normal” condition. We are not meant to consume milk after early childhood, and the production of the enzyme that breaks lactose stops after the breastfeeding stops. After our cultural evolution (in this case the ability to pass information via language) had reached the point where we could start farming (which was also accommodated by a period of very warm climate period about 7000 years ago that turned Northern Africa and some other areas favourable enough to grow crops) and later also start keeping animals as a food source, those who had goats (and later cows) and milked the were able to stay alive and keep their children alive as well, were the ones who were able to reproduce in numbers and thus that gene pool flourished. In those cultures (typically further North) were due harsher weather conditions and shorter growth time, the use of milk products was a necessity to get over the winter, those with the changed in physiology were favoured, and thus nowadays have less people who cannot break lactose at adult age.

But this evolution, the increase of the percentage of people with lactose tolerance in the population yet again is due to combining the genes (for example father without and mother with) and producing more offspring with lactose tolerance.
It is not a case of someone with lactose intolerance miraculously producing the tolerance during his lifetime.


Due to advances in our technology (at least in developed countries where the child mortality rate is very low and almost everyone is able to produce offspring), namely the ability to produce enough food, advances in medicine and our ability to change the environment rather than adapting to it, I think that the human race is not evolving anymore, and it could be arguable that we have even started to devolve.
It will be interesting to see who humans will adapt if some environmental condition, like global warming (regardless of its cause) changes that situation of longevity and child mortality rate.


I appreciate there are some diverse views within the umbrella of evolutionary theory, but you seem to be saying on the one hand that the theory does not suggest we evolved from apes, but on the other hand it does say we evolved from fish. This positioning does not pass the “common sense” test with me.

Yes there are some diverse views, but not to the extent that you seem to refer to. In the field of science (any science) there should be diverse views, otherwise there would be no progress or scientific discovery. But the opposing views should be researched and tested.

My view in regards to the apes and fish is in no way in opposition to the current accepted theory of evolution.

Now, I don’t know what you mean by ‘apes’, but I assume you mean the common use of the word that refers to some subspecies of the current primates (excluding humans).


Apes are Old World anthropoid mammals, more specifically a clade of tailless catarrhine primates, belonging to the biological superfamily Hominoidea. The apes are native to Africa and South-east Asia. Apes are the largest primates and the orangutan, an ape, is the largest living arboreal animal. Hominoids are traditionally forest dwellers, although chimpanzees may range into savanna, and the extinct australopithecines were likely also savanna inhabitants, inferred from their morphology. Humans inhabit almost every terrestrial habitat.

Humans did not evolve from apes. We are apes, more specifically African apes.
So we have a common ancestor with the other apes, and that common ancestor has evolved from that fish like animal.

Hint: You could find the Human ancestor in the above quote, but even that is not the common ancestor with all the apes.

Perhaps if you think about your cousins, that might pass your “common sense test”.
You and your cousin both have the same grandparents, but yet you a not a descendant of your cousin. Get it?



And if you “don’t care to” comment on the “some of us at least” aspect, doesn’t this simply reflect the era we are in – where freedom of thought and speech is not acceptable when it rocks the boat of the establishment’s propogated view. You and I are there, right now, positioning ourselves on the edge of reality. The question is what side do we choose to take – do we stay in the comfort zone, affirmed to us 24/7 by every aspect of mainstream popular culture, or do we think for ourselves? You have knowledge, but knowledge alone does not necessarily bring truth or wisdom. One has to step outside oneself and the surrounds, and look down strategically on what you see to get an appreciation of the essential truth.

Freedom of speech is a value that I hold into a very high regard. But if you want to throw totally out of the box ideas, then you better have some kind of evidence to back them up.

When it comes to evolution, it is not just something that is “affirmed to us 24/7 by every aspect of mainstream popular culture”.
It is a scientific theory, well researched and peer reviewed, and the evidence to it is overwhelming.

[CunningLinguist]

It's hard to see how CP will make a comeback to Lickers post. I bet he will do one of the following:
- ignore it
- post a Sunshine massage add
- gloss over all the facts and restate his "theory"
- pick some minor point and blow it out of proportion and atack it while igoring the meat of the argument
- become abusive

One of these is least likely to happen:
- tell us his theory, where did humans really come from
- apologise for being an .........

And if past performance is a predictor of future performance the following could happen at any time:
- he gets banned
- all his threads and posts get deleted, again...

[ChairmanPlough]

It's hard to see how CP will make a comeback to Lickers post. I bet he will do one of the following:
- ignore it
- post a Sunshine massage add
- gloss over all the facts and restate his "theory"
- pick some minor point and blow it out of proportion and atack it while igoring the meat of the argument
- become abusive

One of these is least likely to happen:
- tell us his theory, where did humans really come from
- apologise for being an .........

And if past performance is a predictor of future performance the following could happen at any time:
- he gets banned
- all his threads and posts get deleted, again...


It appears you have nothing to add to the content of this interesting discussion....only vitriol.
Why would you read a thread you're not willing or able to meaningfully contribute to?
Good show to Licker for attempting to contribute in a civilized manner , even though it's more than a little long-winded.

[ChairmanPlough]

Licker - Biological evolution and cultural evolution - let alone technical evolution - are separate things, and the latter two may or may not have favourable effects to the biological evolution.

I agree, and have said nothing to the contrary.


Licker - If a man has a good diet (enough energy, nutrients and required vitamins) and exercises, his condition naturally improves, but it does not mean that his children will have an improved physic inherited from the father. If his child just sits in front of the television eating chips and coke, you won’t see any inherited improvements due his genes. The cultural evolution (passing on knowledge of proper diet) will help the future generations.

So we are in agreement again.


Licker - Dietary improvements certainly help the condition of an individual, but they have no effect on his genome. There is some natural mutation happening due environmental conditions (like radiation), that may mutate the DNA, but that is usually random and may result into a favourable change or an unfavourable change.

So you clearly do agree that environmental conditions may well impact on DNA, Over multiple generations the cumulative impact of better health will have an effect on genetics.


Licker - Yes there are some diverse views, but not to the extent that you seem to refer to. In the field of science (any science) there should be diverse views, otherwise there would be no progress or scientific discovery. But the opposing views should be researched and tested.

What passes for good science now probably won’t be regarded very highly in 200 years time, I can assure you. You shouldn’t lock yourself in to the “here and now” mentality – just because it’s current thinking doesn’t make it right.


Licker Humans did not evolve from apes. We are apes, more specifically African apes.

On this we are in complete disagreement, and emphatically so.


Licker - Freedom of speech is a value that I hold into a very high regard. But if you want to throw totally out of the box ideas, then you better have some kind of evidence to back them up.

Evidence? – You would consider current scientific method as the means of providing evidence. But I have seen too many “changes and backflips” in scientific method, especially in the medical field, but others also, that I simply don’t hold the scientific profession in as high regard as you do. There is a complacency about your “faith” in science that is a concern from my perspective.


Licker - When it comes to evolution, it is not just something that is “affirmed to us 24/7 by every aspect of mainstream popular culture”. It is a scientific theory, well researched and peer reviewed, and the evidence to it is overwhelming.

You’ve already agreed that there are diverse views in scientific theory, so you are stretching credulity when you suggest the evidence is overwhelming. The pervasive transmission of mainstream scientific theory might be overwhelming to you and many others, because it is omnipresent from birth to grave for most folk.

Well, I think we agree on several points, and disagree on others. There it is Licker.

But it’s ironic and paradoxical that you have such a demonstrably great and proud “faith” in current science and scientific theory, whilst clearly being of a very Atheistic disposition. I’m bound say, this really makes me chuckle , it’s so very prevalent these days. For many people, current scientific method & theory demands allegiance with an almost fundamentalist religous fervour. That’s a worry, wouldn’t you say?

Cheers for the interesting discussion. I'd be happy to hear from you again on this and other relevant matters.

[CunningLinguist]

So now we know that he thinks god made man, well some men anyway, not all though as CP says, as some have come from apes, I bet I know who he thinks has come from an ape. I wonder what his views are on Dawkins ...

[ChairmanPlough]

So now we know that he thinks god made man, well some men anyway, not all though as CP says, as some have come from apes, I bet I know who he thinks has come from an ape. I wonder what his views are on Dawkins ...

It would seem to me that my very civil, and might I say eloquent, response to Licker’s post, and his attempted critique, has completely bamboozled you.
Did you really think I would have any difficulty in responding? And were you not a little surprised that he and I clearly agree on several aspects?
Feel free to make a meaningful contribution to this very interesting and intellectually demanding discussion. I welcome, and encourage, civil debate and discussion.

[Licker]

So now we know that he thinks god made man, well some men anyway, not all though as CP says, as some have come from apes, I bet I know who he thinks has come from an ape. I wonder what his views are on Dawkins ...

Clearly he is excellent in "trying to" twist words, taking quotes out of context and adding his own views to what he has marked as quoted from me .

The sentence in bold in what he represents as a quote from me, is something that I have never wrote, and totally opposite to what I said.

Licker - Dietary improvements certainly help the condition of an individual, but they have no effect on his genome. ( over multiple generations the cumulative impact of better health will have an effect on genetics) There is some natural mutation happening due environmental conditions (like radiation), that may mutate the DNA, but that is usually random and may result into a favourable change or an unfavourable change.


He has clearly missed the whole essence of the scientific method, which by definition expects that when new information comes available then the current theories need to be reviewed in light of the information.

This is the total opposite of, let's say creationists for example, who already know the truth because it was written 3000 years ago.
There is typically no amount of evidence that will change their mind.

I'm not sure whether I bother continuing any sort of conversation with him.
It would most likely be totally fruitless and utter waste of my time.

[markrmau2]

Haha, I think I've seen everything now. A serious debate about the theory of evolution on a punting forum.

Lol, don't get me wrong, I LOVE IT!!!!

Go for it :smile:

Are those critters over to the right meant to look like semen?

I seriously recommend everyone who is interested in these topic to loos for lecture torrents (ahem) produced by The Learning Company. Faskinating!

There are plenty dealing with evolution, biology, psychology and the like.

[ChairmanPlough]

Clearly he is excellent in "trying to" twist words, taking quotes out of context and adding his own views to what he has marked as quoted from me .

The sentence in bold in what he represents as a quote from me, is something that I have never wrote, and totally opposite to what I said.



He has clearly missed the whole essence of the scientific method, which by definition expects that when new information comes available then the current theories need to be reviewed in light of the information.

This is the total opposite of, let's say creationists for example, who already know the truth because it was written 3000 years ago.
There is typically no amount of evidence that will change their mind.

I'm not sure whether I bother continuing any sort of conversation with him.
It would most likely be totally fruitless and utter waste of my time.

The bracketed sentence you refer to has been removed and positioned correctly, it was my bracketed line which I did not pick up on my proof read.
However, it makes no difference to that particular point because you freely admit that environmental conditions do have an impact. So we are in agreement.
But the error was made and is now corrected. I was stimulated by your critique and in my haste to respond I did not pick up that particular bracketed line.

I'm very well aware of scientific method. And I don't have blind faith in it as you appear to have. You openly say that when new information comes available, the current theories need to be reviewed.

Now let's just stop and think about that. Are you saying, as most others do, "we should believe in the current science because that's what we've got right now, and later when it is changed we can all start believing the prevailing science at that time."

That "here and now mentality" is incredibly dangerous. Example - In the 30s/40s/50s it was very cool to smoke, the film stars did it and many others followed.

There was no public domain science at that time to argue against smoking, but plenty of people knew it was a bad idea so they did not smoke.

But just look at what has happened to public health as a result of smoking over the last 50 years.
Had the science been made publicly available at the time, millions if not billions would have had much better quality of life and lengthier lives.

Very probably the same thing is happening now with mobil phones. Let's all wait for the science to get updated later on.

[rushmore]

Licker, its well established that behavioural traits can and often are transmitted genetically from parent to offpsring - its called epigenetics and is taught it all universities (although Im pretty sure youve never set foot in one of those!!) You really should check your facts before you mouth off like an ignorant fool.

[Licker]

Licker, its well established that behavioural traits can and often are transmitted genetically from parent to offpsring - its called epigenetics and is taught it all universities (although Im pretty sure youve never set foot in one of those!!) You really should check your facts before you mouth off like an ignorant fool.

Where did you learn to read mate?

Where and when did I ever say that behavioural traits cannot be transmitted genetically?

[ChairmanPlough]

Things are beginning to look quite interesting around here.....

....too many people in the current era want their answers served up to them on a plate from "science."
But if science is capable of being updated, and it obviously is, well that makes science contextual by era,
or an evolving process of discovery. However, not everyone requires their answers to delivered from an ever changing science,
and it is a truism to say "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing." Science has its place,
but it is not a panacea for all life's ills.

[CunningLinguist]

Licker, its well established that behavioural traits can and often are transmitted genetically from parent to offpsring - its called epigenetics and is taught it all universities (although Im pretty sure youve never set foot in one of those!!) You really should check your facts before you mouth off like an ignorant fool.

Hmmm ...., Do you have any other forum user names ?

[CunningLinguist]

Things are beginning to look quite interesting around here.....

....too many people in the current era want their answers served up to them on a plate from "science."
But if science is capable of being updated, and it obviously is, well that makes science contextual by era,
or an evolving process of discovery. However, not everyone requires their answers to delivered from an ever changing science,
and it is a truism to say "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing." Science has its place,
but it is not a panacea for all life's ills.

Ok if we don't get answers from science then where do we get them from ?
I suppose you are going to say religion, if so which one ?
Or maybe religion is not the answer, maybe you are the fountain of all knowledge ...

[ChairmanPlough]

Haha, I think I've seen everything now. A serious debate about the theory of evolution on a punting forum.

Lol, don't get me wrong, I LOVE IT!!!!

Go for it :smile:

Are those critters over to the right meant to look like semen?

I seriously recommend everyone who is interested in these topic to loos for lecture torrents (ahem) produced by The Learning Company. Faskinating!

There are plenty dealing with evolution, biology, psychology and the like.

Thanks for the general support & acknowledgement my friend, it's gratifying to know some folks are enjoying the discussion.

[rushmore]

science is a consensus management process when enough members of the scientific community agree that a scientific principle exists it is validated as such ... many laymen (such as licker) stumble across these 'scientific facts' and grab at them like a starving man at a loaf of bread, meanwhile the real scientists are revisiting their early assumptions, reviewing new information and reworking their theories.

[ChairmanPlough]

Ok if we don't get answers from science then where do we get them from ?
I suppose you are going to say religion, if so which one ?
Or maybe religion is not the answer, maybe you are the fountain of all knowledge ...

The answers to your questions come from within and without, from the land, the ocean,
the seasons, from the flora and fauna, mother earth, from our spirit, from the wise men,
from prophets, from fire and water, from the heart, the mind and the conscience of the soul.

[laz_e_boi]

The Moon Landings of 1969-72 were all fake - they never went to moon and have never gone back to the moon since because they can't. They didn't have the technology in the 60s, and they don't have it now to combat the radiation belts around the moon's atmosphere. (see Capricorn 1 the movie, they can’t and don’t make movies like this anymore).

My biggest problem towards believing this is why didn't the Russians call bullshit on it at the time, or eversince? The way the conspiracy describes the climate of the cold war and space race to point out the motivations to fake it till they make it actually fuels my believing that the Soviets had more reason (than anybody today at least) to discredit the US's accomplishment, and had the technology at the time to at least see and check that they actually did it.

[ChairmanPlough]

science is a consensus management process when enough members of the scientific community agree that a scientific principle exists it is validated as such ... many laymen (such as licker) stumble across these 'scientific facts' and grab at them like a starving man at a loaf of bread, meanwhile the real scientists are revisiting their early assumptions, reviewing new information and reworking their theories.

Hey Rushmore, I recall we've already had a difference of opinion on the moon landings, but nevermind, we seem to be in complete agreement on the nature of science.

The best scientists are the ones who say they are not sure, because they are smart enough to realise all the possibilities.
They know enough to realise just how little they actually know.

I think the general scientific community is always in constant danger of "groupthink" for the very reason you mentioned - the need to get consensus -
there is so much underlying pressure to get widespread agreement on a particular hypotheses or principle, to the detriment of legitimate scientific method.

[ChairmanPlough]

My biggest problem towards believing this is why didn't the Russians call bullshit on it at the time, or eversince? The way the conspiracy describes the climate of the cold war and space race to point out the motivations to fake it till they make it actually fuels my believing that the Soviets had more reason (than anybody today at least) to discredit the US's accomplishment, and had the technology at the time to at least see and check that they actually did it.

The Bolshevik revolution of 1917 was funded by American money (certain very well resourced bankers).
Following Lenins death, Stalin took the helm and continued to be funded by the same bankers. And they were allies in WW2.
The subsequent cold war was beneficial to both America and the USSR, the two great global super powers.
The so-called space-race both in America and USSR was controllled and funded by the same group of Americans.
It was not in the Soviets interest to antagonise or bite the hand that fed them.

[ChairmanPlough]

So animals evolved but humans didn't, or some anyway.
You say with certainty they didn't evolve so you must know what happened, are you going to tell us ?
So were did those lucky humans come from, outer space ?
Are you a scientologist ?

It is entirely likely that much of the world’s current flora and fauna evolved “in some form or other” over thousands even millions of years, from something that has preceded it on planet earth. I’ve openly stated that the basic notion of evolution is essentially just comon sense. The diversity of species and sub-species in the natural world is so great that it clearly lends itself to evolutionary theory “of some kind.” Perhaps 80% of species evolved, perhaps 95% of species evolved, or perhaps even 99.9%.

But humans, and possibly a very small group of other select species from the current natural world, have not evolved over tens of thousands of years, we are a quite different proposition. There is clearly a massively lower order of diversity within the human species, as compared to that found generally the natural world. What little diversity there is in humans, is essentially cultural. To put it very simply, we humans (not humanoids, but humans) have been carved or chiselled from a different “rock” to that which gave rise to the natural world.

So, if we have not evolved, we have either come from within (inside planet earth), from without (travelled from outer-space), or we were created on earth. The latter two would seem to be the most likely possibilities, wouldn’t you say.

Of course, the questions are never ending – where in space did we come from? Who or what created us in space? Who or what created us on Earth? And the same kinds of endless question can be asked of evolution, i.e, in the beginning, how did life evolve from nothing? And if we evolved from something, how did the something get here? If there was a big bang, what created the big bang? And so it goes on.

The current popular media and social theorists would have you think there is a choice to be made between: “life was and is a random chemical accident with no fundamental moral purpose” versus “life was created and designed with a moral pupose.” But they are deceiving you and themselves, because there is categorically no choice to be made, these propositions are diametrically opposed, they cannot both be right. “Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened.”

Cheers,

Ps. I feel like having a punt, a little of what you fancy does you good you know.

[ChairmanPlough]

Has Licker made a dignified retreat, I wonder? Or is he just re-loading?

[ChairmanPlough]

Another theory or proposition for you guys........

When Pontius Pilate offered amnesty or pardon to either Barabbas or Jesus, the crowd chose Barabbas - why?
The following possible answer is very interesting.

Barabbas is a Hebrew word meaning "son of the father." Jesus intentionally gave himself up to the Romans to save his son.
Barabbas, his son, had already been taken for trial and inevitable execution following some involvement in some rioting in the temples.
Jesus knew that whoever was crucified, the body would not be left on the cross, but would get taken down on the Jewish holy day, as was usual.

His son Barabbas was between 14-17 years old and not strong enough to withstand a day on the cross. So Jesus gave himself to save his son.
He took various potions and painkillers to minimise his own pending suffering on the cross. When they took him down, he was all but dead.
His mother Mary and his wife, Mary Magdelane, tended to his wounds. After three days he had recovered sufficiently and rose from his place of rest.

He went with his mother and wife to meet some of his followers, where he said: "here I am, it is me in the flesh" and he showed his wounds.
Jesus eventually made a full recovery, and went on to have several more children with Mary Magdelane. Ultimately, it has been said that he died some years later
with Mary and his children at Masada, the last remaining stronghold of the Jewish/Christian revolt against the Romans, located at the top of an isolated rock on
the edge of the Judean Desert and the Dead Sea valley.

This is a fascinating proposition, wouldn't you say.

[rushmore]

sounds pretty implausible to me, jesus was crucified, impaled with a spear and mutilated with a crowd of thorns.he wouldnt recover from those injuries in the space of three days

anyway, do you feel the need to provide an alternative narrative for every historical event? ive noticed that you put forward these outlandish explanations without any evidence whatsoever.. do you find reality boring or do you feel that your 'secret knowledge' makes you special?

[Licker]

Has Licker made a dignified retreat, I wonder? Or is he just re-loading?

No, I haven't made a dignified retreat. I just has better things to do. I was busy at work.

But you still haven't provided any sort of evidence for your views.
And belief in super natural beings is not evidence.

[ChairmanPlough]

sounds pretty implausible to me, jesus was crucified, impaled with a spear and mutilated with a crowd of thorns.he wouldnt recover from those injuries in the space of three days

anyway, do you feel the need to provide an alternative narrative for every historical event? ive noticed that you put forward these outlandish explanations without any evidence whatsoever.. do you find reality boring or do you feel that your 'secret knowledge' makes you special?

Emperor Constantine, a Roman who had converted to christianity, had a big conference where he demanded codification of
all the Christian writings, scrolls, and books into a unified volume, which ultimately would become the new testament.
Not all writings & books were included in the volume, many were excluded including the stories of Mary Magdelane.
Hence the story of Jesus the Nazarene, Christ our Lord, was "edited" by imperfect, self-interested, self-serving man - and edited big-time.
The full story has not been told.

I'm sure you don't believe the full story of any major historical event is ever told. History is written by the victors, not by the defeated.
The stories that are written down and told are never the full story.

This post is not "my" story, I have read many things over the years and had many conversations with many people. I've heard things,
and heard them again from another source. I've put 2 and 2 together and at first made five, then later I've heard something else and I've tried again.
Eventually things come together a little and at some point down the track 2+2 = 4.

I seek the truth, in that endeavour I am without prejudice, so therefore I view everything on its merits as objectively as possible.
It's has been a long journey on a winding gravel road I assure you.

If, like me, you are of a broadly Christian heritage, you may find the above theory or proposition a little confronting.
But, although it is very interesting to me, it changes nothing with respect to my beliefs.

As a child I had some difficulty comprehending why Jesus had to die on the cross, wouldn't it have been better that he lived to
spread the good news, etc, etc. And what about Mary Magdelane, who was definitely one of his followers, and was there at the cross.
Is it such a stretch to think they may have married? And, if married, they certainly would have had children.

I suppose I do find "reality" boring, because I know the reality we get stuck with is not the full story, an unfinished slated roof.
Nobody could argue otherwise on that point. I want to know the truth, I don't want one side of the story, I want the full story.
Yes, I have knowledge from study, discussion & conversation, creative expression and most all from "thought."

Occasionally, I post some of this knowledge for open discussion and debate, without any ulterior motive.

[ChairmanPlough]

No, I haven't made a dignified retreat. I just has better things to do. I was busy at work.

But you still haven't provided any sort of evidence for your views.
And belief in super natural beings is not evidence.

I don't care what anyone might say about you Licker, I think you're alright.
You crave scientific evidence, but we've already established how contextual that evidence is, always updating.
Wouldn't you rather just cut away from scientific context to the chase, and talk about the core truth.
Example: there may not be one indisputable fact in the new testament, but is it not full of truth?

[Licker]

science is a consensus management process when enough members of the scientific community agree that a scientific principle exists it is validated as such ... many laymen (such as licker) stumble across these 'scientific facts' and grab at them like a starving man at a loaf of bread, meanwhile the real scientists are revisiting their early assumptions, reviewing new information and reworking their theories.

Did you notice that you contradict yourself in your post?
Or do you mean that real scientists are just a small subgroup of the scientific community?

I have no problem admitting that as far as it comes to genetics I am a layman.
Even though I am keen to follow new studies in varied fields of science, biology was not my field of study.
And due that all I can do is to rely on the published work on that field.


Licker, its well established that behavioural traits can and often are transmitted genetically from parent to offpsring - its called epigenetics and is taught it all universities (although Im pretty sure youve never set foot in one of those!!) You really should check your facts before you mouth off like an ignorant fool.

First of all, you are wrong in that epigenetics would be taught in all universities (there are plenty of universities that don't have a biology department).
However, the university I went to definitely teaches epigenetics (and does research on it as well), but since I was there over 20 years ago, even the meaning of the term epigenetics has changed during that time.

I have already asked you to point out where it was that I said that behavioural traits cannot be transmitted genetically.
But you have not answered.

But since you seem to be an expert in epigenetics and refer to it as the study of "genetically transmitted behavioural traits", would you like to point me to a study that has been made about learned or even changed behavioural traits being inherited in humans?
I would be really interested to learn.
And also could you point out how this is relevant to my reply CM?

[Licker]

I don't care what anyone might say about you Licker, I think you're alright.
You crave scientific evidence, but we've already established how contextual that evidence is, always updating.
Wouldn't you rather just cut away from scientific context to the chase, and talk about the core truth.
Example: there may not be one indisputable fact in the new testament, but is it not full of truth?

lol, I don't care either what anyone might say about me on an anonymous forum.

I freely admit that science does not have answer to everything, but it is still the only means that we have to try to understand and to learn more about the universe we live in.
The "updating" is the essence of science, and I doubt whether we will ever have all the answers.

Core truth?
New testament?
I think it teaches many valuable moral principles, but most of those moral principles out date the new testament by centuries.

[ChairmanPlough]

lol, I don't care either what anyone might say about me on an anonymous forum.

I freely admit that science does not have answer to everything, but it is still the only means that we have to try to understand and to learn more about the universe we live in.
The "updating" is the essence of science, and I doubt whether we will ever have all the answers.

Core truth?
New testament?
I think it teaches many valuable moral principles, but most of those moral principles out date the new testament by centuries.

Well, we've covered the contextual legitimacy of science already, suffice it to say I disagree with you. Nevermind.

What do you think of my Barabbas & Jesus post above? It makes for interesting reading I think.

[Licker]

What do you think of my Barabbas & Jesus post above? It makes for interesting reading I think.

I haven't read it yet, and I'm going to bed now.
I may get back to you on that tomorrow evening.

[ChairmanPlough]

I need a cup of tea.

[AHLUNGOR]

I drop in to have a look at this thread and it is really deep man !!

Can we go back to talk about young girls, sexy milfs , big tits, fake tits, small tits, massage, body to body , HJ , bj , CBJ , BBBJ , cim , fs, sex, sex and more sex ??

I am just a simple horny old man , this, is not my cup of tea and I don't think I can even comprehend all the English !!

Cheers

[ChairmanPlough]

I drop in to have a look at this thread and it is really deep man !!

Can we go back to talk about young girls, sexy milfs , big tits, fake tits, small tits, massage, body to body , HJ , bj , CBJ , BBBJ , cim , fs, sex, sex and more sex ??

I am just a simple horny old man , this, is not my cup of tea and I don't think I can even comprehend all the English !!

Cheers

There is a lot more to the human condition, and sexual condition, than talking tits and pussies 24/7. Variety is the spice of life.
Yesterday, I happily started the Raquel Welch thread because it was fun to do so. But it's also interesting to discuss the "bigger picture" of
the human and social condition, with those who are clearly interested in doing so. Also, knowledge is power, and they say power is sexy.

[AHLUNGOR]

Also, knowledge is power, and they say power is sexy.

Didn't you tell that to Bill Clinton ??

[ChairmanPlough]

Didn't you tell that to Bill Clinton ??

You said yourself this discussion thread was not your cup of tea. So wouldn't it be better just to leave it alone
rather than attempt to change or divert this interesting discussion back to what you understand and enjoy.
There are plenty of "fun" threads out there, I started the Raquel Welch fun thread yesterday. This one is a different kind
of discussion on the human/social condition, and some find it very interesting.

[ChairmanPlough]

Licker, its well established that behavioural traits can and often are transmitted genetically from parent to offpsring - its called epigenetics and is taught it all universities (although Im pretty sure youve never set foot in one of those!!) You really should check your facts before you mouth off like an ignorant fool.

Let's keep things cordial and civil if you don't mind, we are not lower primates and therefore we don't need to resort to unsavoury insults.

Cheers...

[ChairmanPlough]

I haven't read it yet, and I'm going to bed now.
I may get back to you on that tomorrow evening.

Okally dokally, I look forward to your critique.

[lnbsydney]

how do you explain the existence of the lunar retroreflectors?

They most probably have been sent there by a remote unmanned probe... The Van Allen Radiation belt that exists between the Earth and the moon would have fried any organic life form that wasn't wearing a suit that was less than 3 feet thick in lead...

[ChairmanPlough]

They most probably have been sent there by a remote unmanned probe... The Van Allen Radiation belt that exists between the Earth and the moon would have fried any organic life form that wasn't wearing a suit that was less than 3 feet thick in lead...

Ah yes, the Van Allen Radiation belt, that was the thing I couldn't remember by name, so I referred to it as "stuff" in one of my earlier posts.
So you seem to agree with my basic proposition that the 69-72 human moon landings were fake. It's always good to hear some folk in accord.

[CunningLinguist]

Ah yes, the Van Allen Radiation belt, that was the thing I couldn't remember by name, so I referred to it as "stuff" in one of my earlier posts.
So you seem to agree with my basic proposition that the 69-72 human moon landings were fake. It's always good to hear some folk in accord.

Just to add some sanity back to this discussion read below. In the mean time I think most people have switched off because of the twisted logic and reasoning you are using CP.
CP you could probably make it as local councillor somewhere, you sure know how to twist things around.

From here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt#Implications_for_space_tr avel):


The Apollo missions marked the first event where humans traveled through the Van Allen belts, which was one of several radiation hazards known by mission planners.[25] The astronauts had low exposure in the Van Allen belts due to the short period of time spent flying through them.[26] The command module's inner structure was an aluminum "sandwich" consisting of a welded aluminium inner skin, a thermally bonded honeycomb core, and a thin aluminium "face sheet." The steel honeycomb core and outer face sheets were thermally bonded to the inner skin.

In fact, the astronauts' overall exposure was dominated by solar particles once outside the Earth's magnetic field. The total radiation received by the astronauts varied from mission to mission but was measured to be between 0.16 and 1.14 rads (1.6 and 11.4 mGy), much less than the standard of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year set by the United States Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity.[25]

So that "stuff" isn't so bad after all ...

[rushmore]

licker doesnt need, and probably doesnt want, your protection chairman. you may have started this ridiculous thread but that doesnt mean anyone elected you umpire


Let's keep things cordial and civil if you don't mind, we are not lower primates and therefore we don't need to resort to unsavoury insults.

Cheers...

[ChairmanPlough]

Just to add some sanity back to this discussion read below. In the mean time I think most people have switched off because of the twisted logic and reasoning you are using CP.
CP you could probably make it as local councillor somewhere, you sure know how to twist things around.

From here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt#Implications_for_space_tr avel):


So that "stuff" isn't so bad after all ...


I appreciate your interest in adding to the discussion, and your research efforts are admirable.
However, you are simply believng what is served up to you by the perceived authority.

I said in a previous post that, from cradle to grave, we are conditioned to trust and believe the so-called authority figures of society –
the teacher, the doctor, the boss, the government offical, the policeman, the general, the rabbi, the clergyman, the professor, the scientist, etc, etc.

The pressure to believe what you’re told, to trust and to be compliant is massively re-inforced by the mass media.
They don’t want you to think, just absorb what you’re told and respond accordingly by complying.
(nb: Pavlov’s Dogs – Lenin wanted Doctor Pavlov to update his conditioning of animals to the conditioning of people, but he refused to do it.
Others would surely take his place later on).

You’ve googled something and you believe it all hook line and sinker. That’s your perogative, but you are overly trusting.

[ChairmanPlough]

licker doesnt need, and probably doesnt want, your protection chairman. you may have started this ridiculous thread but that doesnt mean anyone elected you umpire

I simply requested cordiality and civility in the discussion, a fairly straightforward request.
Seems like you've been upset since the Barabbas/Jesus post, but like I said if that were indeed true,
it wouldn't change my spiritual beliefs, it might even strengthen them. Take it easy comrade.

[ChairmanPlough]

I did expect that the Barabbas/Jesus post would have yielded more of a response, nevermind.
It's interesting that folk get excited about the fake moon landings, because it has been popularised in the media,
but are apathetic towards a much more consequential theory, maybe there are a lot of Roman Catholics on the forum.
Back to my tea, scones and the tennis. Have a good sleep comrades. I'll be having a punt tomorrow, and well deserved.

[Licker]

I did expect that the Barabbas/Jesus post would have yielded more of a response, nevermind.
It's interesting that folk get excited about the fake moon landings, because it has been popularised in the media,
but are apathetic towards a much more consequential theory, maybe there are a lot of Roman Catholics on the forum.
Back to my tea, scones and the tennis. Have a good sleep comrades. I'll be having a punt tomorrow, and well deserved.

Do you really think that the moon landings have been popularized more than Jesus?

And with over 30,000 Christian denominations with slightly different views and interpretations do you really think we need another one?

[ChairmanPlough]

Do you really think that the moon landings have been popularized more than Jesus?

And with over 30,000 Christian denominations with slightly different views and interpretations do you really think we need another one?

I was clearly referring to the popularized conspiracy theory of the fake moon landings, as opposed to the generally
unknown, or much less known, theories regarding the possible survival of Jesus the Nazarene.
I don't think it's a question of needing to have another view, it's a question of discovering the truth.
For me, the truth is very important. As you know, I am a spiritual person, and I smile at the possibility his survival.

[Licker]

I don't think it's a question of needing to have another view, it's a question of discovering the truth.
As you know, I am a spiritual person, and I smile at the possibility his survival.

In regards to what happened to Jesus, I don't think we'll ever get to the truth of it.
And whether he survived or not, he's long gone now.

I hope you feel as strongly about the countless (thousands) others who were crucified around that time.
Let alone the millions who have been tortured and killed before and after him.

[asiafever]

In regards to what happened to Jesus, I don't think we'll ever get to the truth of it.
And whether he survived or not, he's long gone now.

I hope you feel as strongly about the countless (thousands) others who were crucified around that time.
Let alone the millions who have been tortured and killed before and after him.

I have avoided this debate to this point. Conspiracy theories interest me little, I don't accept all that is fed to me but by the same token conspiracies are often in my experience set up by people with their own agenda to push.

Having said that, as an atheist (not anti-theist) I find this article very interesting. Discounting the idea of it being anti-theistic propaganda, how does a theist weigh up this research against what you've been told and what is written in religious doctrine?


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24907-water-found-in-stardust-suggests-life-is-universal.html#.Ut76v_UzEuq

[ChairmanPlough]

In regards to what happened to Jesus, I don't think we'll ever get to the truth of it.
And whether he survived or not, he's long gone now.

I hope you feel as strongly about the countless (thousands) others who were crucified around that time.
Let alone the millions who have been tortured and killed before and after him.


This is not one of your more pertinent comments, I’m bound to say.
If he survived, then “the blood of christ” would have survived not only “in spirit”
but also “in the flesh” and his descendants may well still exist to this day. Various stories are known and
told in France in this regard, emerging most notably in the 70s.

The notion that Jesus the Nazarene is “long gone” is plainly wrong, hundreds of millions still choose to live in the light to this day.

And, as my previous posts have indicated, I have a deep interest and concern as to why tens of millions have died in
two unnecessary world wars, and why we don’t ever get the real story behind that.
It is generally estimated that about 60million people died as a consequence of ww2.
Now, why is it that no movies have been made documenting and re-telling this, over and over and over again?

Why did 100-150million Chinese die under Mao’s regime?
Why did 70million soviets die between the October Revolution in 1917 and the fall of soviet communism in 1991,
averaging about one million a year?

Why do we have to endure the tripe about “the war on terror” when we all have a much greater chance of being killed crossing the road,
or from a malfunctioning kitchen appliance?

I was hoping for a more intersting critique, but maybe you were watching the tennis as I was last night.
Well done again to Stan Wawrinka – “Stan is the Man” I hope he goes all the way.

Now for a cup of tea in preparation and readiness for my regular Wednesday punt later today, wouldn't you like to know?

[rushmore]

Licker, there’s plenty of examples. For example, there was a recent article in the Nature magazine which demonstrated that mice conditioned to fear the smell of a chemical called acetophonone passed their fear onto their offspring for at least two generations (see ‘Parental olfactory experience influences behavior and neural structure in subsequent generations’. Nature Neuroscience 17 (1): 89–96.)

My point is that yes – the confirmation of scientific principles is a consensus process. However, in many instances no sooner is a scientific principle agreed, that it is challenged, refuted and reconstructed. Science is not a sausage factory in which information is fed into a machine and elegant, definitive answers emerge from the other end. Rather, it is organic, stumbling and incremental.

Evolutionary theory is a good example. In the c19th Lamarckian evolutionary theory was the accepted orthodoxy. This was challenged and eventually gave way to Darwinian theory and by the 1940s Lamarckianism was entirely discredited. However, recent advances in the field of epigenetics have strangthened the case for 'soft inheritence' and Neo-Lamarckianism is making a comeback and challenging the scientific consensus on how physical and behavioral traits are transmitted between generations

[rushmore]

jesus was a fundamentalist jew. I find it amusing that the NAZIs would worship as a supreme being a member of the same race they described as sub human

[ChairmanPlough]

jesus was a fundamentalist jew. I find it amusing that the NAZIs would worship as a supreme being a member of the same race they described as sub human

You are quite categorically wrong on this point. He threw over the tables in the temples,
he was a monumental threat to the entire establishment. He was a revolutionary, both in thought and deed.
Your latter statement is both strange and wrong, and based on a false assumption.
And assumption is the mother or brother of all cock ups. You sound ill-at-ease comrade, "chillax" my friend.

[ChairmanPlough]

I have avoided this debate to this point. Conspiracy theories interest me little, I don't accept all that is fed to me but by the same token conspiracies are often in my experience set up by people with their own agenda to push.

Having said that, as an atheist (not anti-theist) I find this article very interesting. Discounting the idea of it being anti-theistic propaganda, how does a theist weigh up this research against what you've been told and what is written in religious doctrine?


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24907-water-found-in-stardust-suggests-life-is-universal.html#.Ut76v_UzEuq

I'm delighted at your interest in this area of discussion, particularly, as you say,
you are generally not that interested in conspiracy-related debates.
I would encourage you to openly articulate your views.
There is nothing to fear from the discovery of truth. The world awakening has already started.

[ChairmanPlough]

Licker, there’s plenty of examples. For example, there was a recent article in the Nature magazine which demonstrated that mice conditioned to fear the smell of a chemical called acetophonone passed their fear onto their offspring for at least two generations (see ‘Parental olfactory experience influences behavior and neural structure in subsequent generations’. Nature Neuroscience 17 (1): 89–96.)

My point is that yes – the confirmation of scientific principles is a consensus process. However, in many instances no sooner is a scientific principle agreed, that it is challenged, refuted and reconstructed. Science is not a sausage factory in which information is fed into a machine and elegant, definitive answers emerge from the other end. Rather, it is organic, stumbling and incremental.

Evolutionary theory is a good example. In the c19th Lamarckian evolutionary theory was the accepted orthodoxy. This was challenged and eventually gave way to Darwinian theory and by the 1940s Lamarckianism was entirely discredited. However, recent advances in the field of epigenetics have strangthened the case for 'soft inheritence' and Neo-Lamarckianism is making a comeback and challenging the scientific consensus on how physical and behavioral traits are transmitted between generations

You provide a good example, and make a very interesting and important point,
with regard to the unstable and transient nature of so-called scientific facts.

[rushmore]

No Chairman. You are*misinformed.
*
Jesus threw over the tables in the temple because the money changes plying their trade in that holy site were violating Jewish Law (Matthew 21:13). Jesus was a reactionary in the same style as Martin Luther. He was an extremely conservative and backwards-looking ultra-orthodox Jew who feared the hellenisation of his precious Judaic religion. In fact, Jesus was such a*commited and conservative Jew that he styled himself as the King of Jews (Mark 15:2) and forbade the teaching of his fundamentalist form of Judaism to all non-Jews (Matthew 10:5).
*
You seem upset. I sincerely hope this knowledge that I have imparted to you does not*unsettle your precariously constructed worldview...

[asiafever]

If we are ALL God's children, just why was Jesus so special?

[ChairmanPlough]

No Chairman. You are*misinformed.
*
Jesus threw over the tables in the temple because the money changes plying their trade in that holy site were violating Jewish Law (Matthew 21:13). Jesus was a reactionary in the same style as Martin Luther. He was an extremely conservative and backwards-looking ultra-orthodox Jew who feared the hellenisation of his precious Judaic religion. In fact, Jesus was such a*commited and conservative Jew that he styled himself as the King of Jews (Mark 15:2) and forbade the teaching of his fundamentalist form of Judaism to all non-Jews (Matthew 10:5).
*
You seem upset. I sincerely hope this knowledge that I have imparted to you does not*unsettle your precariously constructed worldview...

Not at all, I'm the last around here to get upset I assurw you....but you are talking jibberish.
I noticed before with Licker that you like to throw the first swipe or jibe to try and create some angst,
but this is a serious discussion, and I have no time for games. I have no inclination to descend to insults or swiping.
You are beginning to sound a bit like someone else around here I've noticed, but no matter.
I still encourage you to continue with the open expression of your views.

A free piece of advice comrade; don't get your info from one source, always use multiple source,
think about it all, think again, and again, and then forge your own view.

[ChairmanPlough]

If we are ALL God's children, just why was Jesus so special?

He brought the good news, he showed us that god lives in every man, he told us that we should love our neighbour.

If we seek him then we shall find. But, most of all, "Faith, hope and love...and the greatest of these is love."

[ChairmanPlough]

I'm bound to say, it is most gratifying to know that this thread is now the most popular of recent discussion threads.
We are "top of the hit parade" so to speak. Isn't it wonderful that we can have an open, frank, yet generally civil discussion
on various topics that may have quite significant influence on the human cognitive & emotive condition.
Seriously, we should all give ourselves a good pat on the back.

[CunningLinguist]

He brought the good news, he showed us that god lives in every man, he told us that we should love our neighbour.

If we seek him then we shall find. But, most of all, "Faith, hope and love...and the greatest of these is love."

Hey CP their was no love lost between you and some of us in your previous incarnations (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again). Some of us lost faith in you when we found out you threatened some members you would tell their employers about what they posted on the forum. Some of us hope you have reformed your ways. The greatest thing we love to see is when you get banned ... :)

[rushmore]

haha, everytime you are confronted with cold, hard facts which disprove one of your conspiracy theory you sidestep the argument and accuse the other person of being naive or misinformed. Go to the back of the class!

[asiafever]

He brought the good news, he showed us that god lives in every man, he told us that we should love our neighbour.

If we seek him then we shall find. But, most of all, "Faith, hope and love...and the greatest of these is love."

I think my joke was lost somehow..

[rushmore]

He brought the good news, he showed us that god lives in every man, he told us that we should love our neighbour.

Jesus: "Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34)

In my experience Christians know very little about the bible. Im an athiest but have read that book and studied it comprehensively. I enjoy nothing more than confounding jesus worshippers with the text of their own scriptures!!!

[flamingmoose]

Jesus: "Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34)

In my experience Christians know very little about the bible. Im an athiest but have read that book and studied it comprehensively. I enjoy nothing more than confounding jesus worshippers with the text of their own scriptures!!!

Ahh the old quote out of context and presented in a way to be taken literally*...yep that's confounding... :P

(* Despite the fact the quoter abhors fundamentalism him/herself...) :/

[CunningLinguist]

I think my joke was lost somehow..

We all see what we want to see, and read what we want to read, CP just tries a little bit harder ... :)

[ChairmanPlough]

Jesus: "Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth: I came not to bring peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34)

In my experience Christians know very little about the bible. Im an athiest but have read that book and studied it comprehensively. I enjoy nothing more than confounding jesus worshippers with the text of their own scriptures!!!

Quite some time ago on this thread, I mentioned how Emperor Constantine (a converted christian) held a conference to codify
all the information - scrolls, books and scripts regarding Jesus the Nazarene. Many scrolls and books were left out of the final
compendium, (including those of Mary Magdelane) so, very obviously indeed, the finalised first edition was highly edited.
Hence, to quote from the good book, withouting fully realising just how edited it was, is patent folly - you have to understand what
you're quoting in the particular context in which it was written. Also, I previously stated that there may not be one indisputable fact
in the new testament, nevertheless it is still overflowing with the truth. You need to critique me on what I have said, not what you
want me to have said.

[ChairmanPlough]

Ah yes, I see the ravens have descended upon this discussion.
Unable to contribute meaningfully to the intellectually demanding debate,
and unwilling to leave the discussion to those who can,
they ready themselves for the swiping, the jibing, and the insults - a very low
level to which they are well accustomed.

On the one hand, I can say to you ugly creatures, "get thee behind me satan."
And, on the other, I realise how intrigued you are when the light is shown to you.
Is it not true that the ugliest of moths, those that live in the dark,
are highly attracted to the light.

So, I say this: do not get behind me, but come to the light and see all that there is to be seen.

[ChairmanPlough]

Ahh the old quote out of context and presented in a way to be taken literally*...yep that's confounding... :P

(* Despite the fact the quoter abhors fundamentalism him/herself...) :/

Well said.....I look forward to several more intelligent comments from you on any various aspects of this thread.

[Milf_Man]

I think my joke was lost somehow..

I heard that joke from Jimmy Carr once.

Didn't find it particularly funny, unlike some of his other material.

[CunningLinguist]

Ah yes, I see the ravens have descended upon this discussion.
Unable to contribute meaningfully to the intellectually demanding debate,
and unwilling to leave the discussion to those who can,
they ready themselves for the swiping, the jibing, and the insults - a very low
level to which they are well accustomed.

On the one hand, I can say to you ugly creatures, "get thee behind me satan."
And, on the other, I realise how intrigued you are when the light is shown to you.
Is it not true that the ugliest of moths, those that live in the dark,
are highly attracted to the light.

So, I say this: do not get behind me, but come to the light and see all that there is to be seen.

Or we could shine the light on you :)

[asiafever]

I heard that joke from Jimmy Carr once.

Didn't find it particularly funny, unlike some of his other material.

Then I would put it to you that either you didn't understand the context of the joke or it cut too close to the bone.

You see, maybe, just maybe, when Jesus declared himself the son of god, he really didn't mean it literally, he meant it that we are ALL the children of god, no different from he, that he was just a man, no more or less, and the joke is that a whole religion has been made out of this literal taking of a metaphorical statement. As chairman states earlier, so much of the bible has been altered that really we can not accept it is an historical document yet many do, so many of the stories we learned as children were actually first seen in other religions (The story of the great flood and Noah's ark actually appeared first in Greek Mythology as the story of Deucalion. The very fact we celebrate Christmas and Easter in accordance with the pagan holidays of Rome at the time is another example, Jesus was not born in December nor was his crucifixion during the spring equinox. Both the birth of Jesus and his death on a cross were in fact seen in other religions predating Christianity.There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected saviours.
The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day too, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. Even as late as the 4th century AD, the sol invictus, associated with Mithras, was the last great pagan cult the church had to overcome. Dionysus was a divine child, resurrected by his grandmother. Dionysus also brought his mum, Semele, back to life.)

I have read the bible, quran, Buddhist texts, visited shrines, synagogues, and holy places of all sorts, spoken with people of so many different religions, including a fascinating guy who was a scientologist who spoke with me candidly about his beliefs, I studied ancient history and the mythology surrounding it, funnily enough everyone I spoke to all claimed to believe in the one 'truth'. It was not an overnight decision for me to reach that I do not believe in any of it. I searched and came up with a conclusion based on the evidence placed before me, that is that we seek to fill a void in our lives with an omnipotent being of some kind, that we do not wish to take responsibility for our own lives and fate, yet that is the true meaning of life, we are born, we live and we die, and when we die all that we have achieved or not is entirely our own doing. There are no mystical forces at work, all the praying in the world will not change anything, rather action is the only way change can be brought about. There are good people, there are bad people.

Chairman spoke earlier of the rumour that Jesus lived out his life etc, which to me further dents the credibility of Christianity and yes can imagine such facts to be covered up, it would men there was nothing divine about him at all, just that he was a decent bloke who wanted people to love each other and do the right thing, a bit like Gandhi. In a few centuries, will people view Gandhi as a deity and worship him?

Anyhow, truth is, we will NEVER know. Ever. Belief is just that, and no one persons belief should require that others believe the same, that seems to be where most of the trouble in the world lies at present...

[asiafever]

Oh and interestingly, a great deal of the buddhists I spoke to were very quick to point out Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion... I found that quite telling..

[wilisno]

Oh and interestingly, a great deal of the buddhists I spoke to were very quick to point out Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion... I found that quite telling..
Yep ! Blind faith and superstition are impure forms of Buddhism, derived from Daoism !

[CunningLinguist]

Then I would put it to you that either you didn't understand the context of the joke or it cut too close to the bone.

You see, maybe, just maybe, when Jesus declared himself the son of god, he really didn't mean it literally, he meant it that we are ALL the children of god, no different from he, that he was just a man, no more or less, and the joke is that a whole religion has been made out of this literal taking of a metaphorical statement. As chairman states earlier, so much of the bible has been altered that really we can not accept it is an historical document yet many do, so many of the stories we learned as children were actually first seen in other religions (The story of the great flood and Noah's ark actually appeared first in Greek Mythology as the story of Deucalion. The very fact we celebrate Christmas and Easter in accordance with the pagan holidays of Rome at the time is another example, Jesus was not born in December nor was his crucifixion during the spring equinox. Both the birth of Jesus and his death on a cross were in fact seen in other religions predating Christianity.There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected saviours.
The Sumerian goddess Inanna, or Ishtar, was hung naked on a stake, and was subsequently resurrected and ascended from the underworld. One of the oldest resurrection myths is Egyptian Horus. Born on 25 December, Horus and his damaged eye became symbols of life and rebirth. Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day too, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. Even as late as the 4th century AD, the sol invictus, associated with Mithras, was the last great pagan cult the church had to overcome. Dionysus was a divine child, resurrected by his grandmother. Dionysus also brought his mum, Semele, back to life.)

I have read the bible, quran, Buddhist texts, visited shrines, synagogues, and holy places of all sorts, spoken with people of so many different religions, including a fascinating guy who was a scientologist who spoke with me candidly about his beliefs, I studied ancient history and the mythology surrounding it, funnily enough everyone I spoke to all claimed to believe in the one 'truth'. It was not an overnight decision for me to reach that I do not believe in any of it. I searched and came up with a conclusion based on the evidence placed before me, that is that we seek to fill a void in our lives with an omnipotent being of some kind, that we do not wish to take responsibility for our own lives and fate, yet that is the true meaning of life, we are born, we live and we die, and when we die all that we have achieved or not is entirely our own doing. There are no mystical forces at work, all the praying in the world will not change anything, rather action is the only way change can be brought about. There are good people, there are bad people.

Chairman spoke earlier of the rumour that Jesus lived out his life etc, which to me further dents the credibility of Christianity and yes can imagine such facts to be covered up, it would men there was nothing divine about him at all, just that he was a decent bloke who wanted people to love each other and do the right thing, a bit like Gandhi. In a few centuries, will people view Gandhi as a deity and worship him?

Anyhow, truth is, we will NEVER know. Ever. Belief is just that, and no one persons belief should require that others believe the same, that seems to be where most of the trouble in the world lies at present...

Have you read the DaVinci code .... :)

[ChairmanPlough]

The Jesus/Barabbas debate would seem to have been hi-jacked by the ravens and
the modicums - always psychologically locked-in to their "facebook" style of debating.
Rather than starting their own interesting threads, they dilute the arguments here.

Well, no matter. One thing can be said for certain; the truth is not contextual, it cannot be changed,
and try as you might to dilute or pollute the truth with desperately ill-informed opinion,
it will always remain unchanged. This is well-worth remembering in the current, floundering scientific &
technological age.

Now then, very little has been said regarding 100-150 million who died under Mao's regime in China.
I'm sure many of you guys would have some allegiance, or perhaps not as the case may be,
to Mao, who committed the most despicable act of the 20th century.

This is something, again, we hear very little of these heady days of the global economy.

Ps. I see this thread is a clear first on the forum's hit parade for recently viewed threads.
People clearly want the truth, even here, still they seek the truth. How wonderful.

[Boney]

Well, no matter. One thing can be said for certain; the truth is not contextual, it cannot be changed,
and try as you might to dilute or pollute the truth with desperately ill-informed opinion,
it will always remain unchanged. This is well-worth remembering in the current, floundering scientific &
technological age.

Confucius Says "Truth is a Time Variable"

[Licker]

"You want the Truth? You can't handle the Truth! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

[Guymartin420]

See kurasowa's "Rashomon". Truth is always subjective.

[ChairmanPlough]

"You want the Truth? You can't handle the Truth! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo

It seems to me, I'm one of the few who can handle the truth around her....
but this, of course, is not news to me.

[ChairmanPlough]

See kurasowa's "Rashomon". Truth is always subjective.

This is a very quaint and convenient notion I'm bound to say.
Think about it, on this entirely false basis, everyone can derive their own reality and truth.
Reality and truth becomes simply the product of opinion and the re-affirmation of that opinion.
How incredibly convenient for us, to be able to abrogate the responsibility of our morality and conscience.
This mentality led to 100-150million Chinese being killed under Mao's regime, and 70million murdered soviets
between 1917 and the fall of the USSR in 1991.

It is monumentally dangerous to believe there is no sacred moral truth and or reality.
In fact, the notion that truth is contextual/subjective is corrupt pseudo philosophy of the lowest order.

[Sextus]

I've only seen "the Last Temptation of Christ" once years ago, with William Defoe as Christ, and I thought it was an exceptionally good film. A second viewing would be even better than the first I think, there is much more to mine from that film, it is one of those films that enable that.

This thread is one of the few keeping the spam at bay at the moment!

[Licker]

It seems to me, I'm one of the few who can handle the truth around her....
but this, of course, is not use to me.

I wasn't talking directly at you! Did you notice the quotes?

Watch the clip. (You probably have seen it before)

Both of the principal characters are talking about the same incident (the truth).

Based on their previous experiences and the role in life, they have different interpretation on what is justified and perceive the incident in different light.
So is the truth that he (Nicholson) was guilty or not?

[Sextus]

Based on their previous experiences and the role in life, they have different interpretation on what is justified and perceive the incident in different light. So is the truth that he (Nicholson) was guilty or not?

That is why they attempt to write the law down in black and white. A judge can only try a specific incident according to that law - he can't try it on an individual's motivational context.

[Licker]

That is why they attempt to write the law down in black and white. A judge can only try a specific incident according to that law - he can't try it on an individual's motivational context.

Yes, but have you noticed that what is black in some countries / cultures is white in others?

[Sextus]

he can't try it on an individual's motivational context.

Except in the case of self-defence of course!

Ah, licker, I'm afraid I'm on uninformed ground about those particular nuances of countries and cultures. Then there is a military culture too, that the film was dealing with. Thought provoking film for sure. I love the way the opening massed gun acrobatics visually show the unanimity of mind of military culture - one that can also bring them undone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjLyz8OAj1s

(Watch full screen)

[Bigfoot]

Thought I'd add a couple to do heads in.

1st off.

the Moon landings- Very real. The Irony and you only see how real if you see the Rockets in Florida in person. BIG BIG DICKS - I mean Massive dicks (it's a sex site) Bloody huge and mostly Tanks Fuel tanks.
The other part of it is the advancement from that to Space shuttle to Iphones. Anyone who has worked in Aerospace knows the tech came from NASA. So you wouldn't have A380's and all the rest with out especially the shrinking of the microchip - they started it.

IN doing so they also Proved 90% of the scientific theories every created before hand. This is why if you look at who develops a lot of these FAKE - Items- They always lead back to one main group of people - Religious Factions. A lot to do with both the Catholic church and in recent times Our friends in the Islamic followings. If you look up who puts together the claims of - oh look at the flag it's fake it's moving etc. You find in some cases it goes back to a church group. The one that put me onto it. Was a Sydney Greek orthodox priest who said to a group of Sunday school children. "I should it's a American Lie about landing on the moon but see this mobile phone, When I was small boy on the islands we used pigeons, Now I can speak to anyone in the world I let you children decide" 3 months later the Head of the church tried to kick him out but the locals in that area are very modern and not stupid.

Then you have your JFK thing- Russia etc.
JFK's problem was he trying to take America forward where others wanted control.
One needs to take look at the materials required to Build these wonders or the world the US - Saturn space rockets SR-71 All used Titanium and other rare metals a lot of it came from Russia. the CIA build spy planes from the same country they some how get majority of the special metals from and then it's only 1-2 years latter or less those nations or under the USSR are building there own.
His death stink but at the same time, is it really surprise a certain clan of people in power and money would do similar. George W Bush is perfect example of Who really runs the united states.

Get to 9-11. Anyone who knows about the Aero industry knows the Hi-Jackings aren't new. we had them in the 60's 70's and 80's. Yet NO one did anything about even putting a lock on the cockpit door. Many a trainee asked this question before September 11 in training. I was at Qantas training in the 90's Asked the same thing Why not put lock in. The answer was - How heavy is a lock and bullet proof door - "50Kg" Okay that's 50Kgs you have to add weight and burn fuel for. ? Yes. Airlines don't do that for COST.
If there is no regulation (EG NOT RED TAPE ) They do what ever they can to save Money. Reason they make you pay when you go over your baggage weight allowed. Or make you pay if you buy that cheap seat. They upsized the average passenger from 70KG's to I think it's 90KG now.
So to make extra say $10,000 they WILL. Sound familiar. hmm maybe every other transport disaster in the modern era where cost cutting is involved.
OLD disasters were because we were pushing the limits - Cast Iron bridges - didn't know about stress. We learn we go to rot iron and arch ways and cables. resonance frequency bang bridge go down we learn.
A bunch of Radicles take planes - airports - Nah we won't add more security locks - or personal checks. Athens airport still as safe as it was?.
Why - Because rich men won't make money.

You don't find the full hidden why happenings any more you get only one issue now.

Where is the rich man making money. Every now and then they get a bit caught out but then they find a way to win. Always some stooge willing to make sure that the rest of the little people are even more bewildered.

Before the Vietnam war. Heroin Addiction and drug addiction per population was low in both USA and Australia. Post the war it skyrocketed. in the early 80's cocaine was a hidden Gem of a drug, It becomes a massive problem when the middle and low class get it . Oh we need to do something about it ? Send troops - investigate. Yet if you knew it was coming from these areas' why Allow more into your country ? Why Minimal Opposition to These refugees and the governments at the time being Conservative types ?
If you follow the American liberals thinking well the Republicans and those Tea party 1%'s want all of the lower middle to be brain washed on the TV - Movies and other items so you can work for cheap and clean the houses and just feed them the drugs so they don't have dependency on those who they work for.

Here in Aus we have Ms Piggy but she is just starting to get her hands on the media and the like.

What I like is we have Prime Minister who in overseas and talks about Domestic issues not International.

the biggest conspiracy we can get going is really Craig Thompson's Credit card - seriously what a shit punter he was. Didn't any one teach him CASH ONLY.
I guess it just shows the transparency and red tape keeps us a bit safer then them yanks.


I still think the best Question for the Southern Pacific ocean is How in Bed is NZ with the USA with that satellite/radio dish they have.
I remember listening to local ins Broken hill - Port Pire - Alice springs all on about oh one time all these army trucks and some with USA flags on them ripped up late at night in town. They were up to something. ?
Funny thing again - twice in those pubs the Men who told me not listen to there stories - Both invited me to Church?

[Sextus]

Bigfoot that was a spectacular post! You covered an encyclopaedia's worth of ground! Very entertaining stuff. I'm still picking my jaw up off the ground. :D :D

[asiafever]

On the Diana conspiracy theory - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4meFC1ee7Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
On the moon landing conspiracy theory - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[asiafever]

On the alien conspiracies - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59zLZ6PpeSA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[ChairmanPlough]

It's very gratifying to this thread had generated a very good level of interest - top of the hit parade by a country mile.

There can be differences of opinion and perspective, but I think one thing is beyond dispute;
beneath (or even transcending) the common place - paying the bills, tv shows, films, interest rates, cricket scores, favourite punt etc, etc,
there is another world which is largely (but not totally) beyond our sphere of interest and influence, which controls everything that happens
within fairly wide yet rigid parameters.

Fortunately however, I would go further from my own perspective, to say there is another sacred reality that transcends this controlling world.
It is spiritual, but not fundamentalist, and it is categorically not fantasy or fairytale. The human species has lost its way a little, but the winds
of change all blowing and the search for sacred truth has begun again.

Have a great week comrades.

[asiafever]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:"Fortunately however, I would go further from my own perspective, to say there is another sacred reality that transcends this controlling world.It is spiritual, but not fundamentalist, and it is categorically not fantasy or fairytale. The human species has lost its way a little, but the windsof change all blowing and the search for sacred truth has begun again."

Good luck with that...

[Licker]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:"Fortunately however, I would go further from my own perspective, to say there is another sacred reality that transcends this controlling world.It is spiritual, but not fundamentalist, and it is categorically not fantasy or fairytale. The human species has lost its way a little, but the windsof change all blowing and the search for sacred truth has begun again."

Good luck with that...

Yep, they can start looking for their precious truth: youtube My precious! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8)

[ChairmanPlough]

Yep, they can start looking for their precious truth: youtube My precious! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8)

So you've taken up acting Licker, well if the cap fits one can choose to wear it, but does the role stretch your talents?
Still, I encourage you to return again, and again, to the enlightened path, I already know you are intrigued.

[ChairmanPlough]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:"Fortunately however, I would go further from my own perspective, to say there is another sacred reality that transcends this controlling world.It is spiritual, but not fundamentalist, and it is categorically not fantasy or fairytale. The human species has lost its way a little, but the windsof change all blowing and the search for sacred truth has begun again."

Good luck with that...

Thanks for your good luck wishes.....by the way, when quoting someone you should give credit to the person
who made the original statement.

But, no matter, I'm sure this was a mere oversight on your part.
I certainly welcome your civility and the considered posts you make on this thread.
Though, of course, I'm probably seldom in agreement with you.

[ChairmanPlough]

Good to hear Abbott taking a hefty swipe at the ABC today.
Just like the BBC in UK, the ABC has descended over the last few years
into defending and promoting every minority, and minority view, to the detriment
of the overall entire nation that was once known, at least, as Australia.
The erosion of values, traditions, gender roles, national pride & identity by the ABC
is a disgrace, especially using taxpayers money. Worse still, it is very dangerous
to the well-being of the fabric of society.

[ChairmanPlough]

Good to hear Abbott taking a hefty swipe at the ABC today.
Just like the BBC in UK, the ABC has descended over the last few years
into defending and promoting every minority, and minority view, to the detriment
of the overall entire nation that was once known, at least, as Australia.
The erosion of values, traditions, gender roles, national pride & identity by the ABC
is a disgrace, especially using taxpayers money. Worse still, it is very dangerous
to the well-being of the fabric of society.

Is there no permissive pussy-whipped lefty who wants to cross literary swords on this viewpoint?
Do you all think the ABC is doing a fantastic job? I'll bet Tanya "the Pleb" from labour thinks so.
She's gotta be the most pathetically "on message pc" politician going around. You wouldn't want
to rely on her in a crisis, she'd be organising a series of workshops to find the optimum outcome.
Leadership seems dead, or at least in deep hibernation, on the left side of Australian politics.

[AHLUNGOR]

I the subject of Tony Abbott, did anyone saw the citizenship ceremony on ABC on Australia Day in Canberra??

Pretty standard boring stuff until an elderly American lady whose on a wheelchair got up on stage to receive her citizenship certificate from Tony, as her wheelchair was pushed by her carer towards Tony , she opened her arm to look for an embrace from the PM, Tony came forward, lean down to try to give the lady a hug, but he was too tall for that, so Tony Abbott got down on one knee to embrace the lady!

And when they turned around for the photo, Tony remained down on his knees for the lady so that they are the same height for the photo.

To me, that's a golden moment and I am very pleased that Tony Abbott is our Prime Minister ！

Just my two cents

Cheers

[ChairmanPlough]

You appear to be a lone voice in this thread so I'll chip in.

In regard to Tanya, she may be a politically correct bleeding heart liberal but as someone who lives in her electorate I can assure you that in this sense she closely reflects her constituency which probably goes a long way toward explaining her success in the recent election.

Im going to take a wild guess and say you live in the outer western suburbs of sydney, amiright?

I live on the affluent lower northshore, this is where the educated right-wingers reside. The stereotypes you
employ to categorise folk is very much part of the class politics employed by you bleeding heart shrivel dicks lefties.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the left smashed at the last general election - so much for Tanya's success.
Her, and people like her, are taking Labour into a political abyss, very similar to the nsw labour left.
Essentially, she's not overly bright, it's all about process amd ticking off the boxes with her and her like.
A once proud, capable and very effective party, under both Hawke and Keating, has become a talking shop for every
piss-weak minority opinion and movement going around. There's a complete and total lack of leadership, nevermind they
can conduct a few more workshops and get all the "policy answers" they need.

[ChairmanPlough]

I the subject of Tony Abbott, did anyone saw the citizenship ceremony on ABC on Australia Day in Canberra??

Pretty standard boring stuff until an elderly American lady whose on a wheelchair got up on stage to receive her citizenship certificate from Tony, as her wheelchair was pushed by her carer towards Tony , she opened her arm to look for an embrace from the PM, Tony came forward, lean down to try to give the lady a hug, but he was too tall for that, so Tony Abbott got down on one knee to embrace the lady!

And when they turned around for the photo, Tony remained down on his knees for the lady so that they are the same height for the photo.

To me, that's a golden moment and I am very pleased that Tony Abbott is our Prime Minister ！

Just my two cents

Cheers

Well said Ahlungor......

[AHLUNGOR]

Well said Ahlungor......

There you go, our Prime Minister down on one knee to have a photo with the new Australian Citizens. A down to earth Public Servant no less !!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Be3oY0QCUAAXBel.jpg


And earlier on stage, Tony was on his knees to embrace the lady in the wheelchair !


http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/140126/2114783_20140126_abbott_1280x720-19e8t0q.jpg?x=656&sig=DN3FeEuIYFoiGD.0nc8ibA--

[Bigfoot]

Well I hate to there but why NOT.

1st off- This site would not have it's FANS or Any of you being relaxed about what we do it the Rightwing Christians and Tea party lowers and those who want to rule you like a god types had there way. Except of course we all know DEEP DOWN THEY ARE DIRTY CHEATING HOOKER FUCKING BASTARDS LIKE THE REST OF US. Except they go to church with the paid wife and pretend it's okay. Or Grab a little boy and bend him over.

I might be considered a ALP person but to them I am considered a Evil person because I don't believe in Civil rights for all. I believe in Big government because I have seen how small government is easily manipulated into working for the well off and providing little for the rest. unfortunately at the same time someone has to be more well off then then the rest which is why in some cases I aren't popular with the bleeding heart types.

The ALP has let there traditional people down buy many things IMO first mistake was when they said they will try and get 50% women - okay shit more bitches in this country then Males but most are Fucking useless. Most just want to watch Ellen and pop babies out. Those that can and want to work let them. But what happened to the BEST person. Not the who is going to fit out rules or Image.
WE all have horror Union stories and Fantastic victories over mega corporations. But the ALP hasn't kept them in LINE.
But when one side is funded by Big Business for there advantages well Your going to expect some turn of a blind eye for the other mods funders.

IMO the biggest fuck up in Our history has been tow party's - 1st - Meg Lees and her Democrats will for ever and should be for the GST and so should the majority of Dicks who allowed them in the first place. Another big of proof a Women can't do a mans job. Proves too a Man will fuck you UP LOL
The 2nd is the GREENS' the fuckers FUCK there WHOLE AGENDA over being FAGOTS and BOB BROWN.
K-RUDD gave them the best they could get for both Business and Environment reform and Carbon price.
We could be with Europe looking good. Home owners could afford to moderately upgrade to cleaner energy's without huge costs over TIME. Not if you have money it's okay you can laugh at everyone else and if your not just pay excess. Because it's always going to go up.
But no BOB BROWN and his faggot men of greens Oh NO - conscious vote for Fag rights wasn't enough WE WANT MORE. We want to send business into a uncompetitive area first, Just So we can feel we Got a Victory.

SO IMO any time anyone says OH climate, change it's Labors fault. NO it's ALWAYS THOSE FUCKING GREENS AND THE GAY AND LESBIAN REMMED ASSHOLES.

I am green person - But I am also realist and know I won't drive A Prius - I'll drive Tesla S - OR Lexus Hybrid. Super Diesel. But I won't fuckin bike ride to work and Eat fucking salad and tofu. Nothing wrong with Making everything efficient, You just can't expect people to do it over night. It's always a sliding scale. The incline can't be steep other wise you remove the ability to climb the scale.
Now those fucking Greens are going to Find a Massive Cliff at the bottom. If you don't believe in Climate change you won't worry. IF you do You know the longer without trying to slow /reverse it it's worse and had to do so. But Of course They don't get it Just like Asylum seekers. Sure there is a silly UN Item we joined and in fact started and it mostly came from the end of world war two for the Jews.


But would the rest of the world who is ALSO having issue with These Financial Refugees, They aren't coming from a current WAR. They fly to Indonesia first. Would the rest of the world HATE US so much if we said we are not longer going to take refugees ? Would other Nations follow? Maybe the French - UK - (they love them Black African's coming over ) the USA - hmm Chinese on one side - Mexicans on the other and South Americans on another, Of course for the Yanks they wouldn't want to loose there Cheap staff- House keepers - Maids - drivers ?


SO what does it mean for most of US WHO GIVES A FUCK.
GEN Y doesn't so much So Follow them and home someone else will clean up.
SO lets be Tony Manero and say FUCK the Future and Go down to the Disco - Or your favourite Location :cool2:
And Party like the Rebel Alliance has one again.

[Sextus]

Another outstanding post bigfoot - eloquent, raw and honest. Thanks mate, a great read!

[CunningLinguist]

I reckon Bigfoot should start his own panel style chat show!

[ChairmanPlough]

ALP didnt do well in the recent federal election but tanya did, she bucked the trend.

I live in newtown. according to the census this postcode has one of the highest levels of tertiary attainment in the country.

also, your ad hominem attacks (shrivel dick etc) do you no favours. you dont sound educated at all

It doesn't surprise me that you live in Newtown, though I didn't jump to that stereotype unlike you, in your initial post,
with regard to where you thought I might live. I would have thought a rudimentary viewing of this thread instigated by
my goodself would have shown you what I'm about, and where I am cognitively speaking. But, no matter.

I'm very happy to regard "pc, tolerant bleeding heart, permissive/progressive? lefties" as immasculated shrivel dicks,
because that is how I consider you.

You're not well-educated in any meaningful sense (degrees are almost given away with breakfast cereals these days), you just
spew out your permissive/progressive dogma. You folk make a lot of noise with your perpetual whining, then you get smashed
in the general election, and all you can do is continue to whine. Hawke and Keating were both great Labour men, and I mean
great men of stature, and I'm on the right-wing if you hadn't noticed.

Now what have you got? Bill "I love Union pussy" Shorten and Tanya "the pc process is everything" Pleb. That's gotta be
the most lightweight political leadership in Australian political history. The pc feminisation of labour is destroying it, look at it
with objective impartiality, not with your ideological blinkers. The ghetto-isation of labour will obviously lead to some incumbent
MPs getting inflated results, as some like-minded folk flock to their constituency, whilst the majority of other MPs whither on the vine.

[ChairmanPlough]

There you go, our Prime Minister down on one knee to have a photo with the new Australian Citizens. A down to earth Public Servant no less !!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Be3oY0QCUAAXBel.jpg


And earlier on stage, Tony was on his knees to embrace the lady in the wheelchair !


http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/140126/2114783_20140126_abbott_1280x720-19e8t0q.jpg?x=656&sig=DN3FeEuIYFoiGD.0nc8ibA--

Great stuff Ahlungor......is this me saying this?......well yes indeed it is.....

[Licker]

I bet that Juliar would have given her a hug as well, just for the photo op.

And then stabbed her in the back.

[ChairmanPlough]

out of curiosity, what makes you assume Im an alp supporter or even a left winger?

so they give uni degrees away these days huh? you sound pretty defensive

Anyone who gives a full-name (true or not) on the forum has got to be a bit dodgy in some sense or other -
couldn't you think of something interesting?

I have more than one university degree, but I don't want to be too specific on this forum,
and yes I got them when having a degree meant something.

You should watch the news more often, lecturers have resigned because they were instructed to
lower the pass grades for international students. Such students essentially think they are buying a degree,
not working for a degree. If they don't get "passed" they kick up a big stink, and threaten that the flow of
subsequent students will dry up. Embassies and ambassadors get involved, etc, etc.

The commercialization of universities has unfortunately devalued them badly.
All universities are involved, and if a lecturer complains about the lowering standards he gets moved along, or
overlooked at the next pay review. "Comply or fuck-off" is the basic management view.
The pressure for profit rides roughshod over everything else.

Wake up, smell the roses, standards are falling everywhere, and across the full smorgasboard of life.

[CunningLinguist]

Like Richard Le Rod, for example??

I think you just nailed (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) him ... :-)

[ChairmanPlough]

See kurasowa's "Rashomon". Truth is always subjective.

If someone cam along and shot you dead in the head, heaven forbid of course, what would
be the subjective truth of the outcome? Would it be any different from the objective truth?
These silly expressions like "truth is subjective" from pseudo philosophers are meaningless and worthless.

We can all interpret in ways that our intelligence and wisdom allows, but simply because five people
have five interpretations of the same event, does not equate to there being five truths. What it means
is that one person had the correct view, whereas the other views were tainted by self-interest and ideology.

Again, it's so gratifying to have some truly interesting discussions regarding the human condition, bravo to one and all.
(well most anyway).

[ChairmanPlough]

I've only seen "the Last Temptation of Christ" once years ago, with William Defoe as Christ, and I thought it was an exceptionally good film. A second viewing would be even better than the first I think, there is much more to mine from that film, it is one of those films that enable that.

This thread is one of the few keeping the spam at bay at the moment!

He's a fine actor, William Defoe. Although I'm sure Sextus can perform too, when the mood strikes.
But that's a different story altogether. Good of you to acknowledge the importance of this thread
in combatting the over zealous spam merchants, but Sextus, I'm sure we both believe in "each to their own" aye.

[ChairmanPlough]

Like Richard Le Rod, for example??

But I would consider this "nom de plume" or pseudonym as quite theatrical and inteteresting.
Somewhat different to "Alex Chau." But no matter, each to their own, one must be even-handed on such things.

[ChairmanPlough]

I think you just nailed (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) him ... :-)

This reminds me of an earlier aspect of this thread. You have inadvertantly made a contribution.
The Jews & Romans "nailed" the great Nazarene to a cross, but he rose again, both in the flesh
and in spirit. It would seem that the truth and the light cannot be denied.

Thankyou for your contribution.

Ps. Do you have any view on the 100-150 million killed under Mao's regime?

[ChairmanPlough]

Psuedo philosophers? ... such as kierkegaard, wittgenstein and focault?

hey I wish you'd stop praising everyone in this thread for their 'intelligent discussion', you sound like a patronising twat. To be frank your contribution to the discusssion is the least interesting, least intellectual and least informed lol!!

You have such delicate sensibilities and thus are much too quick to use unpleasant language.
Something has no doubt narked you and you seem intent on swiping.
You are beginning to sound like one of the ravens. No matter.

But I much prefer not to engage in that lower end stuff, so I won't.

Nevertheless, I do encourage you to make meaningful contributions when you are able. Good luck.

[ChairmanPlough]

Alex Chau is definitely the best pseudonym on AUS99 (you jumped to the conclusion earlier that this is my actual name - it isn't) I doubt you know who Alex Chau is and I honestly cant be bothered to explain

Dear fellow, I did nothing of the kind, I clearly said: "true or not" with reference to your pseudonym.

Besides, I have no interest whatsoever in who you, or he, is or was, so many thanks to you for not explaining.

Now then, do you have any comment or contribution regarding the 100-150 million Chinese killed under Mao's regime?
This particular topic is part of the interesting discussion thread, and it would be good to get your view.

[ChairmanPlough]

Confucius Says "Truth is a Time Variable"

But was, and is, Confucius rather over-rated on this, I mean the expression could equally
and more accurately be applied to science, ie..."Science is a time variable."

It's an interesting point of debate nevertheless.

[ChairmanPlough]

I bet that Juliar would have given her a hug as well, just for the photo op.

And then stabbed her in the back.

Nice one, very incisive of you Licker, getting to the core of the matter.
And Penny Wong & Tanya the Pleb would be discussing in a workshop
the best possible outcome for all concerned....hahaha.

[ChairmanPlough]

I wasn't talking directly at you! Did you notice the quotes?

Watch the clip. (You probably have seen it before)

Both of the principal characters are talking about the same incident (the truth).

Based on their previous experiences and the role in life, they have different interpretation on what is justified and perceive the incident in different light.
So is the truth that he (Nicholson) was guilty or not?

As previously stated, if someone came along and shot you dead, heaven forbid, would the
subjective truth of the outcome be any different from the objective reality or truth. We both
know the answer. Just because people find it comforting to create their own interpretation or
rationalisation of any given event, this doesn't equate to the hard truth being changed at all,
not in any way, shape or form.

[Max Impact]

You should work for one of the agencies ChairmanPlough.

I get the feeling you would be good at monotonously typing "Bookings Welcome".

[CunningLinguist]

You should work for one of the agencies ChairmanPlough.

I get the feeling you would be good at monotonously typing "Bookings Welcome".

You broke CP's run of 5 consecutive posts for the auss9 2014 Logie for most pathetic attempt to sustain a thread (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?40128-aus99-Logies-2014)
But I'm glad you did as your joke was worth it!

[ChairmanPlough]

You should work for one of the agencies ChairmanPlough.

I get the feeling you would be good at monotonously typing "Bookings Welcome".

For someone who appears unable to make a meaningful contribution to the thread,
it would seem you do still spend too much time surfing in the thread.
A moth attracted to the light, perhaps.

[ChairmanPlough]

You broke CP's run of 5 consecutive posts for the auss9 2014 Logie for most pathetic attempt to sustain a thread (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?40128-aus99-Logies-2014)
But I'm glad you did as your joke was worth it!

If someone takes the time to make an interesting comment, I courteously respond.
You will note my five responses are all in direct response to a meaningful comment,
i.e comments that you are unable to make, as ever. Yet you still visit threads that
are beyond your appreciation. Me thinks you are another ugly moth spending too much
time in the dark with your friends, and therefore inevitably attracted to the light.
I really ought to feel sorry for you.

[CunningLinguist]

If someone takes the time to make an interesting comment, I courteously respond.
You will note my five responses are all in direct response to a meaningful comment,
i.e comments that you are unable to make, as ever. Yet you still visit threads that
are beyond your appreciation. Me thinks you are another ugly moth spending too much
time in the dark with your friends, and therefore inevitably attracted to the light.
I really ought to feel sorry for you.

Looks like your medication is working, normally you would have threatened to expose peoples forum postings to their employer and been banned (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) by now.

Cmon admit it! you are desperately trying to keep your thread alive so you can boast how popular it is and so you can feel like you are the forum sage with your self professed knowledge and truth (that has no facts to back it up). I think you just want to feel important and probably in RL no one listens to you so you have resorted to an anonynous forum to boost your self-esteem. I really do feel sorry for you :-)

[Max Impact]

I didn't read this thread until CL's funny post. It was then that I realised how pathetic the Ops intentions were.

[ChairmanPlough]

Looks like your medication is working, normally you would have threatened to expose peoples forum postings to their employer and been banned (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) by now.

Cmon admit it! you are desperately trying to keep your thread alive so you can boast how popular it is and so you can feel like you are the forum sage with your self professed knowledge and truth (that has no facts to back it up). I think you just want to feel important and probably in RL no one listens to you so you have resorted to an anonynous forum to boost your self-esteem. I really do feel sorry for you :-)

I spend less than one hour per day on the forum, you spend most of your sad life here, as we all know.

You have no meaningful contribution to make on this thread, because you are quite unable (as ever), and you seem to spend your time "exposing" folk who just couldn't care less, nobody cares, only you and your cronies, always the same ones coincidently. You work together like a limp-wristed pack of wolves.

Why don't you start a "interesting" thread that gets thousands of views and hundreds of replies, and I mean "interesting" as opposed to the same old tripe you spew.

Take your time, I'll give you six months to think about it and you can "google" all your "factual" info. If it's interesting I might even respond, although I seriously doubt it.

[ChairmanPlough]

I didn't read this thread until CL's funny post. It was then that I realised how pathetic the Ops intentions were.

Still you have nothing to contribute, and are unable to say anything of quality or of interest.
You really should get your tongue out CLs arse, it's simply not a good look for you, and not a little embarassing.

[ChairmanPlough]

Paul Keating famously referred to John Howard as the 'unflushable turd'.

I'm no great fan of PK but the description amused me and I feel it suits Chairman Plough very nicely!

Still you have nothing to say; just more rubbish from an empty vessel.
How sad is it for some "punters" to linger on threads they just can't contribute to in any meaningful way,
peddling and spreading their shite. And with such delicate sensibilities too, quite a combination of attributes &
traits you have.

Surprise me, say something interesting Mr Chau. (just love the name!)

[CunningLinguist]

Paul Keating famously referred to John Howard as the 'unflushable turd'.

I'm no great fan of PK but the description amused me and I feel it suits Chairman Plough very nicely!

Nice one!
Poor CP has been flushed 11 times (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) though, but he keep coming back ...

[CunningLinguist]

Looks like CP has finally learned to control his temper after being banned 11 times (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) I do feel that he provided more entertaiment value before though, any chance you can stop taking your medication so we can see the real CP of old back in action ?

[ChairmanPlough]

Looks like CP has finally learned to control his temper after being banned 11 times (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) I do feel that he provided more entertaiment value before though, any chance you can stop taking your medication so we can see the real CP of old back in action ?

You can't contribute so you swipe, with the deliberate intention of creating discontent on the forum, thereby giving you a pretext for banning people. Your modis operandi is embarassingly obvious to everyone.

The low-brow swiping always begins with you and your cronies, because you have nothing else to offer. Like me, I great many other folk on this forum know exactly how things tick here, how things always get brought down to the lowest level by the same cronies, diminishing the forum as you go.

But the good folk of the forum don't need a running commentary from me on this matter, they already know all about you guys.
It's a shame for the forum though, because no reasoned civil discourse can ever ultimately prevail. You suffocate the forum with your crass ignorance, lurking around on threads and spewing out with an almost parasitic interest. Most strange.

We're all looking forward to your next interesting, thought provoking thread CL, and whoever else you may be. (hahaha)

[Max Impact]

We are looking forward to your FIRST interesting, thought provoking thread Chairman Poo.

[CunningLinguist]

blah blah blah

Not bad, I can tell you are starting to get angry now, so it won't be long before I can complete the last row reserved for you in the table in the thread Banned again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again ... (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) :)
For the record we all know you are scum :)
Anyone can read through your various postings under other names in the past. Click here to see the names. (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)
Some of the rudest stuff has been deleted by admin though as it was totally unacceptable.
So now you feign moral indignation and hope to appeal to forum newcomers who are not aware of your rude and banned past.
I just want to assure you I will be here to remind people about the real person behind CP, and whatever form you choose to take in the future. Yes you do stand out, I won't give it away too easily why you stand out, but one hint is that your are a wanker, and a pretty big one at that, possibly the biggest I have ever come across :)

So everyone remember CP is the person that threatened to expose certain members postings to their employers.

Oh one more thing CP, you should probably think yourself pretty lucky that you haven't been banned already just from your behaviour from previous accounts. I think admin has been very tolerant of you :)

[ChairmanPlough]

Not bad, I can tell you are starting to get angry now, so it won't be long before I can complete the last row reserved for you in the table in the thread Banned again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again ... (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) :)
For the record we all know you are scum :)
Anyone can read through your various postings under other names in the past. Click here to see the names. (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)
Some of the rudest stuff has been deleted by admin though as it was totally unacceptable.
So now you feign moral indignation and hope to appeal to forum newcomers who are not aware of your rude and banned past.
I just want to assure you I will be here to remind people about the real person behind CP, and whatever form you choose to take in the future. Yes you do stand out, I won't give it away too easily why you stand out, but one hint is that your are a wanker, and a pretty big one at that, possibly the biggest I have ever come across :)

Oh one more thing CP, you should probably think yourself pretty lucky that you haven't been banned already just from your behaviour from previous accounts. I think admin has been very tolerant of you :)

Bad language, personal insults, rubbish from someone apparently with an obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Still nothing meaningful to contribute to the thread, as ever, just abuse.
Still not wanting punters to think for themselves with regard to this thread or any other.

I'm not the least bit angry with you young lady, only a lady could have such delicate sensibilities,
and could hurl such personal abuse, and then never suffer any consequences whatsoever on the forum.
How very quaint, and oh so convenient for you. (hahaha)

I'm very happy for punters to make up their own minds as to whose the fool around here.
But will they get the chance, I wonder?

[Licker]

you are an uneducated buffoon, proud, foolish and full of spite

Alex, I just have to ask.

Did you just misspell a word?
As I thought we were dealing with a baboon, and a crazy one for that.

[Max Impact]

I think Chairman POO is beginning to stick (please pardon the pun).

[CunningLinguist]

blah blah, cry crocodile tears, whinge, blah blah

Chairman POO has moved onto stage 2, he has started calling people ladies now, it won't be long before we are at stage 3 ...

Just a reminder to anyone wondering what all this is about, Chaiman POO has been banned (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) many times before and he has threatened to expose members postings to their employers, now he is trying to feign moral indignation and hope for sympathy.

Also note in all his incarnations he has never written a genuine AR, though he has written plenty of fake ARs which have been duly exposed.

So he is full of shit, can't be trusted, and has a track record of lies, deceit, and bad behaviour.

So CP why don't you do us all a favour, including yourself and what little integrity you have left, and commit Seppuku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku)

[ChairmanPlough]

Chairman POO has moved onto stage 2, he has started calling people ladies now, it won't be long before we are at stage 3 ...

Just a reminder to anyone wondering what all this is about, Chaiman POO has been banned (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) many times before and he has threatened to expose members postings to their employers, now is is trying to feign moral indignation and hope for sympathy.

Also note in all his incarnations he has never written a genuine AR, though he has written plenty of fake ARs which have been duly exposed.

So he is full of shit, can't be trusted, and has a track record of lies, deceit, and bad behaviour.

So CP why don't you do us all a favour, including yourself and what little integrity you have left, and commit Seppuku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku)

My dear, you have a very unhealthy fixation with me for some reason - you are demonstrating obsessive-compulsive disorder.
A wise old man once wrote: "hate and love are two horns on the same goat"
I wonder if this is your problem. Me thinks it might me.

So the ravens have descended to spread the darkness all around, again. Continuing with personalised verbal abuse,
making very odd unsubstatiated claims and, as always, acting with complete impunity on the forum.
And suffocating the forum, again, with their excitable views and such delicate sensibilities.
Just who might these folk be, I wonder? (hahaha)

I take it you still have no meaningful contribution to the thread. Some things never change.

You limp-wristed pack of wolves are quite the most monumental bore to me.

I'm very happy, as always, to let viewers make up their own minds as to what they may think, about anything.
I'm sure they'll be most even-handed about things. (hahaha)

[CunningLinguist]

blah blah, cry cry

making very odd unsubstatiated claims

blah blah


The following facts can be substantiated by the public record on the forum:
- you have been banned 11 times (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)
- you use rude and insulting language to the point of being banned
- you have had entire threads deleted because of your bad language
- you have done many fake ARs
- you have never done a real AR
There are more negative things I could say but I think the above irrefutable facts get the message across.
Also a number of members have said that you have threatened to tell their employers about their postings on the forum.

You keep coming back like a troll and try it on again and again, and never once apologised.
You treat the forum and its members with contempt and think you are above us all with your so called truth (that can not be substantiated).

[Sextus]

But we humans, or some of us at least, did not evolve from apes. It's a complete falsehood.

I think the theory is that apes and humans had some kind of common ancestor - that was probably more ape-like than even apes. So we can draw little comfort for the divergence! Ha!

So what kind of creature do you think we did evolve from then? The common ancestor, or something else?

[ChairmanPlough]

I think the theory is that apes and humans had some kind of common ancestor - that was probably more ape-like than even apes. So we can draw little comfort for the divergence! Ha!

So what kind of creature do you think we did evolve from then? The common ancestor, or something else?

At last, a genuine, inquisitive and solid mind brings us back to the original thread. Very good of you Sextus.
Well, the short answer is, for some of us, "something else." Eddie Cochrane wrote a song all about it. (hahaha).
There's a great Wordsworth poem that has a verse or two about this, it's magnificent. I'll have to look it up and
give it to you, I don't have it all off the top of my head. I'll be in touch soon, I gotta get to a meeting now, cheers.

[CunningLinguist]

so the answer is 'something else' huh... chairman poo, you are very quick to fling excremet at the opinions of others but always very reluctant to offer views of your own. Is it because youre worried they will be ridiculed?

And as for poor sextus, 'inquisitive and genuine', is that all he gets?

Yes CP is a troll, there is no point indulging him in serious conversation as he can never answer a direct question and he can never back up what he says.
Just for the record:
He has:
- been banned 11 times
- used rude and insulting language to the point of being banned
- has had entire threads deleted because of bad language
- has done many fake ARs
- has never done a real AR
- threatened to tell their members employers about their postings on the forum.
- never apologised for his bad behaviour
- treats the forum and its members with contempt

[ChairmanPlough]

Yes CP is a troll, there is no point indulging him in serious conversation as he can never answer a direct question and he can never back up what he says.
Just for the record:
He has:
- been banned 11 times
- used rude and insulting language to the point of being banned
- has had entire threads deleted because of bad language
- has done many fake ARs
- has never done a real AR
- threatened to tell their members employers about their postings on the forum.
- never apologised for his bad behaviour
- treats the forum and its members with contempt

You seem totally fixated on me, how strange and how embarassing for you.
No matter how many of your regular girl-friends back you, it's always you embarassing yourself on the forum.
Your repetition is utterly boring, only your cronies give a shit, no body else - haven't you noticed sugarplum.
Have a nice cup of cocoa and settle yourself, don't keep getting your knick-knacks in a smelly twist. (hahaha)

[ChairmanPlough]

so the answer is 'something else' huh... chairman poo, you are very quick to fling excremet at the opinions of others but always very reluctant to offer views of your own. Is it because youre worried they will be ridiculed?

And as for poor sextus, 'inquisitive and genuine', is that all he gets?

Please get your spelling right sugarplum (excremet??). And did you actually say
I'm reluctant to offer views of my own...where have you been sweety.
And the only folk who attempt (and I mean attempt) ridicule are the same regular cronies.
Many others have no interest in the dark games of the ravens.
And, unlike you, Sextus has a very good mind, and his comments deserve a considered response,
which I always give him. I'll be posting the particular magnificent Wordsworth verse on this matter
that Sextus raised quite soon.

Now, get your tongue out of CL's derriere, have a cup of milo and cool your online dutch-courage.
I continue to welcome any meaningful comment from you, and I continue to be a patient man. And a real one. (hahaha).

[Jg52]

Read page 1 of this thread n thought it was brilliant and interesting. Decided to skip to the last page n see it is no longer relevant. Wonder if I should read the pages in between

[CunningLinguist]

Read page 1 of this thread n thought it was brilliant and interesting. Decided to skip to the last page n see it is no longer relevant. Wonder if I should read the pages in between

If you like that stuff then there is plenty more to be found under his other user names, see here (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) for a list.

But keep in mind he has:
- been banned 11 times
- used rude and insulting language to the point of being banned
- has had entire threads deleted because of bad language
- has done many fake ARs
- has never done a real AR
- threatened to tell their members employers about their postings on the forum.
- never apologised for his bad behaviour
- treats the forum and its members with contempt

[ChairmanPlough]

Read page 1 of this thread n thought it was brilliant and interesting. Decided to skip to the last page n see it is no longer relevant. Wonder if I should read the pages in between

Read the thread comrade, and you will see how interesting it has been. And you will also see who has decided
to throw repetitive abuse, with total impunity, because she and her cronies don't have the intellect to meanigfully contribute.
Over and over again, they suffocate the interesting discussions of the forum because they see them as
a distraction from their main event i.e the promotion of their own interests. You will also see that I try not to
descend to their level, it's a long way to fall you know. Take what they say with a grain of salt, then laugh at them,
or even pity them. They spend an awful lot of time on the forum and therefore need ways to justify their sad existence.

[ChairmanPlough]

I think the theory is that apes and humans had some kind of common ancestor - that was probably more ape-like than even apes. So we can draw little comfort for the divergence! Ha!

So what kind of creature do you think we did evolve from then? The common ancestor, or something else?

As mentioned previously Sextus, William Wordsworth wrote some magnificent poetry relating to this matter, and as promised
I have managed to track it down. There is a considerable amount in the overall poem so i have extracted the most relevant
aspects. As you know, the poetic symbolism has to thought about, but knowing you as one of the more intelligent folk
around here, I'm sure it will give you some "food for thought."

Thanks again for bringing the thread back to the intended interesting discussion.

Ode On Intimations of Immortality (William Wordsworth – published 1807) - brief extract only.

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But He beholds the light, and whence it flows,
He sees it in his joy;


Cheers,
ChairmanPlough

[CunningLinguist]

As mentioned previously Sextus, William Wordsworth wrote some magnificent poetry relating to this matter, and as promised
I have managed to track it down. There is a considerable amount in the overall poem so i have extracted the most relevant
aspects. As you know, the poetic symbolism has to thought about, but knowing you as one of the more intelligent folk
around here, I'm sure it will give you some "food for thought."

Thanks again for bringing the thread back to the intended interesting discussion.

Ode On Intimations of Immortality (William Wordsworth – published 1807) - brief extract only.

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But He beholds the light, and whence it flows,
He sees it in his joy;


Cheers,
ChairmanPlough

So CP is religious, I wonder how he reconciles that with owning a number RnT's/brothels ....
Also I wonder if sought confession for threatening to expose some members postings to their employers ...

[ChairmanPlough]

So CP is religious, I wonder how he reconciles that with owning a number RnT's/brothels ....
Also I wonder if sought confession for threatening to expose some members postings to their employers ...

Repetitious, unsubstantiated nonsense from a sadly fixated young lady (or perhaps not so young).

It's good that you keep coming back to the light, your spiritual instincts obviously exceed your intellect.
You seek to be englightened, and, ipso facto, after a necessarily very long journey you may well be.

I'm sure Wordsworth was of great benefit to you, whether you currently realise it or not. The seed has surely been sewn.

Have a nice cup of cocoa sugarplum, and a lovely evening.

[ChairmanPlough]

chairman poo is a brothel owner? I suddenly have an iota of grudging respect for the guy

I imagined him in my minds eye as a lonely middle aged man living in a depressing bedsit or boarding house who spends his time trawling the internet for right wing conspiracy theories and stories about jesus

You weren't imagining me dear fellow, you were simply looking at yourself, and ,per chance,
you didn't like what you could see. Read a bit of Wordsworth and have yourself a lovely evening. (hahaha)

Ps. I don't need to trawl the internet. You haven't been paying attention, have you.
I bring the essential knowledge and truth, I give it to the people, they can think on it for themselves.
The internet is essentially misinformation for non-discerning minds, empty vessels and dry sponges.
Stop thinking that knowledge or truth must be "google approved", the reverse would be much more accurate.

[CunningLinguist]

blah blah, <troll words>, blah blah blah

Denying things that you can be proven guilty of by examining the forum public record is not real smart, but you never were real smart, after all you have been banned 11 times now ...
You sound like a failed politician.
It won't be long before you deny you have been banned and that those other accounts of yours were not reallly you all along ...

[ChairmanPlough]

So CP is religious, I wonder how he reconciles that with owning a number RnT's/brothels ....
Also I wonder if sought confession for threatening to expose some members postings to their employers ...

You have a very quaint view of what constitutes "religious." I think a more appropriate term is "spiritual." No matter.
Good to see you fluttering in the sunlight and the rejuvenating breeze again, as opposed to lurking in the darkness.
I welcome you, come to the my light whenever you choose my dear.

Ps. Did you like the Wordsworth poetry extract?

[Sextus]

Ode On Intimations of Immortality (William Wordsworth – published 1807)

:shout: I think you may be on safer poetic ground quoting Wordsworth than maybe offering up your own verse!

Feel free, however, to deliver some more poetry, I might be in the minority but for one, I did quite enjoy it!

I must advise though, by the time you get to the stage in these many threads of referring to "the lady cunninglinguist" and offering up clunkily earnest verse, admin begins to stir from out of his fitful and restless slumber. A fitful and restless slumber we noisy children are always the cause of!

Actually, I do admire admin for his Olympian ability to rarely intercede amongst his squabbling children - and just generally to bite his tongue in the face of much provocative commentary. :question: I just couldn't resist getting my two cents in more regularly.

[ChairmanPlough]

:shout: I think you may be on safer poetic ground quoting Wordsworth than maybe offering up your own verse!

Feel free, however, to deliver some more poetry, I might be in the minority but for one, I did quite enjoy it!

I must advise though, by the time you get to the stage in these many threads of referring to "the lady cunninglinguist" and offering up clunkily earnest verse, admin begins to stir from out of his fitful and restless slumber. A fitful and restless slumber we noisy children are always the cause of!

Actually, I do admire admin for his Olympian ability to rarely intercede amongst his squabbling children - and just generally to bite his tongue in the face of much provocative commentary. :question: I just couldn't resist getting my two cents in more regularly.

My dear Sextus,
you walk the narrow path between praise and insult with the skill of a mountain goat.

And I take my hat off to you for that skill.

However, with anticipated even-handedness from you, don't you think I have had rather a lot thrown at me.
My good humoured responses have never descended to vitriolic personal abuse, as I'm sure you know.

Like you, I'm a huge fan of the very best of Wordsworth, but not of everything he did.
I'm bound to say, I believe some of my better efforts are right up there too.
But, of course, these things do, at least in part, come down to personal taste.
I think it was TS Eliot who said "good poetry derives from the wits, whilst
great poetry comes from the soul."

Accordingly, I feel I'm well able to throw my hat in the poetry ring.

Cheers...and I'll consider your kind invitation to provide some more poetry.

Ps. It's always good to hear from a voice of reason, you can critique without being
vitriolic, and you at least attempt a degree of impartiality. Some others are much less able.

[Sextus]

There was no insult, I can only judge poems as a whole, and there more than a few clunky spanners thown into those poetic works. But that is part of what made them fun I thought.

If I could mix up all the lines of all the poems like a big pile of unrelated scrabble tiles, I could pick out, divorced from their context, many lines and couplets from the pile that work quite well and would have taken a lot of thought to write.

In fact, as a project, I could put all these lines I consider good into one dense and impenetrable poem - and we might even find we have a new Ern Malley on our hands! :shout:

[ChairmanPlough]

There was no insult, I can only judge poems as a whole, and there more than a few clunky spanners thown into those poetic works. But that is part of what made them fun I thought.

If I could mix up all the lines of all the poems like a big pile of unrelated scrabble tiles, I could pick out, divorced from their context, many lines and couplets from the pile that work quite well and would have taken a lot of thought to write.

In fact, as a project, I could put all these lines I consider good into one dense and impenetrable poem - and we might even find we have a new Ern Malley on our hands! :shout:

Ah, now isn't this interesting. I'm more or less in complete agreement with you Sextus.
As I mentioned regarding Wordsworth, I included only a small extract from his huge poem,
about 11 verses in total. The extract was only one half of one verse. And this is the key point;
many of the great poems were great due to only a few lines, or perhaps one great verse.
The remaining material might be ok, but it basically exists to support or adorn the other great lines.

I could hardly bear to the read the entire 11 verses at one sitting, very hard work.
It is almost necessary or mandatory to have the "run of the mill" lines in order that the great lines stand out.
You've got me thinking now as to whether or not it is tenable for me do a composite of several of my poems.
I think it would be very tricky, but what a challenge. Anyway, I have done quite few new shorter poems recently,
so maybe I can pick one out for you to critique.

As you know, I appreciate constructive criticism, it assists the creative process.

cheers....

[Sextus]

....with the advisement that admin takes an even more critical line than me when it comes to your poetry! :shout:

[ChairmanPlough]

....with the advisement that admin takes an even more critical line than me when it comes to your poetry! :shout:

I suppose that advisement is not without some foundation. However, I seem to remember several very positive comments
from various different punters who were clearly interested. But I take your point, the fact that some people might be interested
is not necessarily an influencial factor when it comes to the inner machinations of the seven samurai. Perhaps a very erotic piece
might suffice, something with more obvious universal appeal? I'll think about it, otherwise I'll just PM you with my selection.

cheers....

Ps. I'm a very open guy, as everyone knows (hahaha), and I want to emphasize my
appreciation of your efforts in bringing civility and humour to discussions.
You won't believe me, but I laughed out loud to your guillotine joke/observation,
such an unfortunate end for the brilliant gallic fellow, who ever he was. (haha)

[Sextus]

Don't PM them to me, an audience of one. That is the ultimate in amateur publishing. Post them normally!

And I hope you other protagonists aren't groaning inwardly at my encouragement here - those poems are rather fun I think!

[ChairmanPlough]

Don't PM them to me, an audience of one. That is the ultimate in amateur publishing. Post them normally!

And I hope you other protagonists aren't groaning inwardly at my encouragement here - those poems are rather fun I think!

Ok..I'll go through my extensive new collection, and some of my older material. I'm sure I'll find something suitable.
I have a few things going on elsewhere at the moment, so it might take a couple of days to organise.
But, fear not, I shall return. If not on the 'morrow, then soon thereafter.

Cheers.......

[ChairmanPlough]

Back by popular demand, an interesting and perhaps quite inciteful poetic piece,
with some relevance to one and all. A very recent and topical poem.
Interesting food for thought or a bucket load of shite?


The Ravens

Black are the ravens that watch with deviant eyes,
Descending with the darkness on tantalising bright skies,
They would wish, yet cannot sing a sweet melody, only to squawk their hideous noise,
Befooling their own with beguiling paternalism, only to feast on the bones of their boys.

Discontented are the ravens, ever waiting in their dull-ridden place,
Longing to be seen and heard in daylight, but nothing to say and without fairness of face,
Frustated with only parochial appreciation, never changing because of how they are known,
Their hostility is refuelled and then multiplied, by the certainty their dark seed is now sewn.

Their black plumage, large beaks and croaking, are sure signs of ill-omen for all,
What reasoning with their diet of dead flesh? What redemption for the souls brought to fall?
Persistent, unrelenting repetition, of their life-cycle so dark and so grim,
Should they all not be delivered from their evil, and long told of the truth from their sin.

Beware the fearful dark ravens, as they embark on their desperate and relentless flights,
They encourage the many neighbours to participate, as long as you do for them right,
Don’t mention their discordant squawking, or why they enjoy to wallow in a place so out-of-tune,
For they’ll continue until all’s brought back to darkness; the sky, the sea and the dune.

[Sextus]

Back by popular demand

I think he is referring to me there. Makes me feel like the Popular Front of Judea - also with a membership of one.

Let me get back to you, Chairman Plough, on this new, dark work.

[ChairmanPlough]

I think he is referring to me there. Makes me feel like the Popular Front of Judea - also with a membership of one.

Let me get back to you, Chairman Plough, on this new, dark work.

My good fellow Sextus, am I to assume you were not struck with a more
expansive initial impression?

You say that it is dark, and I don't really disagree, at least in terms of subject matter.
But, I do believe there is a hopeful tone in there too, emerging through the
insightful observations made, which shed light on various matters pertaining to
both the human condition and to life generally.

Yes, it does have a dark overtone, but still with a bright undertone, either way it is
a work or genius, is it not? As T.S Eliot said, "good poetry derives from the wits,
while great poetry comes from the soul." (I'm back in the groove dear boy). Hahaha

[Sextus]

Chairman Plough, have a little patience, please. I've been busy. I did say I'd get back to you on the poem!

If this thread meanwhile falls off the front page, hey! that's no drama or dire fate - it happens to all threads - usually sooner rather than later. The rare, probably unique exception being Isis, who had to eventually kill her thread off herself!

[AHLUNGOR]

Hi Chairman Poo, thanks for sharing your poetry. I admire your willingness to express yourself creatively! I enjoyed reading your poem and I have some constructive feedback that I hope you may find useful:

in terms of your written expression - overall I found your style laboured and pretencious. Your treatment of the English language is brutal and hamfisted and you clearly have a mind that is lacking in subtelty or grace.

More fundamentally, in regard to your creative sentiment - Wordsworth once famously remarked that all good poetry is a spontaneous overflow of profound feeling. Well, I found the emotional narrative of your poem spiteful and vain and I fear you are too egocentric and petty minded to ever establish a meaningful connection with an audience.

In any case, I do hope you continue to practice you poetry, it can be a lot of fun and very rewarding! Just because you have no creative talent and find it difficult to express yourself with the written word does not mean that you should refrain from trying to reach a basic level of proficiency

After 20 years of punting experiences, may be there is a review written as a poem ??

[Licker]

Dear Chairman,

I can't really see the bright undertone you mention in that poem.
It's pretty clear who you think the 'ravens' are, and as such your 'poem' will likely just pour more gasoline to the flames.
If that is your intention then the purpose of the poem probably will achieve its' goal.

As for the poetic value:


Poetry for Poetry's Sake

Andrew Cecil Bradley defines the actual poem as “the succession of experiences — sounds, images, thoughts, emotions — through which we pass when we are reading as poetically as we can.”. He acknowledges that this “imaginative experience” will change depending on the time in which the poem is read and the individual reader.
A poem possesses poetic value if it satisfies our imagination; it does not need to engage our knowledge or conscience, though it may be valued for its cultural or religious worth. Poetry can serve a variety of purposes, such as to aide a good cause, provide instruction, or make the poet rich and famous, but these purposes do not contribute to the determination of the poem’s poetic worth.

I didn't really get a "imaginative experience". I found it rather cut'n'dry.
And even though your 'poem' clearly has a purpose (to you at least), I feel it's poetic worth is close to nonexistent.

As Alex said "your style is laboured and pretencious", and this is probably because you had set to write this with one purpose in mind.

In that respect couple of your previous poems were much better as they came from a "happy place", perhaps from imagining an event of pleasure.


As T.S Eliot said, "good poetry derives from the wits, while great poetry comes from the soul."

For your sake I hope this one did not come from your soul, I'm not sure that it was particularly witty.

[DarkZero01]

After 20 years of punting experiences, may be there is a review written as a poem ??

Maybe you can write some Chinese poems about the MLs in the AR section since you are the expert when it comes to ML:shout:

[Sextus]

I know that the artiste’ has to have a motivation to create. A songwriter, for example, always agonises over a central theme for their song, and usually even the music won’t come until the primary idea or motivational subject appears to them. Ideas have a foundation, they don’t arise out of a vacuum.

In the case of this poem, your motivational theme is obviously one directed towards your forum foes. Ha Ha! Well, why not? Conflict is a strong motivator.

Your former paens to love were much lighter, though perhaps less readable. Now look, I have a few comments, but please look at them as coming from a source that is appreciative that you have gone to the effort of writing this, as Alex Chau commented on too. You are resilient to the general criticism you get on your threads, so I’m sure that you will sustain this for your nakedly creative efforts too. I’d feel guilty if I was only to tear down the works of others rather than create my own, and thereby dry your poems up at the source, so don’t feel discouraged if we want to have a bit of fun ourselves.

This new poem has unrelentingly bleak and dark imagery. It kind of brings the reader down with it, though that is more a statement than a criticism. I do find points of humour, so it isn’t quite so bleak in that regard – not sure how intentional the humour is though.

Poetry is hard to do. I’ve never been interested in attempting it, you deserve plaudits for doing that which I would have to work far too hard if I was ever going to live up to my own standards.


Black are the ravens that watch with deviant eyes

We know that whether they have deviant eyes or not, all ravens are black, so you aren’t referring to literal ravens, or even literal black for that matter, but your view of their human equivalent. Ravens do get a bad press don’t they, from the likes of Edgar Alan Poe or those evily portentous ravens that inhabit the Tower of London, who have overseen many a bloody execution.



What reasoning with their diet of dead flesh? What redemption for the souls brought to fall?


Of course, the flesh we all eat is hopefully not still quick with life – that would be ghastly - so I think you must mean carrion. You are a big fan of the rhetorical question Chairman Plough. Especially in your love poems. It would, however, be sheer hard work to attempt to answer them all. Here’s an idea, if you are going to pose them (and please do keep posing them) how about giving some answers to them in an appendix? Be your own critic!


Beware the fearful dark ravens, as they embark on their desperate and relentless flights,
They encourage the many neighbours to participate, as long as you do for them right,
Don’t mention their discordant squawking, or why they enjoy to wallow in a place so out-of-tune,
For they’ll continue until all’s brought back to darkness; the sky, the sea and the dune.

Now, I’m not sure here, Chairman Plough, what is so special about a narrow, vegetation free, littoral environment as the only representative of land to be brought under darkness, except that this specialised environment also happens to rhyme with “tune.” Be that as it may, it is still ok, such things, as I said, add up to make your poetry entertaining. We all can't be specialists. I think your better talent lies in the way you create characters to inhabit. Only sometimes, in quieter moments, do I fear they may not entirely be creations! :horror:

[AHLUNGOR]

Maybe you can write some Chinese poems about the MLs in the AR section since you are the expert when it comes to ML:shout:

Sure, why not, happy to share:

二十四橋明月夜
玉人何處教吹簫

The Chinese brothers will know this classic poem from the Tang Dynasty .

If you do an I translate :

24 bridge out back Where is my darling teaches blowjob!

But to put that into better English:

In an evening under the bright moon over at Twenty Four Bridge .
Where is my darling who is teaching a blowjob somewhere?

[Sextus]

"Twenty Four Bridge moon night
Where they teach jade flute"

That is pretty Ah Lungor, even if it didn't survive the translation intact!

[AHLUNGOR]

"Twenty Four Bridge moon night
Where they teach jade flute"

That is pretty Ah Lungor, even if it didn't survive the translation intact!

Haha brother Sextus,

You are doing a better translation job than me !!

[AHLUNGOR]

妖姬脸似花含露，玉树流光照后庭。


Try to translate this one !


Yao Ji face like a flower with dew, yushuliu light behind.

But what he really meant to say was:

The horny concubine's face like a flower with dew because she has cum dripping down her mouth.

His jade tree (his cock) is so shinny that it lights up her back side (ready to be taken up the ass)!

玉樹後庭花！

千古名句

Use his jade tree up her ass!
A famous phrase for over a thousand years!

[Licker]

The Enchantress with her face drenched like flowers with dew,
waiting for his light to the valley where sun never shines.
??

[ChairmanPlough]

Hi Chairman Poo, thanks for sharing your poetry. I admire your willingness to express yourself creatively! I enjoyed reading your poem and I have some constructive feedback that I hope you may find useful:

in terms of your written expression - overall I found your style laboured and pretencious. Your treatment of the English language is brutal and hamfisted and you clearly have a mind that is lacking in subtelty or grace.

More fundamentally, in regard to your creative sentiment - Wordsworth once famously remarked that all good poetry is a spontaneous overflow of profound feeling. Well, I found the emotional narrative of your poem spiteful and vain and I fear you are too egocentric and petty minded to ever establish a meaningful connection with an audience.

In any case, I do hope you continue to practice you poetry, it can be a lot of fun and very rewarding! Just because you have no creative talent and find it difficult to express yourself with the written word does not mean that you should refrain from trying to reach a basic level of proficiency

Spelling my dear, spelling!

So you enjoyed reading my poem, as you say, but you think I have no creative talent; certainly an interesting and
dichotomous critique. Might I suggest that it is somewhat less than impartial. No matter, you came to the light and
you read a "dark" poem with a bright undertone. I thank you for taking the time to "enjoy" my poem and for commenting.
As it is probably the first you have read, better that it had been a bit more light and fluffy like some previous efforts.
But, I'm sure time will steer you beyond your prejudices and eventually you will recognize the great wisdom that lies within
this poem, and so many others. I should say that it was "hot off the press" so perhaps I could have given it another edit,
but I'm still more than happy with it. Cheers.....

[ChairmanPlough]

After 20 years of punting experiences, may be there is a review written as a poem ??

Well it can be done. if that is a request sugarplum?

[ChairmanPlough]

Dear Chairman,

I can't really see the bright undertone you mention in that poem.
It's pretty clear who you think the 'ravens' are, and as such your 'poem' will likely just pour more gasoline to the flames.
If that is your intention then the purpose of the poem probably will achieve its' goal.

As for the poetic value:



I didn't really get a "imaginative experience". I found it rather cut'n'dry.
And even though your 'poem' clearly has a purpose (to you at least), I feel it's poetic worth is close to nonexistent.

As Alex said "your style is laboured and pretencious", and this is probably because you had set to write this with one purpose in mind.

In that respect couple of your previous poems were much better as they came from a "happy place", perhaps from imagining an event of pleasure.



For your sake I hope this one did not come from your soul, I'm not sure that it was particularly witty.

Ordinarily you critique with "the evenness of two hands both" so to speak, though I'm bound to say your comment
that the poetic value is "close to non-existent" is somewhat silly, even perhaps absurd. Again though, I appreciate
you taking time to read it and for stating your preference for my previous lighter efforts. I think the subject matter,
being clearly dark, has perhaps interferred with your sound judgement on this occasion. All great poets, myself included,
recognize the light and shade of life and love. Indeed, one cannot exist without the other. Accordingly, from time to time,
we must attempt to address the dark side in poetry. Whether we prefer the subject matter or not is quite irrelevant.
What is important for the poet, is not to languish on the dark side for any period beyond the time required to conceive
and write the poem. I think I have written a "successful" and insightful poem. The fact that there is something magnificent
about it, however, does not necessarily mean that I particularly like it.

Many thanks for your critique, though I clearly disagree with it mon ami, I do still appreciate your more considered opinions.

[ChairmanPlough]

I know that the artiste’ has to have a motivation to create. A songwriter, for example, always agonises over a central theme for their song, and usually even the music won’t come until the primary idea or motivational subject appears to them. Ideas have a foundation, they don’t arise out of a vacuum.

In the case of this poem, your motivational theme is obviously one directed towards your forum foes. Ha Ha! Well, why not? Conflict is a strong motivator.

Your former paens to love were much lighter, though perhaps less readable. Now look, I have a few comments, but please look at them as coming from a source that is appreciative that you have gone to the effort of writing this, as Alex Chau commented on too. You are resilient to the general criticism you get on your threads, so I’m sure that you will sustain this for your nakedly creative efforts too. I’d feel guilty if I was only to tear down the works of others rather than create my own, and thereby dry your poems up at the source, so don’t feel discouraged if we want to have a bit of fun ourselves.

This new poem has unrelentingly bleak and dark imagery. It kind of brings the reader down with it, though that is more a statement than a criticism. I do find points of humour, so it isn’t quite so bleak in that regard – not sure how intentional the humour is though.

Poetry is hard to do. I’ve never been interested in attempting it, you deserve plaudits for doing that which I would have to work far too hard if I was ever going to live up to my own standards.



We know that whether they have deviant eyes or not, all ravens are black, so you aren’t referring to literal ravens, or even literal black for that matter, but your view of their human equivalent. Ravens do get a bad press don’t they, from the likes of Edgar Alan Poe or those evily portentous ravens that inhabit the Tower of London, who have overseen many a bloody execution.



Of course, the flesh we all eat is hopefully not still quick with life – that would be ghastly - so I think you must mean carrion. You are a big fan of the rhetorical question Chairman Plough. Especially in your love poems. It would, however, be sheer hard work to attempt to answer them all. Here’s an idea, if you are going to pose them (and please do keep posing them) how about giving some answers to them in an appendix? Be your own critic!



Now, I’m not sure here, Chairman Plough, what is so special about a narrow, vegetation free, littoral environment as the only representative of land to be brought under darkness, except that this specialised environment also happens to rhyme with “tune.” Be that as it may, it is still ok, such things, as I said, add up to make your poetry entertaining. We all can't be specialists. I think your better talent lies in the way you create characters to inhabit. Only sometimes, in quieter moments, do I fear they may not entirely be creations! :horror:

Again Sextus, you tread carefully on the path between truth, praise and mild insult, with the skill of a mountain goat.
It is a most admirable quality to have. I greatly appreciate your impartial critique. On some levels, I might be inclined
to agree with you, others less so. I had to laugh at the "carrion" point, and totally agree. But, you know, a degree of
poetic license is often required in creating these monuments to the truth.

Yes, this issue of posing questions, rhetorical or otherwise, is interesting. Hitherto, I have always taken the position
that the poet should say something about life/love/humanity or shed light on these things and should pose questions,
and it is for the readers to consider the questions for themselves. It's not for me to ram my position down their throat,
but to gently spoon feed them some nutrients that they can taste, think about, then swallow or spit out.
( A bit like my last punt). The nice thing about poetry, is that it can be looked at again and again, with more and more
being discovered.

Unlike the standard material law of diminishing returns (hark an echoe and cloud just passed by) a great poem is quite
the reverse, with more and more being yielded on each reading. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

All the best Sextus......thanks again.

Ps. I think my poetry certainly benefits from my multi-faceted and inquisitive nature.
Variety is undoubtedly the spice of life.

[Sextus]

You won't believe me, but I laughed out loud to your guillotine joke/observation, such an unfortunate end for the brilliant gallic fellow, who ever he was. (haha)

"The Lady Cunninglinguist" also thought that post and picture was pretty funny. I remember the picture I posted of a guillotine under a blood-red sky, but I don't remember my comments, and I can't revisit it because all those threads were deleted by admin - who, as a poetry critic, is quite ruthless. :cry:

[ChairmanPlough]

"The Lady Cunninglinguist" also thought that post and picture was pretty funny. I remember the picture I posted of a guillotine under a blood-red sky, but I don't remember my comments, and I can't revisit it because all those threads were deleted by admin - who, as a poetry critic, is quite ruthless. :cry:

I'm entirely sure that we all found it very humorous, bur for quite different reasons and from very diverse perspectives.
I think, perhaps, there was more than a modicum of relief, self-congratulation and self-justification accompanying their laughter.
Whilst I just had a laugh with it, after all, a day without laughter is a day lost.

As mentioned in the recent poem "The Ravens", these creatures are sadly very fearful indeed and, accordingly, they generally respond
in a chracteristically pseudo-aggressive manner, and always infinitely disproportionate to the circumstances pertaining at the time.
Thankfully, for the time being at least, they seem to have seen the error of their ways and have stopped actively trying to
diminish interesting discussions, it was getting boring for everyone. Far better just to let people decide for themselves what they like
or don't like. So far so good mon ami.

All the best Sextus.........

[wilisno]

This poor thing just didn't know that he was on parole ?

Still posting those aggressive comments lifted straight from his autobiography pages describing himself !

Finally we've got a bit of tranquility again ! ;) ;) ;)

[AHLUNGOR]

This poor thing just didn't know that he was on parole ?

Still posting those aggressive comments lifted straight from his autobiography pages describing himself !

Finally we've got a bit of tranquility again ! ;) ;) ;)

Finally, the Chairman is gooooone. !!

I don't like it when I can't understand all the English !!

But for how long can we have some peace and quiet Brother Wil ?? I wonder !

[Licker]

Finally, the Chairman is gooooone. !!

I don't like it when I can't understand all the English !!

But for how long can we have some peace and quiet Brother Wil ?? I wonder !

"I don't like it when I can't understand all the English !!"

Neither do I.
But more importantly, I don't like it when I do understand the English, but I don't understand the mentality and reasoning (or lack of reason in CP's case) behind the words.

[CunningLinguist]

blah blah blah ...

Far better just to let people decide for themselves what they like
or don't like. So far so good mon ami.

Well I did get bored of the troll, looks like everyone has decided then!
Oh, and you seem to be forgetting your character by breaking into french, but it's all academic now ...

[CunningLinguist]

"I don't like it when I can't understand all the English !!"

Neither do I.
But more importantly, I don't like it when I do understand the English, but I don't understand the mentality and reasoning (or lack of reason in CP's case) behind the words.

I agree, he was so full of contradictions and didn't have any logic and could never provide a simple answer to a question, just a troll, with an ingenuine attitude.