Business Questions

[kingkong1985]

Hello All,

I was just wanting to find out what it would be like running a massage business.

My next door neighbour has owned one for 8 years, he is now selling this business so that he can move overseas.

He has told me that if I want to take over the business he will give me a cheaper price for the shop.

What i know:

shop has 4 rooms
shop seams to be busy when I have been there in the past.
It is a normal asian massage joint
has council approval.

I will not say the suburb name but it is located in the south west sydney area.


Any ideas what it would be like to own a massage business as i am interested and may buy this shop.

Any good feedback would be appreciated


thanks

[wilisno]

Hello All,

I was just wanting to find out what it would be like running a massage business.

My next door neighbour has owned one for 8 years, he is now selling this business so that he can move overseas.

He has told me that if I want to take over the business he will give me a cheaper price for the shop.

What i know:

shop has 4 rooms
shop seams to be busy when I have been there in the past.
It is a normal asian massage joint
has council approval.

I will not say the suburb name but it is located in the south west sydney area.


Any ideas what it would be like to own a massage business as i am interested and may buy this shop.

Any good feedback would be appreciated


thanks
If you have to ask these questions here, you're not in the industry. My advice is, until you know how to run it, don't buy it !

[AHLUNGOR]

If you have to ask these questions here, you're not in the industry. My advice is, until you know how to run it, don't buy it !


Good advice from brother Wil.

Most Asian massage joints are run by ex massages ladies themselves, either alone or in financial partnership with their boyfriend or husband or whatever.

They would all have lots of working and operating experiences of many massage shops in different locations throughout their career. It's not an industry for a totally outsider.

Good luck

Cheers

[Oneonone]

Also if your not Asian it would be very difficult to run an Asian massage shop particularly if you don't speak the language.

[AHLUNGOR]

Also if your not Asian it would be very difficult to run an Asian massage shop particularly if you don't speak the language.

No problem there!

He could follow the successful module of Posh Newtown and only hire western girls from Gumtree !!

[kingkong1985]

Thank you for all replies.

I do think the language thing could be an issue but I suppose i could hire a secretary/ manager as I won't run the business myself.

I have been punting for a while and don't consider myself to be a total outsider.

I will think about this

The investment required is not huge so I might just have a punt and see what happens.

[gggi]

A reminder to all punters: nobody speaks "Asian".

[AHLUNGOR]

A reminder to all punters: nobody speaks "Asian".

Very true，but in the massage industry , if you can speak Chinese, you have got China, HongKong, Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia covered !

Cheers

[kingkong1985]

Ok

so language could be an issue but would I be correct to assume that as a regular punter I have some idea of what would be required to run one of these shops.

I do have a few contacts in the industry girls wise.

As long as the customers are happy that is the main thing right.

Also I have found that most of the girls working at the shop can speak english and some live in the area and don't won't to change workplace.

could this help me out a little.

and as I won't be managing it could I safely assume that I could hire a manager to run the shop

[AHLUNGOR]

Thank you for all replies.

I do think the language thing could be an issue but I suppose i could hire a secretary/ manager as I won't run the business myself.

I have been punting for a while and don't consider myself to be a total outsider.

I will think about this

The investment required is not huge so I might just have a punt and see what happens.

Good luck with that!

Hiring a receptionist or manager is easy, to get someone trust worthy and willing to work long hours (like 10am to 8pm daily) is not easy, seven days a week is one and a half full time position, that a huge overhead plus rental, utilities etc.

Secondly, it's a cash in hand business, who can you trust !

Hiring , training, rostering , is all not as simple as you think! Do you have a network of MLs to call upon.......


But as a gesture of good will, if you do open your own shop, I'll come over and try you out - if you can get some one with DD cups or E cups tits.......lol

You sounds like a brave man, all the best !!

Cheers

[kingkong1985]

Life is full of choices and risk one will never do anything if they always say it's too hard or impossible.

I operate a successful Law firm which i bought into before I even became a lawyer, Knew nothing about the law.

[Travelmate]

punting and running a business can be very different.

[Omen]

Naturally it's gonna be hard to run at first but if ur willing and committed go for it man and take the risk life's to short to play it safe.But I don't know why ur askin us for tips wouldn't it be better to ask ur mate for tips and tell him to show u the ropes tell him you will buy it only if he shows u his system of running but one thing I wouldn't do is hire a manager str8 away ur gonna have to be the manager at first

[AHLUNGOR]

Life is full of choices and risk one will never do anything if they always say it's too hard or impossible.

I operate a successful Law firm which i bought into before I even became a lawyer, Knew nothing about the law.

Wow, what do we know ??

A lawyer and a successful law firm partner!

What a teaser!! And us $35/30 min RnT punters here giving our two cents worth, what a joke !

This is probably just a loose change investment for a bit of fun and may be a tax write off avenue, we should just shut the fuck up.........lol

Show off time!

Cheers

Ps. His neighbour probably lives in Point Piper too!

[brocausewaybay]

Hmm a successful lawyer thinking about buying a RNT shop which pays hardly any tax, employs staff which possibly have no working visa, and a business that offers services that it's no licensed to and is involved in illegal activities. Not to mention asking total anonymous strangers on a punting website for advice.
I bought the story until you told us you are a lawyer.

If you really are a lawyer then you are not a very smart one, or you just made that part up. A bit like George Costanza wanting to always pretend being an architect.

Anyway, good like in your possible new business venture, whether it's real or fantasy.

[kingkong1985]

I don't think I expressed myself the way I intended.

I did not intent to imply that I am trying to show off.

Yes I am a lawyer
No i don't live in point piper
I live in south west sydney
I operate a small law firm.

What I wanted to say is in reply to everyone saying if you don't know about the business you shouldn't buy it.

When I was a student I walked into this office seeking a job.
There was 1 lawyer who just opened her business 6 months before hand.
She told me she was not capable of hiring at that time.
So I told her I would work for free until she become busy enough to pay me.
Mind u I also had to work as a security guard to pay the bills.

During that time I became a partner with her.

I am not some high flying corporate lawyer. I am very small.

You guys have got me wrong.

Thanks for advice.

I do appreciate it.

[AHLUNGOR]

I am not some high flying corporate lawyer. I am very small.

.


No problem there mate,

It's your adventure and your investment, we just try to help.

South West of Sydney, that could be a problem to me, unless you have someone really busty.............haha

But obviously you are not contented to remain "small" - you want to be a KINGKONG no less................lol

All the best

Cheers

:smile:

[AHLUNGOR]

Excellent works Brother Altgourami !!

Massage Business 101 no less !!

Cheers

:cool2:

[AHLUNGOR]

Let's just say I've been there, done that. Made a bit of a profit. Made a killing when I sold it. Never (and I mean NEVER) again.

Never Say Never Again !

Sean Connery as Bond, James Bond..................haha

[AHLUNGOR]

One last bit of advice: silent partners who run brothels are normally the guys (or syndicates) who own the licensed freehold (not strata) premises and lease it out to an experienced operator for phantom rent, 50%/50% profit share and free access to the best/new girls.

At least one of the key advertisers on this site operates this way. It's a win-win-win. Premises owner gets capital gain and freebies. Operator gets a rent free business. Girls get cash and the hope of finding a sugar daddy (with owner) for a week, month or so.

There are always brothels coming up for sale - you'll never get mortgage finance for a brothel; the only financiers who will fund such property are those who break legs and arbitrarily impose interest penalties at 10%, 20% and 30% or who have a cousin who can (and will) run the business for you.

if I had a lazy $2M in the bank that's what I'd be doing. Through a discretionary trust hiding my involvement.

Probably not a $2M adventure I don't think !

He is talking about a RnT shop, depending on the current business volume, location and rental lease, may be a $40K - $80K good will to take over the business with all existing equipments and facilities and stocks. A typical 2 year commercial lease plus bond and advance rental. The starting capital is not that big !!

But if the OP brother is not running it himself, management and control could be an on going issue, as brother altgourami has already listed out.

Cheers

ps. Not many people are as lucky and successful as Vicky and Alice, started off really small and build their business to the level they are enjoying today. Both ladies are very smart and worked extremely hard for a long time though.

[EatmyhairyassholeBitch]

Also I wouldn't expect there would be alot of 'Goodwill' included in any sale from your neighbor. If they closed down and moved to another suburb then I doubt many regulars would follow, especially for a run of the mill massage place. Only one exception would be taking over an existing license and facilities and girls but that wouldn't be really alot anyway. There is always exception to the rule but 95% of places I wouldn't think should be bought at a premium.

[brocausewaybay]

Probably not a $2M adventure I don't think !

He is talking about a RnT shop, depending on the current business volume, location and rental lease, may be a $40K - $80K good will to take over the business with all existing equipments and facilities and stocks. A typical 2 year commercial lease plus bond and advance rental. The starting capital is not that big !!

But if the OP brother is not running it himself, management and control could be an on going issue, as brother altgourami has already listed out.

Cheers

ps. Not many people are as lucky and successful as Vicky and Alice, started off really small and build their business to the level they are enjoying today. Both ladies are very smart and worked extremely hard for a long time though.


Agree. It's very hard to be successful running an illegal business, offering services you are not licensed to so well done Vicky and Alice.

I would pay a big fat zero for goodwill in a RNT business. There could be a change in laws overnight and boom there goes your business model and goodwill.

[brocausewaybay]

I was thinking of opening a massage shop in north ryde around the cressy road / nash place area (I've already selected the shop location) The girls are no problem, and I am 100% sure there are good customers in the immediate vicinity, all I need now is a good accountant - any suggestions?

Ryde council very tough on massage shops, in fact it's known to be one of the toughest with very strict regulations.

So keep that in mind but let us know if you do end up opening a shop, I'll pay you a visit.

[The Fonz]

Aside from the Hills Shire who must have employed Elliot Ness's great grandson - aka "The Untouchables".
Whats the going $ rate for enforcement officers?

Surely an owner has to budget for such overheads.

[Omen]

Oh there are so many legends about running sex businesses.

Now, massage:

1. Unless you can be licensed (the owner of the business licensed) you stand the risk of the landlord refusing to renew your lease without key money and the council cancelling the DA allowing you to operate OR the council refusing to issue a DA in the first place.

2. It is illegal to advertise massage as a sexual service. Doesn't stop most people doing it - doing it just gives the authorities one more reason to close you down.

3. The council often doesn't have funds to fight you to close down but they can make life hell for you including thousands of dollars in fines for operating illegally (illegally as in not being allowed to operate the type of business at your premises as opposed to illegally offering sexual services).

4. Massage businesses have sprung up everywhere. Just like rival brothel owners, rival massage shop owners can and will complain about you to the police or to the council at some point if you're too successful. Be careful about operating hours allowed at your premises as well - you can't open 24 hours if you're only permitted to trade 8-6pm otherwise more fines and a newspaper article for some upwardly mobile council member are in your future.

5. Chinese style massage is 50%/50% shop/girl with extras going to the girl. Some owners try slightly different business models but generally this is the case. This means a 10 hour day per room you'll be getting about $300 IF YOUR ROOM is utilised 100%. If you know a shop where the girls are operating 100% day in day let me know because I'd like to open a shop next door.

6. Can you trade 7 days per week? Can you trade 6 days per week? Check your lease. Check your council.

7. Girls are flakey. Working girls are fucking flakily. Every girl will have at least one smart arse customer stalking her, trying to get her out of the shop or whisking her away to another shop. Recruitment is such a bastard. If you read/write Chinese maybe you can recruit Chinese girls well. If you read/write Korean likewise. Thai? Thai girls seem more willing to work for other nationalities. Hardcore popular girls like to work for rich white guys who can treat them to a night out at the casino and fuck them BB from midnight to dawn, give them free ice or whatever. But hardcore girls are normally at $250 per hour brothels or escort. They won't be working for $30/hour plus $20 tops for HJ.

8. Embarrassed? Can you be up front with people and say you run a massage business? If you know girls are doing HJ you might be a bit shy about it. If you know they are doing FS you will be shy about it because you don't want to be known as a pimp... do you?

9. Laundry. Any idea how many fucking towels you need to wash per day?

10. Unless your the same nationality as the girls working for you you'll need a receptionist. A cute girl is a good choice. Finding a smart cute girl who isn't working herself is pretty hard. Finding a smart cute girl who works is almost impossible. Marry her if you find one.

11. Don't think of getting freebies without causing jealousy with the girls, losing authority as the owner or having screaming arguments with your number 1 girl du jour while customers are in the shop

In summary, a shop with 3 rooms open 10 hours per day needs:

Around 8 girls on roster
Has 15-30 dodgy men per day coming into your shop - any one of them might be a rival, the council or a wannabe crime boss
Needs 30-60 fresh towels per day (unless you're really down market)
Three boxes of tissues per day
Oil, shower gel (what, no shower?) to serve an army
$200 per week in newspaper and internet advertising
$500 per week (or more) in rent
$50-$75 per day for reception (unless you're doing it yourself or trusting the working girls to not rip you off)
Your profit ... ummm, what profit?

Good luck

I agree with everything excpet number 10. YOu been living under a rock or something theres heaps of smart cute girls with a job!

[Oneonone]

If you want a successful business remember business and pleasure don't mix.

There is no such thing as a feebie, don't see girls that work for you if you need to see a girl go to an opposition shop where you are not known and pay for the service.

[The Fonz]

Most if not all of the "illegal" cash only operations run by people not born here would be paying no or token amounts of tax.
Being Australian born, its much harder to avoid not paying your obligations to the ATO as they will hound you to your grave.
If you come from overseas, you can take the risk (even with a tax treaty), also move some offshore to the country of your birth if you have tax issues. Lets see arrange for you and your family/trusted friends to take tax undeclared amounts less than $10K per month back to the home country.

Putting aside say roughly $280 per day (a conservative figure) from your business equates to around $8000 per month. 12 trips per year carrying $8000 cash per trip by a combination of you and your relatives/friends on "holiday" back to Asia equates to about $100K a year.

Not a great deal you say, but over the years it does add up for investment purposes. A handy retirement nest egg just in case you have to exit the country because the ATO has finally discovered you aren't paying tax.

[The Fonz]

Quote Originally Posted by altgourami View Post
Oh there are so many legends about running sex businesses.

5. Chinese style massage is 50%/50% shop/girl with extras going to the girl. Some owners try slightly different business models but generally this is the case. This means a 10 hour day per room you'll be getting about $300 IF YOUR ROOM is utilised 100%. If you know a shop where the girls are operating 100% day in day let me know because I'd like to open a shop next door.

Your profit ... ummm, what profit?

Good luck
For a well known cash only asian massage joint on the upper North Shore
On average, for a 10 hr day, 3 girls with seeing 4 customers per day (12 customers x $120 per customer- 1hr visits) = $1440 per day. if 50/50 split = $720 per day to the business, $5000 per week.
Rent - choose a premises above a old shop or small office suite an older depressed office building - $700 pw or less.
$5000-$700 = $4300 profit before newspaper advertising, electricity, detergent for washing towels etc.
Fittout of business - nothing expensive at first, just tables and curtains, then plasterboard partitioning done on the cheap, and old washing machine, dryer, microwave etc. Maybe invest latter on thru used furniture etc.
Woman owner managers the day to day operation - not bad earner for her as she would be otherwise sitting at home.
Even better as her partner runs a real estate business.

[AHLUNGOR]

For a well known cash only asian massage joint on the upper North Shore
On average, for a 10 hr day, 3 girls with seeing 4 customers per day (12 customers x $120 per customer- 1hr visits) = $1440 per day. if 50/50 split = $720 per day to the business, $5000 per week.
Rent - choose a premises above a old shop or small office suite an older depressed office building - $700 pw or less.
$5000-$700 = $4300 profit before newspaper advertising, electricity, detergent for washing towels etc.
Fittout of business - nothing expensive at first, just tables and curtains, then plasterboard partitioning done on the cheap, and old washing machine, dryer, microwave etc. Maybe invest latter on thru used furniture etc.
Woman owner managers the day to day operation - not bad earner for her as she would be otherwise sitting at home.
Even better as her partner runs a real estate business.

Interesting calculations!

But if a shop is charging $120 per hour, that would have included body to body and nude HJ , therefore , the shop won't get a 50/50 split, most likely $40-$45 max.

For most RnT shops , they normally charged massage only at $35/$50/$60 and the shops cut will be $20/$25/$30, and there are usually more 30 min sessions than 1 hr session. And the mls keeps all the tips .

If the shop owner can make $400-$500 a day , it's a very good day, so you may want to redo you sums, and for most shops, if they are busy during the week, the weekend especially Sundays will be quiet! Unless you are Newtown 501/532!

Just my two cents.

Cheers

Ps. I think brother altgourami's point 5 above is more realistic !

[woods23]

Good job ahlungor:) .that calculations is for high cost rnt only. Where all the extra(tip) r included.

[Oneonone]

If the shop has 3 rooms most have at least this many some more and they charge $120 per hour.

That's 3 girls at $40 per hour = $ 120 per hour if they are open 10 hours and were busy the whole time would be $1200

Of course the are not going to be busy 10 hours a day but they should be busy at least 60% of the time so that's $720

[The Fonz]

Interesting calculations!

But if a shop is charging $120 per hour, that would have included body to body and nude HJ , therefore , the shop won't get a 50/50 split, most likely $40-$45 max.

For most RnT shops , they normally charged massage only at $35/$50/$60 and the shops cut will be $20/$25/$30, and there are usually more 30 min sessions than 1 hr session. And the mls keeps all the tips .

If the shop owner can make $400-$500 a day , it's a very good day, so you may want to redo you sums, and for most shops, if they are busy during the week, the weekend especially Sundays will be quiet! Unless you are Newtown 501/532!

Just my two cents.

Cheers

Ps. I think brother altgourami's point 5 above is more realistic !
My estimate is conservative, 4 customers per day per girl (10hr opening time) is a low number. You can get a lower tier office suite in Chatswood or Hornsby off the main street in a old office building for about $600pw.
One good day (a Saturday?) the rent would be covered. The other six days any earnings after the girls cut go to the owner.
There must be money to be made in running a massage shop if you are game to ignore council and the taxman. If these places paid the correct tax, then maybe they wouldn't be so viable.
Of course not every day would be a big money spinner, bad weather puts off the customers. But over the entire year I cannot see a massage shop not making money for the owner.
Read my comments about fancy little cars at another joint at Epping

[AHLUNGOR]

My estimate is conservative, 4 customers per day per girl (10hr opening time) is a low number. You can get a lower tier office suite in Chatswood or Hornsby off the main street in a old office building for about $600pw.
One good day (a Saturday?) the rent would be covered. The other six days any earnings after the girls cut go to the owner.
There must be money to be made in running a massage shop if you are game to ignore council and the taxman. If these places paid the correct tax, then maybe they wouldn't be so viable.
Of course not every day would be a big money spinner, bad weather puts off the customers. But over the entire year I cannot see a massage shop not making money for the owner.
Read my comments about fancy little cars at another joint at Epping

Hi brother Fonz,

I agree to most of your points so far, earlier I was simply pointing out that for a $120/hr shop, the split won't be 50/50, that's all, and yes, your estimate was conservative, there are definitely money to be made, otherwise, new massage shops won't be popping up like mushrooms all over Sydney.

And I guess for most MLs, their long term plan is to open her own shop one day!

So watch out horny men in Sydney, there are plenty more to cum !

Literally !!

Have a nice day

Cheers