From SMH

[creed]

This is the second article in two days about this particular complex in Chatswood.

I don't think the shop is an advetiser here so I should be able to post the article without getting banned.


http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/when-a-brothel-moves-in-next-door-20140421-36zrt.html

And just like that business at a busy shop will grind to an almost stop as punters stay away in the fear of being under surveillance.

Times are changing. I'm visiting my favourite shops are much as I can before they are gone.

[clearview]

Its hard to feel sympathy for these illegal brothel operators! NSW has some of most relaxed sex industry laws in the world. Unfortunately some operators are not happy to operate within the law though and break the rules by setting up business in residential building and without the proper licensing approvals. At some point this flouting of the laws will cause a political backlash and a clampdown on all brothels, legal and illegal alike. When this happens everyone loses!

[Oneonone]

Its hard to feel sympathy for these illegal brothel operators! NSW has some of most relaxed sex industry laws in the world. Unfortunately some operators are not happy to operate within the law though and break the rules by setting up business in residential building and without the proper licensing approvals. At some point this flouting of the laws will cause a political backlash and a clampdown on all brothels, legal and illegal alike. When this happens everyone loses!


Could not agree more we punters should not visit these illegal places as in the end we will stuff things up for ourselves!

[loaded]

Its hard to feel sympathy for these illegal brothel operators! NSW has some of most relaxed sex industry laws in the world. Unfortunately some operators are not happy to operate within the law though and break the rules by setting up business in residential building and without the proper licensing approvals. At some point this flouting of the laws will cause a political backlash and a clampdown on all brothels, legal and illegal alike. When this happens everyone loses!

Agree, it's amazing how rife the illegals are especially in residential apartments in the CBD.

[creed]

Agree, it's amazing how rife the illegals are especially in residential apartments in the CBD.

I think an important point is being missed. Most R&T shops are operating illegally if they offer happy endings as they are not licensed to do so.

This will bring attention to every other R&T shop and make life harder for them.

As for pretty baby massage....hope you have a plan B.

[loaded]

I think an important point is being missed. Most R&T shops are operating illegally if they offer happy endings as they are not licensed to do so.

This will bring attention to every other R&T shop and make life harder for them.

As for pretty baby massage....hope you have a plan B.

I think more broadly speaking, this applies to illegal brothels which operate in CBD apartments.

[aussiegaigin]

In this particular case the shops are not operating out of apartments, they are in commercial shop premises at street level. I don't think they are even near the primary residential entrance to the complex (I had a friend living there a few years ago and don't recall passing any shops when I visited).

The council has approved their operation as massage shops. The council should have been aware of what was likely to happen, and perhaps been more restrictive in its DA approvals. I know a few attempts in my local area never got past this stage.

At what point of service does a massge shop become a brothel? I visit massage shops fairly regularly but would not consider going to a full brothel. I don't consider a HJ to be a "sexual service", just a therapy. (just ask Bill Clinton).

[creed]

In this particular case the shops are not operating out of apartments, they are in commercial shop premises at street level. I don't think they are even near the primary residential entrance to the complex (I had a friend living there a few years ago and don't recall passing any shops when I visited).

The council has approved their operation as massage shops. The council should have been aware of what was likely to happen, and perhaps been more restrictive in its DA approvals. I know a few attempts in my local area never got past this stage.

At what point of service does a massge shop become a brothel? I visit massage shops fairly regularly but would not consider going to a full brothel. I don't consider a HJ to be a "sexual service", just a therapy. (just ask Bill Clinton).

According to the law a handjob is a sexual service and requires a brothel license.

[aussiegaigin]

According to the law a handjob is a sexual service and requires a brothel license.

Well, the law should be changed.

Then I won't feel guilty about it.

[rooter]

much ado about nothing
sex sells. Just look at the most viewed articles in the online newspapers. Any article that has the word sex or porn or nude or brothel or prostitute in it is always top of the list

[clearview]

The point is that many people, for whatever reason, dont want a brothel running out of their apartment building.

With all of the unlicensed operators popping up over Sydney rate payers start to complain, the media take notice and the local councils / state government takes action.

NSW currently has its most conservative premier in living memory. When the inevitable crack down happens these dodgy illegal operators will be the ones to blame!

[creed]

much ado about nothing
sex sells. Just look at the most viewed articles in the online newspapers. Any article that has the word sex or porn or nude or brothel or prostitute in it is always top of the list
You are right, sex does sell as long as it's not out of the building you are living in then it's ok.

The reputable and licensed shops are safe. So the professional writers that do ARs for them should have nothing to worry about as it will be business as usual.

[yellow_fever]

According to the law a handjob is a sexual service and requires a brothel license.

You need to do a little more reading. It's true that a handjob is a sexual service, as is a nude massage. The question of whether a license is required or not depends on where you live, since providing sex services is legal in NSW. In Sydney, 2 girls can operate out of a house without any license legally. If they live in an apartment then most apartments have rules against running any kind of commercial operation from the building whether it's a brothel, mechanic, office etc. Nothing illegal going on though, and no license required. If it's in a standalone building, then perfectly legal. Not the same case in all councils though, and most councils do not allow home sex work.

When it comes to those RnT's, though, they're in shit. They haven't done anything illegal, since sex work is legal in NSW, and they're working out of a commercial premise so that's fine. The problem then is a civil matter, no different from running a restaurant without a license.

[lockhart]

Well said Brother Yellow Fever.

[CunningLinguist]

Any of you guys ever been to Japan ...

[creed]

You need to do a little more reading. It's true that a handjob is a sexual service, as is a nude massage. The question of whether a license is required or not depends on where you live, since providing sex services is legal in NSW. In Sydney, 2 girls can operate out of a house without any license legally. If they live in an apartment then most apartments have rules against running any kind of commercial operation from the building whether it's a brothel, mechanic, office etc. Nothing illegal going on though, and no license required. If it's in a standalone building, then perfectly legal. Not the same case in all councils though, and most councils do not allow home sex work.

When it comes to those RnT's, though, they're in shit. They haven't done anything illegal, since sex work is legal in NSW, and they're working out of a commercial premise so that's fine. The problem then is a civil matter, no different from running a restaurant without a license.

You are right it's just like running restaurant without a license.

[IExperiment]

If they put cameras in common area and advertise, I am sure it will have an effect on business.

[yellow_fever]

You are right it's just like running restaurant without a license.

I sense the sarcasm ;-) but sensationalism aside, in the eyes of the law it is the same as running a restaurant without a license. The fines are no more severe, and generally there are no on the spot fines just letters saying 'get a license or stop doing it'. This is not an illegal activity. The police will not respond to this sort of issue, it's a civil matter. The media still likes to demonise the industry with sensationalist buzzwords like 'sleaze, criminal, sex trafficking' etc, but it's empty. The less exciting reality as we all know is that these establishments are fairly discrete, cautious, and staffed by average girls working of their own free will looking for a bit of extra money.

The woods inquiry recommended decriminalising the industry and it came into effect in 1995, largely to avoid police corruption, but also to improve the working conditions for those in the industry. The government left it up to local councils to license this legitimate business just as they do any other, but with stern warnings that they can't put so many conditions on the opening of brothels as to make it impossible (as some councils have done!). Often when potential brothel owners take local councils to the LEC, the courts side with the brothel owners. This is a legitimate legal business to open.

There is strong resistance to opening of brothels by local residents generally, and many existing license brothels took the well worn path of massage parlor->RNT->unlicensed brothel->licensed brothel, often with many changes in ownership over that time. Most councils don't show a lot of interest unless there are complaints, and one of the best points applicants bring up is "we've been operating for 5 years with no complaints, give us a license". Not saying that's the way to go, just saying that's how it's often done.

[yellow_fever]

Any of you guys ever been to Japan ...

Only about 20 times. Kinda pricey! Plenty of high school girls selling themselves though, check out the photo booth stickers on every public payphone.

[clearview]

brothel operators must comply with local council land use policies and almost all brothels (usually those with 2 women or more - ie. the types of brothels mentioned in the media article) require DA approval.

The point is that the NSW government has taken a very hands-off approach to regulation of the local sex work industry. These dodgy illegal brothels (yes, if they operate without council approval they are illegal) will kill the goose that lays the golden egg and ruin things for everyone!


You need to do a little more reading. It's true that a handjob is a sexual service, as is a nude massage. The question of whether a license is required or not depends on where you live, since providing sex services is legal in NSW. In Sydney, 2 girls can operate out of a house without any license legally. If they live in an apartment then most apartments have rules against running any kind of commercial operation from the building whether it's a brothel, mechanic, office etc. Nothing illegal going on though, and no license required. If it's in a standalone building, then perfectly legal. Not the same case in all councils though, and most councils do not allow home sex work.

When it comes to those RnT's, though, they're in shit. They haven't done anything illegal, since sex work is legal in NSW, and they're working out of a commercial premise so that's fine. The problem then is a civil matter, no different from running a restaurant without a license.

[yellow_fever]

brothel operators must comply with local council land use policies and almost all brothels (usually those with 2 women or more - ie. the types of brothels mentioned in the media article) require DA approval.

The point is that the NSW government has taken a very hands-off approach to regulation of the local sex work industry. These dodgy illegal brothels (yes, if they operate without council approval they are illegal) will kill the goose that lays the golden egg and ruin things for everyone!

I agree with you, but most local councils are strongly resistant to the opening of new brothels. Thankfully most councils have come to recognise that industrial areas are not the appropriate place for this (though some still do think that way!) and brothels are where they belong - in discreet places in residential/commercial areas. Unfortunately, many councils still try to put unrealistic conditions on new brothel DA's regarding parking, street set back, must be up stairs but have handicapped access, etc. Most of these conditions are overturned in the LEC if you have $$$ but should be recognised for what they are - unfairly disadvantaging and restricting legitimate legal businesses.

See also my post #18 regards to the commonly tread path of massage shop to licensed brothel.

[Sergaent Brody]

According to the law a handjob is a sexual service and requires a brothel license.

Bill Clinton will have something to say about that

[clearview]

yes brothels have the right to be treated as 100% legit businesses but its also true that councils have the right to regulate these businesses in the way they choose and as they think their constituency would want

and so many people would not want a blowjob bar to be located next to a school or an r+t parlour next to a church. You may have a different opinion but I suspect this is the broad community sentiment and councils have the right to set land use policies accordingly

I guess what I'm saying is that comparing a brothel to a restaurant is apples and oranges. Id say the sort of issues a council might consider with a brothel would be similar to an adult book store - ie keep it discrete and contained (in a dedicated precinct area, no street prescence, etc)

but back to my original point. You may think the nsw sex industry laws are harsh but really by any measure they are extremely leniant and permissive. The flouting of these laws has already resulted in negative media coverage / moral panic within the community / and a parliamentary review into sex industry regulation

what replaces current laws will be tougher and more restrictive. I tell you brothers, the illegal and unlicensed brothels (including the ones advertising on this site!) are ruining things for everyone