Classic Poetry for your "Interest & Pleasure" back by popular demand - 14.3% of vote.

[SmilingGiraffe]

An original poem of the classical tradition.
All considered comments and critiques are welcome.


Lucifer’s Prison:

What can be said that has not been spoken,
What treasures are left to find,
And who can bring great words, not token,
From deep within their mind.

It is now world’s way to let us speak and provide,
And to create a thunderous din,
So loud that we cannot easily divide,
Sacred truth from mortal sin.

We let them dance so long before us,
With their evil, wanton eyes,
So that we leave virtue’s garden with little fuss,
Until our minds are left broken and dry.

They divide by design to weaken our souls,
And they work their spells too well,
So that the stories of old cannot be told,
Leaving a descent into the bleakness of hell.

Yet hope springs eternal with every dawn,
And minds can soon be enlightened,
To raise up their hearts with each new morn,
And stop cowering, weak and frightened.

Speaketh the words that brighten the soul,
To make our hearts and spirits risen,
Take us from the dark night cold,
And from the walls of Lucifer’s prison.


Cheers.....
Looking forward to your considered opinions.

[greybeard_]

There's nothing inherently wrong with rhyming poetry if its done well. You don't do it well. Your reliance on paired rhymes and its forced meter makes your poetry sound childish and unpleasant to read. My advice - experiement with free verse and see how that turns out. Also, you have a sterile and uninteresting personality so perhaps try to find your creative inspiration from the outside world rather than from within your own mind.

[SmilingGiraffe]

There's nothing inherently wrong with rhyming poetry if its done well. You don't do it well. Your reliance on paired rhymes and its forced meter makes your poetry sound childish and unpleasant to read. My advice - experiement with free verse and see how that turns out. Also, you have a sterile and uninteresting personality so perhaps try to find your creative inspiration from the outside world rather than from within your own mind.

My catalogue of poetry includes all styles: blank verse, rhyming pairs, rhyming non-pairs, prose and various others.
You seem to suggest that rhyming poetry is somehow inferior to blank verse or prose. It is an opinion prevalent
in many who don't write or understand poetry. I like rhyming poetry as I like prose, I make no judgement on style,
but rather the content. Blake, Wordsworth, Tennyson, Coleridege all included rhyming poetry in their repertoire.
Your comment, as with many others of yours I'm afraid, suggests you're not a happy chappy, and that you have
a preference for spreading bile.

By the way, most poets I know find rhyming poetry to be easily the most difficult style in which to operate.
Many so-called poets who concentrate on prose, do so because they are unable to undertake the heavy load of rhyme.

[greybeard_]

First sentence of my previous comment:


There's nothing inherently wrong with rhyming poetry if its done well. You don't do it well.

[SmilingGiraffe]

You're too kind to take such an interest, sugarplum.

[Sextus]

Many so-called poets who concentrate on prose, do so because they are unable to undertake the heavy load of rhyme.

Yeah, I'm not particularly interested enough and that supersedes - think I'll stick to what I know.

I'm not much of a poetry critic therefore, as I've said everytime one of these is posted. When it comes to such postings I'm more interested in the perhaps lesser art of entertainment and amusement, and this one, like the others, qualify in that regard for me.

Greybeard's considered comments show that he also gave some attention to the poem. (Smilinggiraffe you'll have to wait for a more considered analysis from me.)

I'm greatly amused by humbleness deficits because you are never quite sure how much irony is part of the self-praise. In my case fuck all! :shout: I think just about everything is worth a laugh though, so even a perceived lack of humility tickles my funnybone. Few get away with it: success is proportionate to the wit with which it is practiced - as with Muhummad Ali and Oscar Wilde.

(Wilde for example, visiting the US for the first time on a speaking tour, was asked at customs if he had anything to declare.
"Only my genius" he replied. :shout: )

You don't have to be as good as them, but you can aspire, and even succeed occasionally.

[Steven Seagal]

Hi All,

Consider my poem:


There once was a tranny named Sandy
Who had a daytime job as a nanny.

Although she changed nappies quick
She had a small prick

But she claimed her arse was just dandy.

Steven

[SmilingGiraffe]

Hi All,

Consider my poem:


There once was a tranny named Sandy
Who had a daytime job as a nanny.

Although she changed nappies quick
She had a small prick

But she claimed her arse was just dandy.

Steven

This shows promise, did I inspire you or have you been practising for a while?
It's somewhat like a limerick, well it is in fact a limerick,
but that's of no matter, there is definite potential here.
And the content excites me, I've always wanted to fuck a cute tranny.

[wannabe]

This shows promise, did I inspire you or have you been practising for a while?
It's somewhat like a limerick, well it is in fact a limerick,
but that's of no matter, there is definite potential here.
And the content excites me, I've always wanted to fuck a cute tranny.
I think he means you are the tranny with the small dick:shout:

[SmilingGiraffe]

Yeah, I'm more interested in the perhaps lesser art of entertainment and amusement, and this one, like the others, qualify in that regard for me.

Greybeard's considered comments show that he also gave some attention to the poem. (Smilinggiraffe you'll have to wait for a more considered analysis from me.)

I'm greatly amused by humbleness deficits because you are never quite sure how much irony is part of the self-praise. (Wilde for example, visiting the US for the first time on a speaking tour, was asked at customs if he had anything to declare. "Only my genius" he replied. :shout: )

You don't have to be as good as them, but you can aspire, and even succeed occasionally.

Thanks Sextus, you are so often the voice of reason.....of the subject poem my preferred verse is...

"They divide by design to weaken our souls,
And they work their spells too well,
So that the stories of old cannot be told,
Leaving a descent into the bleakness of hell."

I have read how Wordsworth and Tennyson often returned to previous poems and re-wrote parts,
or edited them just a little. Perhaps the above poem is so hot off the press that it requires some editing,
it would be wonderful if Ezra Pound was here to mentor me a little. Good old Ezra, he assisted TS Elliot,
WB Yeats, James Joyce, and Ernest Hemingway.....and few people even remember him.

[greybeard_]

Nice work Steven! Sublime and powerful poetry. I enjoyed that immensely. Thank you.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, as you correctly note, that was of course a POEM and not a LIMERICK.

I guess Captain Poo failed to take note of your skillfull use of assonance and iambic pentameter. Please ignore the plebians and rest assured that your art is appreciated and understood by a select few.

Bravo!


Hi All,

Consider my poem:


There once was a tranny named Sandy
Who had a daytime job as a nanny.

Although she changed nappies quick
She had a small prick

But she claimed her arse was just dandy.

Steven

[SmilingGiraffe]

Nice work Steven! Sublime and powerful poetry. I enjoyed that immensely. Thank you.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, as you correctly note, that was of course a POEM and not a LIMERICK.

I guess Captain Poo failed to take note of your skillfull use of assonance and iambic pentameter. Please ignore the plebians and rest assured that your art is appreciated and understood by a select few.

Bravo!

You are rather easily pleased sugarplum. I guess you're mick, or at least of Irish descent, to appreciate five line limericks.

[Licker]

Never be rude to an Arab
An Israeli, or Saudi, or Jew
Never be rude to an Irishman
No matter what you do

Never poke fun at a Nigger
A Spic, or a Wop, or a Kraut
And never poke fun at...

...cause he'll just explode
and then gets banned again.

Should I start a career in fortune telling business?


Thanks to Terry Jones for the original lyrics

[SmilingGiraffe]

Licker: Should I start a career in fortune telling business?

My dear fellow, you really out to have commented on the original post - i.e the wonderful poem.
I know you have an interest in poetic literature and you have shown a lot of promise in the past.
I look forward to your considered comments in the near future, truly.

[greybeard_]

Well, well, well.

So you're a closeted old queer are you Captain Poo? hmmmm? Is that right?

A closeted dirty old queer with a transexual fetish who doesn't know the difference between a poem and a limerick? Is that what you're telling us sugar plum?

Your a seriously creepy dude ... creeeeepy!


And the content excites me, I've always wanted to fuck a cute tranny.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Well, well, well.

Your a seriously creepy dude ... creeeeepy!


"You are" dear fellow or perhaps "you're" but certainly not "your" please take time with your English.
If you are going to swipe away, please get your English correct when doing so.

[greybeard_]

'cetainly'?

I assume you mean 'certainly' you illiterate old queer.

If you insist upon being a nit picking pedant at least use the spell check yourself before you hit send

[SmilingGiraffe]

I think he means you are the tranny with the small dick:shout:

Well done "wannabe." I appreciate your comment. You made a moderate attempt at humour, and you were moderately successful.
This is to be commended.

[SmilingGiraffe]

I'm still waiting for your considered critique Licker, be a good fellow.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Wilisno, you are conspicuous by your absence, be a good chap and make a considered critique of my poem.
I'm interested in your opinion, truly.

[greybeard_]

I suggested before that you write about something that you are passionate about Captain Poo.

So ... perhaps you should write a poem about your passionate love of cute male transexuals???

Think to yourself - what is it about cute male transexuals that really gets your dick hard Captain Poo? What would you like to do a cute male transexual if you had the opportunity? what would you ask a cute male transexual to do to you?

Don't hold back Captain Poo - channel all that frustrated homosexual lust that you've had pent up for long, visualise all of those long masterbatory sessions in which you fantasised about cute male transexual cock, be inspired and put your pen to paper!!

This is your moment to shine Captain Poo - this poem will be your Opus, this will be how your are remembered!

[SmilingGiraffe]

I suggested before that you write about something that you are passionate about Captain Poo.

So ... perhaps you should write a poem about your passionate love of cute male transexuals???

Think to yourself - what is it about cute male transexuals that really gets your dick hard Captain Poo? What would you like to do a cute male transexual if you had the opportunity? what would you ask a cute male transexual to do to you?

Don't hold back Captain Poo - channel all that frustrated homosexual lust that you've had pent up for long, visualise all of those long masterbatory sessions in which you fantasised about cute male transexual cock, be inspired and put your pen to paper!!

This is your moment to shine Captain Poo - this poem will be your Opus, this will be how your are remembered!


You seem to be infatuated with me, how interesting.....are you a good looking ladyboy?
Some ladyboys are more feminine than females these days. If you are, I might be interested.
But I don't think you are, unfortunately.
Never mind, please continue to be infatuated with me, you're not the first. (ps. notice *you're*)
We poets don't mind a little infatuation.

[SmilingGiraffe]

I'm still waiting for your considered critique Licker, be a good fellow.

Licker, I know you have a reasonable mind, be a dear and do your thing in terms of a poetic critique.

[wilisno]

Wilisno, you are conspicuous by your absence, be a good chap and make a considered critique of my poem.
I'm interested in your opinion, truly.
What poem ??? Have you written a poem ? Please don't insult the poets abd poetry ! :miao:

[SmilingGiraffe]

What poem ??? Have you written a poem ? Please don't insult the poets abd poetry ! :miao:

We all look forward to you showing us what you can do Wilisno.....we'll be waiting for a while I think.

[wilisno]

We all look forward to you showing us what you can do Wilisno.....we'll be waiting for a while I think.
Who's " we " ?

I'm sure a lot of people will be offended to be called your peers ! You don't represent them !

I'm not known for writing poems, because this is not a site for writing poem, this is a site for writing sexual experience if you haven't noticed !

[CunningLinguist]

There's nothing inherently wrong with rhyming poetry if its done well. You don't do it well. Your reliance on paired rhymes and its forced meter makes your poetry sound childish and unpleasant to read. My advice - experiement with free verse and see how that turns out. Also, you have a sterile and uninteresting personality so perhaps try to find your creative inspiration from the outside world rather than from within your own mind.

I never bothered to read the poem, but this critique seems pretty good, and confirms my initial decision to skip the poem ...

[SmilingGiraffe]

Who's " we " ?

I'm sure a lot of people will be offended to be called your peers ! You don't represent them !

I'm not known for writing poems, because this is not a site for writing poem, this is a site for writing sexual experience if you haven't noticed !

Human beings are complex creatures, with various different aspects impacting on their human condition and sexual experience.
If we explore what we feel and how we think, we can heighten our wareness and appreciation of all things, including the sexual experience.
The mind is so important for experience. We are thinking, social beings, we are not simply units of consumption and production.

[wilisno]

Human beings are complex creatures, with various different aspects impacting on their human condition and sexual experience.
If we explore what we feel and how we think, we can heighten our wareness and appreciation of all things, including the sexual experience.
The mind is so important for experience. We are thinking, social beings, we are not simply units of consumption and production.

Feel free to explore what you want, but if you try to impose your childish will on others, that's what makes you the most ridiculed person on the forum ! :miao:

[SmilingGiraffe]

I never bothered to read the poem, but this critique seems pretty good, and confirms my initial decision to skip the poem ...

You didn't read the poem, but someone else's critique is pretty good, .........that's an interesting commentary.
Good of you to come along anyway, I know it's hard to stay away from the light.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Feel free to explore what you want, but if you try to impose your childish will on others, that's what makes you the most ridiculed person on the forum ! :miao:

You are somewhat prone to exaggeration wilisno, but at least you now say I'm free to explore what I want, so I think we are making progress.
My perspective is simple; there are humans and there are animals. Humans are complex, varied, thinking creatures, whereas animals are
simplistic, more uniform in behaviour, and instinctive. It is better not to confuse one with the other, I think. I don't seek to impose, only to discuss.

[AHLUNGOR]

A Chinese Poem any one ??

[wilisno]

You are somewhat prone to exaggeration wilisno, but at least you now say I'm free to explore what I want, so I think we are making progress.
My perspective is simple; there are humans and there are animals. Humans are complex, varied, thinking creatures, whereas animals are
simplistic, more uniform in behaviour, and instinctive. It is better not to confuse one with the other, I think. I don't seek to impose, only to discuss.

Yes, there are human and there are animals on this forum, like the fake lion, Monkey, Toad and Girraffe. And yes, do not confuse one with the other, and use the pronoun " we " to represent them ! :miao:

[AHLUNGOR]

A Chinese Poem any one ??

二十四橋明月夜
玉人何處教吹簫

24 bridges under the Moonlight.
Where is Lady Jade teaching the blowjob ?

[SmilingGiraffe]

A Chinese Poem any one ??

Good idea AL.....you give us a couple of verses of famous Chinese poem translated to English.
Then maybe I can do a critique, for a change.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Hi there Mr Crash and Burn, the subject poem kicks off this thread, please take your time to make a considered review.

cheers......

[Mr Crash and Burn]

Very good poem.

Deep within it lies a broken punter or L, either waiting for their next good punt or their next good customer.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Very good poem.

Deep within it lies a broken punter or L, either waiting for their next good punt or their next good customer.

You have impeccable taste, thanks so much dear fellow.

Your insights are not without some foundation. But, I do have a highly multi-faceted personality,
so, at times, I can be a little uncertain of the miniscule detail of my particular perspective.
But, if I'm ever uncertain, it is only on a very limited number of occasions, and only a little bit. (I think).

Well that's my story and I'm sticking with it....haha. Thanks again for your very kind review.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Is the interest and demand for fine poetry beginning to grow? Could be!

[Sextus]

Is the interest and demand for fine poetry beginning to grow?

Yes, so when are we going to get it? :shout:

[SmilingGiraffe]

Yes, so when are we going to get it? :shout:

You're a smart cookie Sextus, and I like you. But you do have a mischievous side.
I'm genuinely salivating at the prospect of submitting the next poem. However,
I did agree, on the election result, to one submission every seven days, or thereabouts.
Yet, there was a caveat which covered the possibility of a growth in interest and demand.
Mr Crash & Burn gave a wonderful review, and this has effectively doubled my vote.
I find myself in something of a quandary - should I take a punt and submit another poem within
the seven days parameter? Or should I seek advice from those with "evenness of the two hands both"
like Wilisno? He/she has grown on me a little bit in recent times, much more reasonable I feel.
Oh dear me....decisions, decisions. What am I to do Sextus?

[SmilingGiraffe]

I'm still deliberating over the exciting news of the increasing level of interest in my fine poetry.
I'll certainly keep you posted with my thoughts, but your advice is always welcome mon ami.
Pending all advice and considerations, I will maintain my commitment to submit a poem once per week.
So the next one is schediuled for fri/sat this week. But that could change, because I do want to keep my readers happy.

[SmilingGiraffe]

Yes, so when are we going to get it? :shout:

I think I'll wait until late Friday or Saturday to submit my next poem, thereby
honouring my commitment to one per week, following the vote. Yes, I have
had additional support since the vote, so demand is increasing, but I don't want
to put undue pressure on myself to deliver such top quality material in quick succession.
I don't want to burn out, I've only got a catalogue of 200 or so. haha

[Sextus]

I'm still deliberating over the exciting news of the increasing level of interest in my fine poetry.


Well my interest is more of a steady state than an increasing one, and you may be putting an optimistic spin on things. What broad themes do you think your poetic motivations encompass?

[SmilingGiraffe]

Well my interest is more of a steady state than an increasing one, and you may be putting an optimistic spin on things. What broad themes do you think your poetic motivations encompass?

Did you see the kind review/comment from Mr Crash & Burn? He said it was a very good poem.
I think if people look at the poetry with an open mind, they will see something they enjoy or appreciate.
So yes I'm optimistic, but it's gonna be a relatively slow progression, being sensibly realistic too.

Anyway, like other enthusiasts of the fine art of poetry, I try to cover a wide spectrum of life,
but generally I'm writing about people/women, the spirit/soul, natural flora/fauna, and natural landscape.
I like to think I'm a nice blend of Wordsworth, Tennyson, Kipling, Keats & Blake and a couple of others.

I try to write one poem per day, so I've got plenty to choose from. I'm already looking forward to the next
submission on saturday; something quite different from the last one I think, variety is the spice of life.
Good onya Sextus.

[SmilingGiraffe]

The next poetic submission of creative genius is now scheduled for Saturday. In the interests of variety, it will be "lighter" than the previous one.
I have several love oriented/semi-erotic pieces, one of which will be chosen for your reading pleasure and considered review.
I look forward to your comments on Saturday or soon after.

[SmilingGiraffe]

The next poetic submission of creative genius is now scheduled for Saturday. In the interests of variety, it will be "lighter" than the previous one.
I have several love oriented/semi-erotic pieces, one of which will be chosen for your reading pleasure and considered review.
I look forward to your comments on Saturday or soon after.

I'm very much looking forward to the scheduled issue of my next piece of creative poetic literature, some minor fine tuning is underway prior to Saturday's issue.

See you later gentlefolk......

[Tomosavic]

I'm very much looking forward to the scheduled issue of my next piece of creative poetic literature, some minor fine tuning is underway prior to Saturday's issue.

See you later gentlefolk......
OMG! You even pm me asking for comments on your poem, how many people have you pm'ed?

My comment is: stop writing

[SmilingGiraffe]

OMG! You even pm me asking for comments on your poem, how many people have you pm'ed?

My comment is: stop writing

Creativity, in all its merry forms, is the quintessential essence of the human condition. Promoting such is a noble endeavour.
I wish I could thank you for your ill-considered response. But whatever I say to you is bound to fall on the deafest of ears.
Saturday's upcoming poem is a love-oriented/semi-erotic literary piece, you ought to be salivating by now with your fancy already tickled.

[CunningLinguist]

OMG! You even pm me asking for comments on your poem, how many people have you pm'ed?

My comment is: stop writing

Thanks Tomasavic for the intel!
To SG:
How pathetic that you are PMing members to say something about your "poetry".
You really are a sad case, your worst fear of being ignored seems to be coming true, perhaps it is time to ...

BTW I have updated the banned page to list this under the "poetry" section: here (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)

[wilisno]

Thanks Tomasavic for the intel!
To SG:
How pathetic that you are PMing members to say something about your "poetry".
You really are a sad case, your worst fear of being ignored seems to be coming true, perhaps it is time to ...
He should just pm his few known comrades for a safe reply ! ;) ;) ;)

[SmilingGiraffe]

Promotion of the creative arts is a very noble endeavour, most especially when promoted among the heathen.

[Sextus]

He tried to impersonate a Frenchman doing fake ARs but was exposed as not actually being able to speak French.

Aah, memories, memories... I was often having very good chuckles about that at the time. Colourful? Well - Tri-colourful at least! :shout:


- And worst of all, he writes bad poetry :)

I love that we are all custodians and protectors, in our own way, of the standard of art in the community. We care enough about it to sometimes account it the worst sin - against sensibilities at least. :shout:

[CunningLinguist]

Promotion of the creative arts is a very noble endeavour, most especially when promoted among the heathen.

So Tomasivic won't pander to you and you call him a heathen now, I'm sure you would have had something nice to say about him if he commented on your poem.
You are so transparent and despicable! (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)

[CunningLinguist]

Aah, memories, memories... I was often having very good chuckles about that at the time. Colourful? Well - Tri-colourful at least! :shout:



I love that we are all custodians and protectors, in our own way, of the standard of art in the community. We care enough about it to account it the worst sin - against sensibilities at least. :shout:

I really miss that guillotine post of yours, shame it was deleted when all of his posts were deleted for very bad behaviour! (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)

[SmilingGiraffe]

So Tomasivic won't pander to you and you call him a heathen now, I'm sure you would have had something nice to say about him if he commented on your poem.
You are so transparent and despicable! (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again)

The majority of punters have already espoused their atheism on numerous occasions and on many threads - so they are heathens.
I would have thought being called a heathen is some kind of compliment to them. C'est la vie on the forum.

[CunningLinguist]

The majority of punters have already espoused their atheism on numerous occasions and on many threads - so they are heathens.
I would have thought being called a heathen is some kind of compliment to them. C'est la vie on the forum.

I know you have been banned again (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) but I know you are still reading as a guest so for completeness one last translation of SG trollspeak: "Most aus99 members are heathens, and I am superior to them!"

Oh and I suppose we won't be hearing any more poetry from SG, what a shame and I was just starting to get into it ... :)

[wilisno]

I know you have been banned again (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) but I know you are still reading as a guest so for completeness one last translation of SG trollspeak: "Most aus99 members are heathens, and I am superior to them!"

Oh and I suppose we won't be hearing any more poetry from SG, what a shame and I was just starting to get into it ... :)

Well ! He predicted this with this thread title : " By popular demand ", he's now banned !:miao:

[CunningLinguist]

I know you have been banned again (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?39297-Banned-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again-and-again) but I know you are still reading as a guest so for completeness one last translation of SG trollspeak: "Most aus99 members are heathens, and I am superior to them!"

Oh and I suppose we won't be hearing any more poetry from SG, what a shame and I was just starting to get into it ... :)

Just for old times sake, in the spirit of bad poetry:
Their once was a troll massage shop owner,
who insulted the very people that could be his clientele!
With the slightest hint of poetry support he would get a boner,
and the consensus is he should go to ...

[Sextus]

I'm a nice blend of Wordsworth, Tennyson, Kipling, Keats & Blake and a couple of others.


With that kind of heritage, a Pulitzer couldn't have been far off. Couldn't admin have waited at least until after Saturday's poem? He was showing some restraint and keeping to his word about the poetry posting frequency. Admin is the harshest poetry critic of all! :sweat:

[wilisno]

With that kind of heritage, a Pulitzer couldn't have been far off. Couldn't admin have waited at least until after Saturday's poem? He was showing some restraint and keeping to his word about the poetry posting frequency. Admin is the harshest poetry critic of all! :sweat:
I think if he chose to have you as his private audience, he would have been alright ! :miao:

[Sextus]

Part of the fun was sharing it with a very sceptical audience. No-one probably reads much poetry otherwise - I know I don't!

[CunningLinguist]

With that kind of heritage, a Pulitzer couldn't have been far off. Couldn't admin have waited at least until after Saturday's poem? He was showing some restraint and keeping to his word about the poetry posting frequency. Admin is the harshest poetry critic of all! :sweat:

Just for the record the vote for his poetry was a resounding no, but in his usual twisted ways he went back on his worthless word and went ahead with it anyway.

[wilisno]

Part of the fun was sharing it with a very sceptical audience. No-one probably reads much poetry otherwise - I know I don't!

That's what I said, if he just chose his private audience without forcing others to take notice of it, he would have been ok !