Just friends with the opposite sex?

[RoyalFlush]

Inspired by Leonard's comments


Being able to manage a platonic non-sexual relationship with a member of the opposite sex is a sign of maturity. Stop seeing women as fuck holes and be an adult.
*Slight edit applied

Is it a question of maturity if one is able to maintain a non-sexual relationship with the opposite sex? As a guy, can you be just friends with a girl? Does your answer change if she is an attractive girl?
Is it wrong for a guy to approach girls with an intent to make her your gf? Otherwise dont approach at all?

No fighting please. Just normal, peaceful discussion or I will ask Clive to cockslide on you.
(Im sure clive will be happy to)

[Mr. Who]

I don't think I can manage such a relationship, although I cannot rule out the possibility that I am not yet mature. Perhaps the most likely situation where this relationship is possible is when both parties have partners. But in that case I just find it weird if these 2 people still spend a lot of time with each other.

[rage_face]

Very pertinent topic given what I have recently been through, thanks for starting the thread.

This is one of those age old questions that seems to divide mostly men and women. There are so many issues that need to be explored, that it cannot be a simple question such as "can men and women be just friends?"

Firstly, I'd like to say that maturity has nothing to do with it. I don't think it makes sense to say "if you can't be friends with a woman, then you are not mature". It is similar to saying "if you can't be friends with women, then you are a d*ckhead". It is shaming language and reasoning designed to guilt you.

Second, we need to define what "friends" means. I have a good female friend who is married with kids. I might meet her for lunch during work 1-2 times each fortnight. We get along well and can talk about philosophical topics to money to relationships. I also have female acquaintances - girls I used to work with, girls I went to uni with - who I see from time to time, mostly in a group setting. The only exception is one girl I used to work with who I also meet for work lunches every now and then, and she is married.

What is noticeable from all this is that I don't meet single girls outside of work one on one - unless I am interested in them.

So how do we define friends for the purposes of this topic? I think it has to be a single girl, who you see on a one on one basis, outside of work, at least once a fortnight who you are not sexually attracted to. I don't think we can include girls who have a boyfriend/husband because they are spoken for. I don't think you can girls who you have lunch with from work. I don't think you can count girls who you see like once every 6 months. They might be "friends", but for the purposes of this topic, I think friends means someone you see on a regular and consistent time frame.

So going by my definition, can you be just friends with a girl? Maybe, but I don't see why any guy would do it. Why does the guy prefer to hang out with this girl rather than any guy friends he has? Why does the girl prefer to hang out with him rather than any girl friends she has? There has to be something outside of sexual attraction that keeps these two people together. Maybe they do share a genuine friendship, but there will always be things they can't talk about - blowjobs, periods etc. The dynamics of it is just so different from a same sex relationship, because same sex friends understand each other biologically, mentally and physiologically.

And let's be honest as guys here, we are thinking about sex all the time, even when we're not supposed to. If you are hanging out with a platonic female friend, surely sex and what she looks like naked has crossed your mind. If she offered you sex, would you take it? If the answer is yes, you're not "just friends". If the answer is no, then I'd really like to hear the reasons why you prefer to hang out with her apart from anybody else.

This "friendship" is also ultimately doomed to breakdown. When either one of you gets a boyfriend/girlfriend, you will spend less time with your friend. If you try to keep it up, your boyfriend/girlfriend may start to seriously question your relationship with this person and trouble always starts like that. The same doesn't apply with same sex friends. Your partner will just see it as a "boys night out" or a "girls night out".

What if she is an attractive girl? Well like I said above, if you're willing to have sex with her, then that's not a friendship. Friends don't want to bang friends.

I also don't see why it is wrong for guys to approach a girl for romantic purposes and choose not to approach if not. I have never met a guy who looked at a girl and thought "damn, I really want to be her friend but not have sex with her". Do girls do this? I don't know.

Because of my situation, I have been doing some light research and found this article (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201304/can-men-and-women-be-just-friends). What's interesting is how you look at a man/woman relationship once you have broken down the elements. The article talks about this in terms of benefits/costs of the relationship:


Bleske and Buss (2000) surveyed college students regarding the benefits and costs of opposite sex friendships in their lives. In general, many of these benefits and costs were the same for both men and women. For example, both sexes enjoyed opposite-sex friends for dinner companions, conversation partners, self-esteem boosts, information about the opposite sex, social status, respect, and sharing resources. Both sexes also noted some similar costs of opposite-sex friendship, such as jealousy, confusion over the status of the relationship, love not being reciprocated, cruel or mean behaviors, and being less attractive to other potential daters because of the friendship.

And here is where men and women really differ:


Male and female responses did differ on a few key items though. Men were more likely to see sex and romantic potential in an opposite sex friend as a benefit (women primarily saw it as a cost). As a result, men were also more likely than women to say that they had sex with an opposite sex friend (22% vs. 11%). Men were also more likely to report friendship costs of lowered self-worth and giving time to help the friend, while women found their own inability to reciprocate the male's attraction as costly. Therefore, when friendships did not turn sexual or romantic, men were often left feeling rejected and used (i.e. "friend zoned"), while women felt uncomfortable with the unequal attraction.

Men see sex as a benefit. Women see sex as a cost. If you are "friends" with a girl and she offers you sex, that's a benefit to you, but it is a COST to her. She actually sees it as a cost! Men also saw time as a cost. If you think of it biologically, men are driven to reproduce at as many given opportunities as possible. We spend time looking for sex, so any time spent not looking for sex is costing you time you could otherwise use to look for sex.

Another interesting bit is this:


Women also had their own unique costs and benefits of opposite-sex friendships. They were more likely to experience the benefit of their male friends paying for outings and enjoyed the physical protection of those friends (men saw these as costs of time and money). Women also enjoyed the ability to network through male friends. However, as noted above, women found it costly when those male friends desired sex or romance. They also disliked when their male friends caused difficulty in the women's other dating efforts.

Now, bear with me for a second and just think of us humans as animals. Because after all, that's all we are, right? Animals. So think of us as like a group of monkeys. In this group there are males and females. The females in this group enjoy being part of the group because males provide for them and protect them. So that's their benefit. But at the same time, for the males to provide and protect, this is a cost to them, and yet they are not getting anything in return. So why would you do it if you are not getting anything in return?

At the end of the day, I think women who want men around to be "friends" are just keeping them around as "emergency dicks" (as Chris Rock would say). If a man and woman are friends and they have different needs out of the relationship, I think it should end, because to keep it going means one party will suffer (eg. guy doesn't get sex and provides and protects, or woman gets provided for and protection but has to put up with sex).

One question that I would like to add is, when a guy and girl are friends, and one starts developing feelings for the other, what should he/she do?

[Oneonone]

Women are lovely

you have to get it all in prospective some women are off limits

For me it simple my wife's friends relatives etc

This seems to be a simple thing and something that comes quite naturally.

All other women are fair game!

Get some limits or boundaries and go for it!

G

[Leonard]

The majority of my friends are women. sure I also have good friends who are male but I tend to enjoy their company of women a lot more

I often hang out with female friends on a one on one basis, go to dinner together or see a move, play tennis whatever. Its not a sexual thing just friends. (Btw im in a relationship and my GF has no issue with this bc she trusts me)

regarding the friend / gf thing you mentioned before. It seems like you pretend to be friends with a girl only as a means of fucking her or conning her into a relationship. And then when that strategy fails you tell them you dont want to be friends anyway which is a really shitty attitude and totally unfair to the girl

instead of doing that just be real friends with girls if you like them. let the friendship / affection grow naturally, dont push things. fuck buddies and GFs come and go but friends can last a lifetime. This is also how girls tend to think as well so you need to get on that wavelength.

In summary, stop seeing sex as the end point and friendship as just a means unto that end. Attached to that young vagina is a thinking breathing entity. Build a real relationship with that entity and everything else will fall into place.

[Leonard]

All other women are fair game!G

Oh and ignore anyone like this fool who uses hunting analogies or that blowhard from the other thread who was talking about 'pussy power' and 'game strategy' or whatever.

I can guarantee both of these pretenders knows ZERO about women. It is NOT a contest or a hunt. To the contrary, its all about building bridges and establishing common ground

[rage_face]

The majority of my friends are women. sure I also have good friends who are male but I tend to enjoy their company of women a lot more

I often hang out with female friends on a one on one basis, go to dinner together or see a move, play tennis whatever. Its not a sexual thing just friends. (Btw im in a relationship and my GF has no issue with this bc she trusts me)

regarding the friend / gf thing you mentioned before. It seems like you pretend to be friends with a girl only as a means of fucking her or conning her into a relationship. And then when that strategy fails you tell them you dont want to be friends anyway which is a really shitty attitude and totally unfair to the girl

instead of doing that just be real friends with girls if you like them. let the friendship / affection grow naturally, dont push things. fuck buddies and GFs come and go but friends can last a lifetime. This is also how girls tend to think as well so you need to get on that wavelength.

In summary, stop seeing sex as the end point and friendship as just a means unto that end. Attached to that young vagina is a thinking breathing entity. Build a real relationship with that entity and everything else will fall into place.

Hey Leonard,

I see you take a different view and I would be interested in your thoughts:

1. How many female friends do you hang out with on a one on one basis?
2. How often do you hang out with them?
3. Are these friends single or taken?
4. If they offered sex, would you take it?

Also, not really sure what you mean by I pretend to be friends with a girl to get to bed her. I think all guys are friendly and nice to girls they want to bed. No guy really walks up to a girl and says "want sex?" and if yes, proceeds, if no, walks away. You obviously have to be friendly and nice to them first. Then you ask them out. Which is what I did.

Girls do a similar thing to guys. When the guy wants something more, and the girl doesn't, she gets upset that he doesn't want to be just friends. If he wants x and she wants y, then they should go their separate ways. Why must he give in to her and give her y when he wants x? That is unfair to the guy.

How can a friendship develop into affection/relationship? That must mean at least one of them had a sexual intention in the first place...which means one of them was never truly a "friend". If you wait a year for this friend, and then they meet someone else and get married, then you've just wasted a year of your time.

[Kirito]

I'm in a relationship and i'm trying to be close friends with a ML i see. Nothing sexual. God help me.:cry:

[Oneonone]

Oh and ignore anyone like this fool who uses hunting analogies or that blowhard from the other thread who was talking about 'pussy power' and 'game strategy' or whatever.

I can guarantee both of these pretenders knows ZERO about women. It is NOT a contest or a hunt. To the contrary, its all about building bridges and establishing common ground

There is no doubt who is the fool here you take my comment out of text and suggest I am the fool go back and read what I have said and all will be revealed you are the fool>

[random_p]

Girls do a similar thing to guys. When the guy wants something more, and the girl doesn't, she gets upset that he doesn't want to be just friends. If he wants x and she wants y, then they should go their separate ways. Why must he give in to her and give her y when he wants x? That is unfair to the guy.



You know, if you ask enough pairs of friends, whatever their gender, you'll find it is quite common for them to not share the exact same wants out of the relationship. The other thing to think about is, a lot of friendships are about compromise, e.g. I have friends of both genders whom I love to party with, but every time we do so I get trashed and the next day is a write-off, so I have to balance between having fun with them, and not having my Saturdays wasted due to my being hungover.

So, in your terms, though I want X (a fun time) and Y (not get too drunk) from my friends, I get X (a fun time) and Z (get too drunk); just because I don't get Y (not get too drunk) from them doesn't mean they are not worth being friends with.

I hope that makes sense..

[RoyalFlush]

I think rage refers to x = sex, y = just friends to hang out

I tend to agree with rage actually. The only platonic female friends that I have are those that we are somehow dependent and useful to each other (for example, work colleagues and business contacts- we help each other earn money) or we are doing a common thing together until it reaches a closure or come to the end of an episode (for example solving a crisis, or cell-group meetings). Other than that, I seriously struggle to think what platonic girlfriends who offers no sex good for really??

I think the 2 main points for me are:
1) Time and money
2) Individual character
The article has already touched on the first point, which I agree completely. But second point is a variable factor that may be different from guy to guy and will affect the whole viewpoint on this issue.
We can all agree that Time and Money are our finite and valuable resources. But the way people choose to spend it may largely differ from one person to another. I for one am not a social worker type who can devote my time and energy for a payless work in exchange for internal happiness that I cannot appreciate. But to the person doing this work may feel some kind of happiness within himself, that spur him to keep doing it. Otherwise whats the motivation to keep doing it? So maybe there are guys who are happy to spend their time and money with a girl with no sex in exchange, I dunno, just theorizing.
But I am like rage. I think making platonic friends with girls (with no common purpose) is useless if there is no sex involved. As random previously pointed out, friendship is sometimes about making compromises. I actually avoid hanging out with girls for shopping for too long especially if there is no sex involved. Because I am putting a lot of upfront investment without seeing any future returns. But if we are already having sex, I dont mind hanging out doing all those stuff with her.

I consider myself someone who knows what I want. Therefore I do things with an objective in mind. So combining these two, means I am willing to invest some resources into a girl, but I do expect the sort of return that I want. Otherwise, I just dont bother with the friendship thing.

[rage_face]

You know, if you ask enough pairs of friends, whatever their gender, you'll find it is quite common for them to not share the exact same wants out of the relationship. The other thing to think about is, a lot of friendships are about compromise, e.g. I have friends of both genders whom I love to party with, but every time we do so I get trashed and the next day is a write-off, so I have to balance between having fun with them, and not having my Saturdays wasted due to my being hungover.

So, in your terms, though I want X (a fun time) and Y (not get too drunk) from my friends, I get X (a fun time) and Z (get too drunk); just because I don't get Y (not get too drunk) from them doesn't mean they are not worth being friends with.

I hope that makes sense..

RoyalFlush gets my point. When I say x and y, I'm not talking about McDonald's vs KFC. I'm talking about friendship vs sex. If guy wants sex and girl wants friendship without sex, then that relationship is going to be very uncomfortable for a very long time.

[rage_face]

I consider myself someone who knows what I want. Therefore I do things with an objective in mind. So combining these two, means I am willing to invest some resources into a girl, but I do expect the sort of return that I want. Otherwise, I just dont bother with the friendship thing.

This is the other thing. What is wrong with entering into a relationship knowing what you can put into it and what you can get out of it? If I am looking for x, and a girl comes along offering me z, why should I waste my finite time and resources with her?

This is especially the case when the girl gets what she wants from you. If you want x and she gives z, and she wants t and you give t, then you've lost out there buddy.

[Leonard]

Hi Rageface, you sound like an intense sorta guy.

If you hang around a woman with the sole intent of putting your dick in her hole 99% of the time its gonna create a really uncomfortable vibe and you'll end up pushing her away (like in the story you told us before).

I said it before and I'll say it again kid, stop treating sex as the end-goal. Start thinking about making friends with girls. I'm not talking about being 'nice' or 'friendly' with them, I'm talking about establishing real emotional connections with members of the opposite sex. Forget about getting your little pecker wet for a while and just focus on that.

Believe me son once you're 'in their world' things will be completely different, sex / relationships will be there for the taking and your days of frustration and loneliness will be a distant memory. Nothing surer


RoyalFlush gets my point. When I say x and y, I'm not talking about McDonald's vs KFC. I'm talking about friendship vs sex. If guy wants sex and girl wants friendship without sex, then that relationship is going to be very uncomfortable for a very long time.

[rage_face]

Hi Rageface, you sound like an intense sorta guy.

If you hang around a woman with the sole intent of putting your dick in her hole 99% of the time its gonna create a really uncomfortable vibe and you'll end up pushing her away (like in the story you told us before).

I said it before and I'll say it again kid, stop treating sex as the end-goal. Start thinking about making friends with girls. I'm not talking about being 'nice' or 'friendly' with them, I'm talking about establishing real emotional connections with members of the opposite sex. Forget about getting your little pecker wet for a while and just focus on that.

Believe me son once you're 'in their world' things will be completely different, sex / relationships will be there for the taking and your days of frustration and loneliness will be a distant memory. Nothing surer

Hey Leonard,

You seem to mis-interpret my posts a little. With the girl I posted about, it was her who showed interest first, and so I went along. I never met her with the intention of sex, if you could have watched how we interacted on the first few occasions, you would see that she was the one doing most of the flirting.

Aside from that, you seem intent on advising us to give in to what girls want. And ironically, you tell us to do so because "once you're 'in their world' things will be completely different, sex / relationships will be there for the taking"...so you are telling us to do all this for sex, which is what you told us not to do in the first place.