The economics of sex these days

[CunningLinguist]

Here is an interesting article in the Economist of all places, and no I don't read it regularly:

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21611074-how-new-technology-shaking-up-oldest-business-more-bang-your-buck?fsrc=nlw|hig|8-08-2014|5356c7d4899249e1ccbba295|AP


One reply points out that prostitution is easier than many other jobs to combine with motherhood: it pays well enough to cover child-care costs, and can be fitted around school holidays, plays and sports days, and children’s illnesses.

[AHLUNGOR]

Hats off to all the MILFs who served during school hours !!

[Kirito]

They dont call it the worlds oldest profession for nothing!

[Wayne]

we have discussed most of what is in this Economist article previously - how much cheaper and easier it is to buy sex now than 30 years ago - perhaps the reporter has been reading this forum!

But from a bit of a contrarian perspective, the increasing suitability of prostituting oneself to raise children, is not surprising. It reflects the re-establishment of strong gender roles in society and the growing conservatism of politics generally. Look at the throwback to pre-Enlightenment we have as our Prime Minister! If ever there was an example of ignorant stupidity it is this bloke. Women are either mothers or whores, is the basis of his thinking. And he represents a depressingly common viewpoint.

[Leonard]

The increasing suitability of prostituting oneself to raise children, is not surprising. It reflects the re-establishment of strong gender roles in society and the growing conservatism of politics generally.

How do you figure that?? The 'increased suitability of prostituting oneself to raise children' is due to the legalisation of prostitution - a result of progressive social policy!!!!

You sound like an embittered old lefty with an axe to grind! I'm willing to bet money you're either a low level government clerk or a teacher (you don't sound sensible or intelligent enough to be a bureacrat or an academic!)

[kln]

Hi all,

Hope I can contribute a bit here, I totally understand the views from both side, but the cost of raising a child here is expensive and unfortunately this is the easiest and quickest way to make money. (I personally do not condone it, but hey we all have to make the tough decision in life isn't it)

Will I pay for those ladies? Probably not, I cannot imagine banging someone's mom and thinking that she's doing it to raise her child. (That's just me)

[hikhik]

There has also been a change in women's attitude to sex. Women, especially the younger ones, are more promiscuous these days and have a far more casual attitude to sex than ever before. They have sex with more partners, and more frequently, and they have sex for enjoyment. So it's not too far of a leap to "might as well get paid for it".

I have been visiting a 19 year old private WL for the last few months. She is new to being a WL and incredibly hot. I was lucky to notice her advert as she no longer advertises. She is very open about her need to pay bills and will call me up frequently to ask if I wanna see her. Makes me feel like I'm her ATM.

[Wayne]

How do you figure that?? The 'increased suitability of prostituting oneself to raise children' is due to the legalisation of prostitution - a result of progressive social policy!!!!

Um, no that's not what the article says. Nor is it what I said in response. If you want to discuss the article, fine. But please don't verbal me. You instantly lose all credibility.



You sound like an embittered old lefty with an axe to grind!

Gratuitous insults! Now I wonder why a newbie would be hurling abuse instead of engaging in discussion? I guess it is typical of the liberal party - bully boy tactics, misrepresentations, outright lies...



I'm willing to bet money you're either a low level government clerk or a teacher (you don't sound sensible or intelligent enough to be a bureacrat or an academic!)

Um, what's wrong with low level government clerks or teachers? I'd say those motivated through a desire for public service, or to educate the young and the ignorant, are far more valuable to society that internet trolls. Are you a troll?

[Wayne]

Hi all,

Hope I can contribute a bit here, I totally understand the views from both side, but the cost of raising a child here is expensive and unfortunately this is the easiest and quickest way to make money. (I personally do not condone it, but hey we all have to make the tough decision in life isn't it)

Will I pay for those ladies? Probably not, I cannot imagine banging someone's mom and thinking that she's doing it to raise her child. (That's just me)

But it's funny, isn't it, that our sexual urges are all about procreation. So why is there this sense of not wanting to bang a mother who is only trying to support her child? Seems like the whole equation has skewered.

[Wayne]

There has also been a change in women's attitude to sex. Women, especially the younger ones, are more promiscuous these days and have a far more casual attitude to sex than ever before. They have sex with more partners, and more frequently, and they have sex for enjoyment. So it's not too far of a leap to "might as well get paid for it".

I have been visiting a 19 year old private WL for the last few months. She is new to being a WL and incredibly hot. I was lucky to notice her advert as she no longer advertises. She is very open about her need to pay bills and will call me up frequently to ask if I wanna see her. Makes me feel like I'm her ATM.

Sounds like you are on to a good thing; unless you are paying too much per session. Having a hot young fuck buddy is the goal of many...

[Leonard]

if a lady has a child and works in a brothel she is a terrible mother and a terrible person!

can you imagine how a kid would be effected finding out his mother is a prostitute? jeeez he would be emotionally traumatised for life!

and dont give me that shit about necessity. Lots of single mothers in australia make do without needing to sell their pussy. Its a cop out and an incredibly irresponsible decision

[CunningLinguist]

can you imagine how a kid would be effected finding out his mother is a prostitute? jeeez he would be emotionally traumatised for life!


I've got news for you ...

[AHLUNGOR]

if a lady has a child and works in a brothel she is a terrible mother and a terrible person!

can you imagine how a kid would be effected finding out his mother is a prostitute? jeeez he would be emotionally traumatised for life!

and dont give me that shit about necessity. Lots of single mothers in australia make do without needing to sell their pussy. Its a cop out and an incredibly irresponsible decision

You are making it sounds like all WLs are bad person and even bad mother ! I don't know how you can judge that !

To start with, a prostitute is a legit job as far as I am concerned , it's not stealing and not dealing drugs, it's a service to the community as most men are born horny and has needs !!

BTW, last time I check, prostitution is actually legal in this country !

Whether a woman is a good mother of not should not be judged by her job but the way she raise her child with love and care.

I happen to know a few ladies in the industry and they are all excellent mothers, and they always do their best for their children !

Just my two cents

Cheers

[uglyphil]

Gratuitous insults! Now I wonder why a newbie would be hurling abuse instead of engaging in discussion?

Clearly Leonard is not a newbie ;)

That has been obvious from their first post.

[uglyphil]

You are making it sounds like all WLs are bad person and even bad mother ! I don't know how you can judge that !

To start with, a prostitute is a legit job as far as I am concerned , it's not stealing and not dealing drugs, it's a service to the community as most men are born horny and has needs !!

BTW, last time I check, prostitution is actually legal in this country !

Whether a woman is a good mother of not should not be judged by her job but the way she raise her child with love and care.

I happen to know a few ladies in the industry and they are all excellent mothers, and they always do their best for their children !

Just my two cents

Cheers

+1

Well said AH

:)

[CunningLinguist]

You are making it sounds like all WLs are bad person and even bad mother ! I don't know how you can judge that !

To start with, a prostitute is a legit job as far as I am concerned , it's not stealing and not dealing drugs, it's a service to the community as most men are born horny and has needs !!

BTW, last time I check, prostitution is actually legal in this country !

Whether a woman is a good mother of not should not be judged by her job but the way she raise her child with love and care.

I happen to know a few ladies in the industry and they are all excellent mothers, and they always do their best for their children !

Just my two cents

Cheers

Best to ignore this troll (Leonard, son of a XXXXX) mate!

[Leonard]

Yeh prostituion is legal and yes of course prostitutes without kids aren't doing anything wrong - morally or legally

But shit changes when a lady has a child, it just ain't right she work in a brothel when she got a kid at home.

How would you feel if you found out YOUR mother worked as a prostitute? serious question bro, think about it for a sec.

No kid needs to find out their old lady suck strange cocks for cash. Kids deserve better than that. Any lady that does it is selfish and irresponsible

and by the way im pretty sure 99% of the australian population would agree with me and if you dont its only because youre so emersed in the sex industry sub-culture that youve lost all perspective lol

[CunningLinguist]

I think that fool Leonard is on the wrong forum, maybe he got confused and couldn't read ...
I think most normal people learn in primary school that people have different views about things and if someone disagrees with you they are not automatically wrong and don't deserved to be attacked, maybe he dropped out in primary school, anyway who cares, he is a troll.

[slangman69]

Sometimes it really blows my mind how cheap it is to have sex with really attractive ladies. Like I know most places you get what you pay for and a blah blah but the fact that you can go to the mid-priced places like Liaisons, Golden Apple, Stiletto or La Petite Aroma and often find some legitimate young beauties is sort of really ridiculous.

When I would see sex work portrayed in movies when I was younger I always assumed it would cost hundreds of dollars to fuck some ugly-to-average looking girl and thousands for stunner, but the reality of how cheap it really is still does my head in.

Do you remember playing that "How would you have to be paid to do XXX?" game? Someone would say "How much would you need to be paid to have sex with (unattractive persons name here)?" and the person being asked would say "OH MY GOD, I WOULD NEED AT LEAST TWENTY GRAND!" and y'know, the reality is a lot of really pretty girls will do it for A LOT less.

[AHLUNGOR]

Yeh
prostituion is legal and yes of course prostitutes without kids aren't doing anything wrong - morally or legally

But shit changes when a lady has a child, it just ain't right she work in a brothel when she got a kid at home.

How would you feel if you found out YOUR mother worked as a prostitute? serious question bro, think about it for a sec.

No kid needs to find out their old lady suck strange cocks for cash. Kids deserve better than that. Any lady that does it is selfish and irresponsible

and by the way im pretty sure 99% of the australian population would agree with me and if you dont its only because youre so emersed in the sex industry sub-culture that youve lost all perspective lol

Sorry to hear about your story.

Hopefully one day you will find peace in your heart and forgive your old lady !

[CunningLinguist]

Sorry to hear about your story.

Hopefully one day you will find peace in your heart and forgive your old lady !

This is a classic forum moment :)

[Redbull]

Sorry to hear about your story.

Hopefully one day you will find peace in your heart and forgive your old lady !

I will call fire department to help with the cold water for the burn

[Wayne]

Sorry to hear about your story.

Hopefully one day you will find peace in your heart and forgive your old lady !

What a brilliant line...almost like a tribute to the great comic genius we lost this week. Humour always exposes idiocy for what it is.

[Wayne]

just went back to re-read the Economist article and found this graphic - 11072 - saying that it costs half as much for an hour with a hooker in Tokyo than Sydney. Methinks there is something faulty with their research.

[wilisno]

just went back to re-read the Economist article and found this graphic - 11072 - saying that it costs half as much for an hour with a hooker in Tokyo than Sydney. Methinks there is something faulty with their research.
That's probably for the locals who know where to go ...

[AHLUNGOR]

That's probably for the locals who know where to go ...

Local knowledge in Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Macau and China will be GOLD !

[Wayne]

That's probably for the locals who know where to go ...

surprisingly, I have since read elsewhere that this is not the case - that the cheap escorts, which the Economist's study used, are for those who are not in the know, while the expensive geisha-type and soapy Japanese escorts are exclusively for locals. These are so exclusive that even the Economist was not able to gather enough meaningful data for their study.

[wilisno]

surprisingly, I have since read elsewhere that this is not the case - that the cheap escorts, which the Economist's study used, are for those who are not in the know, while the expensive geisha-type and soapy Japanese escorts are exclusively for locals. These are so exclusive that even the Economist was not able to gather enough meaningful data for their study.
No matter what study it is, I believe the locals of any country would know their own country or town better than others, and hence know their way around in finding a bargain !

[Licker]

just went back to re-read the Economist article and found this graphic - 11072 - saying that it costs half as much for an hour with a hooker in Tokyo than Sydney. Methinks there is something faulty with their research.

Did you notice the mark next to Tokyo and reference "Small sample"?
This most likely is there because the data sample is too small to calculate a meaningful average, and they know it.

As for the market in Tokyo: Most prostitutes in Tokyo are from China, Philippines, Thailand...
Japanese girls are more expensive, and typically not so easy to find by non-Japanese clients.

[AHLUNGOR]

No matter what study it is, I believe the locals

of any country would know their own country or town better than others, and hence know their way around in finding a bargain !


I am sure there are plenty of Japanese punting forums like this all over the .com.jp domains !!

It would be fantastic experiences for those who understand the language !

[CunningLinguist]

These are so exclusive that even the Economist was not able to gather enough meaningful data for their study.

Are you implying the Economist has a good reputation ...

[CunningLinguist]

As for the market in Tokyo: Most prostitutes in Tokyo are from China, Philippines, Thailand...
Japanese girls are more expensive, and typically not so easy to find by non-Japanese clients.

Unless they are very old or very ugly or both ...

[Wayne]

Are you implying the Economist has a good reputation ...

Well, they like to put forward the notion that it is THE journal of record. And they charge enough - their EIU is the most expensive research group. But as Licker points out, that graphic I used is meaningless because they qualify that their Japanese data was insufficient to be statistically meaningful. And as others say, locals always know their market better than any outside researcher. The idea that the average one hour punt in Sydney costs $360 is also ridiculous.

[Licker]

The idea that the average one hour punt in Sydney costs $360 is also ridiculous.

Well, the whole idea of calculating an average price of a punt in Sydney or globally (even when talking about escorts, not including brothels) based on a single site which is mainly American adds, gives totally wrong results. The majority of Sydney escorts are probably not advertising on that site.
And the Economist doesn't even identify the site.

Secondly, calculating an average price of a punt based on asking prices without considering the number of transactions is also statistically wrong.
An escort with a $300 asking price may have 5 customers a day, while an escort with an asking price of $700 may only have 5 customers a week.
What then is the average price for punt? Surely it is NOT (300+700)/2 = 500.

And when you consider for example cracker adds for 'a' girl, where in reality it is an add by an 'agency' and 10 girls may be dispatched to customers based on that single add, you get to, say 200 punts at $250 a week versus 5 punts at $700, in which case the average price for punt is $260.

Without further information on how they have calculated the prices (apart from the mention that the latest price is used) their method seems like calculating the average price for a car based on:
Maserati costs $400,000
Toyota costs $20,000
Thus average price of a car is $210,000

All I can say to the Economist: I am not impressed!

[CunningLinguist]

Well, the whole idea of calculating an average price of a punt in Sydney or globally (even when talking about escorts, not including brothels) based on a single site which is mainly American adds, gives totally wrong results. The majority of Sydney escorts are probably not advertising on that site.
And the Economist doesn't even identify the site.

Secondly, calculating an average price of a punt based on asking prices without considering the number of transactions is also statistically wrong.
An escort with a $300 asking price may have 5 customers a day, while an escort with an asking price of $700 may only have 5 customers a week.
What then is the average price for punt? Surely it is NOT (300+700)/2 = 500.

And when you consider for example cracker adds for 'a' girl, where in reality it is an add by an 'agency' and 10 girls may be dispatched to customers based on that single add, you get to, say 200 punts at $250 a week versus 5 punts at $700, in which case the average price for punt is $260.

Without further information on how they have calculated the prices (apart from the mention that the latest price is used) their method seems like calculating the average price for a car based on:
Maserati costs $400,000
Toyota costs $20,000
Thus average price of a car is $210,000

All I can say to the Economist: I am not impressed!

Now we are getting somewhere!
So do you reckon this article is indicative of the average quality of Economist articles ...

[wilisno]

Well, the whole idea of calculating an average price of a punt in Sydney or globally (even when talking about escorts, not including brothels) based on a single site which is mainly American adds, gives totally wrong results. The majority of Sydney escorts are probably not advertising on that site.
And the Economist doesn't even identify the site.

Secondly, calculating an average price of a punt based on asking prices without considering the number of transactions is also statistically wrong.
An escort with a $300 asking price may have 5 customers a day, while an escort with an asking price of $700 may only have 5 customers a week.
What then is the average price for punt? Surely it is NOT (300+700)/2 = 500.

And when you consider for example cracker adds for 'a' girl, where in reality it is an add by an 'agency' and 10 girls may be dispatched to customers based on that single add, you get to, say 200 punts at $250 a week versus 5 punts at $700, in which case the average price for punt is $260.

Without further information on how they have calculated the prices (apart from the mention that the latest price is used) their method seems like calculating the average price for a car based on:
Maserati costs $400,000
Toyota costs $20,000
Thus average price of a car is $210,000

All I can say to the Economist: I am not impressed!
Excellent analysis ! ;) ;) ;)

[Wayne]

Excellent analysis ! ;) ;) ;)

Yes, I agree. Licker, you could teach our treasurer a thing or two about basic proportionality!

[Licker]

Now we are getting somewhere!
So do you reckon this article is indicative of the average quality of Economist articles ...

It could be. Though my recent sample of reading their articles is too small to make any determination.
I last read the Economist more when it was still subscribed to the office about 3 years ago.

The related article kind of balances the poor research work on the other.
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21611063-internet-making-buying-and-selling-sex-easier-and-safer-governments-should-stop

At least I can fully concur with the writers conclusions in that one:

Prostitution is moving online whether governments like it or not. If they try to get in the way of the shift they will do harm. Indeed, the unrealistic goal of ending the sex trade distracts the authorities from the genuine horrors of modern-day slavery (which many activists conflate with illegal immigration for the aim of selling sex) and child prostitution (better described as money changing hands to facilitate the rape of a child). Governments should focus on deterring and punishing such crimes—and leave consenting adults who wish to buy and sell sex to do so safely and privately online.

And they have an actual reference for that article (even though only one).

* Cunningham, S and Shah, M. “Decriminalizing Indoor Prostitution: Implications for Sexual Violence and Public Health” (working paper, July 17th 2014).
dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2467633

The abstract of that study is interesting to say the least

Abstract:
Most governments in the world including the United States prohibit prostitution. Given these types of laws rarely change and are fairly uniform across regions, our knowledge about the impact of decriminalizing sex work is largely conjectural. We exploit the fact that a Rhode Island District Court judge unexpectedly decriminalized indoor prostitution in 2003 to provide the first causal estimates of the impact of decriminalization on the composition of the sex market, rape offenses, and sexually transmitted infection outcomes. Not surprisingly, we find that decriminalization increased the size of the indoor market. However, we also find that decriminalization caused both forcible rape offenses and gonorrhea incidence to decline for the overall population. Our synthetic control model finds 824 fewer reported rape offenses (31 percent decrease) and 1,035 fewer cases of female gonorrhea (39 percent decrease) from 2004 to 2009.

[Wayne]

The abstract of that study is interesting to say the least

yeah, that the first time I've seen a US study draw toward that conclusion. European studies have regularly found that decriminalising prostitution leads to greater overall sexual awareness, health and a reduction in violence against women. Common sense really. If you drive something underground then it becomes next to impossible to regulate.

On the Economist's credibility CL; I think it has been the best but is now suffering, as all traditional publications are, by competition from online startups. Something like The Conversation provides a similar news coverage and quality analysis - but at a fraction of the cost. And, because The Conversation is not reliant on inhouse research it provides a much broader and less rigid coverage than the Economist. And there are 100s of other such online sources now that similarly challenge The Economist's previous authority. Like virtually every old style media, the Economist has responded by trying to shore up a specific market; so it now appears almost doctrinaire.

[CunningLinguist]

You can always tell when subscriptions are falling, articles about prostitution start to appear ... :)

[Max Impact]

The Economics of Sex according to Max.

She is gorgeous, lasered pussy, girls and guys stare at her. Max pays for everything- she doesn't even have a job. Hihihihihijjjjjj

[CunningLinguist]

Are you keeping someone to yourself again ...

[Max Impact]

Yes of course. She is "Brand".

I'm happy to share the cost with you.

[CunningLinguist]

Brand "Impact" ?
If you pay for pussy lasering do you own the pussy now :)

[Max Impact]

The investment in lasering is well worth it. Little more than one punt for 8 sessions.
No more rash on my face.

[hikhik]

Back to economics, if I may - so who is getting rich from prostitution?

[Max Impact]

I thought we were at the coal face of economics?

[Max Impact]

Back to economics, if I may - so who is getting rich from prostitution?

Prostitutes?

[AHLUNGOR]

Back to economics, if I may - so who is getting rich from prostitution?

Yamada, Duncan, Wilson , Roger ...........etc etc

[hikhik]

Prostitutes?

On the floor laughing hahahaha

[hikhik]

Yamada, Duncan, Wilson , Roger ...........etc etc

Of course.