Buying Visa

[altgourami]

Interesting that I've met a few Chinese WLs recently who've admitted to being married for money to get a visa. One girl admitted paying $65k plus bedroom benefits.

I know it happens but I've never had so blatant an admission from WLs before.

She's shit bored of the guy and counting down the months until she qualifies for PR. Says they guy watches her like a hawk which is why she's so careful seeing guys outside of the shop but "once I have my PR I leave him and live my life again."

How many guys here have been paid for a visa and, if so, how much and what do you let your girl do and not do?

[project_manager006]

Bro get me in on the action!

[dom.peter80]

she sounds like an Aries

[playerz]

Plenty around mate. I was offered $70k 3 months ago. 15 years younger than me and But my fear is that the biatch don't leave after 2 years... :-)

3 years ago I was offered cash+rent paid city apartment+full service by a WL. I said NO and we're still friends today coz she found a classmate to sponsor her.

Be nice and friendly and do multiple visits with the same girl and some will ask you. But they need to feel comfortable with you. Like add you as facebook friend even before I was asked to sponsor.

[project_manager006]

Plenty around mate. I was offered $70k 3 months ago. 15 years younger than me and But my fear is that the biatch don't leave after 2 years... :-)

3 years ago I was offered cash+rent paid city apartment+full service by a WL. I said NO and we're still friends today coz she found a classmate to sponsor her.

Be nice and friendly and do multiple visits with the same girl and some will ask you. But they need to feel comfortable with you. Like add you as facebook friend even before I was asked to sponsor.

Ok sounds like a plan...but is this Chinese WL only or would Korean WL offer as well?

[playerz]

My experience on more than those 2 examples I've given are random in my case but more straight forward if they're from same country of origin as you. Mine have been Chinese, Malaysian, Thai, Indonesian, Vietnamese & HK. One Japanese offered to be live in girlfriend - I pay rent she service me, but I said NO coz her boobs were fake D cups. :-)

[wilisno]

Ok sounds like a plan...but is this Chinese WL only or would Korean WL offer as well?

Haha, maybe you should specify the candidate's requirements :

Nationality, age, measurments etc :miao:

[Pinkbits]

If you get caught, the gigs up! I would think the penalties would out weigh the money you may make from it. I guess that is what they call a mail order bride.

[guailo]

Lads, it is a Commonwealth offence and possible jail time. You reckon the 65K is worth it? If she does not live up to her part of the deal (e.g. don't pay you) what are you going to do? You cancel your sponsorship and she tells all about the scam. You are screwed.
Unless she is something special, I cannot be bothered having her as a "live-in wife" i.e. she has to be fan-fucking-tastic.

[Sextus]

Woh! I had no idea it was an actual offence. I thought it was just a case of "Hey buddy - we don't believe you, so she's outa here." Jeez, I was curious about this and I'm a helpful kind of guy, but I'm no crim.

By the way Blackbird, never discount or belittle the intense power of "sexual gratification" (as you seem to be above.)That particular obsession has led to many a man's downfall.

[8inches]

I get pretty angry when I hear about australian nationals participating in these sort of scams for personal profit or sexual gratification - shows that they hold aussie citizenship in very low regard.

You are right - it is a serious crime and a jailable offense. Perhaps the culprits should have their own citizenship stripped away and be deported to nauru

Why be angry?
These things happen all the time.
People that suffer the most are genuine visa applications.

[baby_boo]

Why be angry?
These things happen all the time.
People that suffer the most are genuine visa applications.

yea, it's not like this is the 1st time u hear about that right? this has happened since ages

[Travelmate]

Why be angry?
These things happen all the time.
People that suffer the most are genuine visa applications.

totally support!

And I also heard people working inside immigration is working together with some special consulting agent to help some customers to fast track their application.

[uber]

Why be angry?
These things happen all the time.
People that suffer the most are genuine visa applications.

BLACKBIRD is right to be angry. Just because it happens all the time doesn't make it okay.

Citizenship is for the state to grant, not for the citizen to barter with.

[aussiegaigin]

Don't forget you have to live with the girl for at least two years before she gets PR. Then she can come in and sue for divorce and get half your assets, including themoney she has paid you.

I got a few propositions from Japanese girls I worked with back in the days when these things were much simpler, but the money on offer was much less.

One of my frends was a pensioner who went into "cohabitation" to get his J girlfriend PR. When he lodged the application, Centrelink got wind of it, decided he was being "supported" by the girl and cut his pension in half.

[Sextus]

Blackbird is often angry / severe / lecturing.

Blackbird, what does make you laugh? Maybe tell us in the biography you promised. Where is that? :D

[baby_boo]

Don't forget you have to live with the girl for at least two years before she gets PR. Then she can come in and sue for divorce and get half your assets, including themoney she has paid you.

In this case, get a prenup beforehand i guess

[8inches]

BLACKBIRD is right to be angry. Just because it happens all the time doesn't make it okay.

Citizenship is for the state to grant, not for the citizen to barter with.

Yes you are correct.
Even though being angry doesn't solve anything he still has the right to be angry, very angry if he wants and if you wish to top that by being extremely angry then so be it.

[Sextus]

An anger arm's race? No thanks!

[AHLUNGOR]

Blackbird is often angry / severe / lecturing.

Blackbird, what does make you laugh? Maybe tell us in the biography you promised. Where is that? :D

I am sure brother Blackbird will have a smile on his face every time he has a happy ending !!

[uber]

Yes you are correct.
Even though being angry doesn't solve anything he still has the right to be angry, very angry if he wants and if you wish to top that by being extremely angry then so be it.

My word, let's not get ahead of ourselves, here.

Anger leads to hate, dark side, etc.

[Sextus]

Wow, I mildly say you seem to lack much of humour because I've never seen anything light hearted from you (yet) hoping to get something, and your response says more than anything I could say about the subject.

And in this case you also use a wild, wild exaggeration taken way out of context! Good one, Blackbird.

If there is a secret to walking on eggshells, I couldn't be bothered learning it.

[Sextus]

I am open to being convinced to an opinion that I hadn't previously held, or one contrary to one I had previously held. In all modesty, I know I do have that ability - some may even call it a virtue. The reason I know I have it is that it stands out, by contrast, in a world of people who can't or won't alter their thinking on subjects.

I'd say that tends to indicate a strength of character rather than the opposite. It is probaby rare because people are uber protective of their views, as the sum of them is what maintains their sense of themselves. I feel, however, that my ego is not that fragile as to require such a prop. (These are general remarks only, not directed at you - I am learning to add.)

But I can't remember what the words are I didn't stand by - was it the remarks about generalisations, where I quoted Wilisno? (sorry Wilisno, you are being mentioned while you are out of the room again.) I realised I had spoken a little hastily on that matter in my rush to make my main point on a different subject. I remembered afterwards that a certain generalisation I made about men is, in fact, TRUE.

Are they the words I didn't stand by? If so, it a pretty trivial thing to get so worked up about that you then "can't stand me." You are setting the bar too low I feel, and you'll sweep up most of humanity into that category at that rate.

It might be some other matter, but if it is even less important than the above it is no wonder I can't remember it.

But look, I confess I was a bit harsh in making a little bit of fun about a certain humour deficit you may have exhibited since joining the forum. I am genuinely interested in what you do find funny, as humour rocks my world. It is exceptionally liberating I feel. That was the second part of my query, with a smiley face attached.

I hope I am not "going back on my words" again here?

Blackbird, you are tying me up in mental knots, and I need a good laugh to clear the debris out. But (sigh) on this occasion, not one at your expense.

[Licker]

uber protective

Sprechen Sie Deutch, mein Freund?
In that case, would you not say “über”?
Ah, Mensch! :fire:


Blackbird, you are tying me up in mental knots, and I need a good laugh to clear the debris out! But (sigh) on this occasion, not one at your expense.

“Does laughter prolong life?”

Here is link where some skeptics (in general terms I would regard myself as one) are pondering on the matter and missing the whole point.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/11054/does-laughter-prolong-life

The only comment I like, is the last: “Maybe not, but one might enjoy it more while laughing”

And what does all of this have to do with people "Buying a visa"?
Not a fucking thing!
But you need to try and enjoy life anyway, because otherwise it's meaningless!

[Sextus]

Thanks Licker for those links. They were a little dry and analytical, seeing humour in physiogical or psychological terms rather than in the creative world in which it truly belongs. Humour is really about making connections, many of them unexpected, and that is the foundation of all creativity.

[Sextus]

Back to the marriage topic. I'm a romantic, and I would genuinely try to make a permanent fist of it if the lady was nice enough. And I'm open minded, big time. Another liberating force.

I could keep my own place as my workplace - which it is already - and commute here from our matrimonial love nest to work. How civilised. We wouldn't be in each others hair too much - maybe two or three nights a week. I'd do it on a permanent basis, no deception intended or practiced. She might still farewell me when she qualifies, but it wouldn't be a mutual decision. Meanwhile I could learn a valuable language from her in this, the Asian century.

[jellyshots]

It really hurts legitimate cases when people scam citizenship. What is interesting is how the media focuses on the Asian or middle eastern countries but the reality is, one of the highest cases of people overstaying their visas happens to be people from the UK.

[guailo]

I can understand bro Blackbird's anger. We all know immigration scams have been around for a long time. For bros of a certain vintage, remember the movie "Green Card" with that Gerard Depardieu guy?
Kinda hard to show a relationship is not genuine if the couple actually goes through the process, genuinely living as a couple (except for the understanding that the relationship will end somewhere later down the track). In every aspect, they present as a genuine couple.
Nonetheless, it is an offence and should you be caught, be prepared for the possibility of spending time inside and being passed around as some ugly dude's bitch and have your butthole drilled (unfortunately not by a WL).

[Sextus]

By trying to "make a fist of it" I didn't mean fisting!

Its not criminal if at least one person is trying to make a genuine go of it is it?

[wilisno]

By trying to "make a fist of it" I didn't mean fisting!

Its not criminal if at least one person is trying to make a genuine go of it is it?
It is criminal if that one person is getting paid for it.

[guailo]

It is criminal if the person goes into the process knowing it is not true. This rules out those poor innocent buggers conned into sponsoring thinking they are the luckiest pricks on earth.

[Travelmate]

Plenty around mate. I was offered $70k 3 months ago. 15 years younger than me and But my fear is that the biatch don't leave after 2 years... :-)

3 years ago I was offered cash+rent paid city apartment+full service by a WL. I said NO and we're still friends today coz she found a classmate to sponsor her.

Be nice and friendly and do multiple visits with the same girl and some will ask you. But they need to feel comfortable with you. Like add you as facebook friend even before I was asked to sponsor.

the standard price is about $60k to $80k...
$70k about right

[8inches]

$35K per year to live a lie.
all that hassle for 670bux per week.
Get a job or find other ways to make a living that doesn't have the risk of giving you a criminal record.

[Travelmate]

$35K per year to live a lie.
all that hassle for 670bux per week.
Get a job or find other ways to make a living that doesn't have the risk of giving you a criminal record.

A lot of this guys are working on cash job (kitchen hands/hair dressing) and try to get another $670 weekly on top.
Just to share

[Sextus]

I like the thought it could work out long term.

As George Costanza says:

"It's not a lie - if you believe it."

Anyway, you guys should be grateful to me. It is only contrary c**ts like me that keeps these freakin' threads alive.

[8inches]

i like the thought it could work out long term.

As george constanza says:

"it's not a lie - if you believe it."

it's not a crime until you get caught ;)

[Sextus]

He he he - I'll pay that. :shout:

[kickass]

It is criminal if that one person is getting paid for it.

I agree wilisno.

Guys ... seriously ... we have a great country here. Any decent girl can get PR by going to college and working at night. The paid relationship scam ties up your life for years, makes you known to the authorities, and will inevitably come back some years down the track and bite you in the bum !!!

[gimpy]

it's all easier said than done. nowadays there are interviews where they question you rigorously. i knew a guy who said that they got the two of them in separate rooms and asked him what colour underwear she was wearing last night. so there'd be plenty of work to do. years ago it was easy as pie. i know a couple of japanese girls married to gay guys. and nowadays they make you get 2 stat decs from people you know, so they are going to have to lie for you too.

it's not as easy as you say, kickass. you have to a particular career or field of study that gets he required amount of points. explains why so many international students study accounting, but hate it - they want PR. plus they keep changing the rules, so you never know what they will be by the time you graduate.

[guailo]

It is tough on international students. Having spent a fortune (check out the uni fees for international students) and not being able to get PR...

These days it is too risky for the immigration officers to ask sexually explicit questions. Testing if a couple is living together can be done with some simple questions about mundane matters.
When did you last eat out together? Where did you go. What did you order? What did she order?
What did you do over Easter? details etc
Where is the laundry basket - bathroom or laundry room?
Which side of the bed do you sleep on?
On the more explicit side - when was the last time you had sex? Time? Where? What was she wearing? Kinda hard to ask what colour was her underwear yesterday or today as you may not have been in the room when she changed but you are almost certain to see her underwear if you had sex.

If the department is suspicious, they can come calling when you least expect them. If they go through the laundry basket, will they find clothes from the male and female?

The risk is simply not worth it.

[xconcepx]

It is tough on international students. Having spent a fortune (check out the uni fees for international students) and not being able to get PR...

These days it is too risky for the immigration officers to ask sexually explicit questions. Testing if a couple is living together can be done with some simple questions about mundane matters.
When did you last eat out together? Where did you go. What did you order? What did she order?
What did you do over Easter? details etc
Where is the laundry basket - bathroom or laundry room?
Which side of the bed do you sleep on?
On the more explicit side - when was the last time you had sex? Time? Where? What was she wearing? Kinda hard to ask what colour was her underwear yesterday or today as you may not have been in the room when she changed but you are almost certain to see her underwear if you had sex.

If the department is suspicious, they can come calling when you least expect them. If they go through the laundry basket, will they find clothes from the male and female?

The risk is simply not worth it.

My sentiments exactly however that doesn't change many peoples perspective. They take money first and worry about getting caught later.

If u ever go to a Chinese restaurant on a Sunday night and see a wedding with less than 100 ppl that's usually a sign that its a fake. Not to say that u can't have an intimate wedding, but most small weddings I've seen with small parties on a Sunday are fake.

[8inches]

Size of the wedding has NOTHING to do with the marriage being real or fake!
Where the F@&k did you get that $hit from?!?
WTF!?!



My sentiments exactly however that doesn't change many peoples perspective. They take

money first and worry about getting caught later.

If u ever go to a Chinese restaurant on a Sunday night and see a wedding with less than 100 ppl that's usually a sign that its a fake. Not to say that u can't have an intimate wedding, but most small weddings I've seen with small parties on a Sunday are fake.

[wilisno]

Size of the wedding has NOTHING to do with the marriage being real or fake!
Where the F@&k did you get that $hit from?!?
WTF!?!
Believe it or not, Xconcepx is probably 80% right ! Chinese like big wedding parties !

[8inches]

Believe it or not, Xconcepx is probably 80% right ! Chinese like big wedding parties !

I speak of first hand eye witness experience, I attended an ABC groom and white girl wedding.
The couple have been together since highschool 20 guests.
I guess they fall into the %20 of wrong!

Facts are facts

[wilisno]

I speak of first hand eye witness experience, I attended an ABC groom and white girl wedding.
The couple have been together since highschool 20 guests.
I guess they fall into the %20 of wrong!

Facts are facts
That's correct, good you mention ABC, that explains it !

[8inches]

So at the end of the day the number of people that attends a wedding has NOTHING to do with the marriage being real or fake.
Enough said!

Unless of course they are being judged by where they come from and if they fall into the %80 or %20 categories or chances or being right or wrong.
Don't complicate $hit!

[wilisno]

So at the end of the day the number of people that attends a wedding has NOTHING to do with the marriage being real or fake.
Enough said!

Unless of course they are being judged by where they come from and if they fall into the %80 or %20 categories or chances or being right or wrong.
Don't complicate $hit!

Mmm ... for arguement sake, you're right, the modern generation, especially the interracial marriages might or might not have a big party. So it's the 20% that don't fall in the fake marriage category.

But Bro xconcepx's point is also very logical, because traditionally, Chinese like big wedding parties, not only do the newly weds invite their friends, their parents would invite their friends too ! I had 500 guests myself when I got married ! :miao:

[xconcepx]

So at the end of the day the number of people that attends a wedding has NOTHING to do with the marriage being real or fake.
Enough said!

Unless of course they are being judged by where they come from and if they fall into the %80 or %20 categories or chances or being right or wrong.
Don't complicate $hit!


My comments were not meant to offend anyone and were just things i thought others would be interested to know.

I did say in the original post that u can have an intimate wedding with fewer ppl and nothing wrong with that.
But i eat out a lot and know the owners of most of the places i go to and this is the info they've shared with me.
Also, pointed out that usually these things happen on a sunday as its a hell of a lot cheaper and as its a fake no one feels the need to drink so are fine to attend and go to work the next day.
From my own experience, being asian myself i get invited to a wedding almost twice a month, many of which i have no idea who they are and than turns out its a relative of a friend or something that i met once at a party, which goes back to
what willnos said, we asians typically like big weddings. Ive also never been to a wedding with less than 20 tables which is minimum 200 ppl assuming its the smaller 10 per table setup and also never seen a wedding where ppl dont drink and get wasted.

Thats not to say that ALL weddings on a sunday or have a small party are fake, but just shedding light on the possibility that it is more likely to be fake based on what ive been told by various restaurant owners and my own experience.

[Sextus]

Where do they get even twenty guests in on the scam??

The government doesn't attend the wedding to check!

Why don't they just go to a registry office and hire an Elvis impersonator as their best man / witness?

[xconcepx]

Where do they get even twenty guests in on the scam??

The government doesn't attend the wedding to check!

Why don't they just go to a registry office and hire an Elvis impersonator as their best man / witness?

even though it may not be checked at the time they still need proof, as in photos, confirmation from venue etc just in case.
easy to get friends and family out if you offer a free 10 course meal lol. and its usually paid for by the person trying to get the visa.

[Sextus]

But, the friends and family are going to know the groom really well, and a free lovely ten course Chinese meal or not, they will know it is a dodgy wedding! That is putting a lot of responsibility onto them. At least with a registry wedding, apart from Elvis, you don't need to tell anyone else about it.

[Licker]

even though it may not be checked at the time they still need proof, as in photos, confirmation from venue etc just in case.


Immigration is not interested about the size of the wedding party or whether there was a party at all.
Why would they be?
There is no lawful requirement to have a wedding reception, nor even a wedding for that matter.
A defacto relationship is in the eyes of the law as valid for partner visa as marriage is.
Even a gay couple can apply for a spouse visa.

[Licker]

Rather than speculating over the matter here, why don't you look up the information from the Department of immigration's website.
It's all there readily available.
Partner Category Visa Options - If you are in Australia (http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/partner-inside.htm)

Partner Category Visa Options - If you are in Australia

Partners and fiancés of Australian citizens, Australian permanent residents or eligible New Zealand citizens may apply to enter and/or remain permanently in Australia and include:

- people intending to get married (fiancés)
- married (de jure) partners
- de facto partners (including those in a same-sex relationship).

Partner temporary visa (subclass 820) and permanent visa (subclass 801)
For people to stay in Australia with their partner, who must be an Australian citizen, Australian permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen. If two years after you apply the spousal relationship is ongoing, a permanent visa may be granted.

[wilisno]

Immigration is not interested about the size of the wedding party or whether there was a party at all.
Why would they be?
There is no lawful requirement to have a wedding reception, nor even a wedding for that matter.
A defacto relationship is in the eyes of the law as valid for partner visa as marriage is.
Even a gay couple can apply for a spouse visa.

It's not a speculation, it's a comment !

Regardless of what the Immigration website says, that's what they do in checking the authenticity of a spouse visa application. At least that's what the solicitors want their clients to prepare for them. Not only photos of the wedding ceremony and the reception, ( but of course, size does not matter here ), but photos of the couple at every occasion like a sight seeing trip or something like that, anything that proves they've been involved in together during the two years, including receipts of restaurants they've eaten out together !

The above is not speculation either, a female cousin of mine is here now and has got her PR, she had to go through all these things although she's in a genuine marriage !

[Licker]

It's not a speculation, it's a comment !

Regardless of what the Immigration website says, that's what they do in checking the authenticity of a spouse visa application. At least that's what the solicitors want their clients to prepare for them. Not only photos of the wedding ceremony and the reception, ( but of course, size does not matter here ), but photos of the couple at every occasion like a sight seeing trip or something like that, anything that proves they've been involved in together during the two years, including receipts of restaurants they've eaten out together !

The above is not speculation either, a female cousin of mine is here now and has got her PR, she had to go through all these things although she's in a genuine marriage !

I am well aware what and how much evidence they require, but like you pointed out: it is not as much a single event (like photos of the wedding) that they are after rather than a continuous string of evidence that shows that you have actually been living as a couple.

I have several friends who have either married an Aussie (or vise versa, Aussies who have married a non citizen) and who have gone through the process.
The amount of evidence required is sometimes staggering. Most of them have had at least a 3 inch thick pile of papers and photos.

And before anyone of you ask. None of them has been a WL or ML. :miao:
And apart from one, all from either Europe or North America.

[wilisno]

I am well aware what and how much evidence they require, but like you pointed out: it is not as much a single event (like photos of the wedding) that they are after rather than a continuous string of evidence that shows that you have actually been living as a couple.

I have several friends who have either married an Aussie (or vise versa, Aussies who have married a non citizen) and who have gone through the process.
The amount of evidence required is sometimes staggering. Most of them have had at least a 3 inch thick pile of papers and photos.

And before anyone of you ask. None of them has been a WL or ML. :miao:
And apart from one, all from either Europe or North America.

So we're not speculating right from the start ! All the things mentioned are facts, not speculations ! Including xconcepX's comment that larger wedding parties are usually genuine weddings !

[myron]

this visa topic seems to always pop up every a while, together with relationship/dating with WLs =)

[wilisno]

Wilisno - your argument seems to be - 'larger weddings are likely to be genuine weddings, therefore smaller weddings are less likely to be genuine weddings...'

I think you inferences are invalid - this is a false exclusionary disjunct.

2 things you've got it wrong to start with BLACKBIRD !

Firstly, it's xconcepx's statement, not mine.

Secondly, it's not an argument, it's just an observation, no one claimed to be the authority of it.

And maybe thirdly, you've misinterpreted my post. I said bigger weddings are more likely to be genuine, that doesn't mean smaller weddings are less likely to be genuine. It only says that fake weddings are likely to be smaller. Maybe you can't tell the difference ?

I'll try to put it another way :

Smaller weddings are not usually fake, but fake weddings are usually small !

[chloee]

I'm seeing a soon to be published smh.com.au article about these arrangements or possibly a today tonight type exposé!

[Sextus]

I think you inferences are invalid - this is a false exclusionary disjunct.

I'll give you one thing Blackbird - you don't talk down to your audience!

I'm still trying to figure out what Wayne's "modal sentences" are, and this is harder!!

[wilisno]

Xconcepx, ok sure - he said most small weddings are fake. You agreed with him (said he was '80% right') because 'chinese people like big weddings'

Sorry bro - this is a flawed argument (an argument based on observation) and a hopelessly broad generalisation



Smaller weddings are not usually fake, but fake weddings are usually small !


If you can't work out what my statement above means, I can't help you !

No need to be sorry, it's an argument only because you want to make it an argument. It's a generalization because you make it a generalization.

[lonely heart]

I see.

Lets move on.

Does anyone know someone that participated in a cash-for-visa scam and then fell in love ... Like that movie with the french guy, you know the one

Its call Greencard, i think

[xconcepx]

If you can't work out what my statement above means, I can't help you !

No need to be sorry, it's an argument only because you want to make it an argument. It's a generalization because you make it a generalization.

I dont get why some ppl are getting so worked up about it. Its just info that others have shared. No ones claimed to be posting 100% factual info. Just their thoughts and observations.

[wilisno]

I dont get why some ppl are getting so worked up about it. Its just info that others have shared. No ones claimed to be posting 100% factual info. Just their thoughts and observations.

As I said, it's an argument only because he wants to make it an argument !

[Sextus]

Blackbird only means "argument" in the sense of a reasoned set of facts put forward - he doesn't meant it in the "dispute" sense that you are inferring Wilisno.

Your previous post was good though. It makes me wish we could find something decent to argue about between ourselves again. I fucking love a verbal challenge. It twitches my typing fingers into a life of their own. Any suggestions?

[Licker]

So we're not speculating right from the start ! All the things mentioned are facts, not speculations ! Including xconcepX's comment that larger wedding parties are usually genuine weddings !

Well, if you read my first post carefully you notice that I had no comments on the SIZE of the wedding party being an indicator of a genuine wedding or not.
I was just pointing out the fact that such an event (a wedding) is not even a requirement for a visa, as Australian law recognizes both de jure and de facto spouses equally (getting married may help in the burden of proof though). This is the matter also in the case of splitting the assets in the case of a divorce or separation.


My second post about speculating on the matter of a fake marriage was more to the fact that if you actually read the requirements for the spouse visa being granted from the immigration website (and not just the first page I quoted) you soon notice that the idea of a fake marriage that some here have expressed as a way to easy money by... get married... get the dough from the girl... live your life as usual... get a divorce after two years... is far from easily achievable.

First off, if you both are in Australia, before you can apply for a spouse visa you have to have been married or lived in a de facto relationship for a year. It is really hard to come up with the required evidence (typically excepted proof in addition to those photos, etc. include a shared bank account, shared rental lease, a gas or electricity account on both of your names, etc.).
And that only gets her (or him) a temporary visa.

Then you have to keep living together (immigration can do spot checks at will) for another 2 years before you can apply for a permanent visa.

The processing time for both the temporary and the permanent visa can be anything from 2 months to 6 months, so in reality you have to live together and maintain that chain of evidence for 3.5 to 4 years.

Now, if you don't really like each others company, that becomes pretty soon a living hell.

What if during that time you meet the girl of your dreams? What then?

Or if you manage to get through that 3 to 4 year period, get your measly 60k (15 to 20 per year) and get divorced and you think all is well.
How about if you then meet the girl of your dreams and she's not an Aussie and you want to sponsor her a visa?
Nope, not gonna happen. In the event of divorce from your previously sponsored spouse, you are excluded from sponsoring another spouse visa for 5 years from the application of the first PR visa. So you have to wait for another 3 years from your divorce before you could sponsor a new visa.


On the other hand... if you do like each other, and live together and get married and stay married, what's fake about it?
Would you take 60k from the girl you love?


P.S. just to make sure, not to be misunderstood... by 'you' I am not referring to any particular individual or couple, it's just easier to say than repeating 'the person' or 'the couple' in each sentence.

[lonely heart]

I am actually interested in the original posting. I do not realise the market price for female now has to include so much stuff!!! WTF?? 65K to 70K ok, Rent paid ok, but bed room benefit too!!!! OMG why I do it for fre for my ex:anger::anger:

But again girls that have to include all this in the package must be soso in quality. May as well ask her to up the price and not include bed room activities.

[wilisno]

Well, if you read my first post carefully you notice that I had no comments on the SIZE of the wedding party being an indicator of a genuine wedding or not.
I was just pointing out the fact that such an event (a wedding) is not even a requirement for a visa, as Australian law recognizes both de jure and de facto spouses equally (getting married may help in the burden of proof though). This is the matter also in the case of splitting the assets in the case of a divorce or separation.


My second post about speculating on the matter of a fake marriage was more to the fact that if you actually read the requirements for the spouse visa being granted from the immigration website (and not just the first page I quoted) you soon notice that the idea of a fake marriage that some here have expressed as a way to easy money by... get married... get the dough from the girl... live your life as usual... get a divorce after two years... is far from easily achievable.

First off, if you both are in Australia, before you can apply for a spouse visa you have to have been married or lived in a de facto relationship for a year. It is really hard to come up with the required evidence (typically excepted proof in addition to those photos, etc. include a shared bank account, shared rental lease, a gas or electricity account on both of your names, etc.).
And that only gets her (or him) a temporary visa.

Then you have to keep living together (immigration can do spot checks at will) for another 2 years before you can apply for a permanent visa.

The processing time for both the temporary and the permanent visa can be anything from 2 months to 6 months, so in reality you have to live together and maintain that chain of evidence for 3.5 to 4 years.

Now, if you don't really like each others company, that becomes pretty soon a living hell.

What if during that time you meet the girl of your dreams? What then?

Or if you manage to get through that 3 to 4 year period, get your measly 60k (15 to 20 per year) and get divorced and you think all is well.
How about if you then meet the girl of your dreams and she's not an Aussie and you want to sponsor her a visa?
Nope, not gonna happen. In the event of divorce from your previously sponsored spouse, you are excluded from sponsoring another spouse visa for 5 years from the application of the first PR visa. So you have to wait for another 3 years from your divorce before you could sponsor a new visa.


On the other hand... if you do like each other, and live together and get married and stay married, what's fake about it?
Would you take 60k from the girl you love?


P.S. just to make sure, not to be misunderstood... by 'you' I am not referring to any particular individual or couple, it's just easier to say than repeating 'the person' or 'the couple' in each sentence.

After reading your post twice, I still don't know why you quoted my words !

But your first paragraph saying the wedding is not a requirement for a visa, although it's true, but in the process of granting a visa, the wedding is definitely part of the investigations.

[IExperiment]

Mmm ... for arguement sake, you're right, the modern generation, especially the interracial marriages might or might not have a big party. So it's the 20% that don't fall in the fake marriage category.

But Bro xconcepx's point is also very logical, because traditionally, Chinese like big wedding parties, not only do the newly weds invite their friends, their parents would invite their friends too ! I had 500 guests myself when I got married ! :miao:

Wtf you got married and had 500 guess :) damn how long ago was this man...lol... I had 10 people only in my second marriage :) I feel sorry for the new misses but than again she only wanted me to be happy so as long as she have me she dont care or steal me :)

[wilisno]

Yeah, I meant argument as in proposition..

I agree with sextus, its good to have debates about issues of substance and disagreement is a healthy thing .. Its when people take criticism of their ideas personally that things start to get nasty.

A criticism to one's idea and a criticism to a person are two different things, especially when you put words in his mouth for the criticism :



Wilisno - your argument seems to be - 'larger weddings are likely to be genuine weddings, therefore smaller weddings are less likely to be genuine weddings...'

I think you inferences are invalid - this is a false exclusionary disjunct.

[wilisno]

Wtf you got married and had 500 guess :) damn how long ago was this man...lol... I had 10 people only in my second marriage :) I feel sorry for the new misses but than again she only wanted me to be happy so as long as she have me she dont care or steal me :)

Too long ago, but so what ? Divorced all the same ! :miao:

[IExperiment]

Jeez lol big and small does not make any different now and the Gov cant check from a photo wether the wedding is fake or not.

[IExperiment]

Too long ago, but so what ? Divorced all the same ! :miao:

Did not know you were ever married :) now I know your here so often I though you were single, you got kid or kids :) I have many all I can say is :)

[Licker]

Bro wilisno,
as we often see things eye to eye, I don't really want to argue with you (even for the sake of a debate).

But in this case I will. lol (don't take it personally, I've had a bottle of wine)


After reading your post twice, I still don't know why you quoted my words !

I actually did NOT quote you until you had quoted me first. Do you disagree?


But your first paragraph saying the wedding is not a requirement for a visa, although it's true, but in the process of granting a visa, the wedding is definitely part of the investigations.

I don't dispute that the wedding (and photos of it) would not be a part of the investigation (or rather not investigation, but evidence you can provide to support your application).
I am saying that such an event as wedding (or marriage for that matter) does not necessarily even have to happen.

[wilisno]

Jeez lol big and small does not make any different now and the Gov cant check from a photo wether the wedding is fake or not.

I don't think they will check, especially the evidence you present is so convincing and in abundance. They will only check if they have suspicion, then people in the photos can be witnesses. So still, the more evidence the better !

[wilisno]

Bro wilisno,
as we often see things eye to eye, I don't really want to argue with you (even for the sake of a debate).

But in this case I will. lol (don't take it personally, I've had a bottle of wine)



I actually did NOT quote you until you had quoted me first. Do you disagree?



I don't dispute that the wedding (and photos of it) would not be a part of the investigation (or rather not investigation, but evidence you can provide to support your application).
I am saying that such an event as wedding (or marriage for that matter) does not necessarily even have to happen.

I must say you're a worthy debating partner, Brother ! Haha, to the point but without malice. But my response to your last paragraph is the same as I replied to bro IExperiment !

[Sextus]

The processing time for both the temporary and the permanent visa can be anything from 2 months to 6 months, so in reality you have to live together and maintain that chain of evidence for 3.5 to 4 years.

Now, if you don't really like each others company, that becomes pretty soon a living hell.

What if during that time you meet the girl of your dreams? What then?

Or if you manage to get through that 3 to 4 year period, get your measly 60k (15 to 20 per year) and get divorced and you think all is well.

On the other hand... if you do like each other, and live together and get married and stay married, what's fake about it?

Would you take 60k from the girl you love?

Great logic to that.

When this topic first came up in another related thread I got a bit starry eyed about it, but this nails just what a difficult commitment it really is.

10% of the same effort put into your own career (mine for example) would yield me a lot more than 15 to 20 (more) a year.

Conclusion?

Just stick to what you are best at. It makes the best economic sense - and not just in a monetary sense.

[Sextus]

Its good to have debates about issues of substance and disagreement is a healthy thing .. Its when people take criticism of their ideas personally that things start to get nasty.

I've only been on this forum for a few months, but I suspect this remark has probably been made a thousand times in its history!

[8inches]

I've only been on this forum for a few months, but I suspect this remark has probably been made a thousand times in its history!

Along with 'is bbbj safe?' 'which wls provide dd' and my all time favorites 'broken condom' and 'xxxxx gave me chlamydia'

[Licker]

Along with 'is bbbj safe?' 'which wls provide dd' and my all time favorites 'broken condom' and 'xxxxx gave me chlamydia'

Hmm...
Could you actually use those when the immigration officer is questioning you?

immigration officer: "What was he wearing last night?"
She: "Nothing. I did the BJ bareback."

immigration officer: "What made you first realize you love her?"
You: "I think it was the DD."

immigration officer: "When did you decide to get married?"
You: "well, it was after the 'broken condom' incident."

immigration officer: "What did she give you as a Christmas present?"
You: 'She gave me chlamydia.'

You reckon the interview would last long?

[8inches]

This is the post of the year!



Hmm...
Could you actually use those when the immigration officer is questioning you?

immigration officer: "What was he wearing last night?"
She: "Nothing. I did the BJ bareback."

immigration officer: "What made you first realize you love her?"
You: "I think it was the DD."

immigration officer: "When did you decide to get married?"
You: "well, it was after the 'broken condom' incident."

immigration officer: "What did she give you as a Christmas present?"
You: 'She gave me chlamydia.'

You reckon the interview would last long?

[wilisno]

This is the post of the year!

Agree, got to print it out and frame it !

[guailo]

On the original posting. Heard (and this is just rumours, just in case some law enforcement type is snooping around these forums) that 65K or thereabouts is no longer the market rate. A non-Aus girl being sponsored by an Aus - about 80K (or more). Some girls may pay less but with bedroom benefit. Non-Aus guys being sponsored by an Aus - 90K to 100K and forget about bedroom benefits (unless the guy is damn near irresistible). As immigration gets tougher, the market rate goes up. Free market economics in action.

[xconcepx]

On the original posting. Heard (and this is just rumours, just in case some law enforcement type is snooping around these forums) that 65K or thereabouts is no longer the market rate. A non-Aus girl being sponsored by an Aus - about 80K (or more). Some girls may pay less but with bedroom benefit. Non-Aus guys being sponsored by an Aus - 90K to 100K and forget about bedroom benefits (unless the guy is damn near irresistible). As immigration gets tougher, the market rate goes up. Free market economics in action.

yeah same from what ive heard as well.

and with all the advancements in social media its even harder to keep up the gig. u can always choose not to post about urself but a bit hard to stop everyone that knows u doing it.
i know so many ppl that have been busted on facebook when they were supposedly doing one thing that photo evidence innocently posted by a mate contradicts that!

[Licker]

My favorite - 'what does it mean when a ML/WL gives you her number??'

Isn't that kinda why we are having this 'buying a visa' thread?

[naturalism]

I must be too poor, or ugly as sin (most likely both)... never been asked.

[8inches]

I must be too poor, or ugly as sin (most likely both)... never been asked.

Looks or money is not the reason.
An Aussie passport does the trick everytime

[Cracker38]

Why put your life on hold for the time it takes for the girl to get PR. Sure you might get some money, but you can't really live your own life and risk the possibility of getting caught facing serious penalties.
I would rather my freedom

[project_manager006]

Just looked into this, and appears that you don't have to get married, but can just claim to be in a de factor relationship, so she can apply for a visa on the basis that you are her de facto partner.

Anyone confirm?

[8inches]

It's not as simple as that.
Defacto visas require proof of living together for 12 months.

[jellyshots]

Yep, you need joint bank accounts, lease agreements, bills etc, about 12 months worth. Affidavits from friends and family, an album of photos from different time periods and they will as you all sorts of mundane questions separately to see if it matches up such as "which side of the bed do you sleep on?"

[project_manager006]

Yep, you need joint bank accounts, lease agreements, bills etc, about 12 months worth. Affidavits from friends and family, an album of photos from different time periods and they will as you all sorts of mundane questions separately to see if it matches up such as "which side of the bed do you sleep on?"

Alright, assume you do all that and get her the visa to stay. What's to stop her from just leaving you after that (and not paying as agreed)?

[slarty]

I must be too poor, or ugly as sin (most likely both)... never been asked.

Has a WL/ML ever asked if you are married? This is usually the opener. Of course there's always the chance they are trying to make conversation. However if its on the first visit its a bit of a give away there might be a hidden agenda :).

[naturalism]

Has a WL/ML ever asked if you are married? This is usually the opener. Of course there's always the chance they are trying to make conversation. However if its on the first visit its a bit of a give away there might be a hidden agenda :).

I am always wearing my wedding ring when going for a punt (scared I'd lose it if I took it off) so that might be the main reason why the ladies never ask me. Thanks slarty, I may not be too ugly after all.

[Revvedup]

Get the WL to take you on a holiday together, her shout, that will go a long way to locking in the visa. It's not always as hard as some are making out here, the Government doesn't have the time or resources to investigate each and every asian WL visa application with an aussie in tow.

[jellyshots]

Alright, assume you do all that and get her the visa to stay. What's to stop her from just leaving you after that (and not paying as agreed)?

Dude, have the ML's taught you nothing? Money first!

[wilisno]

Dude, have the ML's taught you nothing? Money first!
Exactly ! Full payment before the last document signed, not after !

[Sextus]

Exactly ! Full payment before the last document signed, not after !

Where, exactly, would a WL / ML lay her hands on that kind of money upfront??

[jellyshots]

Well most of them work in shops overseas so saving up, I guess. Or maybe embezelling?

[africanw]

Where, exactly, would a WL / ML lay her hands on that kind of money upfront??

Family, they can bring the rest later.

I married an Asian women a few years back and yes it is not that hard (we married coz we wanted too not for visa) just a lot of paper work and time and money.

My wife knows a few thai girls who married older Ozzie guys and once the two years where up they just divored the guy and went on with there life.

[wilisno]

Where, exactly, would a WL / ML lay her hands on that kind of money upfront??
If they don't have the money, I'm sure they won't be looking for this kind of deals !

[aussiegaigin]

Get the WL to take you on a holiday together, her shout, that will go a long way to locking in the visa. It's not always as hard as some are making out here, the Government doesn't have the time or resources to investigate each and every asian WL visa application with an aussie in tow.

Don't be too sure. Every visa application requires an interview with an immigration official at some stage of the process. If they suspect something suspicious they will run a full investigation. A lot depends on how good your paperwork is.

[playerz]

I am actually interested in the original posting. I do not realise the market price for female now has to include so much stuff!!! WTF?? 65K to 70K ok, Rent paid ok, but bed room benefit too!!!! OMG why I do it for fre for my ex:anger::anger:

But again girls that have to include all this in the package must be soso in quality. May as well ask her to up the price and not include bed room activities.
Same here bro. Sponsored my ex wife whom I met at Uni. Then things didn't work out. So only 1 sponsorship left for us, coz rules changed to 2 sponsorships only.

[project_manager006]

Same here bro. Sponsored my ex wife whom I met at Uni. Then things didn't work out. So only 1 sponsorship left for us, coz rules changed to 2 sponsorships only.

Just wondering bro, do you ever think it's possible your ex had planned it all along?

Sometimes I think I am too distrustful of women.

[playerz]

Not my ex dude. Coz she was quite happy back home after her graduation. I was the one who went there, and ask her to come back. Plus even now that we've divorced, she's still trying to hook me up with girls she feels will make me happy for the rest of my life - no animosity at all.

[jellyshots]

Most guys would do this for free if the girl was good looking and threw in bedroom benefits. They pretty much would have to anyway because of the visa conditions and what they ask. Not sure what a guy would really get out of it. Free sex, yeah but only until she filled out her paperwork and got the stamp of approval from immigration. Then she's back to working in a shop and probably banging 3-4 guys on the side.

[Sextus]

I wonder what she tells the immigration officials her job is in Australia during the marriage?

No fee from her if she is good looking? Jeez, that's bullshit!

[jellyshots]

Was chatting to a friend today about restaurant scams. They charge the worker 30k, bring them into work in kitchen, sponsored and pay them award wages. Employer pays 4k for visa with profit of 26k.

[Licker]

I wonder what she tells the immigration officials her job is in Australia during the marriage?


Personal penile health consultant?

[wilisno]

Personal penile health consultant?

Relationship commitment therapist !

[Sextus]

Keep the suggestions coming please!

In the meantime it has occurred to me that there should be no obstacle to her declaring outright that she is a wl. It is a legitimate and valuable occupation.

In fact, I, for one, am a very big fan of it. And I have an idea that I am not alone amongst you who may be reading this.

The immigration department isn't overseen by the Australian Council of Churches, and a person's legitimate occupation is none of anyone's business as far as I can see.

On another matter, I'm wondering how the groom would explain the source of an upfront payment and sudden transference of a sizeable amout of money into his bank account?

[wilisno]

On another matter, I'm wondering how the groom would explain the source of an upfront payment and sudden transference of a sizeable amout of money into his bank account?

Well ! Nothing's wrong with the wife wanting to share her fortune with the husband ! Just as husband with wife !

[Cloudybay]

Well ! Nothing's wrong with the wife wanting to share her fortune with the husband ! Just as husband with wife !

Well, Does it mean when she divorce "HIM" ,, chance she may has 50% back or even more if she able to substainte the claim that she financially depending on "HIM"

[wilisno]

Well, Does it mean when she divorce "HIM" ,, chance she may has 50% back or even more if she able to substainte the claim that she financially depending on "HIM"

I wouldn't know how exactly it works, but I'm sure there are some sort of binding agreements in place. To start with, payments would be made at different stages of the process, not a lump sum, so the final payment before the final signature sort of things !

[jellyshots]

I'm sure pre nup agreement should be done. Also, if she declares being a wl, it's equally the case that you could ask for 50% if her earning capacity was more than yours...

[project_manager006]

I was chatting to this Chinese WL a few nights ago about this, not sure if she was serious or just bantering, but she asked if I could help her as her visa expires March.

I said I can't because I just met her and we'd need to prove we'd been in a relationship for a year. She suddenly got angry and said all Aussie guys (think she means citizens) know how to help.

[rooter]

I always get asked two questions by WLs and MLs.:
Are you single?
Are you Australian?
Innocent enough questions I suppose but I am sure some of them are looking for a potential partner/permanent residency etc.

[Cloudybay]

I'm sure pre nup agreement should be done. Also, if she declares being a wl, it's equally the case that you could ask for 50% if her earning capacity was more than yours...

Prenup no guarantee.
How to ensure "proper advice" been given prior to signing of Pre-nup.? would be interested brothers better follow the "Pole Dancer" case closely....

[jellyshots]

Prenup no guarantee.
How to ensure "proper advice" been given prior to signing of Pre-nup.? would be interested brothers better follow the "Pole Dancer" case closely....

Of course but if you don't have one, you'll definitely lose out. I'd rather follow the Zumba instructor prostitution case. It has all the makings of B-grade porn. Hot latina dance instructor, pizza guy, secret client list...

[orangejuice925]

"I must be too poor, or ugly as sin (most likely both)... never been asked."

Me too.

[Revvedup]

My naivety led me to think the queries like "Is this your home ?" and "Are you Australian, married?" were casual chit-chat......

[orangejuice925]

It's naivete. And I also thought it was casual chit chat.

[CunningLinguist]

Where can I find these WLs that will pay for citenship, my new religion supports polygamy :)
$70K each with free bedroom services, heaven :)
I'll take 5!

[rage_face]

I heard that there are forums where Chinese people seek out foreigners for visas. Anyone know of any forums?

[jellyshots]

Where can I find these WLs that will pay for citenship, my new religion supports polygamy :)
$70K each with free bedroom services, heaven :)
I'll take 5!

Yes, and if their parents felt the need to buy a few investment properties while they "studied", I'd make sure to take care of them.

[rubntug]

Going rate is anywhere between $60k to $80k these days - was offered $70k last year to help out a Viet student (not a WL/ML, so possibly no benefits).

Deal was half upfront, other half on granting of PR - I didn't proceed since the ex wasn't too keen on me doing it.

In hindsight, should have... ex is now long gone and I would be at least $35k richer as well.

[Licker]

I heard that there are forums where Chinese people seek out foreigners for visas. Anyone know of any forums?

LOL.

Are you trying to get back the money your "Friend" gave to the Korean chick?
Would you buy out a WL? (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?37407-Would-you-buy-out-a-WL&p=406282&viewfull=1#post406282)

[rage_face]

LOL.

Are you trying to get back the money your "Friend" gave to the Korean chick?
Would you buy out a WL? (http://forum.aus99.com/showthread.php?37407-Would-you-buy-out-a-WL&p=406282&viewfull=1#post406282)

Actually believe it or not I need it for work purposes. But now that you mention it...

[PK_Norm]

60-80k isn't alot when you think about the amount of
Time invested and risks involved. Depends on your own finances I guess...

[newbie111]

I always get asked two questions by WLs and MLs.:
Are you single?
Are you Australian?
Innocent enough questions I suppose but I am sure some of them are looking for a potential partner/permanent residency etc.

haha usually they ask me do you live around here? where do you work?

[jellyshots]

haha usually they ask me do you live around here? where do you work?

The ones I get lately are... And my answers are...
How many of the girls have you kissed in here? All the ones I've booked. Eventually they all do it.
Does xxx kiss better than me? I can't remember, lets kiss again and find out.
Who do you think is the hottest? I can't remember, jog my memory.
How many girls in here have you fingered? Do you really want to know?
How many girls in here have you fucked? The ones I have would surprise you, the ones I haven't would surprise you.

Mind you, even the lesbians ask me this and my answer is the same. They usually ask after I've done what they're asking about too.