Drug testing for the dole?

[BuryYourDead]

Discuss.
I do not agree with this practice.

Putting people who are already struggling mentally and financially, on to a pedestal wearing a dunce cap labeled "Drug Abuser", is not the answer.
If they are already using drugs, and dont have regard for their future, then expect an increase in home invasions and many other crimes, if you take away their benefits.

[liminal]

Agreed

it’s invasive and not in anyway a threshold that should be used to exclude and penalise

If implemented could then be used for people on any form of welfare including pensioners (🙄) students , sgl parents , or recipients of family benefits etc


farcical policy think tank shite

[moz]

Tough one. I'm a firm believer in drug decriminalisation and personal choice.

However equally I don't want to see welfare (paid for by my tax dollars) to be wasted or used to fund criminal enterprise.
Even moreso where the recipient has kids and drug use is diverting funds away from them.

Same reason why I support the welfare cards not being able to be used for booze or cigarettes.. If its your own money do as you will, if its a handout, use it productively.

[Forward Must Hang]

^ This.

It is a tough one.

I think if you're on welfare and you are supporting a family and you are wasting your money on getting wasted at the expense of your kids wellbeing then please step up so I can kick some damn sense into you.

Having said that, I have had problems some decades ago with excessive drinking and some years after that, a cannabis addiction. I'm coming clean here for what it's worth - no moral high ground. I didn't have kids or a steady partner at the time, it just me and the dog, who was looked after better than me I think. I know how hard it is to beat a habit. I also get it must be hard for someone on welfare to deprive themselves of the same fun that everyone around is having.

Here's a solution, how about instead of the geniuses in the government spending money on drug testing welfare recipients, how about they spend that money helping people kick their habits? Okay, it won't work for all that decide to give it a go, but surely it's a step in the right direction. And it's not as if drug test a dole recipient is going to be foolproof. If drug abuse is such as issue, then how about positive action instead of kicking a bloke when they're down.

Maybe if reality wasn't so f**king depressing less people would try to avoid it?

FMH

[CunningLinguist]

If you withold their dole money they will need to brake into your house or car to earn living, or some other criminal act, or sell their bodies if anyone will pay.
If you give them dole money will they spend all of it on drugs or just some ? It will be a mix.
So on balance I think it i better for society as a whole to give them the money. Without a safety net society becomes more fragmented and more dangerous.

[Lostinblonde]

i dont want my tax money to fund them for the drug, end of story

[rooter]

There is no merit to the policy, but that doesn’t matter.
It’s purely a populist policy.
Morrison has a background in advertising.
He knows that people are full of fear, greed, insecurity, ignorance, aspiration, envy, and prejudice.
Advertisers know this and use it to sell people billions of dollars worth of stuff.
Politicians who know this also get elected time and time again.

[aussiegaigin]

i dont want my tax money to fund them for the drug, end of story

So they will break into your house looking for things that will fund their habit.

[The Immortal]

There is a lot ignorance being shown here.

The "dole" is not cut off. When 1 positive test is returned the person is placed on Income Management for 24 months and tested again in 25 days. Trial participants who test positive twice to a testable drug will be referred to a medical professional for treatment.

Income Management limits the amount of money people can withdraw as cash, with the remaining funds quarantined for the purchase of essentials for themselves and their families – such as rent, childcare, food, school uniforms and household needs. No cash to buy drugs!!

It only applies to Youth Allowance and Newstart. No other forms of welfare will be affected

[The Immortal]

i dont want my tax money to fund them for the drug, end of story

Your tax money already does. What do you think most people with substance use disorder do with their benefit now?

[liminal]

There is a lot ignorance being shown here.


The "dole" is not cut off. When 1 positive test is returned the person is placed on Income Management for 24 months and tested again in 25 days. Trial participants who test positive twice to a testable drug will be referred to a medical professional for treatment.

Income Management limits the amount of money people can withdraw as cash, with the remaining funds quarantined for the purchase of essentials for themselves and their families – such as rent, childcare, food, school uniforms and household needs. No cash to buy drugs!!

It only applies to Youth Allowance and Newstart. No other forms of welfare will be affected

Still policy wonks

and why not role it out to other welfare areas.

[The Immortal]

Still policy wonks

and why not role it out to other welfare areas.

Because it costs an absolute fortune. The government will not only pay for the administration of the scheme, the staff, the actual tests (probably will use saliva tests like the police), increased salaries to staff in public Drug Health clinics and detox units when the influx hits and still pays the full benefit to the recipients.

That's going to cost a bomb and when it's all said and done taxpayers will still be paying but at least it will go a fair way to drying up available cash to people to buy drugs.

[liminal]

Because it costs an absolute fortune. The government will not only pay for the administration of the scheme, the staff, the actual tests (probably will use saliva tests like the police), increased salaries to staff in public Drug Health clinics and detox units when the influx hits and still pays the full benefit to the recipients.

That's going to cost a bomb and when it's all said and done taxpayers will still be paying but at least it will go a fair way to drying up available cash to people to buy drugs.

Yes Minister

So we will likely pay more adding to the burdened system as it is in order to not save anything ?

[CunningLinguist]

i dont want my tax money to fund them for the drug, end of story

What about alcohol and cigarettes ...

[sleepy57]

Forget the drugs ,alcohol & cigarettes .How do they pay for a PUNT ?????

[Climax598]

Test all people from GG to the person in the street then is fair.

[Bundyon]

If you genuinely become unemployed and have a history of permanent employment for a period of time you should be excluded, if you have been on the dole for more than say two years, with no disability or extenuating surcamstances that inhibit you from being employed than you should be questioned of all manner of things before being tested for drugs, and then yes tested for drugs also, there is a systemic and endemic small populace that take advantage of our good natured social benefits in this country and that is a fact.
Each case on its merit .........

[krnboy]

Discuss.
I do not agree with this practice.

Putting people who are already struggling mentally and financially, on to a pedestal wearing a dunce cap labeled "Drug Abuser", is not the answer.
If they are already using drugs, and dont have regard for their future, then expect an increase in home invasions and many other crimes, if you take away their benefits.

Government is trailing it in the areas that are expected find so called "junkies". Therefore it is easier for the government will implement it.

I don't agree with it...

[kase]

Government is introducing a welfare debit card with restrictions on what you spend your welfare money on

[BuryYourDead]

Interesting views.
Even restricting access to funds will result in an increase in crime.
They did try this in America, and failed miserably.

Funny story..... this past weekend they took sniffer dogs into the casino for the first time.
And they caught an off duty cop with cocaine.
Sniff Off!

[tkboiz]

Well even if drugs get detected, they'll be sent to rehab funded by the tax payer ofc to the tune of 50~60k wtf?

[studsg]

I see a recurring theme that quite a number of replies believe that withholding dole will result in an increase in home invasion.

But these same ppl still break into homes once they run out of dole and need that fix before the next payout.

So our tax money not only funds criminal drug cartels but doesn't remove these group resorting to crime. Double negative :(

[murphy]

The latest news is that any person on the dole with a drug problem, the taxpayers are to pay for their drug rehab. This service costs $30 000-$60 000 per person

[mattemeiser]

There is a lot ignorance being shown here.

The "dole" is not cut off. When 1 positive test is returned the person is placed on Income Management for 24 months and tested again in 25 days. Trial participants who test positive twice to a testable drug will be referred to a medical professional for treatment.

Income Management limits the amount of money people can withdraw as cash, with the remaining funds quarantined for the purchase of essentials for themselves and their families – such as rent, childcare, food, school uniforms and household needs. No cash to buy drugs!!

It only applies to Youth Allowance and Newstart. No other forms of welfare will be affected

I think that this is a fair method to try to help manage their finances.
As a tax payer, I am not keen on the income people receive to give them a needed helping hand spend it on currently illegal recreational activities when it is meant to feed & house them & their dependants. Recipients are in a tough t ikme in their life & need a helping hand. In Australia we have a safety net to help those in need but this generosity shouldn't be allowed to be exploited. Cause when will it end?

I would be quite annoyed if recipients withdrew their funds, spent it on a quick fix of ice or whatever whilst their children went hungry or they didn't pay their rent. That is akin to child neglect & abuse.

I don't judge anyone for their vices... punting is probably a more expensive recreational activity that I enjoy partaking in & will be doing for many years to come. And my opinion is always that adults are free to make their own decisions how they spend their money but when its money meant to ensure their kids do not starve, is when need to take a look at how can ensure they dont cause deaths of their kids or have them follow in their footsteps and become future recipients.

Didn't know that other forms of pensions do not have similar restrictions. Interesting that these restrictions only apply to the youth recipients and not elder people receiving pension (do not mean seniors etc) who may have an already established drug habbit. Maybe its an attempt to hit it in the bud early on.

But there needs to be accountability and the above is coddling people who are caught partaking in illegal activities and still given the money. So they are quite lucky they aren't kicked out of the system.

Is most likely as other bros have said that if they stop receiving payments will do break-ins etc to fund their vice, so its still tax payers who suffer (whomever is robbed)

-Matt-

[liminal]

Ther is a strong social and economic argument to intervene early and provide support and rehab services

Whilst upfront costs appear eye wateringly sharp the down steam impacts are far reaching in terms Of social family and economic cost

This applies largely across all facets of health and social care

I think about how tax payer monies spent rehabilitating and covering treatment costs for smokers

Same for alcohol abuse etc etc

Perhaps hearing some of the arguments above, there a case to increase nett welfare payments ?

[murphy]

Ther is a strong social and economic argument to intervene early and provide support and rehab services

Whilst upfront costs appear eye wateringly sharp the down steam impacts are far reaching in terms Of social family and economic cost

You may be right. Spending $60 000 to someone to fund their rehab may be cost effective, but many may doubt this, especially with an ageing population and many other strains on the economy.
But what isnt effective is giving people on welfare, cash to splash
If you are going to take welfare for years and years, this is not your money, so a debit card keeps you accountable for what you are doing with other peoples money

[rooter]

There are lot of fucked up people in society.
Why are they fucked up?
Who the fuck knows. So many reasons.
Some are evil psychopaths, some just got a fucked up DNA mix, some were raised with all sorts of issues going on - domestic violence, drunk violent dads, junkie mums, racially vilified, arrived from a fucked up country.
And yeah some people are just fucking lazy.
But a left wing social worker will tell me that that laziness comes from a background of abuse, low self esteem etc.
But yeah there are some evil greedy fucking arseholes out there like the pricks ripping off the child care system or disability system
But they are at the bottom end of scum.
At the top end of scum are people who rarely get busted and are sometimes seen as role models, people like bankers, businessmen etc.

[warwick1]

Tough one. I'm a firm believer in drug decriminalisation and personal choice.

However equally I don't want to see welfare (paid for by my tax dollars) to be wasted or used to fund criminal enterprise.
Even moreso where the recipient has kids and drug use is diverting funds away from them.

Same reason why I support the welfare cards not being able to be used for booze or cigarettes.. If its your own money do as you will, if its a handout, use it productively.

The dole is a privilege not a right,be thankful you live in the lucky country, thats why the so called refugees are waiting for the lefties to get in and open the borders so they can abuse our generosity....

[studsg]

The drug addicts shld be happy they aren't in the Philippines where the president uses the shotgun as his drug rehabilitation program. But that's also why people elected him, cos years of giving money to the addicts and sending them to the rehab centres when they come out and restart their addiction again cos their lives are just plain shit isn't going to end the cycle.

When his enforcement team went around with their shotguns. The streets cleaned up quick and ppl had a strong deterence to avoid going back to their old ways.

Extreme yes. That's why people should be happy they are in AUS instead. Where you can take drugs and drive and kill a family and their kids and just get a light reprimand instead of any jail sentence... What irony :(

[doubles]

There are lot of fucked up people in society.
Why are they fucked up?
Who the fuck knows. So many reasons.
Some are evil psychopaths, some just got a fucked up DNA mix, some were raised with all sorts of issues going on - domestic violence, drunk violent dads, junkie mums, racially vilified, arrived from a fucked up country.
And yeah some people are just fucking lazy.
But a left wing social worker will tell me that that laziness comes from a background of abuse, low self esteem etc.
But yeah there are some evil greedy fucking arseholes out there like the pricks ripping off the child care system or disability system
But they are at the bottom end of scum.
At the top end of scum are people who rarely get busted and are sometimes seen as role models, people like bankers, businessmen etc.

Yep. Still no pre-dawn raids where the media get tipped-off on bankers.

[murphy]

The drug addicts shld be happy they aren't in the Philippines where the president uses the shotgun as his drug rehabilitation program. But that's also why people elected him, cos years of giving money to the addicts and sending them to the rehab centres when they come out and restart their addiction again cos their lives are just plain shit isn't going to end the cycle.

When his enforcement team went around with their shotguns. The streets cleaned up quick and ppl had a strong deterence to avoid going back to their old ways.

Extreme yes. That's why people should be happy they are in AUS instead. Where you can take drugs and drive and kill a family and their kids and just get a light reprimand instead of any jail sentence... What irony :(

Ice absolutely ruins lives. I support the death penalty for drug trafickers. That would drive up the price of drugs too. Today theres an article in the paper of a road rage incident in Sydney. One guy jumped out of his car all aggro. Police were called and found a personal stash of ice in his car. Need I say more

[studsg]

Ice absolutely ruins lives. I support the death penalty for drug trafickers. That would drive up the price of drugs too. Today theres an article in the paper of a road rage incident in Sydney. One guy jumped out of his car all aggro. Police were called and found a personal stash of ice in his car. Need I say moreI'm with you there mate. They should really bring back capital punishment. Tax payers are paying for not only drug addicts, but also the paedophiles, rapist, murderers, etc. All so they get to put on a show & get early parole and come out to do it all over again to the very ppl who pays tax to keep them away from society.

All those money can be better used to pay for more roads, trains, buses, drivers, etc. So we can get to our punts quicker and safer :)

[murphy]

I'm with you there mate. They should really bring back capital punishment. Tax payers are paying for not only drug addicts, but also the paedophiles, rapist, murderers, etc. All so they get to put on a show & get early parole and come out to do it all over again to the very ppl who pays tax to keep them away from society.

All those money can be better used to pay for more roads, trains, buses, drivers, etc. So we can get to our punts quicker and safer :)

What was absolutely unbelievable was when the pedophile Guider who abused many women including 10 yo Samantha Knight, was convicted for the abuse of these many children. But the sentence was short because he served the time concurrently. In other words, all the sentences he copped for jail time were allowed to overlap, so instead of serving a long time, he served a shorter time. Truly wtf

[rooter]

I think they should test people on unemployment benefits for the following products in their system:
Ryvita
Champion tobacco
McDonalds
Almond milk
Jim Beam
Special K (the breakfast cereal and the drug!)
Tofu
Pepsi Max
TipTop bread
Eta margarine
Cottee's jams
Ice
Custard Apples
Pringles
Cherry tomatoes

Anyone who consumes these products has not only forfeited the right to Unemployment Benefits, but also to live in a civilised society.
They should be rounded up and put before a firing squad.

[murphy]

You forgot Krispy creme doughnuts

[liminal]

Capital punishment ... fuk me

for those in support of ... look at the Intl stats on wrongful conviction execution and when a son daughter etc or anyone close to you is on trial and certain state sanctioned death to follow yee haw

Jesus let’s keep stoning women for sex crimes

Rooter you forgot peanut butter extra crunchy and M&m’s

[rooter]

You forgot Krispy creme doughnuts


Rooter you forgot peanut butter extra crunchy and M&m’s

Fuck yeah! I could I forget those crimes against humanity.

My bad, mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa

[studsg]

Capital punishment ... fuk me

for those in support of ... look at the Intl stats on wrongful conviction execution and when a son daughter etc or anyone close to you is on trial and certain state sanctioned death to follow yee haw

Jesus let’s keep stoning women for sex crimes

Rooter you forgot peanut butter extra crunchy and M&m’s

Anyone who has worked with C levels in strategy know that stats are created to sell a story. How else will those private jail operators earn millions without these stats ?

People need to look at the victims side of the story as well. Not just go hey their 10 year old kid got raped, surely they won't be scarred for life and it's ok they will get over it. And by the way the girl's parents can also pay for the food & lodging of the rapist for the next 10 years as tax payers, cos surely they don't mind.

Let's just go with every criminal is someone's family. Let's slap them on the wrist and send them back to the world so they can get high while victimising someone else ?

[murphy]

Capital punishment ... fuk me

for those in support of ... look at the Intl stats on wrongful conviction execution and when a son daughter etc or anyone close to you is on trial and certain state sanctioned death to follow yee haw

Jesus let’s keep stoning women for sex crimes

Rooter you forgot peanut butter extra crunchy and M&m’s

More damning stastistics, which are far easier to quantify, are the impacts of criminal drug distribution and the harming of innocent young lives, entire cities, and the costs of law enforcement and gun crime internationally. Organised crime to a large extent is supported by illicit drugs

A lot of serial killers have faced the electric chair after very compelling evidence, jury trials and several appeals. The death penalty is easily criticised, but in select cases it sure cleans the planet of some absolute scum

[Ether]

Like many government policies that help the poor etc., they have good intentions but poor results

[murphy]

Like many government policies that help the poor etc., they have good intentions but poor results

Noone spends other peoples money as poorly in this country as the Reds, the Greens or the Watermelons

The NBN original plan was botched up on the back of an envelope on a plane trip by pretty incompetent politicians, history says, with no experience on how to run a business. The same circus troupe that dreamt up the Pink Batts insulation scheme. Google that to learn how young men met their fate early

[liminal]

You may be right. Spending $60 000 to someone to fund their rehab may be cost effective, but many may doubt this, especially with an ageing population and many other strains on the economy.
But what isnt effective is giving people on welfare, cash to splash
If you are going to take welfare for years and years, this is not your money, so a debit card keeps you accountable for what you are doing with other peoples money

If I work for 11 years and am a fine upstanding community member can When I am 55 and redundant , with a clear conscience and without fear of been shamed stigmatised or further made to feel without worth receive 10 years worth of welfare ?

[liminal]

Ice absolutely ruins lives. I support the death penalty for drug trafickers. That would drive up the price of drugs too. Today theres an article in the paper of a road rage incident in Sydney. One guy jumped out of his car all aggro. Police were called and found a personal stash of ice in his car. Need I say more


Consider this ... maybe this aggro guy has a history of priors, including rage that may have predated his presumed ice addiction . If so then what assumption can be overreached here ?

Some like to read high fibre ...

Murph. Can we go punting together ..

[studsg]

If I work for 11 years and am a fine upstanding community member can When I am 55 and redundant , with a clear conscience and without fear of been shamed stigmatised or further made to feel without worth receive 10 years worth of welfare ?Tons of people in their late 50s and 60s are still working. Cos they are just bored to death at home if they don't anyway. Plus that way they have da extra to splash on punts.

Many flash their pension cards proudly at stores to get discounts and I've been told will be happy if those cards came with debit function on them too. In fact they are worried everytime they have to go to the ATM to withdraw cash and have to wait for someone to accompany them to do just that.