TraceTogether App

[trampslikeus55]

This appears to be one of the solutions to lifting the current lockdown. Government needs to give pretty good assurances regarding privacy. Still, I'm not going down this road. I'll own up to my travels if required but I have enough problems with Google maps knowing where I am, let alone giving the government a free kick. Any thoughts?

[smiling wide]

I don't know man. I heard about this app being deployed in Singapore a while back but their govt appears a bit more draconian.

I'm a tin foil hat guy, so if it gets adopted, I'll have to start carrying a spare phone in case it had the ability to identify users within the proximity without having blue tooth on. I'll carry a Nokia 208 feature phone around and just make sure I know where I'm going within having the phone on me. Same as punting...

I think the app is relatively safe. You're right about Google maps. I feel it will know where you have been but also stores this data on your phone. Not a fan, as this info can be readily accessible compared to a cloud environment where will require authentication.

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[smiling wide]

Makes sense about lifting restrictions though. That's one benefit I'd do it for. But the tin foil hat stays on

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[onehunglow]

Could always leave the phone at home or turn it off a near a regular haunt like a servo or supermarket. Simple solution to any privacy questions etc.

[Climax598]

Turn off the phone and take the SIM card out. Like in the movie.

[geekstyle]

Could always leave the phone at home or turn it off a near a regular haunt like a servo or supermarket. Simple solution to any privacy questions etc.

It will probably be a condition of breaking lockdown that you have the phone and app on you at all times. If you get pulled over and questioned the police will probably have a device/app that will know if you are complying or not. Risk the $1000 fine I guess.

Bigger question is if businesses are able to operate then they would need to comply too. So if a shop reopens the girls will need phones with the app. Then you will possibly have police doing app compliance raids instead of immigration raids.

Feels very dystopian, but honestly I don't know what week we're into this thing 3 or 4? And I'm sick of it already, I'd give up this privacy freedom just to be able to go out and about.

[geekstyle]

The app will be optional, it is to help trace the virus. If they don't get at least 10 million people to join then they say it will be useless.

Yeah but if you don't join you would still be in lockdown right? If not then it wouldn't work.

[wilisno]

As with any other information, it won’t be long before there’s an oops, someone hacked into the databank and stole all the information !

[Raybo]

As with any other information, it won’t be long before there’s an oops, someone hacked into the databank and stole all the information !

I think hackers don't do much with the data apart from selling it....the buyers are who we should be more concerned with.

[Chocolite]

That's very worrying indeed if it's hacked. And with the speed of deployment, it's very likely there are security holes here and there.

[trampslikeus55]

Bigger question is if businesses are able to operate then they would need to comply too. So if a shop reopens the girls will need phones with the app. Then you will possibly have police doing app compliance raids instead of immigration
You probably found the Trojan horse. If the shop or the girl is required to use the app then we definitely have a new meaning for group sex. Imagine one of the most popular girls. Two weeks to incubate we could of anything from 60 to a 150 punters in the loop. This may still end badly 🤣🤣

[rooter]

Well at least in Australia it is voluntary so nobody will be forced to join it.
That's the beauty of living in a liberal democracy, and why Australia is such a great country.
Many countries in the world don't have such choices or freedom.

[Climax598]

Well at least in Australia it is voluntary so nobody will be forced to join it.
That's the beauty of living in a liberal democracy, and why Australia is such a great country.
Many countries in the world don't have such choices or freedom.
Like you can have legal brothel.

[krnboy]

This is just a way for the government to control us and giving up our freedom.

Call me crazy but I don't believe what the media or government is telling us. The fukn head of WHO isn't a medical doctor and we get advice from him...

We had Iran vs US a few months back now this. Surely it's a distraction

[Climax598]

Why does the head of the WHO need to be a doctor?
WHO = World Health Organisation is to advise on health matter.

[God Member]

I read that the Chines government built a four billion dollar railway in the head of WHO's country Ethiopia. Maybe they were calling in a favour or two. Now Trump has pulled the rug out from under WHO!

[sporty32]

I just saw the app: https://www.tracetogether.gov.sg/

How is my data protected?
https://tracetogether.zendesk.com/hc/en-sg/articles/360043234694-How-is-my-data-protected-

I see it well, and if we all really want to get out of this situation we could collaborate.

[rooter]

Relax guys we live in a liberal democracy. You don't have to subscribe to this ap. You are free!
Be thankful you were born in Australia or immigrated here.
We are the luckiest people in the world!

[rooter]

Scomo said this morning he won't rule out making it compulsory if the take up isn't good.

Yeah, it could happen. Even in liberal democracies we sometimes are forced to give up our freedoms, privacy, rights etc for national security, disease control, counter terrorism etc.
But you would still rather be in a liberal democracy rather than a dictatorship or one party state because at least there are limits on government power, checks and balances, avenues of appeal etc

[smiling wide]

I heard Australia is developing their own version of it. Tracing by suburb. Probably less invasive....

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[Chocolite]

They will tell you it's less invasive, but you wouldn't know what happens in the background

[Strayer Mate]

My concern is that ...just lately ... Singapore isnt quite the poster child anymore .... it's having a steady increase again in Covid cases (as is Japan)

[cuteguy]

Remember the recent controversy about My Health Record? In early 2019, the federal government set up an electronic health record for all your health data including sensitive issues like mental health treatments and other conditions you may have wished to remain private unless you opted out by 31 January 2019. Doctors would be able to access your record to assist in their treatment of you, which could be essential in emergency situations. But security experts warned of possible privacy breaches. As a result, many people opted out of this electronic health record.

[Climax598]

Apple, Google, Facebook all your chat sites track you so what's the big deal?
Your mobile phone company also can track you.

[Climax598]

I have friends in Singapore using it but deleted after a week due to phone battery draining issues.

[krnboy]

I heard it will be standard feature on next phone updates

Better buy a Nokia 5110 and use that instead of smartphones for my next one

[Chocolite]

I heard it will be built in in the firmware even on dumbphones

[Climax598]

So? you don't need to be a doctor to be head of the WHO.
Just like you don't need to be a programmer to be in senior management at Facebook or Apple
or somebody of any experience to be PM of Australia...
So when you are sick(covid-19) who do you see and give you medicine. I know wl/ml right.

[Raybo]

Yes they can track your phone as it is today whether your phone is turned on or off

21 million mobile devices haven't been seen on the respective networks in China after the outbreak.

[nostromo]

Yes they can track your phone as it is today whether your phone is turned on or off

Oh yeah, care to explain how an entity that is not a sophisticated intelligence agency can track a non-targeted handset when it is powered down?

[liminal]

Just because they don't show up on the network doesn't mean they can't be tracked

Hahah

Ouch I just pulled another pube

[cuteguy]

Our former deputy PM Barnaby Joyce advised Australians not to install it because the government couldn't be trusted with our personal information. That's coming from someone who is in Parliament and who had an extra marital affair with a parliamentary staff member.

[Effindahead]

Don't put your life on the hand of clowns..they'd throw it all the way..

[N3ur071c]

Been hearing about this on the news but not sure; has it been implemented or still in early stages etc?

[cplurt2]

Tracing our movements has to be paid by someone. It's never for free and it's always for a benefit. If you turn off Bluetooth the key exchange between phones could still happen via mobile network or wifi. The scary part is when 5g is live the data exchanges will be huge

[wilisno]

Repeating your claim doesn't increase its truth. How? How does some one, anyone, track a powered down handset? Can you provide single example of it happening? Tell me how. Give me an example of it happening.

Tracking a powered on handset to a reasonable degree of accuracy is not easy and is often not possible in any practical sense.
Think again !

https://techpp.com/2013/08/22/track-phone-turned-off/amp/

Although it’s not easy, but it’s possible.

[Climax598]

Think again !

https://techpp.com/2013/08/22/track-phone-turned-off/amp/

Although it’s not easy, but it’s possible.
Turn it off take SIM card off the phone and use a few lay of aluminum foil to cover the phone. That might do it. I think that's what Snowdon did.

[poida]

edward snowden advocated using phones with removable batteries, makes it impossible to track. tracking is more possible with the latest phones, batteries are glued in and cases are water tight.

[wilisno]

Turn it off take SIM card off the phone and use a few lay of aluminum foil to cover the phone. That might do it. I think that's what Snowdon did.

If you take off the SIM card, that means you’re not using the phone, then why bother ? Don’t need to do anything, just leave it at home !

Take a second phone without the app to go out.

[Sabotage]

I’m open to using a tracing app if I can get more information on how it really works.

I want to know if I have been around someone with Covid-19.

I see it as a cost v benefit analysis. Probably more to gain than to lose if I download the app. We all have the choice.

Problem I see is the people not doing the right thing with social distancing and hygiene, are the people who definitely won’t download the app. They don’t give a shit.

[cuteguy]

The app is being launched today. The government had stated that only government health authorities can access your details and no one else.

[Utamaro]

I have downloaded. I would like to know if I have been exposed to covid. Anyone else downloaded?

I have installed too. Apparently it won't record your location (of course your location can be found other ways but not from this App). I have read FAQs and looks like your privacy is well-protected (If they are telling us truth!).

I rather want to end this restrictions sooner rather than later so happy to assist the government in this occasion.

[God Member]

The more people that download it the quicker they can put out virus spot fires and the sooner we can go back to normal life.

If the goverment made it mandatory they could probably stamp out the virus in three weeks.

They are making everything else mandatory so why not the quickest and cheapest way out of this mess?

[God Member]

The shops won't open until the virus is stamped out.

When the virus is stamped out then they are going to delete the app.

Ergo, it is impossible to be in a shop with an active app.

[Climax598]

For the app to work, its important for punters to use the app when punting, so if they catch something from some shop, the govt can contact everyone who went to that shop and inform them to get tested.
Only if WL/ML use it with both Bluetooth on.

[Raybo]

installed. If it is going to help things get back to normal. No one really cares about my activities, I am just an average Joe blow but it would be good for authorities to know if I come into contact by chance, like winning lotto chance...

[Kowabunga]

Seems to work like this:
The app records phone numbers of nearby phones if your close for a period of say 15mins.
Does not record location.
The data is encrypted and stored on your phone only.
The data is deleted after 21 days, so you won't have details older then 21 days.
If you test positive, then data is uploaded by health authority and contract trace can be done via unencrypting phone number(s) and sending message as alert.
I'm in.
I think it will help us all.

[rooter]

Seems like there are enough safeguards built into the way the app works and the way data is stored, used, and deleted.

[smiling wide]

Looks good. Read all the privacy policy section. It really tries to drive the point home that no location data is collected and is based on Bluetooth strength between your phone and others around you. It does drain your battery faster. Mine is at 1% every 10mins so far, but I guess they will say that since you are at home, you can keep it on charge

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[halfway]

Installed it last night and not worried at all about the data collection.

Apple,Facebook,Google already have your data and track every move you make already.

[eagerpunter]

You need to allow the app access to your "location" purely because of bluetooth, you geolocation is NOT stored.

You can also use a pseudonym, so it doesn't need to be your real name, they just need to be able to notify you if you've been in contact with someone that tested positive.

Once this is all over, all the data will be wiped.

[BAM]

That's very trusting to believe it'll be wiped

[God Member]

It's not trust, it is legislated it be wiped on penalty of jail.

I don't know about everyone else but I really want things to get back to normal so we can act like humans again. Not much to ask is it.

[Raybo]

It's not trust, it is legislated it be wiped on penalty of jail.

I don't know about everyone else but I really want things to get back to normal so we can act like humans again. Not much to ask is it.

Ditto. Big data out there already knows what time you last went for a shit anyway. On the flip side the government would never be able to live it down if there was a breach so they have a high level of confidence in the technology. I would be interested in the source code when it is released.

I am pretty excited, our least recorded cases for 2 months in NSW......

[AHLUNGOR]

Seems to work like this:
The app records phone numbers of nearby phones if your close for a period of say 15mins.
Does not record location.
The data is encrypted and stored on your phone only.
The data is deleted after 21 days, so you won't have details older then 21 days.
If you test positive, then data is uploaded by health authority and contract trace can be done via unencrypting phone number(s) and sending message as alert.
I'm in.
I think it will help us all.


Thanks Kowabunga,

Just one more point to your comments: After you tested positive and got notified, you still have an option on your Apps to approve or agree to share your data with the Health Department before they can use your data to start tracing. But surely, if you already down loaded the Apps in the first place, you will do the right thing and agree to help, right ?

[Kowabunga]

Thanks Kowabunga,

Just one more point to your comments: After you tested positive and got notified, you still have an option on your Apps to approve or agree to share your data with the Health Department before they can use your data to start tracing. But surely, if you already down loaded the Apps in the first place, you will do the right thing and agree to help, right ?
I think so. I'm in. If you test positive, yes, I think they'll still ask permission before uploading the data. I think they'll still ask where you've been anyway as they do now with contact tracing. The app just makes it quicker and ensure everyone gets notified and no-one is forgotten.
In these stressful times, I think it's ok to have a relaxation therapeutic massage.
Part of the deal too ... is that the police are not allowed access to the data. That's important because they normally get whatever they ask for.

There are so many ways that data is collected all the time:
- transaction at shops or online.
- Google searches, internet searches, Google maps.
- number plate recognition (car parks, air ports, highways)
- blue tooth IDs picked up for monitoring traffic flows (at each intersection), sometimes for crowd monitoring.
- video cameras at shops, hotels, airports, road and traffic, bridges, etc.
Data everywhere.

I think this is a small thing each of us can do which can make a big difference overall.

[holi_day]

Downloaded and installed. The percentage of people participate in this tracking system is one of the measures that government consider lifting the restrictions.

This app doesn't track your location. And you can use a different name if you don't want to use real name. I am not a celebrity so not really care if someone knows who I have been in contact with.

[tpol]

If your Bluetooth of connected to say headphones, does it disconnect and then log the phone of who you are near and then reconnect back to your headphones

[Raybo]

If your Bluetooth of connected to say headphones, does it disconnect and then log the phone of who you are near and then reconnect back to your headphones

Doesn't need to. Bluetooth broadcasts which is why you can see numerous phones and headsets in available devices in public places.

[Raybo]

I am not politically aligned, but I gotta say he looks creepy.

https://chaser.com.au/national/peter-dutton-caught-using-covidsafe-app-to-hook-up-with-local-singles-in-your-area/

[tpol]

Doesn't need to. Bluetooth broadcasts which is why you can see numerous phones and headsets in available devices in public places.

Even if you are already connected to a device?

[Raybo]

Even if you are already connected to a device?

Yeah. It's just paired, but the Bluetooth still broadcasts. Can go 30 metres!

[brotherjim]

Seems to work like this:
The app records phone numbers of nearby phones if your close for a period of say 15mins.
Does not record location.
The data is encrypted and stored on your phone only.
The data is deleted after 21 days, so you won't have details older then 21 days.
If you test positive, then data is uploaded by health authority and contract trace can be done via unencrypting phone number(s) and sending message as alert.
I'm in.
I think it will help us all.

Correct. Though what it is storing on your phone is not the phone number of others but a unique identifier only known by that phone and government. And that data only gets uploaded if you press the upload information button on the app which you only do if you test positive.

That will the tell they health authorities who you have been in contact with and for how long. Not where.

Once

[Kowabunga]

Correct. Though what it is storing on your phone is not the phone number of others but a unique identifier only known by that phone and government. And that data only gets uploaded if you press the upload information button on the app which you only do if you test positive.

That will the tell they health authorities who you have been in contact with and for how long. Not where.

Once
Thanks for the correction. It would record a bluetooth MacID from the nearby phone and that would be how it's identified later.
The Bluetooth MacID is the info that is recorded when a vehicle drives through an intersection for traffic network monitoring.