The referendum, yes or no?

[dotcumdotinyou]

Big NO from me.

This has nothing to do with aboriginal rights, all it does is put a minority of wealthy educated aboriginals on the government payroll with taxpayer funded "study" trips and the most generous super payouts in the world. How's that going to help the poor blackfellas on the outskirts of Alice Springs?

[asiafever]

"Race and skin colour have nothing to do with success. It’s about culture."

You're joking, right? That is the most privileged statement I have read in a while.

You realise that until 1962 First Nations people had absolutely NO say in the running of the country, they weren't even allowed to vote, and it was in 1967 they were Igranted full citizen rights. It was not until 1984 that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were politically equal to other Australians under the Commonwealth Electoral Amendment Act 1983, so the migrants you mentioned that faced "difficulties" were at least recognised as humans with basic human rights like voting, they never had their children stolen out of their homes and sent to complete strangers (a policy that lasted until 1969), up to at least the 1940s Aboriginal men were still being captured and sent to circuses and zoos in Europe and North America, they were excluded from education policies - government schools actually had the right to refuse education to First Nations people until the 70s, again meaning the immigrants you mentioned could walk off a boat and in to a public school and be given an education that was not available to first nations people, that was government policy from 1902. Think about it. It's cultural, or it is a product of our treatment of them that has made us an international laughing stock every time we have the audacity to mention human rights abuses elsewhere?

[thefatness]

I grew up in housing commission, my family came here from war-torn Vietnam in the 80s probably around the same time Aborigines were granted suffrage.

I am privileged in the sense that I was born to a good family. My parents worked hard to provide for me and my siblings. We didn’t have much growing up but we had each other. There was strict discipline in our household with an emphasis on getting a university degree and pursuing a good career.

The way I see it is if my parents came here with nothing in their early 20s, after having their home and businesses taken away by a communist government, but still made something out of their lives then it’s possible for all in a country like Australia. And this isn’t an isolated story. Many of my friends that I grew up with of Vietnamese, Cambodian, Lao and even Iraqi Assyrian backgrounds have similar stories. Which goes to my point that I truly believe it’s a culture thing.

I don’t dispute that the historical treatment of our First Nations people is appaling. But reverse racism isn’t the way to go about it. Malaysia for example were adamant on affirmative action that would benefit the native Malays which is why Singapore exists.
The comparison I was trying to draw is that race based policies creates division which is why I don’t agree with the voice.

Look I’ve stated my arguments in a respectful manner. I know it’s controversial as all political matters are. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to see our indigenous people be successful. We need to be honest with ourselves to get down to the root cause of the problem. Historical injustice is a terrible thing, but it’s no excuse to be a bad parent.

[fud]

I found this here https://www.pc.gov.au/ongoing/indige...ure-report.pdf

Expenditure estimates in 2015-16

In 2015-16, total (Australian Government plus State/Territory governments) direct
expenditure was $556.1 billion.

The total direct expenditure on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians was
estimated to be $33.4 billion (6.0 per cent of the total) comprising:

• $6.0 billion on Indigenous specific expenditure
• $27.4 billion on mainstream expenditure.

The remainder ($522.7 billion) was expenditure on non-Indigenous Australians.

Noel Pearson (YES) spoke at the Press Club address while Warren Mundine (NO) spoke yesterday and Noel had some compelling arguments which I thought were more convincing than Mundine.

Pearson said that rheumatic heart disease kills 2 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people every week yet he looked up Hansard and not once did the Fed MP for the area (28 years holding that post) raised this matter. He hopes a Yes Voice will close the gap.

Also not one square inch of land was lost because of Mabo and Wick.

Also the Parliament has the power to make laws wrt to Aboriginal & TS Islander matters so that's where the detail is, to be decided by Parliament.

Worth watching/listening to both sessions on ABC iView

[GoldfishMan]

In all honesty, it's not right to be comparing migrants with the Aboriginals. Even if you were to compare the most disadvantaged type of immigrants, like refugees from war torn countries, it is not a fair comparison. One is a group of people who could be from any type of "original" situation that were suddenly forced to flee their countries, rich, poor, hardworking , bludgers, etc... it's a mixed bag.

The other is clearly a race that had been "vanquished" as a result of colonialism. They didn't go anywhere, they stayed where they were and had their lands taken away from them.

[johnny]

I found this here https://www.pc.gov.au/ongoing/indige...ure-report.pdf

Expenditure estimates in 2015-16

In 2015-16, total (Australian Government plus State/Territory governments) direct
expenditure was $556.1 billion.

The total direct expenditure on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians was
estimated to be $33.4 billion (6.0 per cent of the total) comprising:

• $6.0 billion on Indigenous specific expenditure
• $27.4 billion on mainstream expenditure.

The remainder ($522.7 billion) was expenditure on non-Indigenous Australians.

Noel Pearson (YES) spoke at the Press Club address while Warren Mundine (NO) spoke yesterday and Noel had some compelling arguments which I thought were more convincing than Mundine.

Pearson said that rheumatic heart disease kills 2 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people every week yet he looked up Hansard and not once did the Fed MP for the area (28 years holding that post) raised this matter. He hopes a Yes Voice will close the gap.

Also not one square inch of land was lost because of Mabo and Wick.

Also the Parliament has the power to make laws wrt to Aboriginal & TS Islander matters so that's where the detail is, to be decided by Parliament.

Worth watching/listening to both sessions on ABC iView

And based on those figures that equates to $44k spent on each Aborigine/Torres Strait Islander and $22k on other Australians.

[thefatness]

They did have their lands taken away. This is something many South East Asian refugees can also relate to when our parents’ birth countries were overtaken by communist governments. Even though I know this is not the fairest comparison, you don’t have the right to call my story as privileged. If you saw how we made ends meet with what we had, you certainly wouldn’t call it privileged.

I respect all opinions on this debate, but I don’t appreciate yes voters labelling no voters as misinformed, ignorant and racist. I have my reasons and they are drawn from my lived experiences. I can assure you that many in the working class suburbs especially those that grew up in areas with a high concentration of housing commission estates have a similar opinion as mine and this is Labor heartland. We faced disadvantage and racism. But a victim mentality will keep you in that disadvantaged state. Perseverance and hard work will lift you out.

[GoldfishMan]

They did have their lands taken away. This is something many South East Asian refugees can also relate to when our parents’ birth countries were overtaken by communist governments. Even though I know this is not the fairest comparison, you don’t have the right to call my story as privileged. If you saw how we made ends meet with what we had, you certainly wouldn’t call it privileged.

I respect all opinions on this debate, but I don’t appreciate yes voters labelling no voters as misinformed, ignorant and racist. I have my reasons and they are drawn from my lived experiences. I can assure you that many in the working class suburbs especially those that grew up in areas with a high concentration of housing commission estates have a similar opinion as mine and this is Labor heartland. We faced disadvantage and racism. But a victim mentality will keep you in that disadvantaged state. Perseverance and hard work will lift you out.

Very well put, bro. Each to their own, after all that's why it's a referendum.

I am somewhat swayed by what has happened in the US. Black people having an easier time getting into college had a side effect of pushing out other minority groups from having a fair shot. It wasn't intentional, but it is a real side effect nonetheless. It boils down to being a battle between minority groups for the limited leeway provided to minority groups in general.

That said, I am not totally convinced either way yet.

[priapus1966]

Yes is the most obvious answer - it's just a bit of recognition and housekeeping and an advisory body only.
But the no vote will definitely win.

This:

Albanese is a patronising bastard on this issue. Dutton is just a bastard.

[Daffy]

This:

Albanese is a patronising bastard on this issue. Dutton is just a bastard.

I’m looking at some of the absolute creatures on the “no” side of the campaign and I have to vote yes.

Peta Credlin, Peter Dutton, John (I sold Commbank for less than it makes in a quarter) Howard and Anthony Mundine.

And now you have Sky News reporters admitting the Coalition are only campaigning for “No” because they want to score political points against Albanese.

[Double_Adapter]

The world and societies have gone nuts. We have transformed Charles Darwin theory on 'Survival of Fittest' into 'Surival of the Weakest'. All these fucked up movements like the voice, pride, cancel culture, feminists, gender diversity, climate change, capital punishment activists, vegans, me too, LGBTQI, gender pronouns, religious sects ad nauseam are changing the natural order of things. They think they are creating a better and safer world but that is far from it, in a few decades time we won't recognise society because it will be all screwed up.

So the weaker and smaller you are, the more power, more control, a greater voice, and more privileges and money you get. It's a joke and it's wrong! If there's ever a WW3, it won't be the fucken small, weak under represented minority groups taking arms and risking their lives for country.

It's fucked!!!...but it is what it is.
Sorry Charles Darwin's for screwing up your theory.

[frisson]

The world and societies have gone nuts. We have transformed Charles Darwin theory on 'Survival of Fittest' into 'Surival of the Weakest'. All these fucked up movements like the voice, pride, cancel culture, feminists, gender diversity, climate change, capital punishment activists, vegans, me too, LGBTQI, gender pronouns, religious sects ad nauseam are changing the natural order of things. They think they are creating a better and safer world but that is far from it, in a few decades time we won't recognise society because it will be all screwed up

Scary and accurate

One of the dirty secrets of the climate control and electric car religion is that there will not be enough rare metals and minerals to produce enough electric vehicles at the scale required internationally at an affordable price

Electric cars replacing internal combustion engines by 2030? It's a big lie

The majority of the climate control lobby can't do basic maths

[Keeping Up]

The RW media understands this referendum is to see if Dutton has any support. They are are pushing the NO as if there’s no tomorrow. If Dutton was to lose this the LNP would be finished as young voters would’ve made the difference. Young voters remember Dutton’s cruelty towards the zero risk Sri Lankan family. It’s basically turned into an election. The RW media has lost everything lately so this will be an interesting watch.

[Ayrifik]

The world and societies have gone nuts. We have transformed Charles Darwin theory on 'Survival of Fittest' into 'Surival of the Weakest'. All these fucked up movements like the voice, pride, cancel culture, feminists, gender diversity, climate change, capital punishment activists, vegans, me too, LGBTQI, gender pronouns, religious sects ad nauseam are changing the natural order of things. They think they are creating a better and safer world but that is far from it, in a few decades time we won't recognise society because it will be all screwed up.

So the weaker and smaller you are, the more power, more control, a greater voice, and more privileges and money you get. It's a joke and it's wrong! If there's ever a WW3, it won't be the fucken small, weak under represented minority groups taking arms and risking their lives for country.

It's fucked!!!...but it is what it is.
Sorry Charles Darwin's for screwing up your theory.

The faggots and petrol sniffers want to run this country ….. into the fucking ground. And they will

[ReginaldBubbles]

The world and societies have gone nuts. We have transformed Charles Darwin theory on 'Survival of Fittest' into 'Surival of the Weakest'. All these fucked up movements like the voice, pride, cancel culture, feminists, gender diversity, climate change, capital punishment activists, vegans, me too, LGBTQI, gender pronouns, religious sects ad nauseam are changing the natural order of things. They think they are creating a better and safer world but that is far from it, in a few decades time we won't recognise society because it will be all screwed up.

So the weaker and smaller you are, the more power, more control, a greater voice, and more privileges and money you get. It's a joke and it's wrong! If there's ever a WW3, it won't be the fucken small, weak under represented minority groups taking arms and risking their lives for country.

It's fucked!!!...but it is what it is.
Sorry Charles Darwin's for screwing up your theory.

Do you seriously think that those categories you list have more power than the average middle aged white man?

[frisson]

Do you seriously think that those categories you list have more power than the average middle aged white man?

Yes. The term White privilege has mocked the opinion of a broad range of male citizens

Why do you think the NO campaign have preferred not having white men at the forefront of their campaign?

Social media and the woke virus has given false legitimacy to keyboard warriors and virtue signallers

[fted]

The RW media understands this referendum is to see if Dutton has any support. They are are pushing the NO as if there’s no tomorrow. If Dutton was to lose this the LNP would be finished as young voters would’ve made the difference. Young voters remember Dutton’s cruelty towards the zero risk Sri Lankan family. It’s basically turned into an election. The RW media has lost everything lately so this will be an interesting watch.

Totally. Dutton really does have ‘all the empathy of a rock’ and this is just to show he has support for the next election.

[ReginaldBubbles]

Yes. The term White privilege has mocked the opinion of a broad range of male citizens

Why do you think the NO campaign have preferred not having white men at the forefront of their campaign?

Social media and the woke virus has given false legitimacy to keyboard warriors and virtue signallers

Why would white men be at the forefront of a campaign about Aboriginal issues? Wow, if you really feel oppressed as a white man you need to look elsewhere for your oppressor.

[bung72]

I'm a hard no. Legislate it if you must, as long as other similar bodies are folded up to not duplicate funding. Not in the constitution thanks.

[Assandlegs]

I assume this is a fun and safe question to ask here

And this is where you fucked up...

There's no such thing as a serious debate/conversation on this forum unless it involves sex. Just read some of the answers and there's far too much "I reckon.." and almost zero facts...

Of course I will vote yes because it's the right thing to do... but this should only be the start.

As for Dutton lovers out there, the fact that he supports no is the biggest indication that it's the right thing to do.

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