Building a sugar dating website. What do you guys think?

[xboyx]

Fellow punters

No kidding, I'm looking to build a sugar dating website to connect men with young girls.

Punting at shops is fun, but dating then sex is always better. There are existing sites in the market, I know.

Building the site is not difficult, it's a simple 2-sided marketplace with supply (the girls) and demand (the men), with profile, photos and messaging. I've previously built a 2-sided marketplace in another industry hence we've had all the codes we can reuse to kickstart another one. Part reason I'm looking at this is because that business failed which put me in a worse financial situation hence I'm exploring other ideas.

The challenge is acquiring users, in this case, getting the girls to join and retaining them. The girls are typically in their 20s which means they don't use emails as much, and asking them for phone number is even harder given that sugar dating needs discreetness.

1 - Are you loyal to existing sugar dating sites? or are you willing to try out a new one?
2 - What problems do you have with the existing sites?
3 - What are your opinions on a new sugar dating site?
4 - Like other sites, male members need to upgrade to a monthly subscription to contact female members. There will be a limited number of FREE upgrades for early male users who are willing to test drive our site.

What are your thoughts?

[charmingninjaman]

I'm in tech and Saas so have some understanding of the industry. And I've also used a number of these sites.
The main issue is these sites always start out pretty good, but then get flooded with bots and fake profiles - and the websites don't police them because it's profitable for them to allow it to go on.

Generally, for websites as well as apps - the BIGGEST expense is NOT the app or website itself. It's the Marketing expense.
I can get my guys to put up a fully functioning site within a week or two. But without spending big $$$ on marketing - you got zero chance of it working out.

[xboyx]

I'm in tech and Saas so have some understanding of the industry. And I've also used a number of these sites.
The main issue is these sites always start out pretty good, but then get flooded with bots and fake profiles - and the websites don't police them because it's profitable for them to allow it to go on.

Generally, for websites as well as apps - the BIGGEST expense is NOT the app or website itself. It's the Marketing expense.
I can get my guys to put up a fully functioning site within a week or two. But without spending big $$$ on marketing - you got zero chance of it working out.

hahah fellow tech

yea building this site is technically not difficult, it's the marketing that is hard, and of course the industry is filled with scams and bots which is another problem.

do you want to try out if I build my site?

[Vincent888]

Most large adult sites can have a hundred bots or so crawling through them. Nothing new there.

You need babes with an online following to push the site and even chat on it. Plus an agency to run your campaign.

There’s the cart and there’s the horse.

Which is coming first?

[xboyx]

Most large adult sites can have a hundred bots or so crawling through them. Nothing new there.

You need babes with an online following to push the site and even chat on it. Plus an agency to run your campaign.

There’s the cart and there’s the horse.

Which is coming first?

thanks for the reply.

with supply and demand, from my last experience, I know I need to focus on getting the harder side to join first. In this case, it's getting the girls to join our site. Generally, on any dating sites, if you manage to get the girls to join, the men will follow (don't we LOL).
Similar to brothels and massage shops, the ones with the most girls generally will attract punters

regarding a campaign with agency:
I know Google ads, FB ads, SEO very well myself. Semi-pro level. However, it is a bad idea to start advertising in the early stage. Ads are very expensive and not suitable to kickstart the flywheel.

I have some ideas on how to get the girls' attention to join. In my last marketplace, I paid thousands of dollars to Google, Facebook Ads, which were a waste of money. Then I decided that I'd need to acquire 1000s of users for FREE. With that mindset, I figured it out and managed to acquire users for free, without a dollar on ad.

Hence, I'm asking on this forum to see if any of us here are willing to test drive our site if I manage to recruit the girls to our site. I'll hand-recruit the girls to join and manually review their accounts to prevent the bots and scammers.

Willing to try our site out Vincent if it's built?

[Footballpunter]

Interesting idea and I like how you are putting actions into your idea. Coming from the consultant side of things, here are some general questions I have.

How are you going to differential your site from dozens of other competing sites? Look at Christian Mingles for example, it's positioning itself as dating with faith. It might be bullshit, but it stands out. Do you have a strategy like that?

Which segment of the market are you really going after? General dating? Hook ups only? Finding WLs?

Will there be a payment processing capabilities? What about for the same between users? Can you let's say, take a "secured deposit" for a sugar babe as a trusted third party? Any legal risk/financial risk for offering this?

User data privacy is a major issue and it's more of an issue with dating site, how are you going to gain the trust of new users as a new player on the block? Think about what happen to ashley madison.

Is there an AI play in this? This is the hot topic for a lot of our own clients, people want to know how to use AI to increase productivity for their own business. It's also good for marketing, say we don't match you, but our AI does.

Just some random quick thoughts. Cheers.

[Vincent888]

I started and ran an adult site.

Did that for 8 years 24/7.

If anything I’d build or buy a brothel.

That’s where I’m at.

Good luck though.

[xboyx]

I started and ran an adult site.

Did that for 8 years 24/7.

If anything I’d build or buy a brothel.

That’s where I’m at.

Good luck though.

thanks for your input. if the site goes live and you're interested, feel free to try out

surprised to hear that you ran an adult site for 8 years, it is a tough space to enter

[xboyx]

Interesting idea and I like how you are putting actions into your idea. Coming from the consultant side of things, here are some general questions I have.

How are you going to differential your site from dozens of other competing sites? Look at Christian Mingles for example, it's positioning itself as dating with faith. It might be bullshit, but it stands out. Do you have a strategy like that?

Which segment of the market are you really going after? General dating? Hook ups only? Finding WLs?

Will there be a payment processing capabilities? What about for the same between users? Can you let's say, take a "secured deposit" for a sugar babe as a trusted third party? Any legal risk/financial risk for offering this?

User data privacy is a major issue and it's more of an issue with dating site, how are you going to gain the trust of new users as a new player on the block? Think about what happen to ashley madison.

Is there an AI play in this? This is the hot topic for a lot of our own clients, people want to know how to use AI to increase productivity for their own business. It's also good for marketing, say we don't match you, but our AI does.

Just some random quick thoughts. Cheers.

many thanks for your opinions.

generally as a new player, yes I should be thinking about our Unique Selling Point (USP) to differentiate ourselves from existing ones. I did research on market share of other sugar dating sites in Australia to see who's dominating. Of course we all know Seeking, SDM, etc. However I could not find any statistics on their market share in Australia.

In books about startups, if an industry is dominated by 1 or 2 players (eg Google, Microsoft), then you'll have to enter as a niche player, differentiate yourself from them as it's impossible to compete with them head on.

If the market share is scattered, no 1 or 2 players are dominating the market, then I think I can have a crack at it. eg Look at electricians, cleaners, or brothels, massage parlours. They aren't much different from each other. New players can come in anytime and compete because no 1 or 2 are dominating the market.

I could not find out how much of market share Seeking, SDM, and other sites have so I could not conclude that they are dominating Australian market. And, also from my experience in punting, if I manage to get many beautiful girls in, then I'll have a chance.

My assumption is that we men will follow where young beautiful girls go. I could be wrong. But if I'm wrong and this site fails, I wouldn't have much to lose as it doesn't take us much time and lots of $ to build the site. And my budget on marketing and advertising is $0. I'll find "creative" ways to recruit girls at no cost.

Regarding segment of market: I'm hoping to find girls who are not asking too much for $$ but this is difficult because I can't just blatantly tell them that you should not ask for $X. Also because I want to use my own product LOL. I'm not fixed on any set of segments or business models yet because it's most likely that our business model and ideas will morph over time. My last startup launched and morphed many times after we learned what our users liked/disliked or used/ did not use. (we call it "agile" LOL)

Payment processing: we won't handle as middlemen for payment. Just a simple monthly subscription like other sites as we don't want to innovate on payments. Also, Airbnb did not handle payment for many years. In my last marketplace business, we built out a bunch of payment escrow system that no one used. I've learned that building escrow payment system early is not necessary.

Privacy is important: we plan to have some basic privacy features (eg private photos) that are easy to build.

AI: no plan for AI at the moment.

[Vincent888]

thanks for your input. if the site goes live and you're interested, feel free to try out

surprised to hear that you ran an adult site for 8 years, it is a tough space to enter

I still have the company. It was actually started sixteen years ago. A lot of time went into the design and getting the templates correct. The terms and conditions, agreements. The mobile connectvity, the gateway for high speed data. The server site. The staff.

I say monitoring it 24/7 because you never know what people could upload or write. So I was always online somewhere. Watching customers and staff.

Every customer has a profile. Everything they say or upload is stored. It has to be. Sometimes they’re blocked and sometimes reported.

Probably it contributed to my bad sleep patterns.

Anyway you’ll get the experience.

[JSteel96]

thanks for the reply.
I'll hand-recruit the girls to join and manually review their accounts to prevent the bots and scammers.

Does this mean you'll sleep with each girl to test their skills before they join the site? If so make sure they give good bjs.

[xboyx]

I still have the company. It was actually started sixteen years ago. A lot of time went into the design and getting the templates correct. The terms and conditions, agreements. The mobile connectvity, the gateway for high speed data. The server site. The staff.

I say monitoring it 24/7 because you never know what people could upload or write. So I was always online somewhere. Watching customers and staff.

Every customer has a profile. Everything they say or upload is stored. It has to be. Sometimes they’re blocked and sometimes reported.

Probably it contributed to my bad sleep patterns.

Anyway you’ll get the experience.

yea I know the headache. I've run my own business before and had to deal with customers at midnight.

For websites, handling customer support is important cuz it's 24 hour operation. Bad users will come and do silly things, same issue happened to my last website that I had to constantly watch out for scammers. I'm prepared to provide support to our users.

[xboyx]

Does this mean you'll sleep with each girl to test their skills before they join the site? If so make sure they give good bjs.

hahah no man, I wish I could.

Many of these girls will be in their 20s exposing themselves to older men. So naturally they'd feel unsafe. Hence it's important that we'll need to give them a good level of support and one that they could talk to to make them feel it's legit. The goal is to help those girls reach their financial goals faster and doing so safely and easily.

[andrewv]

I can give you some valuable advice, based on a lot of experience in launching this sort of website -- not only dating/sugaring.

Customer acquisition (getting members) is the most expensive issue you will face. It is not the cost of building the site or the elegant design.

Make sure when you launch it, you limit it to one or two cities only. For example, Sydney and Melbourne. This is because there is no value in having 50 girls in Chicago and 50 men in Sydney and no real opportunity to connect with each other. Start small and focused.

The biggest challenge is getting members in large numbers very quickly.

The other issue is you will have to expect to offer the site for free for at least 12 months, so you need to have cash to live on while your membership grows.

As a startup, your competition will NOT be the need to compete with existing sites but to compete for attention of girls and men to join.

Then you have to think about why should any man join when seeking dot com already has thousands of girls. I think the main objection men have to seeking dot com is the cost where they charge around $120 USD per month and usually run promotions giving 25% discount. I guess if I were you, I would compete on price (say charge only $39 per month) because they are already killing you before you even start by having thousands of girls.

Good luck.

[JSteel96]

hahah no man, I wish I could.

Many of these girls will be in their 20s exposing themselves to older men. So naturally they'd feel unsafe. Hence it's important that we'll need to give them a good level of support and one that they could talk to to make them feel it's legit. The goal is to help those girls reach their financial goals faster and doing so safely and easily.

You have to screen which ever man joins the site, because you could get a bad dude who attacks some of the girls. Then the shit will hit the fan if any assault happens. I think policing your members will be tough. How are you going to make sure each male joining has enough income to be a real sugar daddy.

[JSteel96]

Then you have to think about why should any man join when seeking dot com already has thousands of girls. I think the main objection men have to seeking dot com is the cost where they charge around $120 USD per month and usually run promotions giving 25% discount. I guess if I were you, I would compete on price (say charge only $39 per month) because they are already killing you before you even start by having thousands of girls.

Good luck.

This is true as there is so many girls already available so why would a guy need a paid website? Who is going to pay a reoccurring monthly fee just to access girls when many sites are free? And they could just as easy go to the shops to spend their dollars. Or brothels.

[xboyx]

I can give you some valuable advice, based on a lot of experience in launching this sort of website -- not only dating/sugaring.

Customer acquisition (getting members) is the most expensive issue you will face. It is not the cost of building the site or the elegant design.

Make sure when you launch it, you limit it to one or two cities only. For example, Sydney and Melbourne. This is because there is no value in having 50 girls in Chicago and 50 men in Sydney and no real opportunity to connect with each other. Start small and focused.

The biggest challenge is getting members in large numbers very quickly.

The other issue is you will have to expect to offer the site for free for at least 12 months, so you need to have cash to live on while your membership grows.

As a startup, your competition will NOT be the need to compete with existing sites but to compete for attention of girls and men to join.

Then you have to think about why should any man join when seeking dot com already has thousands of girls. I think the main objection men have to seeking dot com is the cost where they charge around $120 USD per month and usually run promotions giving 25% discount. I guess if I were you, I would compete on price (say charge only $39 per month) because they are already killing you before you even start by having thousands of girls.

Good luck.

absolutely I agree. I feel like we're coming from the same thoughts, I've read lots about startups, entrepreneurs, Y Combinators, marketplaces etc.

Yea as recommended in Lenny's Newsletters, to kickstart a marketplace, I'll focus on a small region first, it'll be Sydney only cuz that's where I'm in. I'll find ways to recruit a smaller number of users first then make sure they're well looked after and happy.

And yes first users will have it for free, or much discounted rate because they take the leap of faith in us.

And yes, startups don't die from competition, they die because they suicide and they often crawl to somewhere quiet and slowly disappear into the abyss. Compeition is the least I'd need to worry about. I know because my last startup died, not because of competition, no one tried to kill us, we killed ourselves.

Competing on price is something that I'm unsure of. It's never good to compete on price. Though I plan on not charging as much as seeking, I don't think I'll go as cheap as $39/month cuz this price is suicidal. At $39/month, we'll die slowly after years of hope and effort.

[Vincent888]

Why a dating site?

What’s the appeal? Pussy?

Why not a competitor to Carsales?

They have pretty much monopolised the market and make a fortune.

[frisson]

I have no experience to guide you, but a niche sugar dating site will be challenging to maintain
It would presumably have to get good word of mouth for women to join and get traction

Is it a large group of women who want this service in Sydney? Are you talking about an App?

An attractive woman can join any established dating website today, and within 24 hours can have 100 men contacting her. They can join Tinder, and with decent authentic photos, similarly command great attention That's fact ​

[xboyx]

This is true as there is so many girls already available so why would a guy need a paid website? Who is going to pay a reoccurring monthly fee just to access girls when many sites are free? And they could just as easy go to the shops to spend their dollars. Or brothels.

Are you sure there are free sites for sugar dating? I'm not aware of any good sites that are free to find sugar babies.