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Thread: Raids, inspections - what, what and how.

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    Raids, inspections - what, what and how.

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    Last edited by Forward Must Hang; 05-09-2021 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Deal with it

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    Thank you kind sir.
    Your previous service to the community continues in your retirement from your work. Can we copy and paste this or bump this thread, into any subsequent thread about raids, to quieten the masses?

    Among the many lessons I take away; you arent doing anything wrong if you are dealing with a legally aged woman, dont bring in any ID, (I dont want to be on any police record), and give a different name, if you have done nothing wrong
    To protect the massage shop, dont expect massage shops to have condoms

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    99 Premium Member (特級會員) rooter's Avatar
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    Excellent info.
    Very accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rooter View Post
    Excellent info.
    Very accurate.
    Pretty much what you were saying Rooter

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    Last edited by Forward Must Hang; 05-09-2021 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Doesn't belong here

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    Lets face it, the risk of you meeting a Policeman in a parlour is probably 1000:1, and you are breaking no law as long as you are not dealing with a minor, its all good

    Our main goal as punters is not to get our local nassage shop in trouble. Dont expect them to provide condoms or any other services, as officially as we all know, management dont authorise extra services. Remove any things you bring in with you.

    Massage ladies often lock the doors for privacy reasons. Many massage shops have locked doors, this is perfectly legal, so I recommend when you get a massage, ask the masseuse to lock your door with all sessions.

    After all, clients get massages in their underwear, or less. I know my sister gets her gear right off, she loves massages. She does not want a male manager of the shop, nor a man in uniform, barging in, thank you.

    I certainly reserve the right to not be disturbed. Just the same if the GP is performing a routine check with all my clothes off, checking for skin cancer, I expect the door to be secured. I dont want someone just walking into the wrong room, and this does happen. Imagine a grandma walking in the wrong room while your GP is examining your unclothed body

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    Thanks bros FMH (and for your service as well), Murphy, Rooter and others!
    Truly informative.
    Highly appreciated!

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    Im only recommending punters keep safe and provide themselves with the privacy they are entitled to. I wont expect any massage parlour to have condoms, as this service is not permitted, but I always carry one in my wallet because I go to brothels, again if it falls out or is used I will always pick it up and take it home. It doesnt belong in a nassage shop. No laws are being broken, and I dont want any massage shop to get into trouble.

    And if I dont have ID and the Police are asking for my details, I will first ask why they need my details, and the circumstances of the visit. I will calmly say I have never been in the shop before, I have been in the premises for less than 1 hour in my life, and that I have very little to offer. Happy to provide them my details if they insist, as I have not broken any laws. I literally dont appear in the white pages, I have a new address, and they can have my punting phone number

    Nothing wrong with having prolapsed lumbosacral discs in your back, that need regular physio and massage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Must Hang View Post
    Following on from the "Hornsby shop getting raided" thread and several other threads that pop up about raids, I'd thought I'd provide some facts about raids and inspections.

    Councils

    Brothels require approval from Council and can only operate in certain areas - some Council's don't even allow them in commercial areas but some do. Massage (i.e. legit remedial) doesn't need approval, it's a commercial use of a commercial shop (unless they do acupuncture which is skin penetration then it needs health licenses).

    A lot of "massage" shops set up as massage but do RnT. Any sexual service makes it a brothel so "massage" shops can't do RnT unless they are approved as a brothel by the Council. That's why Council's employ Private Investigators - to get evidence of the "deed being done" because circumstantial evidence such as suggestive ads may not be enough for a prosecution.

    Council's may look into that issue if they get complaints or the shop is advertising more than just massage. Normally Council won't care because they have better things to worry about and besides, massage shops operate fairly discreetly and the average passer by wouldn't know or care. Council health inspectors inspect approved premises to make sure condoms are being disposed of properly, the water used for washing towels and sheets is over a certain temperature etc.

    Offences of planning and health are civil offences, not criminal. Council's don't need a search warrant to enter - they have powers of entry to a premises under various laws.

    Immigration

    Immigration attend on the lookout for visa breaches, illegal immigrants etc. Pretty narrow scope. Immigration offences are criminal offences so they need a warrant to enter.

    Police

    Cops don't raid premises over breaches of approval, or unauthorised development. Cops only care about whether there is a criminal law being broken (Council laws are civil laws, not criminal). So, cops look for underaged workers, drugs being sold etc.

    Sometimes, cops, Council and immigration will do joint inspections.
    I read that unscrupulous massage operators dob in their successful competitors, just to get them in trouble. Can you tell us if this is true, and how this works?
    We discussed undercover Council inspectors. But councils can also have overt operatives with or without Police?
    If so, then we all should definitely lock our doors during massage, and all rooms should have tampon disposal units in each room, to throw away any litter
    I hate the thought that complaints to council are frivilous actions initiated by less successful businesses who offer the community an inferior service or less skilled ML. I want our best massage shops to succeed, without being hampered by crap competitors.
    Your underlining technique is clever, I will use it too now and then

    Objective
    Lets all protect our local massage shop from getting in trouble, in anyway we can

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    Quote Originally Posted by murphy View Post
    I read that unscrupulous massage operators dob in their successful competitors, just to get them in trouble. Can you tell us if this is true, and how this works?
    We discussed undercover Council inspectors. But councils can also have overt operatives with or without Police?
    If so, then we all should definitely lock our doors during massage, and all rooms should have tampon disposal units in each room, to throw away any litter
    I hate the thought that complaints to council are frivilous actions initiated by less successful businesses who offer the community an inferior service or less skilled ML. I want our best massage shops to succeed, without being hampered by crap competitors.
    Your underlining technique is clever, I will use it too now and then

    Objective
    Lets all protect our local massage shop from getting in trouble, in anyway we can
    I think this is moving away from the OP intention

    To provide clear information on the various roles of those involved in a raid

    Council

    Police

    Immigration

    and what issues if any for a punter.

    so for this to be useful best it not become something else . I think our resident man on the beat , started another thread where you can ask general Q’s

    ... do people TETTLE TALE 🙄 what do you think

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    Massage shops DO need council approval in the form of a DA. This approval will stipulate what alterations can be made to the premises, what facilties must be provided, what services can be provided, maximum staff and customers at any one time, hours of opening, what signage is allowed, etc. The DA is open for public scrutiny and can be rejected if there is excessive valid local objection.

    IIRC, police do not need a warrant if they have justifiable suspicions that a crime is being committed at the time of entry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by murphy View Post

    Objective
    Lets all protect our local massage shop from getting in trouble, in anyway we can
    THis includes NOT writing detailed ARs on forums where LE operatives are likely to read them.

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    Last edited by Forward Must Hang; 05-09-2021 at 12:28 AM. Reason: It was good while it lasted

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    Last edited by Forward Must Hang; 05-09-2021 at 12:29 AM. Reason: Too informative.

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    Question. What happens if you have consumed something there and perhaps appear to be visibly affected?

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    ...............
    Last edited by Forward Must Hang; 05-09-2021 at 12:31 AM. Reason: More information that doesn't belong here.

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    This is gold .

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    You forgot to mention that they also have power to keep and search for all electronic devices in the premise and of course take number down for further prosecution

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forward Must Hang View Post
    Lot of "ifs" and "variables" there.

    If it's Council or Immigration - nothing.

    If it's Police, that's different. You're not in a public place, you're on private property. You can be drunk all you want. If you've consumed illicit substances, likely nothing unless you get a bit stroppy in which case you could be arrested for obstructing Police duty. If you're caught with illicit substances on you then you will be arrested for possession. You might have your details taken and be questioned about what you've taken and where you got it from, i.e. did you get it from inside the parlour/brothel.

    There is a grey area around whether a search warrant allows an Officer to search a visitor to the premises - technically it does but there is scope for challenge about reasonable grounds to search a person. I'm not a lawyer and I don't want people thinking they can get away with stuff on a technicality. There are good criminal lawyers and equally good prosecutors who will bat you back and forward with their egos like a cat with a mouse. The best advice I can give people is "you know its against the law, don't take the risk". That's me playing mother hen, frankly I don't care what you do but don't come bitchin' to me when you skin your knees and want a band aid.

    Also, if someone is visibly blotto and the brothel is out in the middle of an industrial area - expect an RBT at each end of the street in about... ooh... 45 seconds.

    Thanks for the reply.

    I was thinking more along the lines of ,

    You are with girl in the room. Girl offers one of other substance say either marijuana or ice.

    Let’s first say marijuana. You smoke joint then. Knock knock knock. Police, search warrant. Open the door NOW. You are of course naked so priority is grabbing a towel to cover yourself. Open door. Room smells of marijuana. There may be some left over on the bedside table... Does this give them reason to arrest you. They smell the drug. You probably have red eyes etc so they can say to a judge that you appeared under the influence. If there is any drug there,even if it belongs to the girl, the police do not know whose it is..

    The same situation for ice. But they find ice pipe and probably a little left over ice.

    Can they arrest you. If so can they force a urine and or blood test?

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    Last edited by Forward Must Hang; 05-09-2021 at 12:31 AM. Reason: Boom

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