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Thread: 278 Club - pay before you see policy

  1. #1
    Baby Member(留言版初哥)
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    Thumbs up 278 Club - pay before you see policy

    I've frequented 278 Cleveland several times and have never had a reason to complain as they've always been courteous. But for some reason, their demeanor changed when I visited their new location at 479 Elizabeth for the first time last Friday.

    I was greeted by a guy at the counter upon arrival and the conversation went something like this...

    479: How long you want to stay?

    Me: x minutes

    479: Ok. That's x dollars

    Me: Ok. Can I see the ladies?

    479: Yes but you need to pay first

    Me: And if I don't like any of the ladies, you'll refund my money?

    479: If I show you more than 10 girls, No. If I show you less than 10, I will charge you $20.

    Me: You're kidding right?

    479: No. If I showed you that many girls and you still don't like any, then you need to pay. I don't want to waste my time

    Me: This never happened before

    479: (smiled) Well the guy before you was told the same thing

    Me: Ok. That's up to you (walked out)

    I've never ever been forced to pay before seeing what I'm getting - even 5 star at their prime weren't this arrogant. I'm a paying customer and deserve to be treated better so personally, I will not return.

    I decided to post this because a) I wanted everyone to know about this policy, and b) I'm curious if anyone has experienced this appalling customer service, either at this establishment or anywhere else? Thanks

  2. #2
    Baby Member(留言版初哥)
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    I agree. I saw this with my own two eyes when I was waiting for my booking. Intimidation and threat do not work here. It will only result in adverse affect.

    From 479 perspective, I can understand their side of the story. When you line up close to 15 girls and if the prospect didn't pick one, you get tired of it. I guess they want to be like Ginza but the girls just don't match Ginza's quality, mostly in the looks department---479 girls service is on par with Ginza.

    I hope 479 can give the benefit of the doubt more to the customers. I wouldn't be happy if I was on the receiving end of that attitude, I'll walk straight out and never come back.

  3. #3
    Super Fans (忠實Fans)
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    They can get away with it I guess and at the end of the day your feet did the talking

  4. #4
    Super Fans (忠實Fans)
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    You probably ended up somewhere else, seeing less quality and quantity line up, for free, and spending more than 20 or 50 extra, receiving less quality service and be a less happy man.

    If I trust the shop, I will just go for the girl I like the most from line up. If I am not happy with service, I find somewhere else next time.

    I don't like the idea of charging customer for seeing line up, but except Ginza, because so far, their line up is second to none in Sydney. If I can't pick, I would call myself a time waster.

    I never time how long does it take to get all the girls, introduce one by one, wait for you to decide,often times, you ask questions etc. There are 10ish girls there, some even half naked.

    I don't believe Ginza sees this as a revenue steam to make money. They would much prefer you are a genuine customer and want a genuine punt. They just need to control time waster and keep girls happy so we all happy.

  5. #5
    Super Fans (忠實Fans)
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    This could all have been avoided by some logistical changes.
    If the girls hang-out room was next to the line-up area, it would be all too easy.
    Contrary to that, girls at 479 have to walk up a flight of staircase on high heels and then walk the line-up.
    Not easy task to do if you have to do it 50 times a day.

    Another idea is a little over the top. They could do something different:

    Install a big-ass TV and play either pre-recorded intros of girls or have/cut to the live feed to the girl's room where they do the line-up there.

  6. #6
    Senior Member(無間使者)
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    If this place has genuine good reviews, then I dont have a problem with this. We should be rewarding brothels that work hard to ensure good service, and that can attract so many staff
    But if the price is $200-300, service is hit and miss, and there is no service quality control or serious attention to customer feedback, if reported poor service is greeted with a shrug of the shoulders by papasan, then a brothel demanding money just for a lineup should be avoided.
    There are a few brothels outside the city, in Southwest, with large lineups of young ladies, but where the service is very inconsistent. So a large lineup doesnt mean the WL cares about service they provide. I used to go to a brothel near Central station, with lineups of 4-6 young WL, but the service was poor. I stopped going after 3 visits as I dont enjoy wasting money

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hhhrjd View Post
    I agree. I saw this with my own two eyes when I was waiting for my booking. Intimidation and threat do not work here. It will only result in adverse affect.

    From 479 perspective, I can understand their side of the story. When you line up close to 15 girls and if the prospect didn't pick one, you get tired of it. I guess they want to be like Ginza but the girls just don't match Ginza's quality, mostly in the looks department---479 girls service is on par with Ginza.

    I hope 479 can give the benefit of the doubt more to the customers. I wouldn't be happy if I was on the receiving end of that attitude, I'll walk straight out and never come back.
    Thanks for the heads up on Ginza - I won't be wasting my time going to that place either if they have the same arrogant policy.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by holi_day View Post
    You probably ended up somewhere else, seeing less quality and quantity line up, for free, and spending more than 20 or 50 extra, receiving less quality service and be a less happy man.

    If I trust the shop, I will just go for the girl I like the most from line up. If I am not happy with service, I find somewhere else next time.

    I don't like the idea of charging customer for seeing line up, but except Ginza, because so far, their line up is second to none in Sydney. If I can't pick, I would call myself a time waster.

    I never time how long does it take to get all the girls, introduce one by one, wait for you to decide,often times, you ask questions etc. There are 10ish girls there, some even half naked.

    I don't believe Ginza sees this as a revenue steam to make money. They would much prefer you are a genuine customer and want a genuine punt. They just need to control time waster and keep girls happy so we all happy.
    I don't think anyone goes to these places to waste time - at least not the majority. In my case, I had to drive and find parking which took close to 40 mins, door to door. If the establishment can't be bothered to show the line up, then they've wasted my time and I take offence to that. This isn't common practice so 479 should publish this policy to avoid surprising their customers and leaving them bemused, like I was.

    As to genuine customer or not, I wouldn't have mind if they asked me to pay first (to show that I do have the funds) and refund if I don't go ahead with the transaction. But locking me in before seeing what's on offer is absolutely a no deal for me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by yug View Post
    This could all have been avoided by some logistical changes.
    If the girls hang-out room was next to the line-up area, it would be all too easy.
    Contrary to that, girls at 479 have to walk up a flight of staircase on high heels and then walk the line-up.
    Not easy task to do if you have to do it 50 times a day.

    Another idea is a little over the top. They could do something different:

    Install a big-ass TV and play either pre-recorded intros of girls or have/cut to the live feed to the girl's room where they do the line-up there.
    Let's face it, owning a brothel doesn't give one a license to print money. They still need to run the business and overcome logistical challenges. Maybe they should hire you as a consultant ;-)

  10. #10
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    Maybe report to trade practice. Ask them to iinvestigate. It will be interesting if the investigator is woman. Or boycott then how do we get our dick suck so is hard. This topic keep On Coming up. Business must be good with not much competition

  11. #11
    Senior Member(無間使者) 23_'s Avatar
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    Thanks for the insight OP.

    It is definitely an eye opener that a prestigous establishment like 479 puts this into practice. I suspect they implement this scheme to reduce the number of time wasters/trolls. Personally, i frequent their primary establishment at 310 and always pre-book - never had any issues. The staff over there have always treated me very well.

  12. #12
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    I dont believe any industry has a policy where you pay before being able to look at what you will buy.

    They may have guards outside who only let a certain number of people in to more prestigious shops, or if you look like a bum they wont let you in at all, but a fee before you can even look?

    Unheard of.

    I dont condone this practice at all, EVEN IF I do understand trying to control timewasters.

    But realistically speaking, how is it "wasting time" to look at a lineup but honestly decide that no girl there is really your type? They might have the more average looking ladies on rotation and you might just not be into it. To get smacked for 20 just because nothing suits your personal taste is really an insult.

    Besides, whos time is really being wasted? Are the girls solving quantum physics to allow space hyperflight in the back there, and getting interrupted to come out is such a hindrance that the annoyance gets transacted to the punters?

    I dont get it. I also didnt get the logic that if he showed MORE girls its free. If he showed you less and you didnt pick its gonna cost you.

    Huh?

    Honestly the only time i have seen anything which was looking like time wasting was early punting days, I was at Kyoto 206 (i think), and a bunch of indian guys kept coming in, requesting a lineup, then leaving, then coming back and asking for a lineup again. In the end the papasan just didnt let them in. Now THAT I can see as time wasting. I swear they came in to get a mental picture then had a self spank somewhere and came back for more material.

    I have always wanted to try Ginzas shops, because they seem highly reviewed, but this is putting a a few holes in my perception of them.

  13. #13
    Super Fans (忠實Fans)
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    A Touch Of Class does the same thing they charge $50

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by F0x View Post
    I dont believe any industry has a policy where you pay before being able to look at what you will buy.

    They may have guards outside who only let a certain number of people in to more prestigious shops, or if you look like a bum they wont let you in at all, but a fee before you can even look?

    Unheard of.

    I dont condone this practice at all, EVEN IF I do understand trying to control timewasters.

    But realistically speaking, how is it "wasting time" to look at a lineup but honestly decide that no girl there is really your type? They might have the more average looking ladies on rotation and you might just not be into it. To get smacked for 20 just because nothing suits your personal taste is really an insult.

    Besides, whos time is really being wasted? Are the girls solving quantum physics to allow space hyperflight in the back there, and getting interrupted to come out is such a hindrance that the annoyance gets transacted to the punters?

    I dont get it. I also didnt get the logic that if he showed MORE girls its free. If he showed you less and you didnt pick its gonna cost you.

    Huh?

    Honestly the only time i have seen anything which was looking like time wasting was early punting days, I was at Kyoto 206 (i think), and a bunch of indian guys kept coming in, requesting a lineup, then leaving, then coming back and asking for a lineup again. In the end the papasan just didnt let them in. Now THAT I can see as time wasting. I swear they came in to get a mental picture then had a self spank somewhere and came back for more material.

    I have always wanted to try Ginzas shops, because they seem highly reviewed, but this is putting a a few holes in my perception of them.
    completely agree. and when the shop say "because i have showed you 20 very popular girls" popular or not that means nothing. we have the right to have different taste from others. also maybe the yes there are very attractive girls on the lineup but she doesnt smile (probably because the customers are not her type and she has enough booking that day) then what? should we still take that girl? of course no. it is our money not the papasan money.
    also remember we are dealing with human which are unique not just some stuffs. if a shop selling iphones, and customer come to ask can i see all the iphones and then walk away says i dont like them, yes they are time waster (because iphone is the same everywhere in the world). get my point?

    plus, if the customer wears bikies jacket full tattoo 195cm height 100kg weight, i dont think they will enforce that pay policy lol....

  15. #15
    Loyalty Member(超級無聊鬼) Pussyhands's Avatar
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    There are few places I been with pay upfront

    Golden apple - now I think a touch more class
    Le petite aroma - 10 buks viewing line up
    I am sure there is more.....

    I think punting is not 100%

    I am not sure about charging, I always thought it was to deter the indecisive ones.... not so much others

  16. #16
    Super Fans (忠實Fans)
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    in some other countries around the world, there isn't even a lineup! you only get to see photos, lineup doesn't even exist!
    Sydney people are considered lucky

  17. #17
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    When did they start doing this? I've always paid after the line up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by F0x View Post
    I dont believe any industry has a policy where you pay before being able to look at what you will buy.

    They may have guards outside who only let a certain number of people in to more prestigious shops, or if you look like a bum they wont let you in at all, but a fee before you can even look?

    Unheard of.

    I dont condone this practice at all, EVEN IF I do understand trying to control timewasters.

    But realistically speaking, how is it "wasting time" to look at a lineup but honestly decide that no girl there is really your type? They might have the more average looking ladies on rotation and you might just not be into it. To get smacked for 20 just because nothing suits your personal taste is really an insult.

    Besides, whos time is really being wasted? Are the girls solving quantum physics to allow space hyperflight in the back there, and getting interrupted to come out is such a hindrance that the annoyance gets transacted to the punters?

    I dont get it. I also didnt get the logic that if he showed MORE girls its free. If he showed you less and you didnt pick its gonna cost you.

    Huh?

    Honestly the only time i have seen anything which was looking like time wasting was early punting days, I was at Kyoto 206 (i think), and a bunch of indian guys kept coming in, requesting a lineup, then leaving, then coming back and asking for a lineup again. In the end the papasan just didnt let them in. Now THAT I can see as time wasting. I swear they came in to get a mental picture then had a self spank somewhere and came back for more material.

    I have always wanted to try Ginzas shops, because they seem highly reviewed, but this is putting a a few holes in my perception of them.
    The logic is if he showed more than 10 then I don't get a refund, ie. I'm forced to choose someone or I lose everything. Less than 10, I'm charged 20.

    The way I see it...If you really believe your goods are of quality then you don't need to lock people in.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by yowser View Post
    in some other countries around the world, there isn't even a lineup! you only get to see photos, lineup doesn't even exist!
    Sydney people are considered lucky
    LOL...I think you're talking about those countries where prostitution is illegal. I don't think it's about being lucky or not. It's about what's common practice and acceptance of such practice. I may understand people accepting this if they go regularly and know roughly what they're getting. But for people like myself who haven't been in a long time, and whose previous experiences have been hit and miss, I don't see the logic in taking the chance when there're a least another 5 places nearby.

  20. #20
    Super Fans (忠實Fans)
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    Many of us don't get the logic. I do supply chain management for work. A reputable supplier may decline our audit request or some of the purchase orders. It could be because our volume, product requirements, ordering pattern etc do not fit their target customer profile. So they decided to focus on the customer portfolio they can service the best. That's how a business maintain their competitive advantage.
    Ginza has probably seen enough people in and out. By the moment when they mention the charge to new customer or suspected time waster, they are ready that you will talk away. Instead of getting all the girls out, they better leave them along and and show line up to someone with trust mutually. It's a business decision. I don't see any thing wrong.

    Other point I want to mention is, many of us compare girls with products like clothes, phones. We remember we are human but forget the girls are. I know a few WLs only do booking and often times stay in the rest room even when they have free time.

    Perhaps for those of us walked away if they can report back where they finally ended up to and their better lineup experience, we may have more constructive conversation.

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