The referendum, yes or no?

[Vincent888]

Sydney metro… they have enough bicycle lanes. What more do they want?


https://content.api.news/v3/images/b...627efa1e1c09cc

Albo preaching to the converted.

[ReginaldBubbles]

You wouldn't be too far off. Take a look at this article, doesn't go by suburb, but Sydney metro area is majority Yes:
https://www.news.com.au/national/pol...7f8aa3e8cfac54

There's no results for individual suburbs, just electorates.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...nteractive-map

[frisson]

https://modernenquirer.substack.com/...a-wake-up-call

In a resounding defeat, the Voice to Parliament referendum has spoken loudly, and its message cannot be ignored.

It became clear that the vision of inner-city elites was not as universally appealing as they assumed.

The referendum's outcome served as a stark reminder that the voices of indigenous Australians will not be used as ideological tools in a perverted culture war.

Inner-city progressives, have for too long, dominated the conversation around indigenous issues in Australia, perpetuating a self-righteous stance that portrays Aboriginals as pawns to be used against their political adversaries.

The prevalence of virtue signaling and the exploitation of social or political issues for personal gain has regrettably become a prevailing norm in Australian discourse, casting a shadow over sincere endeavors to tackle the complex and enduring challenges confronting indigenous communities.

They portrayed indigenous Australians as passive victims who need to be rescued, rather than acknowledging their agency and resilience.

The reductionist rhetoric created a climate of fear and intimidation, discouraging open and honest discussions. Many individuals were hesitant to express their reservations or seek clarification, fearing social or professional backlash. This environment stifled the free exchange of ideas and hindered the campaign's ability to address the concerns and questions of those who might have been receptive to a "Yes" vote with a more nuanced approach.

The "Yes" campaign's strategy of branding dissenting voices as racist not only oversimplified a complex issue but also created a hostile atmosphere, stifled constructive dialogue, and deepened divisions. These factors significantly contributed to the campaign's ultimate failure to secure its objective, underscoring the importance of a more inclusive and nuanced approach when addressing complex societal issues.

The Voice to Parliament referendum offered no concrete measures to combat child abuse, leaving indigenous children vulnerable and unheard.

Squalid living conditions are another major concern that the 'Yes' campaign seemed to downplay. In some communities, indigenous families live in overcrowded, inadequate housing, with limited access to clean water and proper sanitation. Instead of focusing on addressing these immediate needs, the referendum appeared more interested in creating a bureaucratic entity fuelled by ideological division.

Rather than focusing on creating yet another bureaucratic layer, genuine support should be directed towards helping indigenous Australians access education and employment.

The 'Yes' campaign's pitch was centered on the notion that the Voice to Parliament would bring forth sweeping change, yet it failed to address the immediate and pressing issues that indigenous Australians grapple with every day. How can an elaborate, and highly confusing, bureaucratic structure solve the crises of child abuse, rape, malnourishment, and poverty that continue to plague indigenous communities? The answer is, it cannot.

Indigenous Australians are not interested in lofty, idealistic rhetoric; they need practical solutions. They need action on the ground, resources to improve living conditions, and targeted support for healthcare and education. They need meaningful economic opportunities that can uplift them from the cycle of poverty and crime. While inner-city progressives championed the Voice to Parliament, they have shown themselves to be out of touch with reality
====

Thank you colesbag

That is a devastatingly real description of the elites and how they continued to gloss over major issues with our respected and disadvantaged indigenous. I'm speechless

Those paragraphs should be in the constitution

This articulate writer just outlined the entire playbook of the vocal lobbyists who preach but never solve. We are now much more free, as their grip is lessened

Everyone in our wonderful country has a valued opinion. This opinion is hard to argue against

Let's all ask more and more questions about Closing the Gap. We should have an annual announcement about which education or health or other criteria is falling behind, and the Minister for that area must stand up and be accountable

[Double_Adapter]

Why the fuck do you guys want to rub salt on an open wound?

For what it's worth, click on state, then electorate and that will display all the suburbs associated with that electorate.

https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2023ref/Results/

[Double_Adapter]

Thank you colesbag

That is a devastatingly real description of the elites and how they continued to gloss over major issues with our respected and disadvantaged indigenous. I'm speechless

Those paragraphs should be in the constitution

This articulate writer just outlined the entire playbook of the vocal lobbyists who preach but never solve. We are now much more free, as their grip is lessened

Everyone in our wonderful country has a valued opinion. This opinion is hard to argue against

Let's all ask more and more questions about Closing the Gap. We should have an annual announcement about which education or health or other criteria is falling behind, and the Minister for that area must stand up and be accountable

I wonder why they opted for a referendum and not a plebiscite?
Was Albo so fucken arrogant and/or confident that he would get the nod!

[frisson]

I wonder why they opted for a referendum and not a plebiscite?
Was Albo so fucken arrogant and/or confident that he would get the nod!

The PM was in the grip of these out of touch activists who have been working on the detail for 8 years. He is proving to be a lightweight leader who has no strength on details

I bet he got carried away with The Vibe

As the referendum results showed, most of the country wasn't persuaded by the lack of information

There was a sense of suspicion as well, that the Voice was connected to the popular issue of indigenous recognition in the constitution, so sneaking in 2 issues instead of the latter one we all wanted to vote Yes for

[ReginaldBubbles]

Why the fuck do you guys want to rub salt on an open wound?

For what it's worth, click on state, then electorate and that will display all the suburbs associated with that electorate.

https://www.pollbludger.net/fed2023ref/Results/

thanks, didn't realise that info was available

[ReginaldBubbles]

I wonder why they opted for a referendum and not a plebiscite?
Was Albo so fucken arrogant and/or confident that he would get the nod!

Because a plebiscite isn't binding. we only had one for same sex marriage because Turnbull was too spineless to just legislate it because his party didn't support it.

[ReginaldBubbles]

Thank you colesbag

That is a devastatingly real description of the elites and how they continued to gloss over major issues with our respected and disadvantaged indigenous. I'm speechless

Those paragraphs should be in the constitution

This articulate writer just outlined the entire playbook of the vocal lobbyists who preach but never solve. We are now much more free, as their grip is lessened

Everyone in our wonderful country has a valued opinion. This opinion is hard to argue against

Let's all ask more and more questions about Closing the Gap. We should have an annual announcement about which education or health or other criteria is falling behind, and the Minister for that area must stand up and be accountable

What is an "elite"? Are Dutton, Price and Mundine elites?

[frisson]

What is an "elite"? Are Dutton, Price and Mundine elites?

Elites are those academics / professors and paid lobbyists, that are directly paid in the indigenous field, who comment on Indigenous misery in the last 20 years and have changed nothing
They far outdate the recent politicians that you mention

[frisson]

To everyone concerned about the welfare of the indigenous

This indigenous No supporter today, absolutely took down the media who fail to report on the poverty in remote indigenous communities, and left them speechless

He tears strips off those that seek to trivialise the problem

Well done

https://youtu.be/_av7coHxye4?feature=shared

[ReginaldBubbles]

Elites are those academics / professors and paid lobbyists, that are directly paid in the indigenous field, who comment on Indigenous misery in the last 20 years and have changed nothing
They far outdate the recent politicians that you mention

They are the ones that continue to be employed and be paid for their services while the Gap persists. Their dirty secret is that their niche and job security vanishes if the Gap is addressed

They are the outspoken who called people racist or stupid, and continually implied that Indigenous disadvantage was the direct fault of the average Australian

Anyone who has followed this issue knows those elites that sought to belittle the average Australian, most of whom barely manage with cost of living themselves

Oh for fucks sake. Those people do not work and comment on these areas for the money. You really think they want the gap to persist so they have a job? And what power do they have to actually change anything other than point out the facts in the hope that the actual elites will listen? They're not blaming the average Australian, they're pointing out the institutional racism that exists, not individual's actions.

So the politician's I mentioned aren't elites? And it's beside the point but do you know how long Dutton and Mundine have been around?

[frisson]

Oh for fucks sake. Those people do not work and comment on these areas for the money. You really think they want the gap to persist so they have a job? And what power do they have to actually change anything other than point out the facts in the hope that the actual elites will listen? They're not blaming the average Australian, they're pointing out the institutional racism that exists, not individual's actions.

So the politician's I mentioned aren't elites? And it's beside the point but do you know how long Dutton and Mundine have been around?

It's clear we have different opinions. That may reflect we both have valid points. All the best to you

But the referendum was poorly constructed and the people have spoken. The elites have been humbled, that's one thing I am sure of

Many elites today have said they will stand down - no need to mention names as this is not a time to put people down personally

The elites are not elected politicians. If it needs to be explained more, then maybe it's a topic you will never agree with anyway

Glad the Australian people ignored the elites, their grip is a lot less secure now. Lets now demand the media report closely on progress in Closing the Gap

[ReginaldBubbles]

To everyone concerned about the welfare of the indigenous

This indigenous No supporter today, absolutely took down the media who fail to report on the poverty in remote indigenous communities, and left them speechless

He tears strips off those that seek to trivialise the problem

Well done

https://youtu.be/_av7coHxye4?feature=shared

What a load of shit.The voice to parliament would have done something to address the issues he mentioned. What is he actually suggesting be done instead? And somehow asking Jacinta Price what she means by saying the electoral commission and unions attempted to manipulate the vote in Aboriginal communities isn't a valid question? One indigenou no supporter does not represent the majority of indigenous yes voters. But the LNP used Mundine and Price to have that appearance.

[frisson]

What a load of shit.The voice to parliament would have done something to address the issues he mentioned. What is he actually suggesting be done instead? And somehow asking Jacinta Price what she means by saying the electoral commission and unions attempted to manipulate the vote in Aboriginal communities isn't a valid question? One indigenou no supporter does not represent the majority of indigenous yes voters. But the LNP used Mundine and Price to have that appearance.

Well done Warren Mundine, you put the press and indirectly the elites in their place for not focussing on the most disadvantaged. Very passionate plea to pay attention to some unpalatable truths

[Vincent888]

This thread could be a never ending story.

[pornonporn]

Why do we need a voice to fix things instead of just fixing things

[Vincent888]

Why do we need a voice to fix things instead of just fixing things

Good Question. Why?

[frisson]

Why do we need a voice to fix things instead of just fixing things

Great question and the answer is a dirty little secret

Exactly as you say, there are some who have spent 20-40 years saying they are the experts and only a Voice will Close the Gap

They are informally referred to as the Elites. They don't want to fix the problem. They want to create a committee. Many past committees have failed

The Elites are a group of people (not politicians) who think their way is the only way to fix the problem

Elites are those academics / professors and paid lobbyists, that are directly paid in the indigenous field, who comment on Indigenous misery in the last 20 years and have changed nothing
They outlast politicians who usually get voted out, and so the Elites remain and pretend to be the saviours. Don't try to question them, they feel they are the morally and often intellectually superior

They are the ones that continue to be employed and be paid for their services while the Gap persists. Their dirty secret is that their niche and job security vanishes if the Gap is addressed

The Voice would have costed millions of dollars, I can promise you
Guess who gets that money?
The Elites!
That right, they lobby to be the members of the Voice committee, which is just another new Committee
Im not making this stuff up

[ReginaldBubbles]

Good Question. Why?

Because historically the people affected by the policies haven't been listened to. It's just been actual elites paternally deciding what these people need without understanding the cultural differences, historical generational trauma and institutional racism (not talking about individual
Australian's attitudes here).

And I'm pretty sure millionaire Warren Mundine is more "elite" than anyone on an academics salary.