With the roadmap unveiled today, would massage shops be considered under retail?

[GallBall2203]

I was reading the roadmap unveiled today here: https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/roadmap-to-freedom-unveiled-for-fully-vaccinated

It mentioned some specific stores like barbers, gyms, hospitalities and retail stores, but it doesn't say anything about massage shops? Do you think that they are part of this roadmap?

Just a disclaimer, I think I am going to wait a bit before I go back to shops but it just came to mind.

[MisterWhippy]

I was reading the roadmap unveiled today here: https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/roadmap-to-freedom-unveiled-for-fully-vaccinated

It mentioned some specific stores like barbers, gyms, hospitalities and retail stores, but it doesn't say anything about massage shops? Do you think that they are part of this roadmap?

Just a disclaimer, I think I am going to wait a bit before I go back to shops but it just came to mind.

"Massage parlors" and "sex services" are specifically categorized under "beauty and other services", with requirements for reopening specified.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/covid-safe/beauty-and-other-services


Resources and guidance on how to complete a COVID-19 Safety Plan including salon, hairdressing salons, spa, nail salons, waxing salons, tanning salons, massage parlours, tattoo studios, sex on premises venues, and sex services.

[kungflu20]

Hopefully there'll be enough space for 1 person per 4 square metres :miao:

[james_brendan]

I guess you can't have 3somes or orgies. :shout:

[GoldfishMan]

I guess you can't have 3somes or orgies. :shout:
Why not? When I fuck a girl, 2 become 1....

[Fintr]

Just a disclaimer, I think I am going to wait a bit before I go back to shops but it just came to mind.[/QUOTE]

Agree the shops have been closed up for months they will need some airing out.

[Awqjoq]

I'm sure there was a gap between places like hairdressers and massage/brothels opening last year but I forget how long. I'm just worried that with the likely strict new checking in requirements it'll be impossible to go to one incognito!

[Climax598]

I'm sure there was a gap between places like hairdressers and massage/brothels opening last year but I forget how long. I'm just worried that with the likely strict new checking in requirements it'll be impossible to go to one incognito!
QR code check in will be one and vaccinated certificate will be one. It already say fully vaccinated have more freedom.

[Sharphorse]

It will be interesting to see how compliant shops are with this. On one hand they wouldn’t want the bad press of being a super spreader and on the other they don’t wanna be too intrusive with their customer’s details who don’t wanna give their real names when they show their vaccination status

[tpol]

In think they said the onus is on the shops,. If they are spreading, they'll probably get checked and then locked down

[studsg]

It will be interesting to see how compliant shops are with this. On one hand they wouldn’t want the bad press of being a super spreader and on the other they don’t wanna be too intrusive with their customer’s details who don’t wanna give their real names when they show their vaccination statusQR check in to prove one is vaccinated will definitely happen. The shop won't have your info but they are mandated to know one is fully vaccinated before letting them in.

Only Service NSW will have the info of where you visited. For contact tracing. Plus anyone who has access to your Service NSW App.

Was thinking of using fake info as some ppl do on there Service NSW App, but won't work with showing one is vaccinated.

[studsg]

In think they said the onus is on the shops,. If they are spreading, they'll probably get checked and then locked downThe Govt will probably be pretty strict on those caught flouting the rules. To serve as an example. Probably impose heavy penalties which may cause some shops to permanently close. Which will be terrible for us.

[aussiegaigin]

I'm sure there was a gap between places like hairdressers and massage/brothels opening last year but I forget how long. I'm just worried that with the likely strict new checking in requirements it'll be impossible to go to one incognito!

IIRC, hairdressers were allowed to stay open last year, with occupation limitations.

[asiafever]

IIRC, hairdressers were allowed to stay open last year, with occupation limitations.

Hairdressers had to close for a short time. There was some confusion as they were allowed to stay open, then they changed their minds, or perhaps it was the other way around.

[adahar]

QR check in to prove one is vaccinated will definitely happen. The shop won't have your info but they are mandated to know one is fully vaccinated before letting them in.

Only Service NSW will have the info of where you visited. For contact tracing. Plus anyone who has access to your Service NSW App.

Was thinking of using fake info as some ppl do on there Service NSW App, but won't work with showing one is vaccinated.

There is no mandate on any business to require proof of vaccination of customers. It's up to the business themselves to require it. You don't have to go into the shop if you don't like it.

[adahar]

The Govt will probably be pretty strict on those caught flouting the rules. To serve as an example. Probably impose heavy penalties which may cause some shops to permanently close. Which will be terrible for us.

The only "rule" is check in, nothing else.

[aussiegaigin]

Hairdressers had to close for a short time. There was some confusion as they were allowed to stay open, then they changed their minds, or perhaps it was the other way around.

I only remember that I had no problems getting my regular monthly cut during that period. The shop has 8 chairs, but only 3 were operating. My girl was only working 2-3 days per week rather than her usual six. They closed weekends, but I thought through lack of business.

[aussiegaigin]

The only "rule" is check in, nothing else.

At the moment, maybe.

When it happens there may be new PHOs?

[rooter]

Seems like there will be two major requirements for customers when the lockdown ends around mid October.
One is the QR check-in at any business you enter. We are already doing this so nothing really new.
Secondly will be having to prove you are vaccinated to enter some businesses.
Which businesses you need to be vaccinated to enter has not been specified yet, but I am sure massage shops and brothels will be among them.
Also how you prove you are vaccinated has not been specified.
At the moment you can download your vax certificate from the Medicare app and save it onto your phone or print it.
I would assume that the vaccination certificate will be integrated into the Service NSW app so that you can do your QR check-in and show you are vaccinated in a single swipe (or maybe two swipes).
It should be easy enough to create an integrated system.

[adahar]

At the moment, maybe.

When it happens there may be new PHOs?

PHO's usually have a sunset of 90 days unless they are repealed or re-issued. The minister is the sole signatory upon the advice of the CHO but sooner or later we'll have to revert back to usual practice, the PHO's have to stop sometime.

My feeling is that they may well be morphed into State legislation with PHO's issued ad hoc if they want to restrict certain areas, or businesses! Future localised restrictions have already been flagged by GB this morning. Now that morning press briefings will be held by Health officials it will allow them to beaver on with other business (Covid legislation). Expect to see something in the new year.

I'm afraid we'll be forever stuck with QR check in's, the data it produces and its usefulness is far to valuable to give up.

[adahar]

Seems like there will be two major requirements for customers when the lockdown ends around mid October.
One is the QR check-in at any business you enter. We are already doing this no nothing really new.
Secondly will be having to prove you are vaccinated to enter some businesses.
Which businesses you need to be vaccinated to enter has not been specified yet, but I am sure massage shops and brothels will be among them.
Also how you prove you are vaccinated has not been specified.
At the moment you can download your vax certificate from the Medicare app and save it onto your phone or print it.
I would assume that the vaccination certificate will be integrated into the Service NSW app so that you can do your QR check-in and show you are vaccinated in a single swipe (or maybe two swipes)

The vax check will be built into the NSW app. Whether it returns a combined approval or a separate flag depends on the link between the internal applications. Either way I doubt anyone will be able see anything other than an approval flag. At the moment it seems that govt is happy to allow individual businesses to decide, but if this procedure is normalised and not opposed, it's possible that some rules might well be introduced to "protect" some businesses that might drag their feet.

Not sure how non smartphones and phone extant registrations will be handled! I have an idea but there are too many variables yet.

It's a clause in the current PHO that allows customer registration to be off line, produced on demand by the CHO. This is a loophole that will need to plugged to ensure system integrity. If this clause disappears it'll mean firm rules are on the way. Watch that space.

[dannyboy]

Definitely watch this space, there is a case being brought before the supreme Court... Hopefully common sense prevails...

[vitrium]

I think I could write a basic app that looks exactly the same as a check in certificate in a day. Easy to circumvent. Not saying I will do that. But it is easy for someone to do. And just fill it with fake info: name etc.

[studsg]

There is no mandate on any business to require proof of vaccination of customers. It's up to the business themselves to require it. You don't have to go into the shop if you don't like it.

You are saying the opposite of what NSW is mandating for businesses that want to operate when lockdown is over. It's obviously not up to the business. it's a rule they have to follow, just like how all retail businesses now have to have the QR code in place.

Like you said. You can choose not to go into the shop... in fact it will be not going into any shop if you refuse to QR check-in to proof full vaccination.

[studsg]

There will be a huge market where lots of anti-vaxxers would buy that App. Bet the upgraded Service NSW + QR Scan will require a validation response from Medicare to confirm vaccination status. Not sure how it will display on the App with the validation. Would be interesting to see...

[Climax598]

There will be a huge market where lots of anti-vaxxers would buy that App. Bet the upgraded Service NSW + QR Scan will require a validation response from Medicare to confirm vaccination status. Not sure how it will display on the App with the validation. Would be interesting to see...
I think your Medicare covid Vax will be exported to NSW service app like you can export your Medicare covid certificate to Google pay now.

[aussiegaigin]

You are saying the opposite of what NSW is mandating for businesses that want to operate when lockdown is over. It's obviously not up to the business. it's a rule they have to follow, just like how all retail businesses now have to have the QR code in place.

Like you said. You can choose not to go into the shop... in fact it will be not going into any shop if you refuse to QR check-in to proof full vaccination.

It is mandated that shops must have a QR code, but the shops are not able to enforce that customers actually use it. There is very little in the way of checks.

Pubs can probably use their security guards to block non-conformers, but I wonder how your local supermarkets will cope?

[Vader]

Definitely watch this space, there is a case being brought before the supreme Court... Hopefully common sense prevails...

Are you the case?

[adahar]

You are saying the opposite of what NSW is mandating for businesses that want to operate when lockdown is over. It's obviously not up to the business. it's a rule they have to follow, just like how all retail businesses now have to have the QR code in place.

Like you said. You can choose not to go into the shop... in fact it will be not going into any shop if you refuse to QR check-in to proof full vaccination.

There's a lot movement in the PHO's. They change from day to day, as you might expect. However there's a change I can't quite reconcile.

There was a "main" PHO which laid out the general rules and then there was a supplementary PHO which was altered according to the changes made constantly. The "main" PHO I can't seem to track down now, I have a copy but I can't find a current link to it. Anyway......

Clause 15 (2) states:- The person must ensure the person’s contact details are registered electronically then the person enters the premises

Clause 15 (3) states:- The occupier of the premises must take reasonable steps to ensure a person complies with this clause when entering the premises.

It's clear that the obligation to register is on the entering person. If the occupier fails to ensure you register it won't prevent the person from being liable but it won't mean that the occupier is liable either.

I'm not sure I heard that the govt will mandate businesses to require proof of vaccination. Where did you get that information from? Please provide a link if you can.

[adahar]

It is mandated that shops must have a QR code, but the shops are not able to enforce that customers actually use it. There is very little in the way of checks.

Pubs can probably use their security guards to block non-conformers, but I wonder how your local supermarkets will cope?

I don't think supermarkets will do anything different. They are designated "essential" so are still available to those who don't have a certificate.

[studsg]

It is mandated that shops must have a QR code, but the shops are not able to enforce that customers actually use it. There is very little in the way of checks.

Pubs can probably use their security guards to block non-conformers, but I wonder how your local supermarkets will cope?Fair call. Agree whether the business can enforce the QR check-in is going to be a question.

My local Coles has hired security guards that blocks people from entering who did not do the QR check-in. That's a step in the right direction.

Funny thing is my local cafe where I get my coffee. The barista keeps repeating, show me your QR check-in and refuses to take my order until I show it to him. Nice way of making sure customers check-in

[aussiegaigin]

It has been mentioned repeatedly in media for the last few days:

On Thursday, Premier Gladys Berejiklian announced that fully vaccinated people in NSW would be able to visit gyms, pubs and households – subject to capacity limits – once the state reaches 70 per cent full vaccination. Larger gatherings, in stadiums and theatres, will also be permitted subject to capacity limits for the double-dosed.[SMH 10/9]

How it will be enforced remains to be seen. If you invite a few friends over to your home, are you really going to check their vax status?

[studsg]

It has been mentioned repeatedly in media for the last few days:

On Thursday, Premier Gladys Berejiklian announced that fully vaccinated people in NSW would be able to visit gyms, pubs and households – subject to capacity limits – once the state reaches 70 per cent full vaccination. Larger gatherings, in stadiums and theatres, will also be permitted subject to capacity limits for the double-dosed.[SMH 10/9]

How it will be enforced remains to be seen. If you invite a few friends over to your home, are you really going to check their vax status?Nice one. That dude obviously lives on another planet where there is no Covid nor rules.

[adahar]

New PHO commencing on the 13th September. Note Division 1A (2.1A) page 8.

https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/file/Public%20Health%20(COVID-19%20Additional%20Restrictions%20for%20Delta%20Out break)%20Order%20(No%202)%202021_210913.pdf

This is the amendments contained within that PHO (just in case you don't want to read all of it, see page 3).

https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/file/Public%20Health%20(COVID-19%20Additional%20Restrictions%20for%20Delta%20Out break)%20Order%20(No%202)%20Amendment%20(No%207)%2 0Order%202021.pdf

The schedule for LGA's of concern" is being scrapped from 1st Oct. bringing them into line with everybody else.

[aussiegaigin]

But there is still the grey area:

Premises that must not be open
The following premises in the general area must not be open to the public—
(a) amusement centres,
(b) nightclubs,
(c) sex services premises,
(d) sex on premises venues,
(e) strip clubs.

Waiting to see what happens on Monday

[adahar]

But there is still the grey area:


Waiting to see what happens on Monday


To be clear the PHO refers to the "General Area", which doesn't include "Stay at home" or "Areas of Concern".

So those outside of Sydney are fine, we still have to wait.

As they are scrapping the schedule for "Areas of concern" on 1st October it might indicate that other rules might go then.

[TheMaestro]

This is a potentially very interesting development if they get rid of the LGA's of concern on 1 October. We wouldn't have hit 70% by then.

[adahar]

This is a potentially very interesting development if they get rid of the LGA's of concern on 1 October. We wouldn't have hit 70% by then.

Removing the LGA's of concern may just be wishful thinking! It could change at anytime, and probably will if those vax numbers don't get up.

[zoozilla]

I was reading the roadmap unveiled today here: https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/roadmap-to-freedom-unveiled-for-fully-vaccinated

It mentioned some specific stores like barbers, gyms, hospitalities and retail stores, but it doesn't say anything about massage shops? Do you think that they are part of this roadmap?

Just a disclaimer, I think I am going to wait a bit before I go back to shops but it just came to mind.

If the WL tells the police she is giving you a haircut then everything will fall into barber category.

If the police asks why she is naked she can say she doesn't want hairs on her dress.

[MisterWhippy]

If I'm reading the orders right...


Premises that must not be open
The following premises in the general area must not be open to the public—
(a) amusement centres,
(b) nightclubs,
(c) sex services premises,
(d) sex on premises venues,
(e) strip clubs.
p.8

So what's the "general area"?


Whole State other than stay at home areas and areas of concern
The whole of the State is the general area other than an area that is—
(a) a stay at home area, or
(b) an area of concern.
p.41

So brothels will be closed across the whole state.

But how about "stay at home area", or "area of concern"? Because they're not the "general area", can brothels reopen? No: see pages 15 and 25, they have similar clauses.

So it seems that what's happening this year is the same as what happened last year: brothels are being deliberately left out of the reopening plans.

[Climax598]

If I'm reading the orders right...


p.8

So what's the "general area"?


p.41

So brothels will be closed across the whole state.

But how about "stay at home area", or "area of concern"? Because they're not the "general area", can brothels reopen? No: see pages 15 and 25, they have similar clauses.

So it seems that what's happening this year is the same as what happened last year: brothels are being deliberately left out of the reopening plans.
Correct Brothels have too much close contact and exchange of body fluids but massage parlour mama Glady and papa Brad don't understandard have close contact and body fluids almost similar like brothel's but different in name. Brothel's will be open again after a few later like last year secretly without much announcement.

[zoozilla]

Brothel's will be open again after a few later like last year secretly without much announcement.

I think to win popular votes our premiere would call a special press conference to announce the opening of parlours and brothels this year.

[tpol]

Labor will announce if we win the election, there will be no qr code checkin for rnt and brithels

[Rooster18]

Got a msg from our hairdresser who is taking bookings as of Oct 18th (pending any late changes)...

So hairdressers and Nail Salons can open once the 70% is achieved..

Massage both legit and semi legit is still off the cards?? (The semi legit are not officially offering sexual services..)

[TheMaestro]

I belief massage parlours (not brothels) will reopen when hair dressers and nail salons do.

[GallBall2203]

Aren't legit remedial massage parlors allowed to open during lockdown right now?

[aussiegaigin]

Aren't legit remedial massage parlors allowed to open during lockdown right now?

Yes, they are, but seems a lot are closed anyway.

[tpol]

Are remedial massage considered allied health?

If so,they have been advised y their body to tell their clients to only seek treatment if they are in pain otherwise to defer the treatment .

I looked it up regarding my chiro

But can I leave my lga to see my chiro?

[Rooster18]

Does anyone remember in the last lockdown in 2020 if massage shops opened at the same time as Hairdressers and Nail Salons? This might give us an indication? I cant remember as I remember being quite cautious at the time to get back into it.

[GallBall2203]

Does anyone remember in the last lockdown in 2020 if massage shops opened at the same time as Hairdressers and Nail Salons? This might give us an indication? I cant remember as I remember being quite cautious at the time to get back into it.

I think I remember them opening a few weeks later

[aussiegaigin]

Does anyone remember in the last lockdown in 2020 if massage shops opened at the same time as Hairdressers and Nail Salons? This might give us an indication? I cant remember as I remember being quite cautious at the time to get back into it.

I think the "sex-service" places reopened after legit shops.

[Climax598]

Hairdressers never officially close. Only 1.5m and wear a mask. I remember I have a hair cut

[Rackster]

I think the "sex-service" places reopened after legit shops.

it was a few weeks later officially, but it wassnt like this. theres no way we are getting parole nwext month, they just said that so there wasnt a riot.. It will be revised to xx days no infection, x % voluntary mandatory poison stabbed, and if not done yet its a 2 month wait, or get a free DVT with double the side effects in first few weeks, then reporting stopped.

Massage and incalls will be same time, theres enough that do both, and if just massage, then the shops will open asnd 'only massage' and probably require masks on during service like Vic