SUBMARINES & MISSILES

[CharlieM]

Yes! Something completely unrelated. Just might be someone out there who can shed some light for this poor ignorant Punter.

The Government is gonna spend Billions on the Subs and Missiles. Now who is actually spending this money, is it the Taxpayer? Is it the same scenario as the vaccines that everyone was so grateful for the money being spent by the Government to save us from Covid, that that in actual fact the taxpayers and their Grandchildren will still be paying for for years to come.

And my second dilemma....why is the Government so anxious about a threat and from where are they contemplating this threat will come from?

[Jackk]

I think they are preparing for war with china

[keebab]

I mean the short answer is that we and future generations will be paying for these subs and missiles. Their use is debatable as they will require critical infrastructure to run and service which will be the first things we lose in a proxy war with China or Russia but hey, they probably have a few outboard motors too. We're also spending quite a bit on EV vehicles, tanks and artillery systems but nowhere near the $$$ being promised for these subs.

[675r]

With the rapid pace of technology, these subs will probably be obsolete when they are finally delivered.

I read this article a while back… “Australia’s proposed nuclear-powered submarines could be obsolete by the time they hit the water in the 2040s due to new technologies making underwater vessels “visible”, some experts argue”

[Azzkikr]

Its a new Arms Race. We just bought 200+ tomahawk missiles. USA secures 4 additional bases in Philippines. Japan is now rebuilding its military to arm itself.

Its inevitable that China will invade Taiwan which most likely trigger a 3rd World War.
Everyone is just getting ready and arming themselves and building alliances.

[asiafever]

There's a long answer and a short answer. The short answer is that by arming it's allies in the area the US have less need to get directly involved, and our gain is that we get better tech than we would otherwise have had, as well as the safety net of knowing the US have our back. Sure the sub may be "outdated" by then, but they'll be far more advanced than the ones we would have got from France, as well as being more advanced than the majority of subs floating about, and their purpose will be to hit the South China Sea without ever leaving our own territorial waters. Effectively the US has ensured China, which is totally reliant on trade to survive, literally, could have it's shipping routes shut down at a moments notice. I won't bore you by going any further. You get the idea.

[Azzkikr]

In short its basically the Cold War happening all over again only this time with the 3 Super Powers of the world

[4647]

We are getting 3 second hand subs by 2030. There is no immediate threat . Years of underfunding our military because governments could . We usually spend 2 % gdp.on defence this works out at 3%. Sounds a lot but it's over 30 years . A few subs won't stop China but they won't attack us it would start ww3. Don't listen to dutton he just using the lnp race card that has worked for years . We do need strong allies we are to small to stand alone . America is going back to.the Philippines. Should have been done already but scomo couldn't organise a fuck in a brothel

[rooter]

Complete waste of money. And just pissing off our neighbours and making us more of a target.
Totally inappropriate strategy to a threat that doesn't even exist anyway.
China is not our enemy. But they are making it our enemy by these stupid policies.
The Liberals started this alarmist nonsense and demonising of China and Labor swallowed it whole for fear of appearing weak on defence and foreign policy.
The only person talking any sense on this issue is Paul Keating.

[Nerius13]

China isn't an enemy as long as we tow their line.
They like, a certain former Asian power seek to create a maritime buffer zone. The future is written in the history of the 1930's. A European power eager to regain a position of power and an Asian power ready to make the best use of the situation. WW1 saw the HMAS Australia, a single Battle Cruiser, by her presence keep off the German Pacific Squadron under Von Spee. Today's capital ship, the hunter killer submarine, could keep our coasts clear of Chinese subs. It's not so much the sub as the potential. Keating has no idea of the use of seapower.

[Ausinsin]

It's an investment which is a lovely sweet spot of being expensive enough to require significant resources from future taxpayers and also not enough to actually prove any real deterrent...

[AHLUNGOR]

Yes! Something completely unrelated. Just might be someone out there who can shed some light for this poor ignorant Punter.

The Government is gonna spend Billions on the Subs and Missiles. Now who is actually spending this money, is it the Taxpayer? Is it the same scenario as the vaccines that everyone was so grateful for the money being spent by the Government to save us from Covid, that that in actual fact the taxpayers and their Grandchildren will still be paying for for years to come.

And my second dilemma....why is the Government so anxious about a threat and from where are they contemplating this threat will come from?

Brother Charlie,

I suggest you go take a look at the recent YouTube on Paul Keating in the National Press Club. The wise man will speak the truth and answer all the questions.

And I strongly suggest you watch the full version which is about an hour long. Especially right to the end when Paul was taking questions from all those so called journalists and shot them down in fames one by one. It’s like a University Professor dressing down some naive elementary kids in the school halls.

For example: some chick from Sky News asked: you said you don’t think China is a threat to Australia, how do you know that ?

Keating: because I have a brain

Enough said , and enjoy

Cheers

[AHLUNGOR]

Some interesting facts according to Paul Keating:

For the cost of the 3 nuclear submarines, we could have purchased 50 Collins Class submarines.

The nuclear Sub is too big for the Australian relatively shallow coastal water at 8000 tonnes and can be easily detected by the satellites. Collins class at 4000 tonnes is half the size so would be safer and serve us better on a defense point of view.

The nuclear sub will only be armed with conventional weapons same as the Collins, without the capability of nuclear weapons. It makes no difference on our offensive power.

You need more facts ??


Ok, May be one more, there is no Sovereignty on these nuclear sub, pretty much everything will still be under the control of the US central command. We can’t order the sub to go or do what our Prime Minister would direct it to go without the approval from the US side.

It’s exactly the same situation with all the fighter jets the US sold to Saudi Arabia, they can not have their own planes up in the air on defense or patrol run unless the US command gave them the ok.

So, do you think that’s a good deal ?


Cheers

[Sibon]

....why is the Government so anxious about a threat and from where are they contemplating this threat will come from?

China. Look at the amount of Chinese WLs and MLs here they have already infiltrated Australia.

They will be at the forefront of the war against Australia and we the punters will be their first victims laying on the massage tables naked totally defendless.

[JJBlows]

Was having lunch at a Cafe and was listening in to some employees of a huge defence contractor sitting nearby. they basically suspect the nuclear subs are essential to regional security but also offer the first stepping stone to Australian becoming a nuclear country, not in the terms of ICBM's but in nuclear power generation. Australia will be having a alot of nuclear technology and engineering data handed over to us from the yanks and Brits, this knowledge is essential if we turn to nuclear power

[Climax598]

Keating: because I have a brain

Cheers[/QUOTE]
Maybe his brain is ready for nursing home.

[Soccerfan]

Keating is not neutral either, he was on the board of a Chinese Bank for 10 years. And good fences make good neighbours. I don’t care who our threat is but we should be able to defend ourselves. I would have thought some war planes would have been the go.

[Nerius13]

Some interesting facts according to Paul Keating:

For the cost of the 3 nuclear submarines, we could have purchased 50 Collins Class submarines.

The nuclear Sub is too big for the Australian relatively shallow coastal water at 8000 tonnes and can be easily detected by the satellites. Collins class at 4000 tonnes is half the size so would be safer and serve us better on a defense point of view.

The nuclear sub will only be armed with conventional weapons same as the Collins, without the capability of nuclear weapons. It makes no difference on our offensive power.

You need more facts ??


Ok, May be one more, there is no Sovereignty on these nuclear sub, pretty much everything will still be under the control of the US central command. We can’t order the sub to go or do what our Prime Minister would direct it to go without the approval from the US side.

It’s exactly the same situation with all the fighter jets the US sold to Saudi Arabia, they can not have their own planes up in the air on defense or patrol run unless the US command gave them the ok.

So, do you think that’s a good deal ?


Cheers

Collins and any diesel electric submarine needs to snort to recharge batteries making them detectable to satellites. A nuclear sub once submerged doesn't need to surface until its return to base rendering RORSAT ( the old Sov Ocean Radar Satellites and their like useless).

The Nuclear subs high underwater speed and endurance is what is required not nuclear weapons which by the way in somes cases is just a change of warhead not the delivery system.

The sovereignty issue is a red herring as why is it needed as the submarine won't be nuclear armed and by your standards is just bigger faster with more endurance with better conditions for the crew Collins.

The subs are about keeping the ocean trade lanes open they can range deep into the Indian Ocean. Subs are hunted and killed by subs now days. China needs only place her own hunter killers in the Indian Ocean to throttle our supplies. All this media hype about these subs reaching Chinese waters as a threat is rubbish.

[Double_Adapter]

The frogs, the poms, the yanks, the krouts et al etc are all seasoned war pimps. As for Australia and the rest of the world we've simply become their whores. Once countries get addicted to the shit the war pimps sell, provide, give, and feed , they become their sex slaves, and then Stockholm syndrome sets in.

The US, UK and the EU are the biggest warmongers on this planet. Always on the lookout for the next war punt and a new whore. Funny how the frogs got upset when the Aussie whore switched to a pimp that provided a different substance.

It's all fucked, we are all whores selling ourselves for a quick fix and a fistful of dollars.

As for the billions of dollars that we'll spend on a few subs, fuck that! Spend it on nuclear missiles, silos, and launching pads and place them all along the top end and west coast of Australia. If anybody wants to pick a fight, pull the trigger and launch the fuckers to kingdom come. That's exactly how Russia threatened the US and EU if they stepped in on the war with Ukraine.

Anyway, what happened to the trillion dollars we spent on that fucked up science experiment called Covid-19 ? Well that was money well spent wasn't it!

What a fucked up planet!

[JJBlows]

Subs are hunted and killed by subs now days.

Not true, P3 Orion and P8 poseidon aircraft are anti submarine warfare ships and the P8 actually carries torpedoes on its wings. Navy also has a hunter class frigate that does ASW. The subs that only hunt other subs are known as Hunter killer or fast attack class.

[Nerius13]

Not true, P3 Orion and P8 poseidon aircraft are anti submarine warfare ships and the P8 actually carries torpedoes on its wings. Navy also has a hunter class frigate that does ASW. The subs that only hunt other subs are known as Hunter killer or fast attack class.

Not true? Yes, surface forces do have limited antisubmarine ability. The P3 and P8 are maritime patrol aircraft with antisubmarine capability but don't put your house on them achieving kills. As for the Hunter Class Frigate or any surface warship, the advantages are all with the submarine. It can detect surface contacts long before current passive listening systems ie a tail can detect them. Active SONAR has a limited range and add to that modern antisubmarine weapons are torpedoes, a submarine's weapon of choice. Skimmers are hard-pushed to find them let alone damage them. As a practical example, US Carrier Battle Groups' first line of antisubmarine defence are their attached submarines. Like it or not submarines are the current "capital ships" our submarines will be multirole.

[dotcumdotinyou]

Its sad that we have to spend all this money to deter China. It would've been much better spent in the fields of science or medicines.

During WW2 the US and us put Japanese (mostly all of Asian appearance) in internment camps in the country, we and the US didn't have German internment camps as we were both racists, there was only "the yellow peril". Do you think if China gets too aggressive with Taiwan or invades we'll put Aussies of Asian appearance in internment camps?
Before you say it couldn't happen again remember how badly Asians were treated at the beginning of covid? When Trump labelled it the "Chinese flu".

[Climax598]

Its sad that we have to spend all this money to deter China. It would've been much better spent in the fields of science or medicines.

During WW2 the US and us put Japanese (mostly all of Asian appearance) in internment camps in the country, we and the US didn't have German internment camps as we were both racists, there was only "the yellow peril". Do you think if China gets too aggressive with Taiwan or invades we'll put Aussies of Asian appearance in internment camps?
Before you say it couldn't happen again remember how badly Asians were treated at the beginning of covid? When Trump labelled it the "Chinese flu".
https://guides.sl.nsw.gov.au/wwi-and-australia/internment_camps#:~:text=Most%20of%20the%20people% 20who,Torrens%20Island%20in%20South%20Australia.

[Double_Adapter]

https://guides.sl.nsw.gov.au/wwi-and-australia/internment_camps#:~:text=Most%20of%20the%20people% 20who,Torrens%20Island%20in%20South%20Australia.

...that put that argument to bed, real quick!

[Kiryu0]

https://guides.sl.nsw.gov.au/wwi-and-australia/internment_camps#:~:text=Most%20of%20the%20people% 20who,Torrens%20Island%20in%20South%20Australia.

Lmao, nice one!

[Vader]

Its sad that we have to spend all this money to deter China. It would've been much better spent in the fields of science or medicines.

During WW2 the US and us put Japanese (mostly all of Asian appearance) in internment camps in the country, we and the US didn't have German internment camps as we were both racists, there was only "the yellow peril". Do you think if China gets too aggressive with Taiwan or invades we'll put Aussies of Asian appearance in internment camps?
Before you say it couldn't happen again remember how badly Asians were treated at the beginning of covid? When Trump labelled it the "Chinese flu".

What are your views on where covid originated?

[GoldfishMan]

What are your views on where covid originated?

It came from a place where the light don't shine.