Sex work on working holiday visa?

[faruk]

I've met a WL who is paranoid about getting caught because she is on a working holiday visa. But I've looked it up and it seems like sex work is allowed unless there is a condition specifically not allowing it?

Does anyone know anything about this?

[andrewv]

Tell her she’s one of hundreds in the same boat.
Authorities tend to focus more on those who overstay their visa.

[yowser]

The Korean government heavily cracks down on their girls going abroad for sex work

[faruk]

Tell her she’s one of hundreds in the same boat.
Authorities tend to focus more on those who overstay their visa.

So it's not allowed? Do you know where it says that? I can't find it anywhere. Unless it is a default condition that sex work is not allowed?


The Korean government heavily cracks down on their girls going abroad for sex work

Not Korean.

[Zoobender]

I think it's less about the sex work and more about the hours. Working holiday means both ie limited hours of work as they are meant to also be travelling and being tourists. Some of these girls work 8 hr shifts or more 4 to 5 days a week

[faruk]

I think it's less about the sex work and more about the hours. Working holiday means both ie limited hours of work as they are meant to also be travelling and being tourists. Some of these girls work 8 hr shifts or more 4 to 5 days a week

There's no limit on the hours, the visa allows people to work full time.

[Riff888]

Only if there's lots of funds in her accounts with no source and tax record.
That's when they'll investigate further.

Tell her not to put too much cash in her account.

[Niceguy11]

I am listening to FBI radio right now and they are interviewing a Brazilian escort who works in Sydney doing escort and brothel work. Very interesting insights into her life and how hard it can be for international students studying and working in the sex industry.

[GoldfishMan]

From the horse's mouth:

"If you hold a Working Holiday (subclass 417) or Work and Holiday (subclass 462) visa, you can do any kind of work over the course of your 12-month stay in Australia. There are limitations on the timeframe you may work with any one employer.

Mandatory visa condition 8547 limits you to a maximum period of 6 months’ work with any one employer. If your work does not fall within an exemption to condition 8547, you will have to seek permission to work longer than 6 months for the same employer."

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visa-conditions-subsite/Pages/permission-to-work-longer-than-6-months-with-one-employer.aspx#:~:text=%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8BWorking%20 Holiday%20Maker%20work%20limitations&text=Mandatory%20visa%20condition%208547%20limits, months%20for%20the%20same%20employer.

It can't be any clearer than that. They can do ANY work they want to do.

Of course, if they do a job that would be illegal by any other law, eg. Drug dealing, hitman, etc, then they are in trouble because of that law, not due to visa restrictions.
Sex work is NOT illegal in NSW.

[JJBlows]

The Korean government heavily cracks down on their girls going abroad for sex work

A: why?
B: how do they know they went for that work?, punishments?, can they stop girls from leaving or returning etc?

[Double_Adapter]

A: why?
B: how do they know they went for that work?, punishments?, can they stop girls from leaving or returning etc?

He's probably referring to North Korea

[hornedbeast]

The maximum 6 months with any employer is easily circumvented by a keeper having multiple shelf companies, hence a 'new' employer after 6 months.

[aussiegaigin]

Going back a few years the 6 month limit also applied to the industry they worked in. So 6 months in sex meant the next 6 months in a completely different job. I think there was a time limit on locations too.

[Riff888]

From the horse's mouth:

"If you hold a Working Holiday (subclass 417) or Work and Holiday (subclass 462) visa, you can do any kind of work over the course of your 12-month stay in Australia. There are limitations on the timeframe you may work with any one employer.

Mandatory visa condition 8547 limits you to a maximum period of 6 months’ work with any one employer. If your work does not fall within an exemption to condition 8547, you will have to seek permission to work longer than 6 months for the same employer."

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visa-conditions-subsite/Pages/permission-to-work-longer-than-6-months-with-one-employer.aspx#:~:text=%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8BWorking%20 Holiday%20Maker%20work%20limitations&text=Mandatory%20visa%20condition%208547%20limits, months%20for%20the%20same%20employer.

It can't be any clearer than that. They can do ANY work they want to do.

Of course, if they do a job that would be illegal by any other law, eg. Drug dealing, hitman, etc, then they are in trouble because of that law, not due to visa restrictions.
Sex work is NOT illegal in NSW.
Yes, as long as you pay tax.
How many WLs you know pay tax?

I know a girl who's account has frozen by her bank because of too many cash and PayID deposits.

Cash in hand jobs does not benefit the government.

I've helped girls by transferring their cash to accounts OS via WU.

Working holiday visas are limited to a few Asian countries I think. Taiwan tall and Korea can do it. I don't think Thailand or China are on the list.

[yowser]

A: why?
B: how do they know they went for that work?, punishments?, can they stop girls from leaving or returning etc?

Because around 12 years ago there was a huge influx of Korean WL’s that travelled to America, Canada and Australia to work and they gave Korea a bad image, the K government now issues warnings to their girls going abroad to “study” not to do sex work and if caught they will be penalised when they return home.
There are rumours that K government sends their people to check, thats one reason why Korean WL’s dont take Korean customers

[GoldfishMan]

Yes, as long as you pay tax.
How many WLs you know pay tax?

I know a girl who's account has frozen by her bank because of too many cash and PayID deposits.

Cash in hand jobs does not benefit the government.

I've helped girls by transferring their cash to accounts OS via WU.

Working holiday visas are limited to a few Asian countries I think. Taiwan tall and Korea can do it. I don't think Thailand or China are on the list.

That's tax evasion. They'd get done for that if caught regardless if they're on whatever visa or even a citizen.

[JJBlows]

That's tax evasion. They'd get done for that if caught regardless if they're on whatever visa or even a citizen.

but how does that work here? She makes cash deposits into an overseas bank account, won't her country of origin tax her on that rather than the Australian government?

I know the ATO will see the money move out of Australia but what's the most they can do? They can kick her out but once the money is overseas they can't touch it?

[Riff888]

but how does that work here? She makes cash deposits into an overseas bank account, won't her country of origin tax her on that rather than the Australian government?

I know the ATO will see the money move out of Australia but what's the most they can do? They can kick her out but once the money is overseas they can't touch it?
If the bank deems unusual activity, they can freeze the accounts and ask for a please explain. They're more concerned with ALM than sex work but they can pass information to the ATO. The ATO now passes data to Border Force.

Nothing can be done once the money is outside Australia.

If the ATO and Immigration find out, it can lead to deportation and entry bans.

[AHLUNGOR]

Don’t know if all the working holiday people are given or must apply a tax file number as conditional to their visa?

Once they have the TFN, the government can track if they are working and paying tax via Single Touch Payroll on a weekly basis. How good and how closely will the ATO and immigration will work on that is the millions dollars question .

Like someone had pointed out earlier, have you seen any WL or ML ever pay tax ? And more importantly, would the massage shop or FS place come to the party?

The most common cases would be they are just here on a short term, work their butts off and pay no tax or like many of the student visa, get a casual job in cafe or restaurant for a day or two but working full time plus in the other industry .

Plenty of other ways to get around the system too. Cash is King though .

Cheers

[GoldfishMan]

but how does that work here? She makes cash deposits into an overseas bank account, won't her country of origin tax her on that rather than the Australian government?

I know the ATO will see the money move out of Australia but what's the most they can do? They can kick her out but once the money is overseas they can't touch it?

They can move money between borders and leave no trace, it ends up as cash in from one country, cash out at the other country.
There are operators that will facilitate this. You give me $100 cash here, I get my affiliate to pay your "receiver" $90 cash at the destination country through a simple untraceable phone call. Voila.

[tpol]

but how does that work here? She makes cash deposits into an overseas bank account, won't her country of origin tax her on that rather than the Australian government?

I know the ATO will see the money move out of Australia but what's the most they can do? They can kick her out but once the money is overseas they can't touch it?
I Believe a financial institution only reports anything over $10k.

They have records of smaller amounts but are not required to inform the ato

So really, the ato won't know if it's led than $10k unless they audit the person

[aussiegaigin]

Yes, as long as you pay tax.
How many WLs you know pay tax?

I know a girl who's account has frozen by her bank because of too many cash and PayID deposits.

Cash in hand jobs does not benefit the government.

I've helped girls by transferring their cash to accounts OS via WU.

Working holiday visas are limited to a few Asian countries I think. Taiwan tall and Korea can do it. I don't think Thailand or China are on the list.
Which countries are eligible for Working Holiday Visa?
Apply for the Working Holiday visa (Subclass 417) if you hold a passport from: Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Taiwan and the UK.

As well as large amounts sent overseas, the system also flags multiple small amounts. AUSTRAC/ATO might come knocking on your door.

[andrewv]

A smart girl would do the following:

1. Register a business name with a brand like Sarah's Office Sandwiches. You don't need to be a permanent resident to register a business name. Must use real name.
2. Open a bank account in the business name. Tell the bank she makes and sells sandwiches door-to-door (office to office) and her business location is her home (no need to have commercial premises)
3. this way, when the bank sees lots of cash deposits, it will look legit.
4. Declare only around 25% of the bank deposits as her net income before tax. The remainder would be considered business expenses (cost of sandwich ingredients and travel, etc.)

As other punters have written, every bank is super-sensitive about seeing cash deposits today. They "debank" hundreds of clients every month. This word debank is now common.

[andrewv]

The ATO gets a copy of every bank deposit and withdrawal everyone makes. It has been like that for many years.
They use what is called "Big Data Analysis" to parse millions of records to look for patterns, and also pick random tax payers to audit.

The ATO gets a lot of other data, including every new car registration detail (you might get a "please explain your source of income to purchase a brand new $134,000 BMW in your name".
It also gets data from airlines, shipping container handling companies... etc.

ATO often does income analysis of various professions. For example, they might hire armies of data collectors to hand outside hairdressing salons and count how many customers walk in and out, and then they model expected revenue by using the hairdressers' price lists, plus interview hairdressers who work in salons.

For every industry, the ATO keeps updated ranges of income. And when these professions submit the annual returns, anything outside the ranges is investigated further.

Over 1,200 professions are constantly reviewed.

[tpol]

I can't find information regarding that. The ato gets reported on income earnings such as interest.

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/commitments-and-reporting/in-detail/privacy-and-information-gathering/how-we-use-data-matching

Austrac gets reports on all overseas transactions over 10k
https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/core-guidance/reporting/transactions-10000-or-more-ttrs/reporting-multiple-cash-transactions

[JJBlows]

I can't find information regarding that. The ato gets reported on income earnings such as interest.

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/commitments-and-reporting/in-detail/privacy-and-information-gathering/how-we-use-data-matching

Austrac gets reports on all overseas transactions over 10k
https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/core-guidance/reporting/transactions-10000-or-more-ttrs/reporting-multiple-cash-transactions

And all gold (precious metals) purchases as well, but it would be naive to think Austrac doesn't see all money transfers outside of Australia

[Riff888]

I can't find information regarding that. The ato gets reported on income earnings such as interest.

https://www.ato.gov.au/about-ato/commitments-and-reporting/in-detail/privacy-and-information-gathering/how-we-use-data-matching

Austrac gets reports on all overseas transactions over 10k
https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/core-guidance/reporting/transactions-10000-or-more-ttrs/reporting-multiple-cash-transactions
It's not only transactions $10k and over.
People know about that.

Banks keep track of anything unusual.

https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/core-guidance/amlctf-programs/transaction-monitoring

[hornedbeast]

It's our right to use cash. Fk government.

[Prometheus_haha]

Don’t know if all the working holiday people are given or must apply a tax file number as conditional to their visa?

Once they have the TFN, the government can track if they are working and paying tax via Single Touch Payroll on a weekly basis. How good and how closely will the ATO and immigration will work on that is the millions dollars question .

Like someone had pointed out earlier, have you seen any WL or ML ever pay tax ? And more importantly, would the massage shop or FS place come to the party?

The most common cases would be they are just here on a short term, work their butts off and pay no tax or like many of the student visa, get a casual job in cafe or restaurant for a day or two but working full time plus in the other industry .

Plenty of other ways to get around the system too. Cash is King though .

Cheers

I doubt WLs have TFNs...

[andrewv]

Anyone can apply for a TFN.
Not restricted to visa conditions.

[spanner]

I doubt that these recent flood of japanese girls are on working holiday visa. Probably working illegally on a tourist visa.

Don’t the sex workers here need to register and do regular std tests?

[tezzaman18]

As indicated by Aussiegaigin ........

Whilst most girls from the EU can apply for working Holiday visas (subclass 417), only the girls from Japan & Hong Kong are eligible for this category of visa. Explains the influx and the number of them that are here on short stay.

[GoldfishMan]

As indicated by Aussiegaigin ........

Whilst most girls from the EU can apply for working Holiday visas (subclass 417), only the girls from Japan & Hong Kong are eligible for this category of visa. Explains the influx and the number of them that are here on short stay.

That's a paradox there. The working holiday visas are valid for up to 12 months, thereby making it not necessary for the holders to cum and go and cum like the short-stay girls do. They can just stay in Australia and keep working a WL job for 12 months straight.

It's the other way around. All of the short-stay girls are working on their regular tourist visas. Those are granted usually for only 3 month stays.