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Alexander911
17-12-2024, 10:29 AM
Hi guys,

I’ve been punting for the last 10 years and have very high standards. I’m only attracted to very fit girls. I also like skinny but they have to have a nice peachy round bum and boobs of course are always a bonus.

These are my gems so far. Please share yours if you have any.

Eva- fireflies by Jesse. She doesn’t have boobs but her body is hot AF. She is listed as massage only but offers fulls service to who she wants. Covered BJ only. Her bum is incredible!

Jane- ryde massage. Looks like a top model and incredibly fun! Hot body and full service on offer.

Ruby- broadway massage. She’s a little pocket rocket. Super fit, loves is hard abs you can bend her in all directions. Full service on offer.


Jenny- always 18 massage. She must be mid thirties now but still has a great body and beautiful pussy. Fake size cs and full service on offer.

Natalie- Sydney girl massage. She’s a bit more floppy than her photos but still great body and full service on offer. First time is a bit cold but then warms up. Full service on offer.

Sofia- north strathfield. A stunner. Full service on offer. She always covers the light and makes the room very dark (I love to see the action happening) but other than that an amazing experience.

Jessica- Saigon princess. This place is a shit hole but Jessica is super nice and does an incredible pussy slide. Only covered blowjob on offer.

Rina- 6 poplar street. Japanese. Super chatty and cool. Full service on offer and just generally a really refreshing experience.

Beena- Sydney girl massage. This is Michelle’s sister. Super fit and fun. Full service on offer.

Girls I want to try:
Alice or yaya at mac- Angela won’t reply to my messages so who knows if I will.

Star- pyrmont massage.

Now it’s your turn. Thanks lads

mrblack
17-12-2024, 03:16 PM
Great list and agree with most

Kasumi from 42G should be on the list - sadly moved on a couple of years ago and can’t find her

Jessie from Leabons is awesome but very small / great for gymnastic positions ��

Riggers
17-12-2024, 03:30 PM
Would have to agree that beena is lovely. Her cbj is awesome

Ella from 200S I think might tickle your fancy. Unsure if she is still there, goes by other names in other shops. Smoking hot

Zoobender
17-12-2024, 03:39 PM
Natsumi from N5M has a good body and so so face. But service has changed to be very vanilla

stallionmachine123
17-12-2024, 04:03 PM
Any photos of Beena could not find? Also Milin from SBM is fit as hell.

mrblack
17-12-2024, 07:33 PM
Ella is super hot from SBM however limited services unfortunately but she is stunning

mylovelypenis
18-12-2024, 08:18 AM
Meena from Savann has a perfect body.

mylovelypenis
18-12-2024, 08:22 AM
Ella from 102 Roseville on Mondays is a thai spinner with a perfect body

94wreckers
18-12-2024, 08:48 AM
Thai Helen at Panja has fit kickboxer body
Thai Millin at SBM has a fit model body
Chinese Jojo at Summerville has an amazing gym body
HK/Jap Yomiko at SBM very skinny fit body, nice abs on her
Jolie at 107 Chill is kinda fit, give her a go and tell us what you think
Yaya at 6 Poplar/World Square has a cute fit body with bolt ons


if I come across more ill drop them in the thread

pound4pound
18-12-2024, 09:03 AM
Totally agreed. Ella is hot.

Itskens112
19-12-2024, 04:02 AM
I think we like the same quality in girls!

Wow, Eva's pics look 10/10! Does her face match the body?



Hi guys,

I’ve been punting for the last 10 years and have very high standards. I’m only attracted to very fit girls. I also like skinny but they have to have a nice peachy round bum and boobs of course are always a bonus.

These are my gems so far. Please share yours if you have any.

Eva- fireflies by Jesse. She doesn’t have boobs but her body is hot AF. She is listed as massage only but offers fulls service to who she wants. Covered BJ only. Her bum is incredible!

Jane- ryde massage. Looks like a top model and incredibly fun! Hot body and full service on offer.

Ruby- broadway massage. She’s a little pocket rocket. Super fit, loves is hard abs you can bend her in all directions. Full service on offer.


Jenny- always 18 massage. She must be mid thirties now but still has a great body and beautiful pussy. Fake size cs and full service on offer.

Natalie- Sydney girl massage. She’s a bit more floppy than her photos but still great body and full service on offer. First time is a bit cold but then warms up. Full service on offer.

Sofia- north strathfield. A stunner. Full service on offer. She always covers the light and makes the room very dark (I love to see the action happening) but other than that an amazing experience.

Jessica- Saigon princess. This place is a shit hole but Jessica is super nice and does an incredible pussy slide. Only covered blowjob on offer.

Rina- 6 poplar street. Japanese. Super chatty and cool. Full service on offer and just generally a really refreshing experience.

Beena- Sydney girl massage. This is Michelle’s sister. Super fit and fun. Full service on offer.

Girls I want to try:
Alice or yaya at mac- Angela won’t reply to my messages so who knows if I will.

Star- pyrmont massage.

Now it’s your turn. Thanks lads

BPunter76
19-12-2024, 07:57 AM
Natsumi from N5M has a good body and so so face. But service has changed to be very vanilla
Yes Natsumi was awesome, I haven't been back since she stopped offering BBBJ though, it's a shame cause she was a nice little punt.

woods23
19-12-2024, 12:45 PM
For Thai- Nancy at West ryde no 4 Graf avenue . Ally at 200 was very good.. but she has put on some weight last timei saw her ( 3 to 4 months ago)

For Chinses is rare you can find a fit chinses - Sunflower masssge (Also Nana SGM) Hk petite girl Giana. Flat stomach maybe some abs , very sexy ( if I can remember she have two line vertical beside her abs.) Good ass too. I thought she was a Thai girl from behind.

All very nice girl and good services which is a bonus :)

HitNMiss
19-12-2024, 02:53 PM
Hi guys,

I’ve been punting for the last 10 years and have very high standards. I’m only attracted to very fit girls. I also like skinny but they have to have a nice peachy round bum and boobs of course are always a bonus.

These are my gems so far. Please share yours if you have any.

Eva- fireflies by Jesse. She doesn’t have boobs but her body is hot AF. She is listed as massage only but offers fulls service to who she wants. Covered BJ only. Her bum is incredible!

Jane- ryde massage. Looks like a top model and incredibly fun! Hot body and full service on offer.

Ruby- broadway massage. She’s a little pocket rocket. Super fit, loves is hard abs you can bend her in all directions. Full service on offer.


Jenny- always 18 massage. She must be mid thirties now but still has a great body and beautiful pussy. Fake size cs and full service on offer.

Natalie- Sydney girl massage. She’s a bit more floppy than her photos but still great body and full service on offer. First time is a bit cold but then warms up. Full service on offer.

Sofia- north strathfield. A stunner. Full service on offer. She always covers the light and makes the room very dark (I love to see the action happening) but other than that an amazing experience.

Jessica- Saigon princess. This place is a shit hole but Jessica is super nice and does an incredible pussy slide. Only covered blowjob on offer.

Rina- 6 poplar street. Japanese. Super chatty and cool. Full service on offer and just generally a really refreshing experience.

Beena- Sydney girl massage. This is Michelle’s sister. Super fit and fun. Full service on offer.

Girls I want to try:
Alice or yaya at mac- Angela won’t reply to my messages so who knows if I will.

Star- pyrmont massage.

Now it’s your turn. Thanks lads

You have to try Star , absolute killer body (trains at the gym twice a day ) . Great service to .

Alexander911
20-12-2024, 08:58 PM
I think we like the same quality in girls!



Wow, Eva's pics look 10/10! Does her face match the body?

Her face doesn’t quite match but she has amazing energy and honestly it doesn’t matter 😜

JJBlows
20-12-2024, 09:03 PM
Viet Emma from 42G, went skinny dipping and i still remember the moon light glistening off her wet gym body as she walked out of the surf.

trip
20-12-2024, 09:37 PM
Bruh AI - 6 poplar!!! That face and bod. A bit curvy but fit af imo

Nelly69
20-12-2024, 10:19 PM
Actually, Mandy from 161 Chatswood is a hottie! Tall and skinny with a banging body. Bit weird sometimes, I spent 10 mins fingering her one session and she had a smelly pussy that day so didn't go DATY on her.

But I think she has good abs and ass.

I think so also works at SBM

rubit moore
21-12-2024, 08:51 AM
Viet Emma from 42G, went skinny dipping and i still remember the moon light glistening off her wet gym body as she walked out of the surf.

Mate, that’s the real deal. Some proper raw intelligence gathered! So Charlie DOES surf then?!:smile:

JJBlows
21-12-2024, 11:17 AM
Mate, that’s the real deal. Some proper raw intelligence gathered! So Charlie DOES surf then?!:smile:

https://web.archive.org/web/20231026103321/https://thenightshade.com.au/media/uploads/V_Emma_3.jpg

https://web.archive.org/web/20231026103318/https://thenightshade.com.au/media/uploads/V_Emma_2.jpg

Yea this is her, toned as fuck.

rubit moore
21-12-2024, 11:33 AM
https://web.archive.org/web/20231026103321/https://thenightshade.com.au/media/uploads/V_Emma_3.jpg

https://web.archive.org/web/20231026103318/https://thenightshade.com.au/media/uploads/V_Emma_2.jpg

Yea this is her, toned as fuck.

Fuck man, that arched back and that arse.

"Viet Emma from 42G, went skinny dipping and i still remember the moon light glistening off her wet gym body as she walked out of the surf.”

When you know you’ve got game; none of this bullshit ’she let me cuddle her for 15mins’ bullshit dweeb type posts! Bet you smashed the granny out of it that night! Haha.

mrblack
27-12-2024, 10:21 AM
Ella from SBM no longer working 😔

Shado
27-12-2024, 01:16 PM
You reap what you sow... And as any expat will tell you, their country, their rules...

So your mate MyBadWilly22 or whatever his name is was liquidated(banned) for doing what? Posting????? What rules did he break?

I’d like to know the total number of banned members on this site. Pretty much every one gets banned… correct!

Real punters with real accounts like myself get banned. Only the fake are left…

New Year’s resolution

Not coming back

jackdaniels
28-12-2024, 07:40 AM
Ella from SBM no longer working ��

Think she works at Chilli shop in Nth Strathfield

Roydemeo
28-12-2024, 09:21 AM
I wonder how many of you punters are out of shape fat flabby poor performing slobs?

More than 90 % of you I would say!

Unlike you Vinny with 5+ wl’s hanging off each arm as you drive over the harbour bridge in your Aventador

94wreckers
28-12-2024, 01:47 PM
I wonder how many of you punters are out of shape fat flabby poor performing slobs?

More than 90 % of you I would say!

you sure know how to contribute to the forum don't you.
If a man has a certain taste and hes paying for it then should he not get to choose ? feel like chicken go to KFC, feel like a burger go to hungry jacks, feel like a ML/WL with a fit body go to this section of the forum.


Anyway, back on topic, Jap Momoko from SGM has a super fit model body. Nice toned abs etc. not exactly model face looking though

uglyphil
28-12-2024, 01:52 PM
Apologies for the lack of knowledge.

What is SGM?

94wreckers
30-12-2024, 10:18 AM
Apologies for the lack of knowledge.

What is SGM?

Sydney Girl Massage 110 Cathedral Street Woolloomooloo

Thelickers
30-12-2024, 10:37 AM
I reckon the JxC Mei does not look slim but she is tall and good in service. Well worth to pay a visit.
But she is hard to book in general

uglyphil
30-12-2024, 10:58 AM
Thank you very much :)

11Bravo
30-12-2024, 08:48 PM
Yep, you can blame the moderators and their power trip. At present they’re allowing 8% of my posts through. Anyway there are other places where I post my reviews. Reviews that are not related to advertisers here.

If I really wanted to I could open up numerous other accounts but why bother? I’d only get stifled by some unknown random moderator whose only power in life where they have any control is this forum.

“Hey ma I dun good on da forum today, only let one post through!”
You reap what you sow... And as any expat will tell you, their country, their rules...

jake_h
03-01-2025, 10:17 PM
Akina from Sakura 57 looks ripped.
https://www.surryhillsbrothel.com.au/project/akina-japan-2/

jfoldbar
04-01-2025, 06:49 AM
Akina from Sakura 57 looks ripped.
https://www.surryhillsbrothel.com.au/project/akina-japan-2/

she certainly does. though this joint is the king of fake pics.

94wreckers
28-01-2025, 12:22 PM
she certainly does. though this joint is the king of fake pics.

can confirm that the body is 95% accurate but the face has been edited heavily. Still cute though. decent session IMHO

MindTheGap
02-02-2025, 06:36 PM
Hi guys,

I’ve been punting for the last 10 years and have very high standards. I’m only attracted to very fit girls. I also like skinny but they have to have a nice peachy round bum and boobs of course are always a bonus.

These are my gems so far. Please share yours if you have any.

Eva- fireflies by Jesse. She doesn’t have boobs but her body is hot AF. She is listed as massage only but offers fulls service to who she wants. Covered BJ only. Her bum is incredible!

Jane- ryde massage. Looks like a top model and incredibly fun! Hot body and full service on offer.

Ruby- broadway massage. She’s a little pocket rocket. Super fit, loves is hard abs you can bend her in all directions. Full service on offer.


Jenny- always 18 massage. She must be mid thirties now but still has a great body and beautiful pussy. Fake size cs and full service on offer.

Natalie- Sydney girl massage. She’s a bit more floppy than her photos but still great body and full service on offer. First time is a bit cold but then warms up. Full service on offer.

Sofia- north strathfield. A stunner. Full service on offer. She always covers the light and makes the room very dark (I love to see the action happening) but other than that an amazing experience.

Jessica- Saigon princess. This place is a shit hole but Jessica is super nice and does an incredible pussy slide. Only covered blowjob on offer.

Rina- 6 poplar street. Japanese. Super chatty and cool. Full service on offer and just generally a really refreshing experience.

Beena- Sydney girl massage. This is Michelle’s sister. Super fit and fun. Full service on offer.

Girls I want to try:
Alice or yaya at mac- Angela won’t reply to my messages so who knows if I will.

Star- pyrmont massage.

Now it’s your turn. Thanks lads

Wow this is so good thank you. New to shops and this is exactly my type of girls

Kiki kong
06-02-2025, 11:04 AM
I think we like the same quality in girls!

Wow, Eva's pics look 10/10! Does her face match the body?

Eva has a cute face. Great bod smallish boobs and lovely curves and bum. Woof

Kiki kong
06-02-2025, 11:06 AM
Hi guys,

I’ve been punting for the last 10 years and have very high standards. I’m only attracted to very fit girls. I also like skinny but they have to have a nice peachy round bum and boobs of course are always a bonus.

These are my gems so far. Please share yours if you have any.

Eva- fireflies by Jesse. She doesn’t have boobs but her body is hot AF. She is listed as massage only but offers fulls service to who she wants. Covered BJ only. Her bum is incredible!

Jane- ryde massage. Looks like a top model and incredibly fun! Hot body and full service on offer.

Ruby- broadway massage. She’s a little pocket rocket. Super fit, loves is hard abs you can bend her in all directions. Full service on offer.


Jenny- always 18 massage. She must be mid thirties now but still has a great body and beautiful pussy. Fake size cs and full service on offer.

Natalie- Sydney girl massage. She’s a bit more floppy than her photos but still great body and full service on offer. First time is a bit cold but then warms up. Full service on offer.

Sofia- north strathfield. A stunner. Full service on offer. She always covers the light and makes the room very dark (I love to see the action happening) but other than that an amazing experience.

Jessica- Saigon princess. This place is a shit hole but Jessica is super nice and does an incredible pussy slide. Only covered blowjob on offer.

Rina- 6 poplar street. Japanese. Super chatty and cool. Full service on offer and just generally a really refreshing experience.

Beena- Sydney girl massage. This is Michelle’s sister. Super fit and fun. Full service on offer.

Girls I want to try:
Alice or yaya at mac- Angela won’t reply to my messages so who knows if I will.

Star- pyrmont massage.

Now it’s your turn. Thanks lads

You can see Yaya also at 6 Poplar. Easier to book than Angela's imo

Asiandaddy
06-02-2025, 02:18 PM
Eva has a cute face. Great bod smallish boobs and lovely curves and bum. Woof

Too bad she left the industry. She got a full office job or something like that. Great girl.

mrblack
14-02-2025, 11:49 PM
Heard Eva might be back ? Anyone heard ? Possibly Sylvania area ?

blackpearl
15-02-2025, 02:51 AM
can confirm that the body is 95% accurate but the face has been edited heavily. Still cute though. decent session IMHO
She looks like Karina , who used to work at M5 and before that at Ginza. Can anyone confirm ?

94wreckers
16-02-2025, 10:14 AM
She looks like Karina , who used to work at M5 and before that at Ginza. Can anyone confirm ?

different person, but agreed similar look

trampslikeus55
16-02-2025, 04:28 PM
Think she works at Chilli shop in Nth Strathfield
Different ladies 👍

Mirko
17-02-2025, 02:39 PM
Does anyone know if Milin from Sydney baby massage is Sofia from 227 north straftfield massage? I read that it may be the same ml.

94wreckers
18-02-2025, 04:35 PM
Does anyone know if Milin from Sydney baby massage is Sofia from 227 north straftfield massage? I read that it may be the same ml.

definitely different people. Dont even look the same lol. Both are very good girls. Sofia is more a shy type if thats your thing

Mirko
18-02-2025, 05:11 PM
Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Totcd
07-03-2025, 10:04 AM
Angela at Relaxo massage Canley Vale is extremely fit.
https://www.locanto.com.au/sydney/ID_7012653487/Canley-Vale-Relaxo-Massage.html by

Rekindling2234
08-03-2025, 09:00 AM
Heard Eva might be back ? Anyone heard ? Possibly Sylvania area ?

Sylvania Asian massage? That is the only place in the shire with hot girls

Jack Hammer
08-03-2025, 09:24 AM
Think she works at Chilli shop in Nth Strathfield

Thanks for this Jack, can anyone confirm if Ella is working at Chilli Shop and what her name is there? Hottest ML ever!!!

94wreckers
09-03-2025, 08:22 AM
Angela at Relaxo massage Canley Vale is extremely fit.
https://www.locanto.com.au/sydney/ID_7012653487/Canley-Vale-Relaxo-Massage.html by

have you done a session with her ? is the photo real, looks kinda fake. Did she have abs ?

AusBargainPussy
09-03-2025, 07:00 PM
Ahhhh this looks like a nice thread and glad i found it

looks like a great place to start for someone just starting out and also into athletic bods and good looking stunners

Abracadabra
09-03-2025, 09:30 PM
K J Anna from Ginza E late last year gets my vote ~ at least in recent times.

Saucenoodle
10-03-2025, 07:00 PM
Very athletic looking, heads up.

94wreckers
11-03-2025, 05:14 PM
K J Anna from Ginza E late last year gets my vote ~ at least in recent times.

she must be gone now

Abracadabra
11-03-2025, 06:40 PM
she must be gone now

She finished in late Dec 24 but recall she planned to return....

trampslikeus55
11-03-2025, 10:24 PM
Selena NS107. Chinese, probably early 30's. Pretty without being stunning. Newly refurbished C cup. Works out and legit level chinese massage. Confident young woman now and can take you where you want to go. Also Miya Lily's Massage Marrickville 😎

carym
13-03-2025, 11:05 PM
Jojo at 985 Victoria Rd West Ryde. Aka Dodo at 14 Burwood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

94wreckers
15-03-2025, 11:54 AM
Jojo at 985 Victoria Rd West Ryde. Aka Dodo at 14 Burwood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

also Jojo at 200 Summerville. She used to bodybuild but now just gym for maintenance

westsydneypunter
15-03-2025, 06:19 PM
POST DELETED - POST DELETED

Pattyherb
15-03-2025, 07:11 PM
Selena NS107. Chinese, probably early 30's. Pretty without being stunning. Newly refurbished C cup. Works out and legit level chinese massage. Confident young woman now and can take you where you want to go. Also Miya Lily's Massage Marrickville ��

I can vouch for miya, banging body!

Totcd
12-04-2025, 03:12 PM
have you done a session with her ? is the photo real, looks kinda fake. Did she have abs ?

Photos are surprisingly real. Very fit with abs

Mr Nice
13-04-2025, 09:07 PM
Yes Ella is still on the roster at North Strathfield. Very pretty young girl with a smoking hot body. No FS offered to me on 2 visits. Anyone else have any luck?

jiminy
13-04-2025, 09:54 PM
Yes Ella is still on the roster at North Strathfield. Very pretty young girl with a smoking hot body. No FS offered to me on 2 visits. Anyone else have any luck?

Yes. Had a FS session with her, but she felt quite starfish. Haven’t returned to her tbh. Think Jolie is much better for a session but she costs a pretty penny…

Mr Nice
14-04-2025, 12:06 AM
You are a lucky man on both accounts. Jolie offered FS at 300 once to me. Too much for this punter but I was tempted as fuck. Thanks for the Ella tip.

jiminy
14-04-2025, 01:06 AM
You are a lucky man on both accounts. Jolie offered FS at 300 once to me. Too much for this punter but I was tempted as fuck. Thanks for the Ella tip.

Nice to know you go to this shop too. Have you seen Tiffany? Eager to try but no reviews. Also, other girls that I like at this shop are Natalie (body not as great as others but something sexy about her), and Yaya (gives the best blowjob I’ve had).

Mr Nice
14-04-2025, 01:36 AM
I had a great session with Natalie 2 weeks ago. I wrote an AR for it a few days back. I will post a link. Heading to see Tiffany tomorrow if time allows. Anna recommended her and her photos look hot

fted
14-04-2025, 10:51 AM
Yes. Had a FS session with her, but she felt quite starfish. Haven’t returned to her tbh. Think Jolie is much better for a session but she costs a pretty penny…

Agree Jolie is hotter and a much better fuck than Ella if you have the $$$.

Mr Nice
14-04-2025, 02:55 PM
Are you talking about 107 Chill shop?

Yes Ella was rostered on yesterday

Mr Nice
15-04-2025, 10:51 PM
Jiminy I had a session with Tiffany at North Strathfield yesterday. I left you a private message and will try write up an AR over the weekend

carym
21-04-2025, 11:14 AM
also Jojo at 200 Summerville. She used to bodybuild but now just gym for maintenance

Are you saying Jojo at 985 West Ryde / Dodo at Burwood 14, is also the same Jojo at Summerville? Just checking...

Jack Hammer
21-04-2025, 04:29 PM
Is the Ella that works at Chill the same Ella that used to work at SBM?

bleekpit
22-04-2025, 01:55 PM
Is the Ella that works at Chill the same Ella that used to work at SBM?

Nope. Different girl. Ella from SBM seems to no longer be in industry.

pound4pound
22-04-2025, 06:17 PM
Nope. Different girl. Ella from SBM seems to no longer be in industry.

Ella owns Sunshine Massage Narellan.

justincase
22-04-2025, 09:17 PM
Ella owns Sunshine Massage Narellan.

The shop presents as new and is immaculate. I happened to be down that way and called in.

I can recommend Milky.

Best Thai body I’ve seen in a while, very tight.

Dresses sedately but when she takes her clothes off she has a very impressive body, lovely skin and a lovely personality to match. Perky breasts too if you like that kinda thing, doesn’t need a bra except for modesty, add a few nice select tatts, the one on her arse cheek I like especially. Lovely pussy, picture perfect.

She’s the kinda girl who could go strutting around nude, trim, taut and terrific at some hedonist’s resort. Lovely hair, beautiful face and a body built for pleasure.

Anyone else tried her?

94wreckers
23-04-2025, 07:21 AM
Are you saying Jojo at 985 West Ryde / Dodo at Burwood 14, is also the same Jojo at Summerville? Just checking...

yes correct. ive seen her at all 3 shops

94wreckers
23-04-2025, 07:27 AM
The shop presents as new and is immaculate. I happened to be down that way and called in.

I can recommend Milky.

Best Thai body I’ve seen in a while, very tight.

Dresses sedately but when she takes her clothes off she has a very impressive body, lovely skin and a lovely personality to match. Perky breasts too if you like that kinda thing, doesn’t need a bra except for modesty, add a few nice select tatts, the one on her arse cheek I like especially. Lovely pussy, picture perfect.

She’s the kinda girl who could go strutting around nude, trim, taut and terrific at some hedonist’s resort. Lovely hair, beautiful face and a body built for pleasure.

Anyone else tried her?

it says closed for reno's. I will have to try when they re-open

Supersmashbros
23-04-2025, 10:48 AM
T Milin from Paramatta Blossom. I'm due for another session with her. Bringing extra cash. Wish me luck lol

Keeping Up
23-04-2025, 06:14 PM
Ella owns Sunshine Massage Narellan.

Well yesterday they posted a message on their WeChat that says the shop has been maliciously burnt down and they are out of business now. Upset competition maybe?