Hong Kong pro-democracy protests paralysed the city !

[AHLUNGOR]

How did it all go so wrong ??


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928183549-hongkong-protests-sept-28-09-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140929074712-hong-kong-monday-crowd-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140929104244-hong-kong-monday-2-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140929104107-hong-kong-monday-1-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928111421-hong-kong-protests-28-sept-02-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928142408-hong-kong-running-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928110447-hong-kong-umbrellas-police-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928132400-hong-kong-tear-night-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928120247-hong-kong-tear-gas-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140928142639-hong-kong-dispersal-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[weedinator]

I should not stick my nose in this .... but I still need 50 posts.

Pressure from china to stop the protests ?

[mak695]

Looks like another group of students not having anything else to do but cause trouble. Seems theres nothing to do at uni these days but protest.

[AHLUNGOR]

I should not stick my nose in this .... but I still need 50 posts.

Pressure from china to stop the protests ?


Thanks for your reply brother weedinator,

This whole thing started as a peaceful protest: Occupying Central

What the Hong Kong people want is the right to select their own candidates for the first general election in 2017 - rather than just voting for the selected candidates vetted by the Chinese Government !!

[harmsup_jai]

I think this protest is needed as Last few times I've been to Hong Kong the overall societ and feel of Hong Kong has gone down hill.

Beijing is obviously just bending rules and laws to benefit the PRC people.

[weedinator]

Don't get me wrong mate, I am pro honkies.


Thanks for your reply brother weedinator,

This whole thing started as a peaceful protest: Occupying Central

What the Hong Kong people want is the right to select their own candidates for the first general election in 2017 - rather than just voting for the selected candidates vetted by the Chinese Government !!

[dohdoe]

Can't blame them. There's a lot of mainland chinese resentment going around in asia.

This seems like its just the start.

[CunningLinguist]

Alot of HKers bought property in places like Australia so they can get out if things turn to shit ...

[AHLUNGOR]

because the students are being idiots, expecting instant democracy....

HK, under british rule, was NEVER a democracy.... They have, under Basic Law been given a glidepath towards democracy...

I'm here in HK now, and it's all quitened down now...

I understand there are fears on both sides, but it was stupid of the students to try and break into government property and not to be met with force to evict them.... THAT's actually how it started........

International media is being selective with the truth of what they are reporting. I've seen a lot of whats really happening..... a bit diferent


Thanks brother for your neutral and on the spot comments!

I was listening to the HK radio this morning to get a better pictures from both sides ! There are different bands of protesters , some are innocent like the Uni students and some are well funded and well organised, who may or may not have some ulterior motives or different hidden agenda!

Some of the very provocative slogans they were using were baiting and challenging the government which in turn was a direct challenge to Beijing !

Like calling for the sacking of the CEO CY Leung and said they won't leave unless they are confronted by the People's Liberation Army - and we all knew what happened last time when the Army got involved with student protesters ! That's a never never !

[kln]

I personally understand the reason those uni students protesting about, it's about the right to choose.

I think Beijing should lighten up and understand the wishes of people, but anyway, this reminds me of an old song, this is a song by beyond called "cheung seng".

It means "great wall of china" it was banned back in early 90's, the song is a response of what happened 1-2 years back. I think ahlongor knows this song very well....

[AHLUNGOR]

I personally understand the reason those uni students protesting about, it's about the right to choose.

I think Beijing should lighten up and understand the wishes of people, but anyway, this reminds me of an old song, this is a song by beyond called "cheung seng".

It means "great wall of china" it was banned back in early 90's, the song is a response of what happened 1-2 years back. I think ahlongor knows this song very well....


Yes，that was a good song !

But the protestors this time was singing a different song from Beyond: The Glorious Days !

光輝歲月！

[kln]

光輝歲月！

Haven't watch any videos yet, but this is a good one. Not only a good song, but very appropriate for this "occasion".:cool2:

[sukeong]

Looks like another group of students not having anything else to do but cause trouble. Seems theres nothing to do at uni these days but protest.

Don't really care about hk. The longer it drags on the worse it is for hk economy. They are sensing their sense of superiority over mainland is getting eroded day by day. And what they are doing will accelerate that. I hope the students can bear the consequences of their action cuz the mainland govt will just stand back and let this drag on to the detriment of the rest of hk. I don't have any preference over either side but after this I'm siding with mainland. Hk don't have to pay taxes already and never had any democracy under colonial rule but now the students want to stir up shit. Well u reap what u sow then.

[AHLUNGOR]

Haven't watch any videos yet, but this is a good one. Not only a good song, but very appropriate for this "occasion".:cool2:

Have you seen the MTV of Anita Mui singing 血染的風采？

[kln]

Have you seen the MTV of Anita Mui singing 血染的風采？

nope,will have a look in a moment, haven't listen to her song for a while...

[AHLUNGOR]

nope,will have a look in a moment, haven't listen to her song for a while...


Here is the link for you brother, a timely reminder of the Tienanmen Square incident !


梅艷芳 血染的風采


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4VCyXguSU


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/tankman/art/bigphoto.jpg

[AHLUNGOR]

Yes，that was a good song !

But the protestors this time was singing a different song from Beyond: The Glorious Days !

光輝歲月！


On a more positive note, let's enjoy this wonderful song from Wong Ka Kui (黃家駒; 10 June 1962 – 30 June 1993) he was such a talent !!

Beyond : 光輝歲月

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwSQQoWqeBs

[harmony]

If you live in China, you live with corrupted government. And too many people. And pollution.
Thats it. Period. End of it. This is not the West, where democracy means you can change things with protests.

Communism and democracy different systems
Corruption makes communists want to keep the corrupt system
Recent examples of corruptions with Chinese officials just sees them run to Melbourne to live, after they get caught lol !

HK protesters are wasting their time
Like trying to step on a dragons tail
If you do that, the story only will end in one way

My 2 cents

[AHLUNGOR]

If you live in China, you live with corrupted government. And too many people. And pollution.
Thats it. Period. End of it. This is not the West, where democracy means you can change things with protests.

Communism and democracy different systems
Corruption makes communists want to keep the corrupt system
Recent examples of corruptions with Chinese officials just sees them run to Melbourne to live, after they get caught lol !

HK protesters are wasting their time
Like trying to step on a dragons tail
If you do that, the story only will end in one way

My 2 cents



Hey buddy, fair enough comments, but let's not make it sounds like corruption is a "Made in China" special product ! it's everywhere mate, just look at the NSW State Parliament !! and many of the Union officials. And most people on Clive Palmer's speed dials...................lol

And further West, if the Iraqi and Assad governments were not so corrupted, do you think the ISIS has any chance to become what they are today?

I think the next chapter in Hong Kong will be the resignation of the CEO, and then things will all calm down, mark my words.................haha


Cheers

:anger:

[harmony]

Brother, I never imply corruption is only in China
Corruption exists where there are human beings ! (NSW/Queensland/Victoria/WA/NT/TAS/America,Nth,Sth/Asia,India,Sri Lanka/Europe/North Pole, South Pole,Antarctica
Did I miss anyplace?

My point is that there is a particular nastiness about corruption in nondemocratic countries. Hard to get rid of corrupt officials. No accountability

At least in NSW we could vote out the state Labor goverment (Obeid, Tripodi, etc etc), and we could vote out the Liberal goverment if they become very unpopular

All protests in China is going to get you is Lifelong Government Surveillance and possibly have your passport cancelled
Step on the dragons tail and you need to wear your fireproof vest

[AHLUNGOR]

Brother, I never imply corruption is only in China
Corruption exists where there are human beings ! (NSW/Queensland/Victoria/WA/NT/TAS/America,Nth,Sth/Asia,India,Sri Lanka/Europe/North Pole, South Pole,Antarctica
Did I miss anyplace?

My point is that there is a particular nastiness about corruption in nondemocratic countries. Hard to get rid of corrupt officials. No accountability

At least in NSW we could vote out the state Labor goverment (Obeid, Tripodi, etc etc), and we could vote out the Liberal goverment if they become very unpopular

All protests in China is going to get you is Lifelong Government Surveillance and possibly have your passport cancelled
Step on the dragons tail and you need to wear your fireproof vest


OK, first thing first, you did miss out on a lot of places: firstly at home, how about SA and ACT................lol

Then the Middle East, all of Russia and the former USSR, Mogolia etc. and a few more sub-continent countries. and Let's not forget our neighbour/cousins the Kiwis and all the South Pacific and the African continent !

You said: At least in NSW we could vote out the state Labor goverment (Obeid, Tripodi, etc etc) - they do much better in China, for the corrupted officials they usually get a bullet !


But all you said was fine by me, just pulling your legs................haha

Cheers

:smile:

[kln]

Here is the link for you brother, a timely reminder of the Tienanmen Square incident !


梅艷芳 血染的風采


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4VCyXguSU


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/tankman/art/bigphoto.jpg

really good song in itself, if the political factor is added in, that really means a lot...thanks for sharing this song, never heard about it, probably it never gets popular due to the words

[kln]

On a more positive note, let's enjoy this wonderful song from Wong Ka Kui (黃家駒; 10 June 1962 – 30 June 1993) he was such a talent !!

Beyond : 光輝歲月

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwSQQoWqeBs




haha, reminds me of my teenage years, those days.....such a shame, he is so talented.

on a side note, "what if" the accident did not happen and we might get some even more powerful music from him as i understand he is a person who likes peace, and speaking about peace....amani

[kln]

I think the next chapter in Hong Kong will be the resignation of the CEO, and then things will all calm down, mark my words.................haha


Cheers

:anger:

just a curious question, do u really think this is going to happen? as an outsider i understand that he is supported by beijing and i really cannot foresee this happening...probably is a good thing for the people but cannot imagine this happening imo....

[dl168]

The girl in pic 4 has white long legs, YUM!!:slobber::slobber::slobber:

[harmony]

Interesting to think what would happen if a group tried to lock down the CBD in Sydney
I have no doubt the police would get to practise their anti - riot procedures
Closing down the CBD for days just wouldnt happen here

[AHLUNGOR]

just a curious question, do u really think this is going to happen? as an outsider i understand that he is supported by beijing and i really cannot foresee this happening...probably is a good thing for the people but cannot imagine this happening imo....


Yeah, I think the Taiwan factor plays a big part in how this situation will end ! The Hong Kong model on its own, is not a big concern for Beijing, but the future of Taiwan returning to China rule will be the ultimate objective. I'm sure all the Taiwanese people will be watching the current HK event with a lot of interest and how Beijing handle this will have a big impact on the road to unification.

I think Beijing will officially continue to support CY Leung but may be quietly tap him on the shoulder so that he will take all the blames and resign - being such an unpopular CEO, then all parties will safe face. The democratic movement in HK will regard that as a big win and will be more willing to talk and accept a modified resolution on the 2017 election and Taiwan will breathe a sight of relief. This is the best case out come, other than that, the HK people will suffer !

Just a thought !

Cheers

:smile:

[AHLUNGOR]

The girl in pic 4 has white long legs, YUM!!:slobber::slobber::slobber:


OK then, you can have some more long legs!! Now pay attention 168 !!


http://www.lollipop.sg/sites/default/files/public/article/images/gallery/201307/1699041.jpg

[AHLUNGOR]

haha, reminds me of my teenage years, those days.....such a shame, he is so talented.

on a side note, "what if" the accident did not happen and we might get some even more powerful music from him as i understand he is a person who likes peace, and speaking about peace....amani



Yes, Wong Ka Kui is a great talent, a peace lover and most of songs he had written would promote peace and love and freedom. If he is still around, I don't know, may be getting too rich and lost his innocent already!

We will never know, but he died very suddenly, it's almost like James Dean and Buddy Holly !!

Cheers

:smile:

[kln]

Yeah, I think the Taiwan factor plays a big part in how this situation will end ! The Hong Kong model on its own, is not a big concern for Beijing, but the future of Taiwan returning to China rule will be the ultimate objective. I'm sure all the Taiwanese people will be watching the current HK event with a lot of interest and how Beijing handle this will have a big impact on the road to unification.

I think Beijing will officially continue to support CY Leung but may be quietly tap him on the shoulder so that he will take all the blames and resign - being such an unpopular CEO, then all parties will safe face. The democratic movement in HK will regard that as a big win and will be more willing to talk and accept a modified resolution on the 2017 election and Taiwan will breathe a sight of relief. This is the best case out come, other than that, the HK people will suffer !

Just a thought !

Cheers

:smile:


Interesting thought as I have not think about Taiwan in this case, however that's a bit optimistic (I think) as personally I cannot foresee that Beijing will change their mind (which I think is better for HK) but anyway I really hope that there is a good outcome from this.

[harmony]

There is no reason why Beijing needs to change its mind. It is accountable to noone in terms of what it does within China

International businesses will still be able to conduct trade from HK as usual
There will be more fat cat bureaucrats, and everyone who is rich is happy
Chinese versions of Eddie Obeid, and Joe Tripodi, will flourish

These are enough reasons for protesters to be angry. Many of these HK students study in Australia, so they know democracy well
But there are no good reasons to protest- mainland China has made up its mind

[evil666]

So sad to see this:sweat:

[AHLUNGOR]

Despite the fact that the riot police had shot tear gas into the protesting crowd on Sunday morning, the peaceful nature of the protestors have not changed, like holding up an umbrella for the police standing on post and shielded them from the rain. This is peace, this is GOLD !!


http://static.apple.nextmedia.com/images/e-paper/20141001/large/1412133665_c536.jpg

[harmony]

Yes peaceful. But I feel sorry for the small business owners that are going broke because of disruption to business
If these protests manage to change the proposed electoral system, I will impressed, so good luck

All the social media posts, the photos, the feelings of good sentiment, count for nothing if you ignore history, particularly the history of 1989.
I love idealists, except when they are kidding themselves

I remember the "Occupy the Streets" protest movement of the last few years, in Australia, Europe, and the USA
Homeless people joined white collar workers living and sleeping on the streets for months if not years, to protest about the greed of big business
Achieved absolutely nothing

This HK protest is not an original idea, and will probably be as useless

[EastwoodPunter]

Despite the fact that the riot police had shot tear gas into the protesting crowd on Sunday morning, the peaceful nature of the protestors have not changed, like holding up an umbrella for the police standing on post and shielded them from the rain. This is peace, this is GOLD !!


http://static.apple.nextmedia.com/images/e-paper/20141001/large/1412133665_c536.jpg


I realise I do not post much at all... but Ahlungor... this photo, has been inspiring. THIS, RIGHT HERE, is the illustration of the 1%ers on each end of a bell curve. I am proud to be born and raised in HK.
Also inspiring is the canoe with 3 gorgeous ladies on it... that's a story for another time...

[AHLUNGOR]

I realise I do not post much at all... but Ahlungor... this photo, has been inspiring. THIS, RIGHT HERE, is the illustration of the 1%ers on each end of a bell curve. I am proud to be born and raised in HK.................


..



Thanks for your support brother !!


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77926000/jpg/_77926923_024138218-1.jpg


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77929000/jpg/_77929349_024144819reu.jpg


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77906000/jpg/_77906873_024127295afp.jpg


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77904000/jpg/_77904990_024129232afp.jpg

[harmony]

"Chief executive Leung Chun-ying, unpopular among protesters for his close ties to Beijing, has rejected calls to resign and has intimated that China will not compromise"
Can any of the optimists out there articulate just what these protests could realistically achieve ?

Learn to live within the confines of a Communist system, or emigrate if you can, brothers. They are the only options IMHO

[harmony]

Here is the other side of the coin:
Golden Week, the busiest time of the year for mainland Chinese to travel to Hong Kong to shop, is being significantly disrupted
Hong Kong businesses and economy suffers, for an unclear purpose

Hypothetical
If you were a group of medium-large businesses in the CBD, made up of HK citizens. Wouldnt you be calling the police to remove the protesters ?

[AHLUNGOR]

[QUOTE=harmony;559675]

Can any of the optimists out there articulate just what these protests could realistically achieve ?






Nothing much probably, but sure beat sitting at home and do nothing !!

[wilisno]

William Wallace: Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!


What a system they've got !

" The First Night Right " !

[harmony]

Great quote Ahlungor.
I dont think Wallace faced the 1 billion strong empire of the Chinese communist party- but your point about pride is a good one

Go ahead people, and step on the dragons tail

Occupy Wall Street for example was a failure:

Occupy started in Manhattan's Zuccotti Park in 2011 and spread quickly
Every week seemed to bring news of mass Occupy arrests, including September 17, 2012, the first anniversary of the movement.
But eventually, Occupy dropped off the radar.
Occupiers left the parks they'd taken over, for a variety of reasons: evictions, violence, or the sheer effect of time

The New York Times newspaper reported in May 2014 showed extensive surveillance and infiltration of protest groups by the FBI and Department of Homeland Security

[AHLUNGOR]

Things that could only happen in a Hong Kong protest

Only in HK


By Samanthi Dissanayake
BBC News

Tear gas, pepper spray, feelings of anger and betrayal, crowds forced to run from riot police... and yet the protests retain that uniquely Hong Kong character.

Reporters and Hong Kong residents have shared their most surreal and charming experiences on the streets.



Doing your homework

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77913000/jpg/_77913872_bcf034a7-bd91-4cc4-bdc4-e622819b45bf.jpg



Apologising for the barricade you put up

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77915000/jpg/_77915519_024131320-1.jpg



Deploying ancient arts of self defence with an umbrella

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77922000/jpg/_77922339_umbrella).jpg



Concern for how fragrant fellow protesters are

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77910000/jpg/_77910997_a85fd732-f1c0-4536-8c98-cbd9ff5e869f.jpg



Keeping off the well cut grass lawn when asked by a cardboard sign

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77910000/jpg/_77910989_007715718-1.jpg


Being the tidiest protesters on the block

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77913000/jpg/_77913869_024131193-1.jpg

[wilisno]

Well done Hongkies ! ;) ;) ;)

[harmony]

Just saw 730pm report on ABC
A Hong Kong Professor from the City University was interviewed as he protested on the streets
He allowed his name and face to be shown
Brave. Very brave
Well done and good luck

[tpol]

I too reckon that this is useless. Hk is gornskies and will become a Tasmania of China.

It will be a tourist centre.

A lot of the expats I know have already moved to Singapore or shanghai

If I were a hkonger and had children I would send them overseas to hedge my bet.

I Was in Taiwan earlier this year and it was slow. China has strangled the life out of it due to its disobedience

And hk will just follow suit of it continues this way

Imagine what will happen when the Yuan becomes hk currency

[kln]

I really wish them all the best as I cannot foresee any good solution if this drags on, it will only hurt their economy. It surely doesn't look like Beijing will change their mind and agree to what the people want.

However it's good to see some people acting peacefully during protests.

[AHLUNGOR]

http://auxxxreviews.com/forum/attachments/f35/3697d1412297351-hong-kong-pro-democracy-protests-paralysed-city-sydney-suporting-hongkong.jpg



If any one is interested in showing your support behind the Hong Kong people's democratic movement, please visit the support group site next to the Town Hall, corner of Park and York St

[kln]

http://auxxxreviews.com/forum/attachments/f35/3697d1412297351-hong-kong-pro-democracy-protests-paralysed-city-sydney-suporting-hongkong.jpg



If any one is interested in showing your support behind the Hong Kong people's democratic movement, please visit the support group site next to the Town Hall, corner of Park and York St

was there earlier, didn't notice it, will check it out next week, thanks for the info bro.

[WHITEDUDE]

WTFs the world coming to? These HK peeps should just relax & go have a good fuck or a RNT! Better still they should think themselves lucky & reflect back on the EMOBLA outbreak, or the beheadings FFS.

[harmony]

The Hong Kong protesters now demand a meeting with the Chinese government

Their road block significantly inconvenienced the HK CBD businesses, with an estimated total loss of over $100 million due to the road closures

I am betting it was the businesses hurting the most that asked the gangs to bring the violence

Having a meeting with the Chinese government, before or after a protest, is going to have the same result

The Chinese government dont suffer at all with the road closures, the local businesses and HK people do !

The protesters have very little to negotiate with

[Sextus]

Here is a very good article that was in the Financial Review. It is the very voice of reason and reasonableness and makes many valid and accurate points. The only way forward is for China to listen to the truth in the words of voices like this. Realise it is in their own interests that they recognise the unchangeable unique history of Hong Kong that has shaped the city and meet their just desires much more than just half way.

Ps. I've added some pics to the article.


Joseph Cheng is professor of politics at Hong Kong City University and convenor of the Alliance for True Democracy in Hong Kong.

People in Hong Kong feel cheated. The decision of the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress at the end of August to restrict candidates for the chief executive of Hong Kong, to a list chosen by Beijing, will not allow a meaningful democratic choice by the city’s people.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/waveflows/umbrellarevolution7_zps6c71361f.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/waveflows/media/umbrellarevolution7_zps6c71361f.jpg.html)

The next chief executive will indeed be chosen in 2017 by universal suffrage, just as China promised. But the candidates will be picked by a nomination committee, which is elected by a very narrow franchise – one that is dominated by Hong Kong’s establishment. China’s leaders simply cannot accept a situation where the candidate they favour could lose, and a candidate not accepted by them might win.

Hong Kong people fully accept China’s sovereignty over the territory, and they have no serious intention of challenging the Chinese authorities. But they point out that since 1997, Chinese leaders have chosen three chief executives for Hong Kong, and their performance has been far from satisfactory. Why can’t Hong Kong people select their own leaders?

The community believes that it is sensible enough to elect someone who will co-operate with Beijing to ensure the territory’s stability and prosperity.

The Chinese leadership should not fear that Hong Kong people will elect someone bent on confronting Beijing.

In the eyes of the Chinese leaders however, Hong Kong people have shown only ingratitude for the political tolerance and economic support China has granted them. They have proven troublesome instead. Moreover, Hong Kong is no longer so uniquely important to China’s modernisation. Shanghai could replace Hong Kong, and professionals from the mainland could easily step in for talented people who chose to leave Hong Kong.

Hong Kong people therefore need to be aware of their limits. The time of Hong Kong’s “exceptionalism” in China is passing. The White Paper released by the Chinese government last June clearly indicates that whatever power Hong Kong has, it comes from Beijing, which will keep a central role in Hong Kong’s governance.

Leadership increasingly nervous

Ever since the massive rallies against Beijing’s anti-subversion laws in July 2003, China’s leadership has become increasingly nervous over Hong Kong. This has led to more interference and massive support for local pro-Beijing parties and politicians. These interventions have only created a vicious circle of resentment followed by more interference.

Hong Kong people believe they are not just fighting for a democratic electoral system. They’re also upholding their own core values, their lifestyles and their dignity. They worry Hong Kong may be relegated to being just another big city in China. They know that if they do not speak out now, they may have little chance to do so in a few years’ time.

The Occupy Central protesters, as well as other pro-democracy groups, realise it will be extremely difficult to change the decision of the Chinese leadership in the short term. But they want to tell the whole world they are not going to give up the cause of democracy – they will continue to fight. As long as they do that, at least they can maintain their dignity and principles.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/waveflows/umbrellarevolution6_zpsaebea7b7.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/waveflows/media/umbrellarevolution6_zpsaebea7b7.jpg.html)

Occupy Central’s current campaign may not last long. But when this campaign subsides, the pro-democracy groups will recuperate and plan another wave of protests. The purpose is to expose the lack of legitimacy of the Hong Kong government. Unless it ensures more democracy, it will find it extremely difficult to create effective governance.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/waveflows/umbrellarevolution9_zps1fee7fa5.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/waveflows/media/umbrellarevolution9_zps1fee7fa5.jpg.html)

Chinese leaders have to understand that Hong Kong is a free society. Without this freedom, the spirit of Hong Kong will be lost and it will become just another Shanghai.

From 1997 to 2008, public opinion polls showed that Hong Kong people’s trust for the central government and their identification with the Chinese nation had been growing. Since then, both trends have sharply reversed. This is something that the Chinese leadership needs to think about. But if it maintains its Marxist-Leninist mindset, it will find this hard to understand.


This I think is the bigger picture, and I'm not too worried about some capitalists maybe losing a few bucks in the meantime. If they can collectively lose 100m in just a couple of weeks it makes you wonder how much they make collectively for the other friggin' 50 weeks of the year when there are no street protests. And all the other years too. Makes you think they can maybe easily afford to lose a small percentage if it means the character and spirit of Hong Kong can be retained and enhanced through the brave actions of the protesters.

[Mr. Who]

Just for the record Sextus, the first week of October is always the biggest holiday week in China. In this week all of the hot tourist spots look like this...

12740

So it's actually quite reasonable that they lost $100m in aggregate. I've read somewhere that restaurants owners (as usual) spent huge bulks on all those fancy seafood to get ready for their golden week of the year. Now their crabs and lobsters etc got nothing better to do than dying in the tanks.

[mak695]

This I think is the bigger picture, and I'm not too worried about some capitalists maybe losing a few bucks in the meantime. If they can collectively lose 100m in just a couple of weeks it makes you wonder how much they make collectively for the other friggin' 50 weeks of the year when there are no street protests. And all the other years too. Makes you think they can maybe easily afford to lose a small percentage if it means the character and spirit of Hong Kong can be retained and enhanced through the brave actions of the protesters.

Its probably easy for you to say that collectively losing 100mil in a week is bad. But you have to think about the people that are living in HK, because in the end HK is pretty much runs on money and nothing else. Without money in HK your pretty much screwed. But what about the protesters? Arent majority of them students, Who get money from their parents? So in the end their just screwing themselves over. I'm actually surprised that the business' have let them block the streets for this long.

[harmony]

Agreed Mr Who
I just saw the student action as belligerent, and fruitless
Their protest only hurt not only the local Hong Kong businesses, but also the employees who go to work to support families etc.
A lot of local workers would have been told there was no job for the last 10 days because of futile protesting, and guess what ?
A lot of the lower grade workers, including cleaners, etc, would have been told there is no income for the period of the protests

How about staging the protest where you dont hurt the livelihood of your fellow citizens. Say, in a large park somewhere

Then I may have been half impressed

But then again, the students have nothing to negotiate with.Even if they surrender their lives, its not a strong enough negotiating position
China just have to stay firm with their decisions, and show who is really boss

Ive been in protests myself. I am not dissing protests. But dont hurt your fellow citizens financially, just to make your point
To get my respect, these students need to work volunteer for a few shifts for some of the businesses that were damaged by the protesting

By the way, China makes its decisions in Beijing, then communicates this to Hong Kong.
Since there are no protests in Beijing - you guessed it - nothing will change

In short, China knows which is the dog and which is the tail. And the tail should never wag the dog

Beijing do care about losing face with the International media.
But as long as they dont bring out the artillery, China knows they can continue to write the laws as they see fit

My previous analogy was that the protesters are merely stepping on the dragons tail
As it turned out, the protesters were always beneath the dragons tail

Once again guys, what tangible backdown did Beijing/mainland China make to the student proetests? Nothing. But China is happy to give tear gas

Your HK correspondent signing off

[s0019]

Agreed Mr Who
I just saw the student action as belligerent, and fruitless
Their protest only hurt not only the local Hong Kong businesses, but also the employees who go to work to support families etc.
A lot of local workers would have been told there was no job for the last 10 days because of futile protesting, and guess what ?
A lot of the lower grade workers, including cleaners, etc, would have been told there is no income for the period of the protests

How about staging the protest where you dont hurt the livelihood of your fellow citizens. Say, in a large park somewhere

Then I may have been half impressed

But then again, the students have nothing to negotiate with.Even if they surrender their lives, its not a strong enough negotiating position
China just have to stay firm with their decisions, and show who is really boss

Ive been in protests myself. I am not dissing protests. But dont hurt your fellow citizens financially, just to make your point
To get my respect, these students would work volunteer for a few shifts in some of the businesses that were damaged by the protesting

By the way, China makes its decisions in Beijing, then communicates this to Hong Kong.
Since there are no protests in Beijing - you guessed it - nothing will change

In short, China knows which is the dog and which is the tail. And the tail should never wag the dog

Beijing do care about losing face with the International media.
But as long as they dont bring out the artillery, China knows they can continue to write the laws as they see fit

My previous analogy was that the protesters are merely stepping on the dragons tail
As it turned out, the protesters were always beneath the dragons tail

Your HK correspondent signing off

See most of us have a point, but that does not mean they will get it. They do not need to earn their living. May be just for now. But yes , they are not afraid of that. All they spend on this ridiculous things are time and their fury of other things. A lot of them just try to be hero so they might been treated different with others. In this century , our young generation trend to hate to become ordinary and polite, because they think that's lame .

[cheungchau]

Rioter ? or peaceful demonstrator !!!?.. If this happen in St Louis, Georgia.. how would US police respond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTZKCaFXAU&feature=youtu.be

[mak695]

Rioter ? or peaceful demonstrator !!!?.. If this happen in St Louis, Georgia.. how would US police respond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTZKCaFXAU&feature=youtu.be

This is what I hate about the new generation coming through. They have no idea what real life is like and think they can get away with anything without any repercussions.

WTF did that kid think was gonna happen when he threw that bottle at the car.

I cant believe all the people there were egging the police office to hit him. WTF is wrong with these people

[s0019]

This is what I hate about the new generation coming through. They have no idea what real life is like and think they can get away with anything without any repercussions.

WTF did that kid think was gonna happen when he threw that bottle at the car.

I cant believe all the people there were egging the police office to hit him. WTF is wrong with these people

The protest has been carried for too long and have no solid achievement. They are losing it. If they lost like this, next time it will be far more difficult for them to setup another one. Their last card will be support from others(Local people, media,foreign country ). But this will need a key to launch: we have been attack by police on purpose. Once they have been hit (no matter how the story is), they will have the advantage they need.So this is how it happened.

[mak695]

The protest has been carried for too long and have no solid achievement. They are losing it. If they lost like this, next time it will be far more difficult for them to setup another one. Their last card will be support from others(Local people, media,foreign country ). But this will need a key to launch: we have been attack by police on purpose. Once they have been hit (no matter how the story is), they will have the advantage they need.So this is how it happened.

Majority of the local people already hate the protesters due to disrupting their daily lives and making them lose money. The media is pointless because everyone knows that what they've shown is what they want you to see, but there are people who have filmed the protesters actually starting trouble to begin with. And foreign country, I doubt any foreign country is going to go up against a super power like China. Even the US are having trouble trying to negotiate with them regarding other issues eg. Japan, Taiwan

They should just give up IMO because China has already given them a lot of freedom, if this protest happened in China it probably would have stopped on day 1 and never been told outside the country. Also the protesters would probably be put in jail or worse case scenario death penalty

[harmony]

"Majority of the local people already hate the protesters due to disrupting their daily lives and making them lose money."
Hits the nail on the head

If you want to stage a protest, that annoys local citizens and businesses, and leads to people losing their jobs due to the disruption, then you will not have the support of the local Hong Kong community
Just looked petulant and belligerent, with no respect for the local citizens

Next time you want a protest, try being a bit original
All of you get on the HK ferry and create a fuss that way, with 10 full ferries going up and down HK harbour

Oh, sorry, that wouldnt work. Students would rather make other people lose money, than lose their money on the ferry tickets

Or get some backbone and go protest in Beijing, where the new laws and decisions are actually made ! No, that wont happen, because we all know you will end up being jailed for life

So who really has the power, and wont let go ?

[tpol]

They should've gone for a hunger strike instead. Instead of paying pinG pong on the streets.

Do you reckom that anyone who was pro the demonstration and was shown publicly would disappear if they crossed into the Chinese border?

[harmony]

The students do have a valid argument

China and Britain Hong Kong (香港; "Fragrant harbour") did agree to the principle of "one country, two systems"

The Hong Kong Basic Law , the constitutional document drafted by the Chinese side before the handover, declared that Hong Kong shall have a high degree of autonomy in all matters except foreign relations and military defence

The problem is that the way the students went about their ineffective protest, and also that they need to protest in Beijing where the laws are made (impossible in practice)

Thus the need for more originality. Avoid using the "Occupy" protest method that has been shown in the past to be ineffective, including in New York and Sydney/Melbourne

[Sergaent Brody]

This is not even about democracy anymore, just an excuse for kids to hang out at nights and vent and rant their anger.

We all know how it ended up with Occupy Wall Street.

[harmony]

My point exactly Sergaent Brody
Im only ranting on here because its good to see peoples optimism, but equally disappointing to see this optimism being channelled into fruitless endeavours

Less lounging on the road, and more using originality. Oh, and choose a fight you can actually win

If you want to take on Beijing, and you have a reasonable cause (One country, two systems), dont blow your chances by alienating your local citizens and businesses

Thats just dumb strategy. You need a unified front, including all Hong Kong citizens and businesspeople

These HK students need an effective Strategy Director

[lockhart]

Sadly the students stupidly (ignorant) follow those have Hidden Agenda ... final cost be counted at CHECK OUT time!


My point exactly Sergaent Brody
Im only ranting on here because its good to see peoples optimism, but equally disappointing to see this optimism being channelled into fruitless endeavours

Less lounging on the road, and more using originality. Oh, and choose a fight you can actually win

If you want to take on Beijing, and you have a reasonable cause (One country, two systems), dont blow your chances by alienating your local citizens and businesses

Thats just dumb strategy. You need a unified front, including all Hong Kong citizens and businesspeople

These HK students need an effective Strategy Director

[Mr. Who]

This is not even about democracy anymore, just an excuse for kids to hang out at nights and vent and rant their anger.

We all know how it ended up with Occupy Wall Street.

Exactly. It's just sad that these kids are still seeing themselves as heroes. Whoever points out to them that they are actually idiots/rats gets labelled as a "coward who does not fight for freedom".

[Atomique]

Nothing frightens a government so much as a public protest movement. As we have seen recently in the Ukraine, and Egypt and Lebanon before that, even the most hardline governments will offer concessions when tens of thousands of angry protestors mass in the civic square.

But as Chairman Mao himself said, "political power flows from the barrell of a gun". For a political leadership to take notice the protests must be backed by the credible threat of violence. This is why the Occupy protests did not secure concessions. This is why the HK protests will also fail to achieve their objectives.

And for those who say the HK protests are simply being done in the "chinese way". I don't disagree. Challenging authority is not in the Chinese nature.

[harmony]

"Nothing frightens a government so much as a public protest movement"
Depends if the government has the will to continue with its oppressive method of rule

Syria did not listen to the "public protest movement".
The Syrian Civil War, (ie the Syrian Uprising or the Syrian Revolution), which began in the early spring of 2011 within the context of Arab Spring protests, with nationwide protests against President Bashar al-Assad's government, did not see the government back down at all

Neither did China back down in Tiananmen Square in 1989
The Soviet government, particularly under Stalin, but also afterwards, had no interest in "public protest movements" and these regimes usually have laws expressly forbidding public gatherings

Political power either flows from the pen at the ballot box, or from the barrel of a gun

As a citizen, you need to know before you protest, where the power in your country flows from

[AHLUNGOR]

You can not get a more typically "Hong Kong" picture than this one:

Paying mahjong in the middle of Nathan Road during the "Occupy" !!

That's the spirit !

And that's a pretty good hand too ................lol


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413013064003_C34B14D518DEA839A6E9063DB0DCAC92.jpg

[wilisno]

You can not get a more typically "Hong Kong" picture than this one:

Paying mahjong in the middle of Nathan Road during the "Occupy" !!

That's the spirit !

And that's a pretty good hand too ................lol


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413013064003_C34B14D518DEA839A6E9063DB0DCAC92.jpg

Possible 混一色對對胡 ！ :miao:

[AHLUNGOR]

I wonder if the same peaceful demonstration and "Occupy" will take place in Australia - say blocking the traffic on George Street in front of Town Hall, will the NSW Government allow the blockage stay there for 22 days !! That's how long they have blocked up the Central ??


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413100794704SL4_1CD35A3D9B5481B05AE20AB2BC18528F. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413256387526SL4_4548B345B52BFEBD0FB3F3652BC1820D. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413256282803SL4_4D9F2579A7B6A1D2D136F605589C1BE8. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413274869565SL4_283009ED60F1591275E64731302441DE. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413340277376SL4_182A8A6971EFA4817EF2150E93E49189. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413427664751SL4_09EDF149F4AE1FDB672FA9DB35790FD2. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/ins/ALBUM/s00014/1413705298517SL4_67E9C8419BE77F3ACC369CA58DE29301. jpg


http://fs.mingpao.com/pns/20141021/s00006/1413828209004_654C5E62B958D4ECF0CEB926C9D00051.jpg ?timestamp=1413862941797

[harmony]

Brother Ahlungor, the NSW Government would be keen to practise with their NSW Riot Squad, I am sure.

It turns up whenever there is a massive protest that looks like being a problem

They use large armoured vehicles, and dogs (?and horses)

Not sure if they have a water tank, but the Riot Squad is very well funded

I imagine they dont hesitate to arrest and ask questions later. The people arrested are often released, but it does wonders to disperse a crowd !

[AHLUNGOR]

I hope all the students and democratic protesters really understand what they are doing, what are they asking for and the bottom line - what extend will the Chinese government be willing to tolerate before losing too much "FACE" ??

I will at this point rule out another "Tienanmen Square" possibility but I just hope that the Hong Kong protesters have a realistic ideal and not trying to turn Hong Kong under the Chinese rules into the USA or the land down under !

To let the Hong Kong people to have a general election in 2017 (1 person 1 vote!) and to actually vote for their next CEO is a Big Lap Forward ! Hong Kong under British rules were never given any voting rights, nor any Chinese people in the mainland China - I thing the right to vote is very symbolic - it is one giant step towards the right direction - and let's not screw this up !! Rome was not built in one day and you cannot turn a Communist Party into a Full democratic society with free election in one go !!

I think the majority of the people in HK are happy to make small steps of progress towards some form of democracy without violence and without losing any standard of living or compromising their current degree of freedom and way of life!

As Mr Deng famous said about the future of Hong Kong: 50 years no change, horse racing to continue and nightclub dancing to continue (what he actually meant was - the fucking punting activities can continue! and we all knew that............lol!!)

鄧主任言道：五十年不變！
馬照跑，舞照跳！

[harmony]

Haha brother Ahlungor
Agree with your sentiments exactly

Voting rights are important. Good luck to HK, may they get someone who understands effective protest strategy

At the moment, the students are getting nowhere

[tony123]

Sorry need to delete

[lockhart]

Hong Kong enjoy more freedom than other countries. Looked around how USA police (Jefferson ) deal with US citizens
Australia follow our constitutions Then it is fair that Hong Kong follow Basic Law that their ex-master signed up with China Government. Not sure what promises have been broken?
Watched the Youtube link shared above -- the demonstrator behaviour really disgusting.

[harmony]

I dont see your point tony123
So you think Beijing are going to change their mind? My humble opinion is that Beijing isnt even listening

Im happy to be proven wrong, and Beijing do allow democratic elections of the CEO based on this "Occupy protest"

Good luck to them. I am very doubtful

[CunningLinguist]

................

[mak695]

The students are telling the world, They have a Voice.

What voice do they have? All they have shown the world is how stupid they are camping in busy streets causing trouble with police and making local business' lose money.



We in Oz, have a choice ... we can walk down the road and get some real pussy but sadly the people of HK don't have a choice.

I don't know if you've been to HK or not but its actually quite easy to walk down the road and get pussy, weather you pay for it or not.

Also HK has a lot more freedom both speech wise and what they can do in public, than there is in mainland China.

[tpol]

The world will not do anything. It is an internal Chinese matter. Yes Hong Kong is a part of China

[Sergaent Brody]

The Western world worries more about Jennifer Lawrence leaked photos than what is happening in UK.

These kids keep telling themselves that the West is closely monitoring them and helping them ... come to your senses, they got over the Occupy thing two years ago, just after they got bored of Big Brothers ...

[harmony]

If the students are waiting for the West to respond, they are kidding themselves

This HK democracy is far less a priority to the West than
1)ISIS in Iraq/Syria/Turkey
2)ISIS terrorist threats in USA, UK, France etc etc etc
3)Ebola virus epidemic
4)Russias worrying expansionist policies, including in Ukraine
5)Upcoming US elections, with Barack Obama due to stand down after 2 terms
6)Race wars related to cops shooting minority groups in USA
7)Global warming, now shown to be a fake beatup
8)Recent iCloud privacy breech - thousands of famous people have their nude photos released publically
9)Ongoing European economy problems, G20 Summit occurring in Brisbane, Australia
10)The new iPhone 6S "bends"
..
..
100)Hong Kong

[AHLUNGOR]

If the students are waiting for the West to respond, they are kidding themselves

This HK democracy is far less a priority to the West than
1)ISIS in Iraq/Syria/Turkey
2)ISIS terrorist threats in USA, UK, France etc etc etc
3)Ebola virus epidemic
4)Russias worrying expansionist policies, including in Ukraine
5)Upcoming US elections, with Barack Obama due to stand down after 2 terms
6)Race wars related to cops shooting minority groups in USA
7)Global warming, now shown to be a fake beatup
8)Recent iCloud privacy breech - thousands of famous people have their nude photos released publically
9)Ongoing European economy problems, G20 Summit occurring in Brisbane, Australia
10)The new iPhone 6S "bends"
..
..
100)Hong Kong


Haha, brother Harmony, thanks for placing the HK situation among the top 100 issues in the world today, the reality is, it probably is in the top 10 whether you are Chinese or from HK !

The western world will watch with interest but will not openly criticize China as it is indeed an internal affairs ! Unless it turns for the much much worst and becomes very violent with fatality ! Lets Not go there !

The balance of power in the Korean Penisular and all those disputes with Japan in the north and Vietnam in the south is very delicate, not to mention the US base in the Philipines .

So China has a lot on her plate and will be monitoring the HK situation very closely and hopefully going about it with constrains .

The government and the students reps had their first official meeting last night, although not much break through but, talking and listening to each other is a good start !

動口不動手，來吧！ 對話！

[harmony]

Thank you brother Ahlungor

Major world concerns October 2014
1)ISIS in Iraq/Syria/Turkey
2)ISIS terrorist threats in USA, UK, France etc etc etc
3)Massive refugee crisis related to the Middle East drama - Italy having to patrol the Mediterranean
4)Ebola virus epidemic
5)Russias worrying expansionist policies, including in Ukraine
6)North Korea repressive regime and threats to South Korea
7)China and its territorial claims to Taiwan, Vietnam oil wells ... etc etc, threatening international laws
8)Upcoming US elections, with Barack Obama due to stand down after 2 terms
9)Race wars related to cops shooting minority groups in USA
10)Global warming, now shown to be a fake beatup
11)Recent iCloud privacy breech - thousands of famous people have their nude photos released publically
12)Ongoing European economy problems, G20 Summit occurring in Brisbane, Australia
13)The new iPhone 6S has technical issues, and "bends" out of shape
..
..
100)Hong Kong's internal dispute and election of a CEO