Who would vote yes for this 1946 referendum?

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Originally Posted by frisson

Cant imagine a worse mistake than disappointing our indigenous brothers so incompetently by convincing the majority of the country to vote against an indigenous voice, when 12 months ago everyone was willing to vote Yes

But you are correct, the robodebt scandal is a close second

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Well you could've voted yes.

And 38 billion dollars to companies who didn't need it! 38 BILLION!!! Imagine the possibilities! we could've had more than 80 referendums in one year!

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Originally Posted by frisson

So you voted yes. Any ideas why the country voted no?

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I did vote Yes, and curiously so did the majority of my safe Liberal electorate. It seems a bit counter-intuitive...many of the safe Liberal seats voted Yes, and nearly all of the safe Labor seats voted No, apart from Albo's.
I think the overwhelming No vote was because people can't see how the Voice would actually improve anything on the ground.
I agree that the referendum should have been 2 questions: 1 for constitutional recognition and 1 for the Voice proposal.
Constitutional recognition is really only symbolic but emotional symbolism is a powerful thing that could be harnessed to improve a lot of lives.

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Originally Posted by frisson

I like Jacinta Price's quote:
"We were accused of misinformation on the NO side. The PM had a far more serious criticism - no information"

True

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You actually believe this?? Misinformation is better than no information?

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Originally Posted by ReginaldBubbles

You actually believe this?? Misinformation is better than no information?

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Yes. The feedback from the majority of the voting population on Saturday was that there was not enough information provided

And as history showed, the majority of the population voted No for not enough information. Thats what happened

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Originally Posted by frisson

Yes. The feedback from the majority of the voting population on Saturday was that there was not enough information provided

And as history showed, the majority of the population voted No for not enough information. Thats what happened

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But even if you think that, how the fuck is misinformation better??

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Originally Posted by frisson

And as history showed, the majority of the population voted No for not enough information. Thats what happened

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This is what history shows. This is what happened.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...10-p5e3fu.html

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Originally Posted by ReginaldBubbles

This is what history shows. This is what happened.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...10-p5e3fu.html

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Does this article lay the blame on the referendum failure mainly on Mr Albanese or does it blame Murdoch ? I doubt many people get their news from newspapers anymore

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Originally Posted by frisson

Does this article lay the blame on the referendum failure mainly on Mr Albanese or does it blame Murdoch ? I doubt many people get their news from newspapers anymore

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I mean you could read it. And I don't know why you're so protective of Murdoch.

Quote from the article:
"Inglis told supporters that phone canvassing – using a tool called CallHub employed by successful campaigns in Europe and the United States – was integral to Advance’s efforts.
If 250 people attend a phone calling session, Inglis said, they could reach 15,000 so-called “soft” voters yet to make a firm decision."

No campaign focused mainly on this and social media.

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Originally Posted by ReginaldBubbles

But even if you think that, how the fuck is misinformation better??

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Seriously though?

I do seriously doubt that the 1946 referendum would pass today. It passed then on the end of a world war and the depression. People still remembered what it was like to be destitute and how easy it was for them to become so. They realised that THEY needed a safety net and so voted it in.

Since then we have had decades of (relative) economic security and politicians on both sides (but mostly the coalition) demonising "dole bludgers" and welfare "rorters". Today those fallicies still run deep with many people and this would count against an affirmative vote. People tend to only vote yes if they believe it won't harm or effect them if it is about a group of "other" people. That is why it always easier to argue a no case in a debate.

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Originally Posted by uglyphil

I do seriously doubt that the 1946 referendum would pass today. It passed then on the end of a world war and the depression. People still remembered what it was like to be destitute and how easy it was for them to become so. They realised that THEY needed a safety net and so voted it in.

Since then we have had decades of (relative) economic security and politicians on both sides (but mostly the coalition) demonising "dole bludgers" and welfare "rorters". Today those fallicies still run deep with many people and this would count against an affirmative vote. People tend to only vote yes if they believe it won't harm or effect them if it is about a group of "other" people. That is why it always easier to argue a no case in a debate.

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Yep. And they didn't have social media or hyper-partisanship. We're all done for...

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Originally Posted by ReginaldBubbles

You actually believe this?? Misinformation is better than no information?

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You can analyse, discuss, debate and assess 'misinformation' and 'disinformation', but 'no information' now that's fucken hard to wrap your head around!

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Originally Posted by Double_Adapter

You can analyse, discuss, debate and assess 'misinformation' and 'disinformation', but 'no information' now that's fucken hard to wrap your head around!

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Exactly. The majority of Australians voted No. That tells you No information was a bigger issue than Misinformation

The PM has accepted the responsibility for the failure, he acknowledges that his lack of proper information and proper consultation was a fatal blow to his rushed referendum

How would anyone know there was mis information if there was no information.

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Originally Posted by carmen farquis

How would anyone know there was mis information if there was no information.

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Good point!

The concept of dis, mis and no information can be quite confusing and in punting terms I'll use Mimi @ Burwood as an example.

Disinformation:
Mimi is back, working from her old place at Burwood, and now offers full service

Misinformation:
Mimi said she might be coming back to Sydney in Nov-Dec.

No Information:
Mimi...


And I guess this is why the referendum failed.

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Originally Posted by carmen farquis

How would anyone know there was mis information if there was no information.

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That's a great question. Did you think you were given enough information to understand how the Voice would work?

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Originally Posted by Double_Adapter

The concept of dis, mis and no information can be quite confusing and in punting terms I'll use Mimi @ Burwood as an example.

Disinformation:
Mimi is back, working from her old place at Burwood, and now offers full service

Misinformation:
Mimi said she might be coming back to Sydney in Nov-Dec.

No Information:
Mimi...

And I guess this is why the referendum failed.

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I love it.
Bringing it back to terms punters understand

May I have a go?

Disinformation:
Lily could be working today. She come later. Come and see

Misinformation:
Lily working today (when she is away). Come and see

No Information:
""How does your roster work, give me details please??"
"Come to our shop and see who is here. Can't tell you right now. Come and see"

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Originally Posted by Sharphorse

To be fair Murdoch looks so old he was probably the one who nailed Jesus to the cross

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Both Rudd and Turnbull blamed Murdoch for being knifed in the back by their own parties. Nice scapegoat

Murdoch was the reason I got a speeding fine

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Originally Posted by Sharphorse

Wait until you hear about the last guy we had who came up with this scheme called robodebt and also oversaw 38 billion dollars in payments to business owners who didn’t need it and was never recovered

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Classic case of distracting from the current discussion

Albo royally f_cked up, but look over there !!

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Originally Posted by frisson

Classic case of distracting from the current discussion

Albo royally f_cked up, but look over there !!

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Finding it hard to buy into your argument that Albo was responsible for the failure of this referendum when you put it against our track record of 0/9 successful referendums in the last 47 years. Only 8/45 successful overall. Out of that 8 successful, I count only 2 that were of great importance, the rest were superficial at best.

Are we really "united"? Do we really stand as one? The pattern of outcomes in the referendum failures after WW II paint a different picture. There are deep divisions everywhere. City folks vs regional folks. State vs state. Race, education level, wealth, income, tree lover, animal lover, meat eater or vegan. You name it. It's as if people are continuously trying to find new ways to create another division.

Up to this point, past referendum failures have been because of state rivalry. NSW and VIC would vote for Yes, the other states counter them with No. This time around, it appears to be city vs regional. What's next?

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Originally Posted by GoldfishMan

Finding it hard to buy into your argument that Albo was responsible for the failure of this referendum when you put it against our track record of 0/9 successful referendums in the last 47 years. Only 8/45 successful overall. Out of that 8 successful, I count only 2 that were of great importance, the rest were superficial at best

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Australians would have definitely voted Yes for Aboriginal recognition in the Constitution. They want to address to Gap in Indigenous health and education

Referendums will pass if Australia can trust a well defined question

But they don't like to be given No Information in a rushed manner. Even Noel Pearson, a famous Indigenous spokesman, stated he produced an actual Voice model, but Albo ignored him and kept things vague ! I'm not making this up! Noel was taken surprise by how rushed Albo was

Albo acknowledges the 2023 referendum failure was his fault

It was also was sneaky to have two questions and not explain how the Voice would be a committee that would work when all other committed get bogged down with bureaucrats who are all talk and no results

Noone explained how the Voice that deals directly with the Ministers and Cabinet works

Noone explained - would the Voice appeal to the High Court if the Voice felt it was not being listened to

The yes vote was leading the polls at the start of the year.

Imagine losing a soccer match with a 2-0 lead at half time.

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Originally Posted by ReginaldBubbles

Just another fun referendum discussion topic.
Who would vote yes now to the 1946 referendum?

Question
Do you approve of the proposed law for the alteration of the Constitution entitled 'Constitution Alteration (Social Services) 1946'?

Section 51 of the Australian Constitution grants the commonwealth legislative power. Prior to this amendment the only social services provision was s51(xxiii) that gave power to legislate for invalid and old-age pensions. The proposal was to introduce s51(xxiiiA), which reads:[1]

(xxiiiA) the provision of maternity allowances, widows' pensions, child endowment, unemployment, pharmaceutical, sickness and hospital benefits, medical and dental services (but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription), benefits to students and family allowances;


It passed btw which is why we have a safety net that reduces crime, lowers sickness and death rates etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_A...cial_Services)

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Couldn’t you have asked this question back in 1946? Why did you wait 80 years?

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Originally Posted by thefatness

The yes vote was leading the polls at the start of the year.

Imagine losing a soccer match with a 2-0 lead at half time.

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That's right. All Australians are fair minded and would have voted Yes.

But Albo's messaging was vague and elusive
Australians made the correct decision on polling day

Indigenous supporters now suffer because Albo rushed things without engaging with the population

The dirty secret is that Albo and the Elites who surrounded him, were completely out of touch with mainstream Australia on this issue who rebelled against not enough detail

Like a salesman trying to sell you a DVD player, noone trusted the PM

Perhaps if he had better dental work?