QR code

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Originally Posted by aussiegaigin

Got a response to my query about the double check in conundrum:

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Isn't it obvious that they can easily figure out that you've left one place and gone to another, simply by you checking into the next destination?

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I'm not sure it was ever a conundrum!

No, you don't need to check out but if you think anyone is going to try figure out your individual movements you're sadly mistaken. Check in's drive testing rates, the more people they capture the better it is (for them). They'll have thousands of registrations to deal with. Unless they have specific software to deal with it, which I doubt, you'll simply get a text.

Why would you put yourself in the position of a test + quarantine + inconvenience to family and friends because you don't check out.

But then, it is up to the individual.

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Originally Posted by adahar

I'm not sure it was ever a conundrum!

No, you don't need to check out but if you think anyone is going to try figure out your individual movements you're sadly mistaken. Check in's drive testing rates, the more people they capture the better it is (for them). They'll have thousands of registrations to deal with. Unless they have specific software to deal with it, which I doubt, you'll simply get a text.

Why would you put yourself in the position of a test + quarantine + inconvenience to family and friends because you don't check out.

But then, it is up to the individual.

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Where did you see that they were actually using the QR code check-in system to enforce close contact testing and quarantine? All I see in daily announcements is the Gov continuously telling people "if you've been to so and so place at so and so time, you need to go get tested and quarantine". It is again the same old self-policing tactic.

On the other hand, what they DO use the QR code for, is to track where each infected case has been to. That's how they come up with the close contacts exposure sites list.
Yeah you're right they're not gonna track everyone's every movement, but that argument also renders your fears of being forced into quarantine moot if you think about it.

do you need to qr scan when you leave a shop as well?

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Originally Posted by GoldfishMan

Where did you see that they were actually using the QR code check-in system to enforce close contact testing and quarantine? All I see in daily announcements is the Gov continuously telling people "if you've been to so and so place at so and so time, you need to go get tested and quarantine". It is again the same old self-policing tactic.

On the other hand, what they DO use the QR code for, is to track where each infected case has been to. That's how they come up with the close contacts exposure sites list.
Yeah you're right they're not gonna track everyone's every movement, but that argument also renders your fears of being forced into quarantine moot if you think about it.

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The lists are generated when a positive case reveals their phone number. The database is interrogated with that number which reveals the businesses they've checked into. That subset is interrogated for numbers that checked in subsequent to the case. If the case didn't check out then it's likely that everyone on that day will be pinged. If they did check out then all the numbers present between those time stamps + an hour or two (maybe) will be pinged. These become close contacts and become subject to a test + quarantine + further tests.

Checking out gives you a chance to dodge that bullet.

The close contact numbers are investigated for their movements which generates the casual contact sites. Those people maybe pinged depending upon time stamps, location, relevance etc.

This is not contact tracing but merely generating lists of possibilities for testing. The real contact tracing starts with personal contacts that may not have a phone number anywhere in the system but are revealed by the case and close contacts . If they do have numbers in the system then those visited sites could be put into the mix.

The call for volunteering of being at exposure sites is due to lack of QR registrations. This is very inefficient and doesn't capture anywhere near enough people. 100 daily at a Coles is clearly unrealistic so mandatory check in's are necessary. This will resolve the Govt's pleading for testing numbers to be up.

The Govt doesn't publish how the tests are arrived at, a) people with symptoms, b) walk ins for exposure sites or c) QR generated lists. I've only heard of less than half a dozen cases found by QR codes, there may be more but the Govt hasn't made any noise about them.

This is the sad part, thousands of people together with their families, friends, work colleagues etc inconvenienced for so little benefit in my opinion. But it is what is is. Public Health has to give advice to the Govt and they need a firm basis to support that advice. The higher the testing rate the more the outcome can be justified, regardless if it's positive or negative. It's just a little annoying that's all.

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Originally Posted by spir55

do you need to qr scan when you leave a shop as well?

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No you don't but, it's my opinion you should. Knowing exactly what time you were or weren't in there may limit your liability to be captured by the system.

It is completely your choice 'though.

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Originally Posted by spir55

do you need to qr scan when you leave a shop as well?

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You don't need to scan again, you just check out in the app. You can "back date" the time later if you forget at the time of leaving. You should get a reminder message after a couple of hours, if you haven't.

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Originally Posted by aussiegaigin

You don't need to scan again, you just check out in the app. You can "back date" the time later if you forget at the time of leaving. You should get a reminder message after a couple of hours, if you haven't.

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Are you saying you can "check out" remotely and also nominate your exit time?

Seems like a bit of a loophole to me!

I will not be signing into any check in app. Not keen to be tracked while doing the deed.

The QR code is a pain in the arse.
I can see the reasons why we have it, but it is still a pain in the arse.
But we have to keep some perspective and context.
In Australia we have had pandemic-lite compared to the rest of the world.
We have had nowhere near the amount of cases or deaths and nowhere near the economic damage most other countries have suffered.
So if we have to put up with some inconveniences and some invasions of privacy to keep that then I think that is a fair enough price to pay.
We definitely have to be vigilant though in monitoring and then winding back these encroachments on privacy, but that is a fight to be fought in the future.
The bottom line is we are a liberal democracy with a shit load of checks and balances; parliament, elections, free media (traditional and social), the judiciary, pressure groups, demonstrations, culture, universities, an educated population etc.
We are not China or Saudi Arabia or Ethiopia.
A regime where we have no rights or freedoms can happen but it is unlikely and won't be easy.
But as a wise man once said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance".
End of sermon ... on the Mount ... of Venus :)

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Originally Posted by adahar

Are you saying you can "check out" remotely and also nominate your exit time?

Seems like a bit of a loophole to me!

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After you have checked in, a new page to check out appears and it shows the current time. You can scroll the clock back to set the time you actually left (or earlier if you want to cheat) but you can't scroll it forward.

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Originally Posted by aussiegaigin

After you have checked in, a new page to check out appears and it shows the current time. You can scroll the clock back to set the time you actually left (or earlier if you want to cheat) but you can't scroll it forward.

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Ok. That's good to know. Wasn't about cheating but ensuring limiting your liability to the actual time you spent there.

There's always the possibility that they don't take any notice of check out times, preferring to ping you with a text anyway. It's not like you know when the positive case was precisely there so you just have to trust the system.

I generally agree with the QR codes. The state systems appear to be more reliable than the Commonwealth Covidsafe app which is never credited with finding any cases.

Fortunately I was an early adopter of the NSW QR app and I don't use it for anything other than QR codes. So the name is a pseudonym, and I have not added more recent features like history and reminders. However the phone number is correct. If I have been to an exposure site I want to know about it.

The system does remember and display your last check in and out but not earlier visits if you don't enable history. So if you are concerned about your privacy just remember to check in and out of the first take-away coffee shop after you have finished elsewhere.

For things like claiming "dine and discover" vouchers I use a PC, not the QR phone.

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.....Commonwealth Covidsafe app which is never credited with finding any cases.

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None of these proximity apps have ever worked, anywhere. They produce an avalanche of data that simply cannot be relied upon. One trial long ago in the UK produced 70,000 contacts from a couple of test cases.

There are a few ways around this
1. Disable the app and use the webform.
2. As the shop to log in for you, using the web form.
3. They can still use a manual form.

Any which way fill the form out use a fake name and fake number. But best to use your real number just in case something happens, but use a fake name.

Better to fill something out not to get the girls and shop into trouble. They dont have the legal right to ask you for your id.

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Originally Posted by YI88

I generally agree with the QR codes. The state systems appear to be more reliable than the Commonwealth Covidsafe app which is never credited with finding any cases.

Fortunately I was an early adopter of the NSW QR app and I don't use it for anything other than QR codes. So the name is a pseudonym, and I have not added more recent features like history and reminders. However the phone number is correct. If I have been to an exposure site I want to know about it.

The system does remember and display your last check in and out but not earlier visits if you don't enable history. So if you are concerned about your privacy just remember to check in and out of the first take-away coffee shop after you have finished elsewhere.

For things like claiming "dine and discover" vouchers I use a PC, not the QR phone.

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Not sure what app u are using, but NSW app linked driver license car rego etc and the history of where u have checked in wasn’t an option it just appear one day.
Surely it doesn’t matter if u use a PC or app it’s all the same account

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The system does remember and display your last check in and out but not earlier visits if you don't enable history. So if you are concerned about your privacy just remember to check in and out of the first take-away coffee shop after you have finished elsewhere.

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You might be able to turn off "history" in your app, but I'll bet it is stored in the servers.

There is a fake covid NSW app link that’s come out. You basically you go to the link and you manually type in the name of the shop and it checks in so you can show it to the shop/brothel if they ask for check in proof.

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Originally Posted by asgard

There are a few ways around this
1. Disable the app and use the webform.
2. As the shop to log in for you, using the web form.
3. They can still use a manual form.

Any which way fill the form out use a fake name and fake number. But best to use your real number just in case something happens, but use a fake name.

Better to fill something out not to get the girls and shop into trouble. They dont have the legal right to ask you for your id.

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If you put your real phone number there is no point writing a fake name...

Funny thing once a waiter gave me his phone number to check in and I could see it was pre-filled with a previous customer data with name and phone number. I could have checked in this guy again ahah. I didn't of course and maybe it was a fake name anyway I didn't care.

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Originally Posted by surething91

If you put your real phone number there is no point writing a fake name...

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Actually, there is… Do you really want the shop (and potentially the ML/WL) knowing your real name?

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Originally Posted by DireStraits

Actually, there is… Do you really want the shop (and potentially the ML/WL) knowing your real name?

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I was more talking about the web form but yeah if you fill the paper form it's another story.

Scanning the Qld PHO issued today for intel on the mandatory requirement for QR codes. A couple of interesting things that may be of interest to this forum.

Under "Beauty and personal care services" both "Massage (therapeutic)" and "Non-therapeutic massage" are listed. I wonder what Qld thinks the difference is from a description point of view or is it an admission that there are massage services that aren't necessarily therapeutic?

Under "High risk businesses, activities and undertakings," the activities are, "Adult entertainment venues (strip clubs), brothels, sex on premises venues and sole operator sex workers" which require check in which can be conditional with the following:-

"Where the use of the Check In Qld app would result in safety or liability issues, the business, activity or undertaking must:

collect contact information; and

comply with the requirements for collection and storage; and

if requested, provide the information collected to a public health officer within a stated time."

Just to be clear, I'm assuming that you might claim a liability issue, check in with the business and they must keep the record for 30 days and make it available if needed. This ensures a higher level of privacy. Data is held in house until Public Health wants to look at it (they may never need to). It's only used for contact tracing and can be deleted after 30 days. This is the only category where this clause applies.

Qld sex industry laws are different to NSW but it will interesting to see if these QR rules are mirrored here.

I heard before that once you have the bluetooth on and your location is set on your phone. it still does track your record whereever you go even you don’t use QR scan.

How they can enforce it? Easy, just integrated into the brothel license requirement. First time offence you get a fine and warning, second offence the license will be revoke.

This is lock down really fucking up the economy and I think we should all do out bit to end it. For long term I think all close space building should have compulsory check in.

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Originally Posted by suka02

I heard before that once you have the bluetooth on and your location is set on your phone. it still does track your record whereever you go even you don’t use QR scan.

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I heard even you turn your phone off you still be track. The only way is too stop tracking is to take the sim out from your phone. I read some way a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by Climax598

I heard even you turn your phone off you still be track. The only way is too stop tracking is to take the sim out from your phone. I read some way a few years ago.

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With removable battery a chapter of history, it is absolutely possible. They just have to fake the 0% battery in software. As long as there are power left, there is not reason why they can't make you phone lights up like Christmas tree in tracking, even without a sim