Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by AHLUNGOR

I read/heard something and can’t remember where? That the air we breathe on an airplane was actually coming out from high pressure compressed air cylinders and as a result, it’s actually quite safe to breathe in ? Because the temperature of the air was almost freezing so virus can’t survive there?

Just wasn’t sure how the circulation systems would work, it’s still an enclosed and very congested small space isn’t it ?

Any experts here ?

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I have heard the same thing, but find it confusing as it's usually very easy to pick up bugs when travelling on planes.

It’s 50% recycled and 50% new air from outside. It all goes through a filter so it’s 100% safe. The danger is being in close proximity with someone who may be contagious for hours. Add to that the low level of hygiene and the chances are high you will be infected is high.

what is often not talked about is the recovery rate which will probably cross over based on theses stats
https://www.pharmaceutical-technolog...s-and-updates/

I think that the hysteria surrounding the virus is a cover for the trade wars of major players.

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Originally Posted by AHLUNGOR

I read/heard something and can’t remember where? That the air we breathe on an airplane was actually coming out from high pressure compressed air cylinders and as a result, it’s actually quite safe to breathe in ? Because the temperature of the air was almost freezing so virus can’t survive there?

Just wasn’t sure how the circulation systems would work, it’s still an enclosed and very congested small space isn’t it ?

Any experts here ?

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The only stored air in a plane is oxygen for the emergency system. Fresh air is circulated from outside by the engines and processed to a comfortable temperature. Stake air would be bled out, controlled by the pressurisation inside.I don't think there would be many viruses floating around at cruising altitudes.

Google it for more details.

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Originally Posted by Pongie

It’s 50% recycled and 50% new air from outside. It all goes through a filter so it’s 100% safe. The danger is being in close proximity with someone who may be contagious for hours. Add to that the low level of hygiene and the chances are high you will be infected is high.

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Good points Pongie, Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Pongie

It’s 50% recycled and 50% new air from outside. It all goes through a filter so it’s 100% safe. The danger is being in close proximity with someone who may be contagious for hours. Add to that the low level of hygiene and the chances are high you will be infected is high.

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HEPA filters used on planes are meant to trap small particulates like dust or ash. Not viruses. So unless planes do what hospitals are doing, filtering the air through a UVC system to kill off any bacteria & viruses. The same air generally is circulated with mix of some air from outside but minus some dust.

Posted this info in another thread but posting here as it’s relevant:

According to one study, Covid19 could harm male fertility:

“Both Covid-19 and Sars invade cells by combining with an enzyme called Ace2, which exists in large amounts in the testicles, as well as in other organs like the kidneys and heart”

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...iming-covid-19

“ SARS and the novel coronavirus share about 80 percent of their genetic structure. However, COVID-19 attacks a protein called furin — the same protein that is attacked by Ebola and HIV, which are not coronaviruses”

https://www.salon.com/2020/02/27/why...coronaviruses/

Shutting borders will be wise...bring school holidays forward and give 2 weeks mandatory closer. 2-3 weeks of economic loss is nothing compared to lives....so long as it's warm get this done....when winter sets in....no use fighting this virus....it will only grow stronger.

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Originally Posted by retrospect

I can tell you the entire health system and and health workers at all levels right now are very tense. What is coming is something no one, no matter how experienced and expert, has ever experienced. Everyone knows it but no one will say it because no one believes it.

There is no reason that what has happened in Italy will not happen here. Can some one give me a good reason why it won't happen?

When we look at China, well, China happily sacrifices lives for political reasons. Iran also. So there is good reason to believe we would do better. But not Italy. Italy's case fatally rate is getting up towards 10%. People are dying not because they are too sick, but because there is not enough treatment to go around.

France, Germany, Greece and the rest of Europe will be next. The USA is fucked. They don't have the health system to cope and the horse has bolted there. I think they will be overwhelmed in a few weeks. I hope I am wrong.

Australia is not magically immune. We need to close our borders tomorrow. All the government is talking about is the economic cost. How do you value the lives lost economically? What is the trauma of watching people die that you can't save because there are just too many people dying worth economically? The cost of shutting down everything, literally everything, will be more than the cost of closing the borders now, anyway.

There is still a reasonable chance that we can contain or at least slow the outbreaks we have. Not with open borders. We need wider test criteria and more testing. We need a better, more reliable, validated test. We need to give the infected and isolate them until they are well. South Korea is an example we could follow here.

Today the nsw health minister said we can expect 1.5 million people in nsw to be infected. That is the most optimistic forecast. It could easily be twice that. But that forecast still equates to 180k serious cases requiring ICU level of care to survive. If those cases are spread out evenly over a year, that's 500 new ICU admissions a day. They won't be spread evenly and we have no chance of coping anyway.

This is not the flu. The flu never hospitalises 15% of those infected. Many of those require ventilation and even heat lung bypass to survive this infection.

I really hope there is some secret plan that I don't know about right now. We are all in for some very hard times ahead. But the pm goes on TV tonight to feed us bullshit about how his economic plan will lead us to prosperity. Please. Eventually, we will all be rich if we survive, and that will be worth losing our loved ones. We won't be rich anyway.

I was really hoping he was going to make a sombre speech to prepare us, the Australian people, for the battle ahead that we have to face. But no he's all 'everything is great, we'll just get some apprentices. Let's not talky about the casualties'

Eh. Fuck. I am ranting.

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Too many idiots that buy into the bs narrative that this is somehow similar to the seasonal flu. The only thing we have going for us are the extra strong UV rays and a few months worth of time before we hit winter

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Originally Posted by retrospect

I can tell you the entire health system and and health workers at all levels right now are very tense. What is coming is something no one, no matter how experienced and expert, has ever experienced. Everyone knows it but no one will say it because no one believes it.

There is no reason that what has happened in Italy will not happen here. Can some one give me a good reason why it won't happen?

When we look at China, well, China happily sacrifices lives for political reasons. Iran also. So there is good reason to believe we would do better. But not Italy. Italy's case fatally rate is getting up towards 10%. People are dying not because they are too sick, but because there is not enough treatment to go around.

France, Germany, Greece and the rest of Europe will be next. The USA is fucked. They don't have the health system to cope and the horse has bolted there. I think they will be overwhelmed in a few weeks. I hope I am wrong.

Australia is not magically immune. We need to close our borders tomorrow. All the government is talking about is the economic cost. How do you value the lives lost economically? What is the trauma of watching people die that you can't save because there are just too many people dying worth economically? The cost of shutting down everything, literally everything, will be more than the cost of closing the borders now, anyway.

There is still a reasonable chance that we can contain or at least slow the outbreaks we have. Not with open borders. We need wider test criteria and more testing. We need a better, more reliable, validated test. We need to give the infected and isolate them until they are well. South Korea is an example we could follow here.

Today the nsw health minister said we can expect 1.5 million people in nsw to be infected. That is the most optimistic forecast. It could easily be twice that. But that forecast still equates to 180k serious cases requiring ICU level of care to survive. If those cases are spread out evenly over a year, that's 500 new ICU admissions a day. They won't be spread evenly and we have no chance of coping anyway.

This is not the flu. The flu never hospitalises 15% of those infected. Many of those require ventilation and even heat lung bypass to survive this infection.

I really hope there is some secret plan that I don't know about right now. We are all in for some very hard times ahead. But the pm goes on TV tonight to feed us bullshit about how his economic plan will lead us to prosperity. Please. Eventually, we will all be rich if we survive, and that will be worth losing our loved ones. We won't be rich anyway.

I was really hoping he was going to make a sombre speech to prepare us, the Australian people, for the battle ahead that we have to face. But no he's all 'everything is great, we'll just get some apprentices. Let's not talky about the casualties'

Eh. Fuck. I am ranting.

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We be ok mate that is the attitude with our PM. He doesn't have any idea how to led. Look at the bushfire he was lost. Look at the Wuhan evacuation he was slow in response. Even countries like Thai/malaysia/Singapore can get their people back faster then us. Even uncle Sam have ban travel to Europe the PM still thinkingthinking!

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Originally Posted by retrospect

I can tell you the entire health system and and health workers at all levels right now are very tense. What is coming is something no one, no matter how experienced and expert, has ever experienced. Everyone knows it but no one will say it because no one believes it.

There is no reason that what has happened in Italy will not happen here. Can some one give me a good reason why it won't happen?

When we look at China, well, China happily sacrifices lives for political reasons. Iran also. So there is good reason to believe we would do better. But not Italy. Italy's case fatally rate is getting up towards 10%. People are dying not because they are too sick, but because there is not enough treatment to go around.

France, Germany, Greece and the rest of Europe will be next. The USA is fucked. They don't have the health system to cope and the horse has bolted there. I think they will be overwhelmed in a few weeks. I hope I am wrong.

Australia is not magically immune. We need to close our borders tomorrow. All the government is talking about is the economic cost. How do you value the lives lost economically? What is the trauma of watching people die that you can't save because there are just too many people dying worth economically? The cost of shutting down everything, literally everything, will be more than the cost of closing the borders now, anyway.

There is still a reasonable chance that we can contain or at least slow the outbreaks we have. Not with open borders. We need wider test criteria and more testing. We need a better, more reliable, validated test. We need to give the infected and isolate them until they are well. South Korea is an example we could follow here.

Today the nsw chief medical officer said we can expect 1.5 million people in nsw to be infected. That is the most optimistic forecast. It could easily be twice that. But that forecast still equates to 180k serious cases requiring ICU level of care to survive. If those cases are spread out evenly over a year, that's 500 new ICU admissions a day. They won't be spread evenly and we have no chance of coping anyway.

This is not the flu. The flu never hospitalises 15% of those infected. Many of those require ventilation and even heat lung bypass to survive this infection.

I really hope there is some secret plan that I don't know about right now. We are all in for some very hard times ahead. But the pm goes on TV tonight to feed us bullshit about how his economic plan will lead us to prosperity. Please. Eventually, we will all be rich if we survive, and that will be worth losing our loved ones. We won't be rich anyway.

I was really hoping he was going to make a sombre speech to prepare us, the Australian people, for the battle ahead that we have to face. But no he's all 'everything is great, we'll just get some apprentices. Let's not talky about the casualties'

Eh. Fuck. I am ranting.

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Europe, USA, Italy even here will have huge numbers of infected. Simply because there is no policing for sick or potentially sick ppl to isolate themselves. So many people have returned from infected countries like Iran, Korea, etc who are supposed to "self isolate" goes right out to work or into the crowds, etc.

While we may slam China for their political harshness. They have shown that strong policing to isolate people is effective in controlling the spread. For a country that has 1.3Billion ppl to have only 80k infected is no mean feat. Look at Italy, while it's closed its borders, people who may be potentially sick are still free to roam around everywhere inside its borders.

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Originally Posted by studsg

Europe, USA, Italy even here will have huge numbers of infected. Simply because there is no policing for sick or potentially sick ppl to isolate themselves. So many people have returned from infected countries like Iran, Korea, etc who are supposed to "self isolate" goes right out to work or into the crowds, etc.

While we may slam China for their political harshness. They have shown that strong policing to isolate people is effective in controlling the spread. For a country that has 1.3Billion ppl to have only 80k infected is no mean feat. Look at Italy, while it's closed its borders, people who may be potentially sick are still free to roam around everywhere inside its borders.

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Yes, this virus is like a big F-you to human rights activists everywhere. When it all boils down, which one do you choose, human rights or human survival?
They called this a "black swan" event for financial markets, I think it will go further than that. Could it change the world order? It is exposing fundamental weaknesses in all countries. Like Italy, always had a huge problem with its ageing population... The oldest median age in all of Europe. That's why the death rate there is so high.
Or the US. Why do you think stock markets are panicking the moment it hit the US? Their medical infrastructure is too fragile, too weak to deal with this scale of epidemic. Only rich people can afford healthcare there. Worse, their Donald is only thinking about keeping his job!
However, you look at China: authoritarian, single-minded, focused on the health of the nation, seems to not give a shit about human-rights. That is the best way to fight this thing!

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Originally Posted by studsg

While we may slam China for their political harshness. They have shown that strong policing to isolate people is effective in controlling the spread. For a country that has 1.3Billion ppl to have only 80k infected is no mean feat. Look at Italy, while it's closed its borders, people who may be potentially sick are still free to roam around everywhere inside its borders.

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And you believe the number they are releasing? Even the people leaving there doesn't believe it.

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Originally Posted by GoldfishMan

Yes, this virus is like a big F-you to human rights activists everywhere. When it all boils down, which one do you choose, human rights or human survival?
They called this a "black swan" event for financial markets, I think it will go further than that. Could it change the world order? It is exposing fundamental weaknesses in all countries. Like Italy, always had a huge problem with its ageing population... The oldest median age in all of Europe. That's why the death rate there is so high.
Or the US. Why do you think stock markets are panicking the moment it hit the US? Their medical infrastructure is too fragile, too weak to deal with this scale of epidemic. Only rich people can afford healthcare there. Worse, their Donald is only thinking about keeping his job!
However, you look at China: authoritarian, single-minded, focused on the health of the nation, seems to not give a shit about human-rights. That is the best way to fight this thing!

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The very nature that you can still discuss this matter in public proves the value in our system. Go figure!!

I think the lesson is there for the world to see and learn and copy fast! How Hong Kong and Singapore could keep the no of infected to below 200 and Macau only got 10 !! Then look at the rest of the world !

Not if or but, it’s just a matter of time and time is fast running out.

She’ll be right mate ain’t right any more and people in the beginning thought this is just a China problem , think again , what would the S Korea and Japanese Government would pay to have the time wind back to January and did things differently.

Ask any of the Italian, German, French or Spanish authorities if they have any regrets Now ?

If Morrison still think we are a lucky country and so far away from everything , we are doomed.

The moment a massive outbreak of infections from the Grand Prix, the Golden Slipper, or half of a NRL or AFL team will need to be quarantined then it would be too late. No one will criticise the Government in doing too much , if we can get through the next few weeks with small number of new infections, the public will thank the government. Is the lesson from Europe not clearly enough ??

Close the bloody border NOW, stop all international travel coming in, closed the schools and bring the holiday forward, cancel the Grand Prix, delay they NRL and AFL seasons for a month or play in an empty stadium , take your pick !

Germany had an extra 800 new cases in one day, now over 2,400!

Italy had reached 15,000 and more than a 1,000 death or something like that.

Morrison really think Westmead can cope with even 10% of that problem??

It’s now or tooooo late !

It's definitely a crazy time.

Remember to wash your hands properly with soap, try not to touch things in public (hand rails etc) and cough into your elbow. These are really simple things, but I am still stunned that people don't do this. I was at Westfield yesterday, and people are still grabbing the handrail on the escalators, then touching their face. People still go to the toilet and then don't wash their hands, or just stick them under the water for a second - That's not washing your hands and it's unhygienic at the best of times. - Rant over.

Hope everyone stays safe.

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Originally Posted by GT101

It's definitely a crazy time.

Remember to wash your hands properly with soap, try not to touch things in public (hand rails etc) and cough into your elbow. These are really simple things, but I am still stunned that people don't do this. I was at Westfield yesterday, and people are still grabbing the handrail on the escalators, then touching their face. People still go to the toilet and then don't wash their hands, or just stick them under the water for a second - That's not washing your hands and it's unhygienic at the best of times. - Rant over.

Hope everyone stays safe.

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Very good points, something very simple like washing your hands regular with soap and for at least 20 seconds will go a long way in keeping your personal hygiene and if everyone is keeping this up and avoid shaking hands and touching surfaces while in public is also very important. The other day I was walking down the street and saw an older gentleman who used his elbow to touch the traffic light button, I think that's smart and I followed that since.

unfortunately, the problem we are facing now in Sydney is that if you want to wear a mask, there ain't no stock any where or you can pay $5.00 each, so who can afford that. And you try to keep a bottle of hand sanitizer handy in your office or in your pocket, try buy one at Woolies !

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Originally Posted by AHLUNGOR

The moment a massive outbreak of infections from the Grand Prix, the Golden Slipper, or half of a NRL or AFL team will need to be quarantined then it would be too late. No one will criticise the Government in doing too much , if we can get through the next few weeks with small number of new infections, the public will thank the government. Is the lesson from Europe not clearly enough ??

Close the bloody border NOW, stop all international travel coming in, closed the schools and bring the holiday forward, cancel the Grand Prix, delay they NRL and AFL seasons for a month or play in an empty stadium , take your pick !

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OK, happy to see some decisive actions so far today:

F1 Grand Prix: Cancelled.

Golden Slipper: well, we won't even get that far, the All Star Miles tomorrow at Caulfield will race with no crowds (same as Hong Kong and Japan for weeks now !), same with Rosehill I assume.

Footy: As advised by Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy that all events with more than 500 people to be banned. Most likely all NRL and AFL matches will be played in empty stadiums, but at least we can still watch them on TV with no risks and still have a punt on the footy TAB !

Next up I hope they will close all the schools from Monday and STOP all international travels !


God Bless Australia !!

Only a recommendation on events over 500 people at present. But I suspect most major bodies will follow it.

Not closing schools is silly.
Kids are going to be big transmitters - mostly asymptomatic when they have it, and less likely to follow good hand hygiene and not touching mouth, nose etc

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Originally Posted by AHLUNGOR

OK, happy to see some decisive actions so far today:

Most likely all NRL and AFL matches will be played in empty stadiums, but at least we can still watch them on TV with no risks and still have a punt on the footy TAB !

God Bless Australia !!

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If that happens, a few NRL cubs mightn't notice much difference. If they played all matches at Olympic Park, they could keep spectators well separated.