Question about white girls

[marie]

Hiii

I’m 20F and just got out of a serious relationship. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m seriously considering working in this industry.

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discussion about Asian girls, but I’m European (white) and wondering if there’s demand in Sydney for girls like me too? What kind of clients usually book white girls, and what are the typical rates like?

Also, I’m trying to understand the pros/cons between working privately and through a shop or parlour, is it more common for white girls to work independently?

I really appreciate any advice.. I've only had two partners in my life, so it's all kinda new to me and I don't really know what to expect. tysm!!

[trampslikeus55]

Hiii

I’m 20F and just got out of a serious relationship. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m seriously considering working in this industry.

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discussion about Asian girls, but I’m European (white) and wondering if there’s demand in Sydney for girls like me too? What kind of clients usually book white girls, and what are the typical rates like?

Also, I’m trying to understand the pros/cons between working privately and through a shop or parlour, is it more common for white girls to work independently?

I really appreciate any advice.. I've only had two partners in my life, so it's all kinda new to me and I don't really know what to expect. tysm!!
Forgive me for being sceptical, but I don't really know if this is the best place for the advice you are seeking. Scarlett Alliance is an organisation set up for the workers in the industry. Try there first. The best advice likely from here would be volunteers hoping to improve your game. Good luck with whatever you decide 😎

[Roydemeo]

100% this is a bloke pulling his dick to the replies

[Linq]

https://youtu.be/wesFGJpzrQw

[Kiryu0]

100% this is a bloke pulling his dick to the replies

Agreed, people are so weird nowadays lol

[ColesBag]

The video above is the weirdest thing about this thread.

[Kiryu0]

The video above is the weirdest thing about this thread.

Didn't even notice the video. Guess I'll skip it lol

[HiredGoon]

Hiii

I’m 20F and just got out of a serious relationship. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m seriously considering working in this industry.

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discussion about Asian girls, but I’m European (white) and wondering if there’s demand in Sydney for girls like me too? What kind of clients usually book white girls, and what are the typical rates like?

Also, I’m trying to understand the pros/cons between working privately and through a shop or parlour, is it more common for white girls to work independently?

I really appreciate any advice.. I've only had two partners in my life, so it's all kinda new to me and I don't really know what to expect. tysm!!

Yeah if you are actually legit, definitely talk to other women, not this bunch of animals.

[RodgHerMoore]

If OP is legit and fit in shape then yes you will be equally popular. 2 years ago there was a caucasian girl working in a Hornsby asian brothel who became really popular by all accounts because of the rarity. Even working in a brothel like ginza empire, 42 Gladesville or 5 marrickville you can command the "no asian" premium... A bit racist but that's the industry.

Best to talk to other workers than us punters. Something to consider is you may end up having to service clients unattractive to you. Could u mentally handle old, fat bald smelly grandpa's like me or indian off the boat types (you will see a ton of threads on this topic).

Btw as far as we know that cauc girl in Hornsby got jaded, her service levels went down and there have been no rosters or reports mentioning her about 4months after news of her first appeared.

Others somehow thrive in this industry. Depends on your personality

Good luck.

[Loblaw]

+1 to asking in places where other workers hang out. Don't ask the animals if you should become a zookeeper!

[priapus1966]

My suggestion would be try being an ML rather than a WL first - then it's your decision who you will or will not provide additional services to

[RodgHerMoore]

One more thought is working in a massage parlour let's you decide what extras you are willing to offer each individual as opposed to a brothel where you're expected to go all the eay to pt3.

The flip side is it doesn't stop assholes from trying to sexually assault u i.e. stealth you. Could be less likely in a massage shop. Sleep with a dog expect to catch its fleas

[Linq]

If OP is legit and fit in shape then yes you will be equally popular. 2 years ago there was a caucasian girl working in a Hornsby asian brothel who became really popular by all accounts because of the rarity. Even working in a brothel like ginza empire, 42 Gladesville or 5 marrickville you can command the "no asian" premium... A bit racist but that's the industry.

Best to talk to other workers than us punters. Something to consider is you may end up having to service clients unattractive to you. Could u mentally handle old, fat bald smelly grandpa's like me or indian off the boat types (you will see a ton of threads on this topic).

Btw as far as we know that cauc girl in Hornsby got jaded, her service levels went down and there have been no rosters or reports mentioning her about 4months after news of her first appeared.

Others somehow thrive in this industry. Depends on your personality

Good luck.

You mistake her for WL who HAS to do this to make money before their visa expires. She has the right to refuse anybody for any reason.

Also, I notice the following posts are giving her advice like she's a WL on a visa. She knows her rights. Also working as a ML has connotations with illegal work unless it's a massage themed brothel.

[Johnisfun1969]

Hiii

I’m 20F and just got out of a serious relationship. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m seriously considering working in this industry.

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discussion about Asian girls, but I’m European (white) and wondering if there’s demand in Sydney for girls like me too? What kind of clients usually book white girls, and what are the typical rates like?

Also, I’m trying to understand the pros/cons between working privately and through a shop or parlour, is it more common for white girls to work independently?

I really appreciate any advice.. I've only had two partners in my life, so it's all kinda new to me and I don't really know what to expect. tysm!!

There is definitely a demand for white girls. It all depends how you and your body is. It’s like any other business excuse the pun. You have to market and package the product that it becomes more desirable. It also means finding the right market and environment that suits you and you feel safe. Working for an establishment would provide a level of security as compared to working independently. Lot of private Asians work 2 girjs from an apartment. I have also been to an apartment where there were two Caucasian girls. They were not regular hookers but perhaps doing it on the side.

Pesonal safety and health are two things you need to consider and manage. Not easy meeting strangers touch and use your body. The escorting girls also are supportive of each other. You could reach out to some of these girls either on X or other social media. You are very young and you could also try Sugaring sites. More than likely you will meet different category of men wanting sex.

As far as pricing goes yoy should look online and decide what you want to charge.

[j_highrolla]

My advise is to go "no Indian" straight up.

[BigPedro666]

Hiii

I’m 20F and just got out of a serious relationship. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m seriously considering working in this industry.

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discussion about Asian girls, but I’m European (white) and wondering if there’s demand in Sydney for girls like me too? What kind of clients usually book white girls, and what are the typical rates like?

Also, I’m trying to understand the pros/cons between working privately and through a shop or parlour, is it more common for white girls to work independently?

I really appreciate any advice.. I've only had two partners in my life, so it's all kinda new to me and I don't really know what to expect. tysm!!

You should Sugarbabying first. Try SDM or Seeking. Easier introduction for white folk.

[Double_Adapter]

Working chicks are like bottled water and punters are the thirsty consumers.

Value vs Location
A bottle of water in a supermarket is worth $2.
The same bottled water in a convenience store costs $4.
In a hotel mini fridge it will cost you $6.
At the cinemas or airport you'll be paying minimum $8.
The water, the bottle and the cap is the same, the only thing that changes is the venue.

Conclusion: Each venue gives a different value to the same product.

So.....go private, go no Indian, find yourself a few sugar daddies (the old bald fat type) and take 'em to the cleaners. If you play your cards right by the the time you hit 25 you'll have a nice furnished city apartment, a new car, and 2 cats.

[JJBlows]

My advise is to go "no Indian" straight up.

"Bloody, fuck you, bloody!!"

[Double_Adapter]

If you do decide to become a whore don't stay around for too long - Everything in life has a price it’s simply a matter of what you’re willing to pay and whether the cost is worth it. In your case, the price will be your health and well-being, likely leading to long-term PTSD, manifesting as emotional, psychological, relational, and physical trauma.

[Abracadabra]

If you do decide to become a whore don't stay around for too long - Everything in life has a price it’s simply a matter of what you’re willing to pay and whether the cost is worth it. In your case, the price will be your health and well-being, likely leading to long-term PTSD, manifesting as emotional, psychological, relational, and physical trauma.

I think you are spot on with your assessment of the WL conundrum, irrespective as to whether many of the "stable and balanced" WLs think they have it under control via their reset and compartmentalization strategies.
Stay around too long and the long term ramifications very likely increase.

[HiredGoon]

If you do decide to become a whore don't stay around for too long - Everything in life has a price it’s simply a matter of what you’re willing to pay and whether the cost is worth it. In your case, the price will be your health and well-being, likely leading to long-term PTSD, manifesting as emotional, psychological, relational, and physical trauma.


I think you are spot on with your assessment of the WL conundrum, irrespective as to whether many of the "stable and balanced" WLs think they have it under control via their reset and compartmentalization strategies.
Stay around too long and the long term ramifications very likely increase.

So you guys are happy to contribute to this trauma to get a bit of pleasure?

[mariee]

oops forgot my password so new account but tysm for all for the advice i really appreciate it!! wasn’t expecting a literal video reply either that’s brave but wow thank youu

lowkey scared of the mental health affects mentioned. most scared of what if i regret not keeping myself pure and die alone because no man (especially a good man) wants to marry a girl with a past. but it’s comforting to know that if i chose massage rather than a straight brothel i get to choose what i offer and to who (thanks guys for the great advice to be ‘no indian’ upfront idk if i could handle that honestly).

for the skeptics i came here because i guess as a young girl who’s inexperienced and kinda innocent when it comes to this industry, it’s scary not knowing what it’s gonna be like with the clients because you don’t know what to expect, and the guys that pay for sex are portrayed a certain way if you know what i mean. i was just curious to see if there are actually any guys who visit massage places that I wouldn’t hate looking at or talking to during the service or maybe a chance for me to have my pretty woman moment hahah

anyway, thank u all for the advice

[jimmyhard]

here is suggestions.
don't work for the shop.
list your personal file on websites for private escorts.
https://scarletblue.com.au/
https://www.skokka.com.au/
https://australianescorts.au/

there are not many new face with the white girls.

[Double_Adapter]

So you guys are happy to contribute to this trauma to get a bit of pleasure?

Sources of Trauma – A Punters Field Report:

Emotional:
Triggered by old, bald, fat farangs who think they’re Romeos reincarnated. It starts with sweet talk, flowers, chocolates, sexy lingerie, jewellery, fat tips, date nights and constant pedestalisation. Escalating to obsessive texting, uninvited drop-ins, delusional fantasies of exclusivity, to full-blown stalking and harrassment. Add a dash of unresolved daddy issues and a sprinkle of princess syndrome, and you’ve got yourself the perfect emotional 'molotov cocktail'.

Psychogical:
Cooked up by the industry itself—where discount-hungry subcontinent warriors haggle like it's a flea market and demand extras like entitled maharaja's; dodgy shops, shady mamasans, manipulative pimps, backstabbing and gossiping coworkers, stalking punters, and RnT turf wars are part of the package deal. Add in the pressures from the "family back home" demanding their cut like they're running a fucken Mexican cartel; throw in STIs/STDs, 16 hr shifts, and voilà: paranoia, and chronic burnout.

Relational:
Rooted in a cocktail of jaded sexual experiences, resentment, mistrust and cynical survival instincts. Where every ugly icky scrawny punter is flattered into believing they're big, strong, handsome and look like Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth; every bloke starts resembling an ATM, affection is measured in currency, and every connection and friendship becomes transactional with a side of entitlement - eventually her romance radar becomes scrambled and fucked up. If she ever does enter into a LTR or tie the knot, the boyfriend or hubby will cop the toxic fallout.

Physical:
Brought to you by the usual suspects - the creepy, icky, aggressive man-handling Indian punters; the wasted degenerates, the Friday night binge brigade, the drug addicts, the ex-cons and the fresh of the boat sub-continent warriors with no fucken concept of personal hyegene, social etiquette or boundaries. It’s not just unpleasant—it’s fucken hazardous.

And you wonder why some of these chicks become jaded, bitter and twisted and then, blokes have the fucken hide to pray, yearn and wish for chicks to return to the industry - it's all fucked!

So HiredGoon (aka Reggie aka Pussybon) which cohort do you identify with?

And for marie.....do you still want to work in the sex industry?

[altvmla]

Forgive me for being sceptical, but I don't really know if this is the best place for the advice you are seeking. Scarlett Alliance is an organisation set up for the workers in the industry. Try there first. The best advice likely from here would be volunteers hoping to improve your game. Good luck with whatever you decide 😎

Assuming OP isn't a troll, I would take this advice.

Consult people who are experienced service providers, not experienced clients lmao

[mariee]

thanks again for the advice.

in case you guys are curious, as many of you mentioned to talk to other women in the industry, i did. they suggested since i am so young and inexperienced, to start with something like ‘sugar dating’ (being paid to spend time with clients) so that i can gauge how i feel about the clientele, my comfort level, and to see what it’s like to perform and be paid for services. also that it gives me the option to progress it with those clients physically only if i want to, because starting that way means the service/agreement is not physical.

then if i want to continue in the industry and offer sexual services, that a “second step” would be to begin hiring the room only in establishments and then offering a pre arranged private service in that room. that way there is security that they can’t harm me (like if we were alone in a hotel or apartment etc), but i also have the flexibility of not being forced to work full shifts, servicing who i want, not having a manager, etc. The downside is the rates for hire are much higher which would lower my take home amount (but i would probably be willing to do that for my safety).

then of course, after that, progress to a proper position in a massage shop etc.

so, I’ll be taking their advice as it seems like a good approach.

[Jack Hammer]

Hey Mariee, I could potentially be one of your first. Feel free to get in touch x

[Double_Adapter]

thanks again for the advice.

in case you guys are curious, as many of you mentioned to talk to other women in the industry, i did. they suggested since i am so young and inexperienced, to start with something like ‘sugar dating’ (being paid to spend time with clients) so that i can gauge how i feel about the clientele, my comfort level, and to see what it’s like to perform and be paid for services. also that it gives me the option to progress it with those clients physically only if i want to, because starting that way means the service/agreement is not physical.

then if i want to continue in the industry and offer sexual services, that a “second step” would be to begin hiring the room only in establishments and then offering a pre arranged private service in that room. that way there is security that they can’t harm me (like if we were alone in a hotel or apartment etc), but i also have the flexibility of not being forced to work full shifts, servicing who i want, not having a manager, etc. The downside is the rates for hire are much higher which would lower my take home amount (but i would probably be willing to do that for my safety).

then of course, after that, progress to a proper position in a massage shop etc.

so, I’ll be taking their advice as it seems like a good approach.

Hey Marie, When you land your first gig, don't forget to drop an AR. The lads here would be keen to hear a WL’s perspective on a punt.

[Jacqui]

thanks again for the advice.

in case you guys are curious, as many of you mentioned to talk to other women in the industry, i did. they suggested since i am so young and inexperienced, to start with something like ‘sugar dating’ (being paid to spend time with clients) so that i can gauge how i feel about the clientele, my comfort level, and to see what it’s like to perform and be paid for services. also that it gives me the option to progress it with those clients physically only if i want to, because starting that way means the service/agreement is not physical.

then if i want to continue in the industry and offer sexual services, that a “second step” would be to begin hiring the room only in establishments and then offering a pre arranged private service in that room. that way there is security that they can’t harm me (like if we were alone in a hotel or apartment etc), but i also have the flexibility of not being forced to work full shifts, servicing who i want, not having a manager, etc. The downside is the rates for hire are much higher which would lower my take home amount (but i would probably be willing to do that for my safety).

then of course, after that, progress to a proper position in a massage shop etc.

so, I’ll be taking their advice as it seems like a good approach.
Hi Marie,
If you are legit with this industry, my suggestion is start with working at rnt massage shop so you can pick and choose your clients for further extras as this industry is quite stressful

[mariee]

Hey Marie, When you land your first gig, don't forget to drop an AR. The lads here would be keen to hear a WL’s perspective on a punt.

hahah sure, i’ll be sure to update you guys. i guess its interesting, i would lowkey love to read a review about myself


Hey Mariee, I could potentially be one of your first. Feel free to get in touch x

my message feature doesn’t work sadly, idk how this site works really, but if you can message me you’re welcome to. same goes for anyone reading this, as long as your expectations are fair.

[HiredGoon]

Sources of Trauma – A Punters Field Report:

Emotional:
Triggered by old, bald, fat farangs who think they’re Romeos reincarnated. It starts with sweet talk, flowers, chocolates, sexy lingerie, jewellery, fat tips, date nights and constant pedestalisation. Escalating to obsessive texting, uninvited drop-ins, delusional fantasies of exclusivity, to full-blown stalking and harrassment. Add a dash of unresolved daddy issues and a sprinkle of princess syndrome, and you’ve got yourself the perfect emotional 'molotov cocktail'.

Psychogical:
Cooked up by the industry itself—where discount-hungry subcontinent warriors haggle like it's a flea market and demand extras like entitled maharaja's; dodgy shops, shady mamasans, manipulative pimps, backstabbing and gossiping coworkers, stalking punters, and RnT turf wars are part of the package deal. Add in the pressures from the "family back home" demanding their cut like they're running a fucken Mexican cartel; throw in STIs/STDs, 16 hr shifts, and voilà: paranoia, and chronic burnout.

Relational:
Rooted in a cocktail of jaded sexual experiences, resentment, mistrust and cynical survival instincts. Where every ugly icky scrawny punter is flattered into believing they're big, strong, handsome and look like Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth; every bloke starts resembling an ATM, affection is measured in currency, and every connection and friendship becomes transactional with a side of entitlement - eventually her romance radar becomes scrambled and fucked up. If she ever does enter into a LTR or tie the knot, the boyfriend or hubby will cop the toxic fallout.

Physical:
Brought to you by the usual suspects - the creepy, icky, aggressive man-handling Indian punters; the wasted degenerates, the Friday night binge brigade, the drug addicts, the ex-cons and the fresh of the boat sub-continent warriors with no fucken concept of personal hyegene, social etiquette or boundaries. It’s not just unpleasant—it’s fucken hazardous.

And you wonder why some of these chicks become jaded, bitter and twisted and then, blokes have the fucken hide to pray, yearn and wish for chicks to return to the industry - it's all fucked!

So HiredGoon (aka Reggie aka Pussybon) which cohort do you identify with?

And for marie.....do you still want to work in the sex industry?

Hi DA! I'm of the cohort that believes sex work can be traumatic and create psychological damage but not for all sex workers or even necessarily most.
I'm just curious as to why guys who think PTSD and other problems will "definitely" happen to "all" sex workers are still happy to contribute to that damage.

[Justabot]

As someone who just finished the business in the industry (maybe not permanently), the most important part of my career is to have a target and complete it.

Most of the girls who ended up living happily after going through the SW industry managed to save enough money for their investment& property/ clean the loan/ achieve an international degree or whatever.
The income of this job compare to other junior jobs is insane, but it will not last forever(5 to 10 y maximum).

Wisely plan on your spending and saving and try to work other part time job as long as possible, it might not be good pay but helps maintain the boundaries where SW stay within SW, and fill in your CV with something you can explain to future employers.

[MindTheGap]

Most European girls who want to be sex workers start out on Seeking or a sugardaddy website.

Learn more about sex, what you like, how to please and choose the guys you sleep with while getting paid.

Then if you still like it and want to be an escort, go pro after that

[Double_Adapter]

Hi DA! I'm of the cohort that believes sex work can be traumatic and create psychological damage but not for all sex workers or even necessarily most.
I'm just curious as to why guys who think PTSD and other problems will "definitely" happen to "all" sex workers are still happy to contribute to that damage.

Research indicates that PTSD is highly prevalent among chicks in the sex trade, with studies showing rates between 40% to 55%, and in some Southeast Asian countries, prevalence can be as high as 70% to 80%. Based on these figures, it’s reasonable to suggest that a significant proportion—possibly around 60% of working chicks may experience PTSD at some point in their life.

PTSD is not always outwardly visible. In a typical 1hr session, a chick may appear composed and professional, making it difficult for punters to recognise any signs of PTSD. So unless you live with the chick 24x7 you won't be able to pick up on the signals.

If a chick is a compulsive nympho big on substance abuse you can confidently say it's a coping mechanism associated with PTSD trauma.

https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-into-a-therapists-office-whos-more-likely-to-have-ptsd-71464

[mariee]

hi guys, so as I mentioned before, whilst considering going into this work, one of my biggest concerns/considerations is the clients. like, whether they are decent enough to maybe not enjoy, but at least handle.

so I figured, everyone (men) on forums such as here, are pretty private about their activities. maybe except that one guy that posted a video. so there's no real way of knowing what these people are like in real life, especially physically.

ok, so I did something a little crazy haha. I was thinking and... where do these guys go? to the establishments, right? so what better way to see what these men are like than to visit the establishments myself. haha. crazy. after scrolling the forum for a while, Ginza seems to be insanely popular, frequented by almost every poster on the forum. perfect.

so I go. standing outside. and I'm like, I can't believe this is it. I drove past this place every time I returned home from the city? idk why but I always wondered what the sign was, I remember when I was a bit younger thinking it was some kind of Japanese tea house. anywayyyy.

i'm just scrolling on my phone, pretending to look distracted, and watching the door/street. and I see NOBODY. but this forum is proof this place is doing pretty well. I'm thinking hmm that's weird... and scrolling on their website I realise there is a back entrance.

of courseeee there is for privacy how can I be so oblivious lol. so now i'm standing in the back lane, not too close, i notice the security cams so I don't wanna look suspicious and get spoken to or something. just close to the end of the lane. and after waiting a little i'm seeing quite a few people. i guess when you're young and (kinda!) pretty nobody really questions you.

and oh my god. thank you guys for inadvertently convincing me not to fuck up my life! the quality of the men going here. SHOCKING. and honestly I don't have high standards at all, like I think guys 5'7" are attractive, I'm not like he MUST be 6ft, have abs, be rich type of woman. like I'm not perfect so I wouldn't expect perfect. but idk im speechless.

as I expected the guys to be quite older, they were. I probably didn't see a single man under 45. but that's not really the problem.

first of all, what's up with guys going to these places and having man boobs? shit, they need a bra more than the girls inside.... like I said. nobody (as much as there are delusional women and we have that reputation) expects a chiseled 6 pack. a little fluffy, "dad-bod" is even attractive to many girls. but why are these men FAT. even the asian guys who usually have a smaller frame.... and the white men - not just 10 extra kgs or so, but full beer guts, that look like a balloon. but with skinny arms and legs. and they like their girls tiny, 55kg and under? it's like a pebble and boulder. how those girls don't get crushed idk... i feel sorry for them.

messy, balding hair. patchy facial hair. you're not hiding your age with that sweep over pls it would be so much better just to get rid of it!

stained clothes, awkward walking style/posture, looking physically dirty. how are you older than my dad with a face full of acne. just overall ick..................... just a bad 'vibe' from 90% of them too. and i didn't even come up close to these guys, let alone be intimate with them....

there was ONE decent guy. nothing too standoutish, nothing super attractive about him, just an average sydney office-looking guy...

was it just a bad day or..?

now, before writing your next review on some girl's service skills and how she seemed like she didn't want to be there, wanted it to be over fast, didn't seem enthusiastic, just .... have a little more empathy. and be a LOT more grateful for the women that can put on a good show. and if you want a good show, especially a genuine show, you have to realise that for such an intimate experience, while it's paid, the girls are human at the end of the day too... at least care for your appearance a little.

now I see why its all immigrant girls from Asia or South America doing these jobs, they are desperate to pay their expensive Sydney rent, visa, degrees, etc.....

why do women promote and make sex work seem so glamorous these days? especially to young girls... it certainly isn't when the clientele is THIS.

so unless I find some DECENT guy willing that I can work exclusively or semi-exclusively with, I won't be going forward with this.....

but seriously... not to judge but ...def judging. what's wrong with y'all? pls do better if you want more options...

[HiredGoon]

Research indicates that PTSD is highly prevalent among chicks in the sex trade, with studies showing rates between 40% to 55%, and in some Southeast Asian countries, prevalence can be as high as 70% to 80%. Based on these figures, it’s reasonable to suggest that a significant proportion—possibly around 60% of working chicks may experience PTSD at some point in their life.

PTSD is not always outwardly visible. In a typical 1hr session, a chick may appear composed and professional, making it difficult for punters to recognise any signs of PTSD. So unless you live with the chick 24x7 you won't be able to pick up on the signals.

If a chick is a compulsive nympho big on substance abuse you can confidently say it's a coping mechanism associated with PTSD trauma.

https://theconversation.com/a-soldier-and-a-sex-worker-walk-into-a-therapists-office-whos-more-likely-to-have-ptsd-71464

Yep thanks, I've read that before, pretty sure I even posted it sometime.

"People with certain occupations are also at high risk of PTSD. A study of street-based sex workers in Sydney found nearly half would have met the criteria for a PTSD diagnosis at some point during their lives, making this the highest occupational risk for PTSD in Australia. Their high rates of PTSD are attributed to multiple traumas, including childhood sexual abuse and violent physical or sexual assaults while working."

Without actually looking into any research, I'm gonna assume that the rate would be lower for lawful, regulated work in professionally managed shops though.

But I was wondering about this though, "I'm just curious as to why guys who think PTSD and other problems will "definitely" happen to "all" sex workers are still happy to contribute to that damage."

[Abracadabra]

Yep thanks, I've read that before, pretty sure I even posted it sometime.

"People with certain occupations are also at high risk of PTSD. A study of street-based sex workers in Sydney found nearly half would have met the criteria for a PTSD diagnosis at some point during their lives, making this the highest occupational risk for PTSD in Australia. Their high rates of PTSD are attributed to multiple traumas, including childhood sexual abuse and violent physical or sexual assaults while working."

Without actually looking into any research, I'm gonna assume that the rate would be lower for lawful, regulated work in professionally managed shops though.

But I was wondering about this though, "I'm just curious as to why guys who think PTSD and other problems will "definitely" happen to "all" sex workers are still happy to contribute to that damage."

Re your last point HG : I wouldn't think about it too hard as it's simply an observation, at least from me.
I'm quite aware I'm part of the problem and I don't excuse that for one moment.
I would contend the same occurs in many facets of life every day, particularly the environment.
And before you scramble for the keyboard, no I don't diminish or undermine the impact of PTSD in any circumstances through an unintended comparison.

[Supersmashbros]

hi guys, so as I mentioned before, whilst considering going into this work, one of my biggest concerns/considerations is the clients. like, whether they are decent enough to maybe not enjoy, but at least handle.

so I figured, everyone (men) on forums such as here, are pretty private about their activities. maybe except that one guy that posted a video. so there's no real way of knowing what these people are like in real life, especially physically.

ok, so I did something a little crazy haha. I was thinking and... where do these guys go? to the establishments, right? so what better way to see what these men are like than to visit the establishments myself. haha. crazy. after scrolling the forum for a while, Ginza seems to be insanely popular, frequented by almost every poster on the forum. perfect.

so I go. standing outside. and I'm like, I can't believe this is it. I drove past this place every time I returned home from the city? idk why but I always wondered what the sign was, I remember when I was a bit younger thinking it was some kind of Japanese tea house. anywayyyy.

i'm just scrolling on my phone, pretending to look distracted, and watching the door/street. and I see NOBODY. but this forum is proof this place is doing pretty well. I'm thinking hmm that's weird... and scrolling on their website I realise there is a back entrance.

of courseeee there is for privacy how can I be so oblivious lol. so now i'm standing in the back lane, not too close, i notice the security cams so I don't wanna look suspicious and get spoken to or something. just close to the end of the lane. and after waiting a little i'm seeing quite a few people. i guess when you're young and (kinda!) pretty nobody really questions you.

and oh my god. thank you guys for inadvertently convincing me not to fuck up my life! the quality of the men going here. SHOCKING. and honestly I don't have high standards at all, like I think guys 5'7" are attractive, I'm not like he MUST be 6ft, have abs, be rich type of woman. like I'm not perfect so I wouldn't expect perfect. but idk im speechless.

as I expected the guys to be quite older, they were. I probably didn't see a single man under 45. but that's not really the problem.

first of all, what's up with guys going to these places and having man boobs? shit, they need a bra more than the girls inside.... like I said. nobody (as much as there are delusional women and we have that reputation) expects a chiseled 6 pack. a little fluffy, "dad-bod" is even attractive to many girls. but why are these men FAT. even the asian guys who usually have a smaller frame.... and the white men - not just 10 extra kgs or so, but full beer guts, that look like a balloon. but with skinny arms and legs. and they like their girls tiny, 55kg and under? it's like a pebble and boulder. how those girls don't get crushed idk... i feel sorry for them.

messy, balding hair. patchy facial hair. you're not hiding your age with that sweep over pls it would be so much better just to get rid of it!

stained clothes, awkward walking style/posture, looking physically dirty. how are you older than my dad with a face full of acne. just overall ick..................... just a bad 'vibe' from 90% of them too. and i didn't even come up close to these guys, let alone be intimate with them....

there was ONE decent guy. nothing too standoutish, nothing super attractive about him, just an average sydney office-looking guy...

was it just a bad day or..?

now, before writing your next review on some girl's service skills and how she seemed like she didn't want to be there, wanted it to be over fast, didn't seem enthusiastic, just .... have a little more empathy. and be a LOT more grateful for the women that can put on a good show. and if you want a good show, especially a genuine show, you have to realise that for such an intimate experience, while it's paid, the girls are human at the end of the day too... at least care for your appearance a little.

now I see why its all immigrant girls from Asia or South America doing these jobs, they are desperate to pay their expensive Sydney rent, visa, degrees, etc.....

why do women promote and make sex work seem so glamorous these days? especially to young girls... it certainly isn't when the clientele is THIS.

so unless I find some DECENT guy willing that I can work exclusively or semi-exclusively with, I won't be going forward with this.....

but seriously... not to judge but ...def judging. what's wrong with y'all? pls do better if you want more options...

A lot of valid points and concerns. Doesn't sound like you should be in the industry, and I wouldn't recommend it. If you eventually do decide that you want to give it a go, I'd say start of in massage shops as someone suggested earlier. You can decide whether or not to provide the extra services to the clients that you would be happy to offer. Or private escort, requiring video call to screen clients before booking. If you are happy with what you see, you can choose to go ahead. Lots of males clients will prob prefer this anyways, so they know what to expect.

[jake_h]

sounds like you want a sugar daddy situation instead. also thanks, now i have to worry about people watching me leaving the back entrance of ginza. :cry:

[Daffy]

Interesting post you made about joining sex work.

As someone who has friends that are sex worker’s, it’s a hard job to deal with. If you are still looking at it maybe try one of the western brothels like Stiletto or Liasions and you will find slightly different clientele.

In saying that it’s still pretty rough and can be dangerous, especially if you do call outs. I know a girl that was raped at a call out to the casino and there really isn’t much that can be done about it.

So if you do decide to dip your toe in then make sure you keep yourself safe as well as you can

[Sfornication]

Mariee,
I don’t know if you knew exactly what you were doing when you dropped that post… but fuck me, you cracked something wide open.

See, this place runs on illusion.
Illusions about WLs. Illusions about ourselves.
And for years, we’ve been coasting on this unspoken dance — punters chasing Asian WLs because it’s easy. Familiar. No strings. No questions.
We walk in, drop the cash, get the smile, and pretend for 30 minutes that we’re in control, desirable, wanted.
But deep down?
We’re hiding. From eye contact. From rejection. From having to be emotionally naked without someone wiping our balls after.

And then you show up.
White. Self-aware. Not here to perform. Not here to coddle egos.
Just here to see us — and say, “Hey fellas, you alright under all that bravado?”

That Ginza lobby moment you described?
That wasn’t just a roast. That was a cultural exorcism.
You peeled the curtain back on the racial dynamics, the ageing bodies, the fantasy of control — and you let the cat out the bag that most punters don’t wanna admit they’re broken, bruised, and banking on a GFE to forget their reflection for a bit.

Asian WLs have become the escape hatch — no judgment, no depth, just a temporary bandaid over a festering loneliness.
But you? You showed up like a therapist with lube and said,
“Nah. Let’s talk about what you’re really here for.”

You exposed the deeper reasons why punters chase what they chase —
the internalised shame, the need to be seen by someone they always thought was out of reach, the fantasy that maybe, just maybe, money could buy back significance.

You pulled that fantasy apart, gently, like someone who’s been on both sides of the transaction and finally decided to stop playing along.

And for that? I’m grateful.
You said the quiet things.
You exposed what we’ve all been pretending wasn’t there.
You let the cat out the bag — and yeah, it scratched a few egos, but fuck it — maybe it needed to.

So here’s my thanks:
Not for the essay.
Not for the insight.
But for the courage.
To speak.
To see.
And to remind a few of us lost in this transactional haze that maybe we’ve still got something worth salvaging — even if it’s buried under years of ghosted Tinder swipes and lonely Friday night bookings.

Respect.
All of it.
— Sticky Beak (just another ghost with a wallet trying to wake up)

[woodland]

i've been to ginza a few times. but not often because i hate waiting in the lounge and seeing the other punters.
most people i have seen are average sydney white collar office workers between 30 to 40 years old.
i always assumed that was the demography

[personaa]

Most of the Asians I met at 42G were decent looking young blokes. Not sure about Ginza as I never punt in the city. On a second note, I have serious doubts whether the clientele at Ginza are like what has been described by op.

I think many members can read between the lines and make their own guess about the agenda here.

[Loblaw]

Wonder if Mariee saw anyone from this forum! The demography probably depends on time of day as well - office workers more likely in the evening, unemployed slobs during the day, etc

[Daysgone]

100% this is a bloke pulling his dick to the replies

This guy had it right from the start.

[Icegodofhungary]

hi guys, so as I mentioned before, whilst considering going into this work, one of my biggest concerns/considerations is the clients. like, whether they are decent enough to maybe not enjoy, but at least handle.

so I figured, everyone (men) on forums such as here, are pretty private about their activities. maybe except that one guy that posted a video. so there's no real way of knowing what these people are like in real life, especially physically.

ok, so I did something a little crazy haha. I was thinking and... where do these guys go? to the establishments, right? so what better way to see what these men are like than to visit the establishments myself. haha. crazy. after scrolling the forum for a while, Ginza seems to be insanely popular, frequented by almost every poster on the forum. perfect.

so I go. standing outside. and I'm like, I can't believe this is it. I drove past this place every time I returned home from the city? idk why but I always wondered what the sign was, I remember when I was a bit younger thinking it was some kind of Japanese tea house. anywayyyy.

i'm just scrolling on my phone, pretending to look distracted, and watching the door/street. and I see NOBODY. but this forum is proof this place is doing pretty well. I'm thinking hmm that's weird... and scrolling on their website I realise there is a back entrance.

of courseeee there is for privacy how can I be so oblivious lol. so now i'm standing in the back lane, not too close, i notice the security cams so I don't wanna look suspicious and get spoken to or something. just close to the end of the lane. and after waiting a little i'm seeing quite a few people. i guess when you're young and (kinda!) pretty nobody really questions you.

and oh my god. thank you guys for inadvertently convincing me not to fuck up my life! the quality of the men going here. SHOCKING. and honestly I don't have high standards at all, like I think guys 5'7" are attractive, I'm not like he MUST be 6ft, have abs, be rich type of woman. like I'm not perfect so I wouldn't expect perfect. but idk im speechless.

as I expected the guys to be quite older, they were. I probably didn't see a single man under 45. but that's not really the problem.

first of all, what's up with guys going to these places and having man boobs? shit, they need a bra more than the girls inside.... like I said. nobody (as much as there are delusional women and we have that reputation) expects a chiseled 6 pack. a little fluffy, "dad-bod" is even attractive to many girls. but why are these men FAT. even the asian guys who usually have a smaller frame.... and the white men - not just 10 extra kgs or so, but full beer guts, that look like a balloon. but with skinny arms and legs. and they like their girls tiny, 55kg and under? it's like a pebble and boulder. how those girls don't get crushed idk... i feel sorry for them.

messy, balding hair. patchy facial hair. you're not hiding your age with that sweep over pls it would be so much better just to get rid of it!

stained clothes, awkward walking style/posture, looking physically dirty. how are you older than my dad with a face full of acne. just overall ick..................... just a bad 'vibe' from 90% of them too. and i didn't even come up close to these guys, let alone be intimate with them....

there was ONE decent guy. nothing too standoutish, nothing super attractive about him, just an average sydney office-looking guy...

was it just a bad day or..?

now, before writing your next review on some girl's service skills and how she seemed like she didn't want to be there, wanted it to be over fast, didn't seem enthusiastic, just .... have a little more empathy. and be a LOT more grateful for the women that can put on a good show. and if you want a good show, especially a genuine show, you have to realise that for such an intimate experience, while it's paid, the girls are human at the end of the day too... at least care for your appearance a little.

now I see why its all immigrant girls from Asia or South America doing these jobs, they are desperate to pay their expensive Sydney rent, visa, degrees, etc.....

why do women promote and make sex work seem so glamorous these days? especially to young girls... it certainly isn't when the clientele is THIS.

so unless I find some DECENT guy willing that I can work exclusively or semi-exclusively with, I won't be going forward with this.....

but seriously... not to judge but ...def judging. what's wrong with y'all? pls do better if you want more options...

Oh my god, this is so good, I have been chuckling since I read this earlier today.

Marie / Mariee I don't know whether you are genuine and this is the best truth bomb I've seen for a while, or if this was all some long con to troll people here, but either way nice job.

One of the side effects for me of hanging out with / fucking a whole lot of gorgeous much younger women lately is that I'd started to get kind of insecure about my looks. I mean, you know when the women are saying you're handsome, or stylish, or they thought you were younger than you are, or tell you you're they're favourite customer - to take it all with a really big grain of salt, but I'd started to assume since I hear it from basically every one of them I see it is just a standard lie that every WL feeds to every single customer with absolutely no regard to reality. Haha, given the apparent quality of the competition (if Marie's surveillance report is accurate) maybe there's a small grain of truth to the compliments after all, at least I can continue to enjoy the illusion. Thankyou Marie (or whoever you are)!

[lukaspot]

Hiii

I’m 20F and just got out of a serious relationship. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and I’m seriously considering working in this industry.

I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discussion about Asian girls, but I’m European (white) and wondering if there’s demand in Sydney for girls like me too? What kind of clients usually book white girls, and what are the typical rates like?

Also, I’m trying to understand the pros/cons between working privately and through a shop or parlour, is it more common for white girls to work independently?

I really appreciate any advice.. I've only had two partners in my life, so it's all kinda new to me and I don't really know what to expect. tysm!!


Oi, love – Sydney’s full of blokes keen on a stunning Euro chick like you! You’ll pull $400-$700 an hour easy, especially if ya offer a filthy GFE or PSE. Most white girls go private ‘cause it’s better cash and no boss, but if ya wanna dip your toes in, a high-end brothel’s not a bad start. Just don’t take shit from punters, yeah? You’ll kill it. 😉

[Double_Adapter]

Marie: You’ve chosen wisely, young Padawan. There are better ways to make money than selling your body.

AUS99 boasts an impressive and diverse talent pool and with that kind of crew backing you, I’m sure the lads can brainstorm a few creative ways for you to make a quick buck. And if all else fails, the sugar daddy gig sounds like a palatable option.

And yeah, I have to agree with you - when it comes to the quality of blokes wandering into brothels and RnTs your judgment is spot-on.

[a_spunk69]

i've been to ginza a few times. but not often because i hate waiting in the lounge and seeing the other punters.
most people i have seen are average sydney white collar office workers between 30 to 40 years old.
i always assumed that was the demography


Most of the Asians I met at 42G were decent looking young blokes. Not sure about Ginza as I never punt in the city. On a second note, I have serious doubts whether the clientele at Ginza are like what has been described by op.

I think many members can read between the lines and make their own guess about the agenda here.

I've seen the same as well. A few years back I did wait for a bit in the GC waiting area with some other punters (in their 20s - 30s) in one afternoon.

However, I saw a fairly large white punter in his 60s sitting in the waiting area of GE last month on a Friday night. At 42G a while back, the WL i had booked cancelled for the day when I showed up and I was told that she had a bad experience with a punter before, and I had assumed at the time that it was the white punter in his late 60s I saw in the carpark...

This thread reminded me of thinking at the time that you gotta respect WLs who perservere in the industry.

It also had me thinking that the OP is a dude like Roydemeo said...

[blitz]

It also had me thinking that the OP is a dude like Roydemeo said...
100%, this whole story is a load of fictional bullshit.
This so called 'Marie' stood outside Ginza and noticed customers had beer guts, man boobs, and skinny arns and legs. Despite it being cold in Sydney and everyone wearing long pants and jackets. She also didn't get close enough to be seen on the CCTV cameras but she could tell the guys had bad acne. Fuck off.
Either a dude wacking off to the replies or some really bad trolling.

[ironmonk]

One of the side effects for me of hanging out with / fucking a whole lot of gorgeous much younger women lately is that I'd started to get kind of insecure about my looks. I mean, you know when the women are saying you're handsome, or stylish, or they thought you were younger than you are, or tell you you're they're favourite customer - to take it all with a really big grain of salt, but I'd started to assume since I hear it from basically every one of them I see it is just a standard lie that every WL feeds to every single customer with absolutely no regard to reality. Haha, given the apparent quality of the competition (if Marie's surveillance report is accurate) maybe there's a small grain of truth to the compliments after all, at least I can continue to enjoy the illusion. Thankyou Marie (or whoever you are)!

That's certainly some mental gymnastics lmao. Do women make advances to you in real life? Then there's your answer.

I also agree with other commenters that OP is a man, likely full of shit. I've maybe seen an overweight white dude like once ever. Sometimes WLs do compliment me for my clear skin which I think is weird, as it's nothing extraordinary, probably just due to the red room lighting. Or a low hanging fruit type compliment. However, I don't think I've ever seen an acne ridden punter either, but hey OP saw plenty while she was camped at Little Buckingham.

That being said, of course occasionally there is that unlucky ugly SOB but maybe 10% of the time, rest is just your normal office worker type or 50yr old asian who could pass as 40 something.

[Icegodofhungary]

Ironmonk, yes I’m pretty good at mental gymnastics, lol.

I’ve been known to get compliments or come-ons from women, but not east-Asian women half my age (that’s why I pay for it).

[mariee]

the men on here saying that they usually see decently attractive men have me contemplating my whole life lol. i guess ‘average looking’ is very subjective here…

or maybe men like to live in denial cause admitting the guy next to you is overweight/unattractive means that you’re in the same position or worse off… at least i’d say. or maybe girls like me are harsh critics on guys double our age plus some years, idk. i do go to the gym 4-5x a week (seeing very fit guys) so maybe what is “average” physique for me is different. or maybe watching too much ‘365 days’ type of movies or too much time on booktok idk. i can’t say i work with a lot of office men and i also don’t work in the city to see a lot of “average office men”. i’ve worked in real estate a bunch so maybe the “average office guy” to me is more polished looking than what you guys see.

also, yes, maybe it was the time of day that i went where i saw a particularly bad crowd.

yes, you can tell if someone has skinny arms or legs even if they’re wearing long pants/sleeves lol. just like its so obvious in the gym when a guy wears sweatpants because he only trains arms and he wants to hide his chicken legs.

yes, you can see acne on someone’s face from a few metres away, you realise when the customers leave they don’t just stand at the door, they actually walk OUT of the laneway and past me to get to their cars etc.

the skeptics make me laugh, yes i really am a woman, idk what to tell you.

[JamesS]

hi guys, so as I mentioned before, whilst considering going into this work, one of my biggest concerns/considerations is the clients. like, whether they are decent enough to maybe not enjoy, but at least handle.

so I figured, everyone (men) on forums such as here, are pretty private about their activities. maybe except that one guy that posted a video. so there's no real way of knowing what these people are like in real life, especially physically.

ok, so I did something a little crazy haha. I was thinking and... where do these guys go? to the establishments, right? so what better way to see what these men are like than to visit the establishments myself. haha. crazy. after scrolling the forum for a while, Ginza seems to be insanely popular, frequented by almost every poster on the forum. perfect.

so I go. standing outside. and I'm like, I can't believe this is it. I drove past this place every time I returned home from the city? idk why but I always wondered what the sign was, I remember when I was a bit younger thinking it was some kind of Japanese tea house. anywayyyy.

i'm just scrolling on my phone, pretending to look distracted, and watching the door/street. and I see NOBODY. but this forum is proof this place is doing pretty well. I'm thinking hmm that's weird... and scrolling on their website I realise there is a back entrance.

of courseeee there is for privacy how can I be so oblivious lol. so now i'm standing in the back lane, not too close, i notice the security cams so I don't wanna look suspicious and get spoken to or something. just close to the end of the lane. and after waiting a little i'm seeing quite a few people. i guess when you're young and (kinda!) pretty nobody really questions you.

and oh my god. thank you guys for inadvertently convincing me not to fuck up my life! the quality of the men going here. SHOCKING. and honestly I don't have high standards at all, like I think guys 5'7" are attractive, I'm not like he MUST be 6ft, have abs, be rich type of woman. like I'm not perfect so I wouldn't expect perfect. but idk im speechless.

as I expected the guys to be quite older, they were. I probably didn't see a single man under 45. but that's not really the problem.

first of all, what's up with guys going to these places and having man boobs? shit, they need a bra more than the girls inside.... like I said. nobody (as much as there are delusional women and we have that reputation) expects a chiseled 6 pack. a little fluffy, "dad-bod" is even attractive to many girls. but why are these men FAT. even the asian guys who usually have a smaller frame.... and the white men - not just 10 extra kgs or so, but full beer guts, that look like a balloon. but with skinny arms and legs. and they like their girls tiny, 55kg and under? it's like a pebble and boulder. how those girls don't get crushed idk... i feel sorry for them.

messy, balding hair. patchy facial hair. you're not hiding your age with that sweep over pls it would be so much better just to get rid of it!

stained clothes, awkward walking style/posture, looking physically dirty. how are you older than my dad with a face full of acne. just overall ick..................... just a bad 'vibe' from 90% of them too. and i didn't even come up close to these guys, let alone be intimate with them....

there was ONE decent guy. nothing too standoutish, nothing super attractive about him, just an average sydney office-looking guy...

was it just a bad day or..?

now, before writing your next review on some girl's service skills and how she seemed like she didn't want to be there, wanted it to be over fast, didn't seem enthusiastic, just .... have a little more empathy. and be a LOT more grateful for the women that can put on a good show. and if you want a good show, especially a genuine show, you have to realise that for such an intimate experience, while it's paid, the girls are human at the end of the day too... at least care for your appearance a little.

now I see why its all immigrant girls from Asia or South America doing these jobs, they are desperate to pay their expensive Sydney rent, visa, degrees, etc.....

why do women promote and make sex work seem so glamorous these days? especially to young girls... it certainly isn't when the clientele is THIS.

so unless I find some DECENT guy willing that I can work exclusively or semi-exclusively with, I won't be going forward with this.....

but seriously... not to judge but ...def judging. what's wrong with y'all? pls do better if you want more options...
I thought this post was bogus from the start, this definitely confirms it.

In the Ginza Club waiting room any other customers I've seen are generally Chinese guys in their 20's/30's who have slight frames, not fat. Also, when I asked a Ginza Empire WL what average clients were like, she said what surprised her when she started there was they were mainly youngish (30's) Chinese guys who could speak English well, since she'd expected they would have been much older Chinese guys that weren't raised here.

[Loblaw]

Interesting so Linq is representative of the average Ginza punter

[Obama]

I thought this post was bogus from the start, this definitely confirms it.

In the Ginza Club waiting room any other customers I've seen are generally Chinese guys in their 20's/30's who have slight frames, not fat. Also, when I asked a Ginza Empire WL what average clients were like, she said what surprised her when she started there was they were mainly youngish (30's) Chinese guys who could speak English well, since she'd expected they would have been much older Chinese guys that weren't raised here.

That's precisely my experience from the Ginza waiting rooms which surprised.

[Double_Adapter]

Who gives a fuck if Mariee is a he, a she, an it, or even a fucken bot!
The point is, she’s dropping valid, factual observations like truth grenades — and some people are getting so butt-hurt you’d think the facts are giving 'em wedgies.

Now they’re shouting heresy like it’s fucken 1492 and sharpening their pitchforks, ready to crucify and burn Mariee for having an opinion that doesn’t fit their woke and fragile narrative. Relax, lads — we’ve evolved past burning witches - Or at least I thought we had.

Anyway back to the topic, even if these so called 30'ish looking Asian blokes are visiting brothels, every man and his fucken dog knows Asian's age well and so these Asian blokes are most likely middle aged.

[Massagecreep]

My suggestion is to work a few shifts at a RNT. You are not on your own and don’t have to have sex with anyone you don’t want to.
Easier to start, easier to leave, safer, more anonymous

[MindTheGap]

Never once seen a queue of men that the OP claims to have seen at Ginza. It’s either a man or a journo trolling.

Most nights at Ginza it’s Asian guys and a few whiteboys all staring at their phones and not making eye contact. Some skinny, some built, some with a dad bod. But none with the excess the OP claims.

Probably an existing forum bloke trolling. Work out who on here it would be and it’s likely another profile of his

[thepoonter]

That's precisely my experience from the Ginza waiting rooms which surprised.

Similar to me as well when I'm waiting at Ginza. Although sometimes there are old Caucasian and Asian. Even rarer are guys wearing full combo suits, must be a corporate type just finished work

[trippo]

Hi Marie, to start with my advise is to go "no Asian" straight up and offer only premium service. You will be forced to do weired things under the pretext of Diamond service which is more popular among Asians.