Punters using recording devices in sessions without concent

[Gregorious]

I recently had a conversation with a beautiful young lady I'd just visited.

Post our session we were chatting about customers and the high frequency of those who try and record / take photos of her and other girls unknowingly.

Apparently it's quite common, and to my disgust some guys get away with it.

To make matters worse the scenario that went down on the day of my visit saw the punter trying in vain to get a refund ontop, even though he was caught red handed.

Im sure that the majority of this forum's members are all far too considerate to perform acts like this, but if anyone is ever tempted please refrain.

For the shop owners that have to deal with these wankers and sicko's I'd name and shame then in an instant.

[Gregorious]

It may be difficult to get their real name unless police were involved and that could be unlikely.

But im pretty certain most places have cameras. Not too hard to grab a screen print and post it on all waiting room walls.

Im sure there are many things that can be done.

Forget the privacy debate because as soon as they do a low act like that all privacy rules go out the window.

[Mr Bastard]

Have recently returned from Jakarta, visited the best establishment I have ever been to any where in the world......IMO..............had my bag searched at the reception of the 7 story venue....yes 7 stories, I only visited the 7th floor...........the Gopro camera I had with me was never discovered, although I had no intention of concealing it, also no intention of using it for devious recordings, it was dutifully locked away with my passport, wallet (containing a substantial amount of many currencies) and my clothing of course, to say your disgusted by someone trying to secretly film a working girl seems a bit over the top, much worse acts being perpetrated by some whom dont pertake in the secret filming I could only imagine.......
But, each to their own........

OTB
(AKA)
MR B

[Gregorious]

I certainly thinks its digusting. For anyone not to also think so shows they have little or no respect for women and their rights to privacy.

Some guys think just because theyve paid their $150 or so dollars they can justify making their own porn video to get off on afterwards.

If just one guy reads this and hangs his head in shame and refrains from doing it again then it was worth my 2 mins of typing.

[Anaheim]

...yet some say we shouldn't exchange money for sexual favours.

"Mom, someone's throwing stones inside the glass house again!"

[wallyhead]

That type of practice is completely unlawful as well as rude, creepy and unacceptable.

[Anaheim]

I'm guessing you are one of those people who secretly record their session without WL/ML consent? ;) ;) ;)

...and you would know this how? Seems like you are talking out of your ass matey.

Careful, breaking forum rules # 2 and 3 can get you kicked out. Then You'd be stuck in your mum's basement with your 5TB of child porn with no one to talk to again. ;) ;) ;)

[AHLUNGOR]

...and you would know this how? Seems like you are talking out of your ass matey.

Careful, breaking forum rules # 2 and 3 can get you kicked out. Then You'd be stuck in your mum's basement with your 5TB of child porn with no one to talk to again. ;) ;) ;)

You sounds familiar ! When was the last time you got banned !

Senior member status was obtained overnight by posting a lot of pictures in the pictures thread (and nothing since!), very good planning ! But you just can't hide it the moment you open your mouth!

Another 8 inches !

[Anaheim]

You sounds familiar ! When was the last time you got banned !

Senior member status was obtained overnight by posting a lot of pictures in the pictures thread (and nothing since!), very good planning ! But you just can't hide it the moment you open your mouth!

Another 8 inches !

This is my only account. Lol. I don't get the 8 inches reference. Pls explain?!
Oh reaching GOD status by spamming the forum servers with gifs and pics...then talking down to other posters...i see you are quite the hypocrite there. No wonder other members hate u for your forum spamming guts. Sorry buddy, but you have zero credibility in my eyes.

[Mr Bastard]

we do come across some punters secretly taking photos / video of our stunners

when this is discovered

we normally ask our ladies to take a naked shot of the offender

just for the record:miao:


quality,,,,,,,,,

[Anaheim]

We do come across some punters secretly taking photos / video of our Stunners

When this is discovered

We normally ask our ladies to take a naked shot of the OFFENDER

Just for the record:miao:

Nice! Kudos to you 5star.

[Anaheim]

I guess we better keep an eye on him. He is a feisty one. ;) ;) ;)

Seems to me 5star is keeping an eye out for you. :) :) :) You seem waaaay too interested in what they do with those nude photos of you. ;) ;) ;)

[AHLUNGOR]

This is my only account. Lol. I don't get the 8 inches reference. Pls explain?!
Oh reaching GOD status by spamming the forum servers with gifs and pics...then talking down to other posters...i see you are quite the hypocrite there. No wonder other members hate u for your forum spamming guts. Sorry buddy, but you have zero credibility in my eyes.


Not as pathetic as you, whatever your user names where, posted 55 photos in the photo thread at 2am in the morning hoping no one would notice, then came out to post every where as a junior member !

My RnT thread just so happens to be the most viewed thread in the forum outside of rosters , beat that !

[MAX FAKE]

I recently had a conversation with a beautiful young lady I'd just visited.

Post our session we were chatting about customers and the high frequency of those who try and record / take photos of her and other girls unknowingly.

Apparently it's quite common, and to my disgust some guys get away with it.

To make matters worse the scenario that went down on the day of my visit saw the punter trying in vain to get a refund ontop, even though he was caught red handed.

Im sure that the majority of this forum's members are all far too considerate to perform acts like this, but if anyone is ever tempted please refrain.

For the shop owners that have to deal with these wankers and sicko's I'd name and shame then in an instant.

So if you think none of the forum members would do this why are you posting this here?

You are wasting your time here, what you should be doing is standing outside the room of the girl mentioned and checking every one of her customers for recording devices. Then you would be a real hero.

[Anaheim]

There there..,..If you wanted nude photos of me just say so, no need to be rude. I'll gladly give you one LOL. Or do you prefer nude photos of my dog? Hahaha

Anyway I think you need a hug. ;) ;) ;)

PFFT!!! HAHAHAHA. wait...I had to stop and show this to me mates...ROFL...we've never seen comebacks like this since like...wait...my boy's just spewed his coffee!
You, Sir, will do well in high school. hahaha. thank you for this brainfart. I think we got our guy right here! :D

[Anaheim]

Not as pathetic as you, whatever your user names where, posted 55 photos in the photo thread at 2am in the morning hoping no one would notice, then came out to post every where as a junior member !

My RnT thread just so happens to be the most viewed thread in the forum outside of rosters , beat that !

Woah woah! take it easy old man. No one's here to steal your crown. You are, without a shadow of a doubt, the single most undisputed king of spam in aus99!
Wear that with pride, I say! I still don't get the 8 inches reference - maybe it's something only royal spammers understand??

p.s. you do realize you just implicitly admitted the pathetic nature of your efforts to reach otherworldly status by filling up these servers with unnecessary binary gargabe? lol
just as a quick fyi; extra storage = extra costs for those who run this site. now back to your throne.

[Anaheim]

So if you think none of the forum members would do this why are you posting this here?

You are wasting your time here, what you should be doing is standing outside the room of the girl mentioned and checking every one of her customers for recording devices. Then you would be a real hero.

well said.

[Mr.aus]

Agreed.
Ahlungor's spamming ways have been the topic of much debate in this forum.
As posted already, take it easy old man!

Attacking members for the exact same thing that you do is so hypocritical that it's just as funny as your boasting about the number of views on your pathetic thread!


Woah woah! take it easy old man. No one's here to steal your crown. You are, without a shadow of a doubt, the single most undisputed king of spam in aus99!
Wear that with pride, I say! I still don't get the 8 inches reference - maybe it's something only royal spammers understand??

p.s. you do realize you just implicitly admitted the pathetic nature of your efforts to reach otherworldly status by filling up these servers with unnecessary binary gargabe? lol
just as a quick fyi; extra storage = extra costs for those who run this site. now back to your throne.

[Junkyard]

I kinda like that RnT thread lol

[Gregorious]

So if you think none of the forum members would do this why are you posting this here?

You are wasting your time here, what you should be doing is standing outside the room of the girl mentioned and checking every one of her customers for recording devices. Then you would be a real hero.

I didnt say none of the forum members wouldnt. I said the 'majority' of members. Where there is a majority there is also a 'minority' and i get the feeling the minority have read and feel quite ok with their acts and likely feel its ok.

Im not trying to be a hero. I dont need to be one and the girls are tough enough to look after themselves anyway.

Like i said if it deters one dirty bastard from recording his sorry ass in a session then thats all i care for.

Whats your opinion ? Is it justified and acceptable to sneek in a camera without consent?

[Anaheim]

You have mates?? omg.....are you sure? LOL

I pictured you as someone who is antisocial, who still lives with their mom at age 45, unemployed and who basically locks themselves in their room watching 5TB of child and animal porn all day.
Anyway I'll leave you alone now to enjoy your "indoor activities" ;) ;) ;) ...... Ciao

awww. recycling my comebacks? grasping at straws are we? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I shouldn't have stooped so low.
also, winking at me doesn't make me like you more, you know that right?
hopefully you can stay relevant to the thread next time so it wont be so obvious you're the village idiot.

[uglyphil]

I recently had a conversation with a beautiful young lady I'd just visited.

Post our session we were chatting about customers and the high frequency of those who try and record / take photos of her and other girls unknowingly.

Apparently it's quite common, and to my disgust some guys get away with it.

To make matters worse the scenario that went down on the day of my visit saw the punter trying in vain to get a refund ontop, even though he was caught red handed.

Im sure that the majority of this forum's members are all far too considerate to perform acts like this, but if anyone is ever tempted please refrain.

For the shop owners that have to deal with these wankers and sicko's I'd name and shame then in an instant.

Back OT...

Yes, this is despicable behaviour. It is also illegal and a form of assault.

I like 5-star's initiative, but I hope they go further by banning the losers who do such things, sharing these photos and descriptions with other shops, posting the photos and description to the ugly mugs website (or similar) AND report them to the police.

Although I also understand that, unfortunately, brothels reporting things to police can prove... problematic :(

[uglyphil]

to say your disgusted by someone trying to secretly film a working girl seems a bit over the top, much worse acts being perpetrated by some whom dont pertake in the secret filming I could only imagine.......
But, each to their own........

OTB
(AKA)
MR B

Unfortunately, I suspect this is also true and there are some punters out there who do things that are just as bad or worse to WLs.

That does not mean we should let a "lesser" crime go unnoticed though, does it?

[wilisno]

That does not mean we should let a "lesser" crime go unnoticed though, does it?
These are the key words ! ;) ;) ;)

[Mr Bastard]

I guess everyone has gone to church this morning confessing their sins

[lakeshow]

Not as pathetic as you, whatever your user names where, posted 55 photos in the photo thread at 2am in the morning hoping no one would notice, then came out to post every where as a junior member !

My RnT thread just so happens to be the most viewed thread in the forum outside of rosters , beat that !

I second Ahlungor on that. His reviews are timeless, and beneficial to other punters, who want to have a good time.
Remember that this forum is a resource, rather than a place to be cynical and criticise others. Love people!

[A44]

I second Ahlungor on that. His reviews are timeless, and beneficial to other punters, who want to have a good time.
Remember that this forum is a resource, rather than a place to be cynical and criticise others. Love people!

I agree with lakeshow on this.
I don't get the "venom" that some members have towards each other.
It is often not even relevant to the thread.

[rooter]

I guess everyone has gone to church this morning confessing their sins

ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

Say 10 "Hail Marys" and sin no more my naughty flock ... you are all such naughty boys, always fornicating away like crazy ...

[Mr Bastard]

I'm hearin ya

[rooter]

I'm hearin ya

Give me a hallelujah my sinful brother!

[AHLUNGOR]

I kinda like that RnT thread lol


Thanks for your support buddy!

My postings and researches on the RnT thread will continue thanks to all brothers who views and appreciates my efforts !!

This is what RnT is all about !

Who cares about the trolls and haters ?

Brother Wil will get them banned eventually.....haha

[wilisno]

Thanks for your support buddy!

My postings and researches on the RnT thread will continue thanks to all brothers who views and appreciates my efforts !!

This is what RnT is all about !

Who cares about the trolls and haters ?

Brother Wil will get them banned eventually.....haha
Why would I get them banned ?

I can lay out a case and persuade admin to ban someone if he's a liability to the forum, then it's up to admin's discretion to do it or not. Before that happens, you can't lock people up without a conviction !

[AHLUNGOR]

Why would I get them banned ?

I can lay out a case and persuade admin to ban someone if he's a liability to the forum, then it's up to admin's discretion to do it or not. Before that happens, you can't lock people up without a conviction !

Not even for repeated offender who had been banned before again, again and again ??

[wilisno]

Not even for repeated offender who had been banned before again, again and again ??

Admin knows about his existence too, so I don't need to get involved ... not because you said so anyway.

[Mr Bastard]

Paranoia will destroy-ya

[wilisno]

What a coincidence that this thread comes up again !

The hot mamasan of DreamGirls just told me an incident that happened yesterday that shows there are indeed despicable people around !

Yesterday, a guy booked Sara for an hour, he was wearing sunglasses, he left the sunglasses on after entering the room. Sara thought it was a bit rude but thought he might have some medical condition that he needed to wear sunglasses. But he left the sunglasses on even during the shower, that raised some suspicion so Sara paid special attention to the sunglasses and had a close inspection. She found something like a camera lens on the sunglasses, it's a spy camera ! So she pointed that out and the prick got angry and stormed out to get dressed, then ran not before he snatched the money from Sara !

The girl was in so much distress yesterday that she wanted to quit straight away !

Hope this will raise alert to girls in the industry if a guy left his sunglasses on !

[kingwally]

What a coincidence that this thread comes up again !

The hot mamasan of DreamGirls just told me an incident that happened yesterday that shows there are indeed despicable people around !

Yesterday, a guy booked Sara for an hour, he was wearing sunglasses, he left the sunglasses on after entering the room. Sara thought it was a bit rude but thought he might have some medical condition that he needed to wear sunglasses. But he left the sunglasses on even during the shower, that raised some suspicion so Sara paid special attention to the sunglasses and had a close inspection. She found something like a camera lens on the sunglasses, it's a spy camera ! So she pointed that out and the prick got angry and stormed out to get dressed, then ran not before he snatched the money from Sara !

The girl was in so much distress yesterday that she wanted to quit straight away !

Hope this will raise alert to girls in the industry if a guy left his sunglasses on !

Who the fuck would jump in the shower with sunglasses on? That would raise immediate wierdo instincts to anyone. I feel very sorry for the girl !

[garfield]

What a coincidence that this thread comes up again !

The hot mamasan of DreamGirls just told me an incident that happened yesterday that shows there are indeed despicable people around !

Yesterday, a guy booked Sara for an hour, he was wearing sunglasses, he left the sunglasses on after entering the room. Sara thought it was a bit rude but thought he might have some medical condition that he needed to wear sunglasses. But he left the sunglasses on even during the shower, that raised some suspicion so Sara paid special attention to the sunglasses and had a close inspection. She found something like a camera lens on the sunglasses, it's a spy camera ! So she pointed that out and the prick got angry and stormed out to get dressed, then ran not before he snatched the money from Sara !

The girl was in so much distress yesterday that she wanted to quit straight away !

Hope this will raise alert to girls in the industry if a guy left his sunglasses on !

Bastard, totally unacceptable.

[Sextus]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/waveflows/specs%202_zps1povptyd.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/waveflows/media/specs%202_zps1povptyd.jpg.html)

I wonder what gave him away? :shout:

[lockhart]

Wilison, please share the appearance, race, hair, color, height body build etc of this cheap shameless rubbish... for ML/WL to be aware off.. BTW , WL /ML should consider getting pepper spray handy and strike without warning when they are firm that some one try to video them...


What a coincidence that this thread comes up again !

The hot mamasan of DreamGirls just told me an incident that happened yesterday that shows there are indeed despicable people around !

Yesterday, a guy booked Sara for an hour, he was wearing sunglasses, he left the sunglasses on after entering the room. Sara thought it was a bit rude but thought he might have some medical condition that he needed to wear sunglasses. But he left the sunglasses on even during the shower, that raised some suspicion so Sara paid special attention to the sunglasses and had a close inspection. She found something like a camera lens on the sunglasses, it's a spy camera ! So she pointed that out and the prick got angry and stormed out to get dressed, then ran not before he snatched the money from Sara !

The girl was in so much distress yesterday that she wanted to quit straight away !

Hope this will raise alert to girls in the industry if a guy left his sunglasses on !

[Gregorious]

If it was my establishments id get a copy of his photo from cctv and post it in the waiting rooms.

Then anyone who was even thinking about it might think twice.

[Mr Bastard]

Hahahahahahahaha, the stupidity of some...if you believe it ROTFLMAO

[wilisno]

Wilison, please share the appearance, race, hair, color, height body build etc of this cheap shameless rubbish... for ML/WL to be aware off.. BTW , WL /ML should consider getting pepper spray handy and strike without warning when they are firm that some one try to video them...
He's a Japanese guy of around 60 years of age. Pepper spray is not recommended, if the guy turns violent, it's beyond the girl's ability to handle !

Anyway, Sara has decided to leave Australia in 3 days ! :(

[wilisno]

Hahahahahahahaha, the stupidity of some...if you believe it ROTFLMAO
What so funny about it ?

[Mr Bastard]

are u serious, the whole concocted story is hillarious, if its true? what type of moron thinks he will get away with it, I have seen those sunglasses, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, and on top of that,after being busted in the shower with the said sideshow-alley eye wear, MIRACULOUSLY his cash is still somewhere in his vicinity so he can steal it? surely not.....what luck this moron has.....too funny...oh my heart aches from the laughter

snatched it he did, not before he ran, what a spritely 60 yr old.......nothing funny here

[wilisno]

are u serious, the whole concocted story is hillarious, if its true? what type of moron thinks he will get away with it, I have seen those sunglasses, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, and on top of that,after being busted in the shower with the said sideshow-alley eye wear, MIRACULOUSLY his cash is still somewhere in his vicinity so he can steal it? surely not.....what luck this moron has.....too funny...oh my heart aches from the laughter
All I can say is, you have chosen your username correctly ! ;) ;) ;)

What's the purpose of making up a story like this ? Would anyone get any benefit out of it ?

[Mr Bastard]

Sticks n stones

[garfield]

He's a Japanese guy of around 60 years of age. Pepper spray is not recommended, if the guy turns violent, it's beyond the girl's ability to handle !

Anyway, Sara has decided to leave Australia in 3 days ! :(

That's sad.

[MAX FAKE]

Wilison, please share the appearance, race, hair, color, height body build etc of this cheap shameless rubbish... for ML/WL to be aware off.. BTW , WL /ML should consider getting pepper spray handy and strike without warning when they are firm that some one try to video them...

Easy big guy, there is no need for pepper spray. It will just make the situation worse for the girl. How about they just carry a gun? HAHA 'strike without warning'

This sort of thing would never happen in an establishment. The girls are more protected in that environment and it would be harder for the sickos to try anything.

The agency has a lot to answer for too. What do they actually provide for their share of the fee? Besides advertising and managing bookings? How about ensuring the girls safety and well being?

The Japanese seem to have a thing for this. Just last week I read in the south china morning post about a guy in Japan being arrested for hiding in the gutter for hours and filming school girls under skirt footage.

[wilisno]

Easy big guy, there is no need for pepper spray. It will just make the situation worse for the girl. How about they just carry a gun? HAHA 'strike without warning'

This sort of thing would never happen in an establishment. The girls are more protected in that environment and it would be harder for the sickos to try anything.

The agency has a lot to answer for too. What do they actually provide for their share of the fee? Besides advertising and managing bookings? How about ensuring the girls safety and well being?

The Japanese seem to have a thing for this. Just last week I read in the south china morning post about a guy in Japan being arrested for hiding in the gutter for hours and filming school girls under skirt footage.
This thing happens everywhere, in establishment too ! Many got caught red-handedly too I can tell you that.

Milo has caught one, I think Whisky caught one too while the Jap guy, yes, it was another Jap guy, finishes his shower and got out earlier and tried to take photos with his camera. His camera was smashed as a result !

[zucon]

Recording videos and taking photos is absolutely illegal and brothers you can land up with a police record so please do not do that ever. Rather wasting time in doing all this, enjoy the girl and enjoy the 30-60 minutes you paid for.
Also the girls exchanging money for service, the service has rules and guidelines. Imagine a girl recording you without your consent.

Yes, I know its sounds exciting to shoot porn like videos but there are girls outside of shop who do that. I have seen adv of girl on Cracker who offer it a price.

so please refrain, if caught it will be very embarrassing

[DreamGirls]

http://cfs13.tistory.com/image/36/tistory/2009/06/22/21/43/4a3f7c8a5c654
like this one:surprise:

[Sextus]

Dream Girls, it might only have been a pair of these he had on! :miao:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/waveflows/specs_zpsvuipibhc.jpeg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/waveflows/media/specs_zpsvuipibhc.jpeg.html)

[wilisno]

Dream Girls, it might only have been a pair of these he had on! :miao:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/waveflows/specs_zpsvuipibhc.jpeg (http://s92.photobucket.com/user/waveflows/media/specs_zpsvuipibhc.jpeg.html)
That's what you would try to tell the girls ? ;) ;) ;)

[rooter]

Reminds of two crappy 80s songs ...
"Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades"
"I wear my sunglasses at night" ;)
Happy punting brothers, and don't try to capture a moment with some piece of shit technology - just live it - if you are truly in the moment then it will be with you forever - if you pause to think about it or capture it or photograph it then you have lost it, betrayed it, defiled it, ruined it ... forever ...
Don't try to capture a moment; live that moment - don't take a selfie; live a selfie.

[Fisher]

And some wls openly encourage photos/videos being taken of them.
I have never taken up the offer on the rare occasion it has been suggested though.

[AHLUNGOR]

It will be much harder for an outcall girl to protect herself when she is visiting at the clients hotel room. He can just set up all the recording devices and the WL will have no chance !

[Littlewonder]

Any punter who records a lady without her permission is a dick head you should always respect any lady you see!

[babelx]

sun glasses in teh shower and in a dark room? I am surprised he could see anything at all??! That is the peak of wierdness!

[goulash]

You pay for time in the room, you're not buying all legal rights to the girl.

if the girl says no - it means NO.

And if you have to secretly film for fear of being discovered then you shouldn't really be doing it, should you?


...yet some say we shouldn't exchange money for sexual favours.

"Mom, someone's throwing stones inside the glass house again!"

[goulash]

I be heard first hand from a WL who did an out all with a shop regular only to catch him red handed filming her undress and while sucking his cock... She insisted that he delete it.

ADVICE TO WOULD BE FILM MAKERS: If you want to film a session, ask for permission. If you get off on the hidden cam thing; ask permission and the fake the hidden cam scenario. Most amateur porn you see is in fact professional porn. You think all on screen murders In horror films are real?


It will be much harder for an outcall girl to protect herself when she is visiting at the clients hotel room. He can just set up all the recording devices and the WL will have no chance !

[wilisno]

I be heard first hand from a WL who did an out all with a shop regular only to catch him red handed filming her undress and while sucking his cock... She insisted that he delete it.

ADVICE TO WOULD BE FILM MAKERS: If you want to film a session, ask for permission. If you get off on the hidden cam thing; ask permission and the fake the hidden cam scenario. Most amateur porn you see is in fact professional porn. You think all on screen murders In horror films are real?
Well said ! ;) ;) ;)

[wilisno]

sun glasses in teh shower and in a dark room? I am surprised he could see anything at all??! That is the peak of wierdness!

It's not a brothel. Incall/outcall apartments and hotels are not as dark as you think. Even in brothels, these things happen, recording devices don't need too much light nowadays !

[will2shy]

A despicable act ... how would these men feel if a WL/ML was filming them without their knowledge?

[snot77]

A despicable act ... how would these men feel if a WL/ML was filming them without their knowledge?

which makes me wonder ....
how much security cam footage is being recorded inside rooms ??

[Wayne]

It's not a brothel. Incall/outcall apartments and hotels are not as dark as you think. Even in brothels, these things happen, recording devices don't need too much light nowadays !

It's illegal, whether it's in a brothel or not. It is against the law to record -video or voice - anyone, anywhere, in any circumstance, unless prior permission is sought. End of story. And, if my understanding of the law is correct, one has an obligation to inform the police if one knows of an illegal activity.

One of my old regulars used to tell me there were several punters who tried to photograph her. It was the part of her job she hated the most, she said. I told her that she did not have to put up with it and ought to tell her mamasan. She replied, in Chinese: "I'd just lose my job if I did." One really has to feel for these women; they are under immense stress and face this sort of intimidation on a daily basis.

[Jrbarry]

It's illegal, whether it's in a brothel or not. It is against the law to record -video or voice - anyone, anywhere, in any circumstance, unless prior permission is sought. End of story. And, if my understanding of the law is correct, one has an obligation to inform the police if one knows of an illegal activity.


I think you're overreaching a bit there Wayne. We are recorded all over the place without prior permission, you can't walk down the street in the city without being recorded.

You may have a point about places where there is an expectation of privacy, say a toilet, change room, your room in a hotel, or a room in a brothel, but elsewhere is open slather.

These guys are arseholes though, and make it harder for the rest of us.

[Wayne]

I think you're overreaching a bit there Wayne. We are recorded all over the place without prior permission, you can't walk down the street in the city without being recorded.

Yeah, but isn't there something about torts or something - I obviously have little knowledge of law - that's implies a social contract. You accept the social contract by being a citizen, so accept the tenor of the laws. And under our Westminister system, one is innocent unless proven guilty of a crime. This carries through to all applications of the law. The survellance cameras in the streets, for example, are there to prevent crime; not there per se to record you. But you are correct, it is a fuzzy definition that I have never been quite able to get my head around. I don't think there is anything fuzzy about secretively recording a sexual interaction - it is simply illegal. Some things that are illegal are still socially acceptable (generally moral behaviour) but there is nothing even socially acceptable about stealing somebody else's privacy.

[Sextus]

It is against the law to record -video or voice - anyone, anywhere, in any circumstance, unless prior permission is sought. End of story.

You may only be referring to the sexual context here Wayne, and if so, you is correct. But just for the sake of public enlightenment, in a public place you are free to record / film / photograph whoever and whatever you like, anyone, anywhere in any circumstance. That is why we have essential social documentary / recorded history.

[Wayne]

You may only be referring to the sexual context here Wayne, and if so, you is correct. But just for the sake of public enlightenment, in a public place you are free to record / film / photograph whoever and whatever you like, anyone, anywhere in any circumstance. That is why we have essential social documentary / recorded history.

I'm not sure you are correct Sextus. I think laws have been changed in the name of antiterrorism and child protection; and in the interests of commercial property. I've got two personal anecdotes.
One, a former colleague of mine was arrested on Coogee Beach for filming surfers. The police charged him with filming minors. It was thrown out of court, but his career was finished.
Two, an acquaintance was fined for photographing the harbour bridge from the opera house. He is a professional journalist and the maritime board said he breached their copyright over the harbour shores - you are not allowed to photograph Sydney Harbour without permission.
I know these examples aren't exactly what you are talking about, both say that one needs to be very careful when recording.

[uglyphil]

You may only be referring to the sexual context here Wayne, and if so, you is correct. But just for the sake of public enlightenment, in a public place you are free to record / film / photograph whoever and whatever you like, anyone, anywhere in any circumstance. That is why we have essential social documentary / recorded history.

Not totally true Sextus.

There are many public areas where you cannot take a photo of a person without their written permission, such as a beach, park or a school. Often this has nought to do with "privacy" and more to do with you being a "nuisance". You may not be arrested, but your equipment may be confiscated and you will be moved on.

The situation that Wayne refers to with his friend who is a professional journalist is that he would be in breech of copyright as he would be making money from his images/video. The average tourist taking photos/videos of the environment (note, not people) for private use in a public place will be fine. This does not apply to all public areas BTW.

In any case, none of this has anything to do with the situation in this thread. Beyond any doubt, recording someone in a sexual situation without their permission in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy (which includes a brothel, hotel room, private residence etc) is illegal.

These are all outlined in the following articles:
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/street-photographers-rights/
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/filming-in-public-places/
and
http://www.lawstuff.org.au/wa_law/topics/article10

[wilisno]

Not totally true Sextus.

There are many public areas where you cannot take a photo of a person without their written permission, such as a beach, park or a school. Often this has nought to do with "privacy" and more to do with you being a "nuisance". You may not be arrested, but your equipment may be confiscated and you will be moved on.

The situation that Wayne refers to with his friend who is a professional journalist is that he would be in breech of copyright as he would be making money from his images/video. The average tourist taking photos/videos of the environment (note, not people) for private use in a public place will be fine. This does not apply to all public areas BTW.

In any case, none of this has anything to do with the situation in this thread. Beyond any doubt, recording someone in a sexual situation without their permission in a place where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy (which includes a brothel, hotel room, private residence etc) is illegal.

These are all outlined in the following articles:
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/street-photographers-rights/
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/filming-in-public-places/
and
http://www.lawstuff.org.au/wa_law/topics/article10
And also the photos and footage should not be published without permission from the subject.

[uglyphil]

And also the photos and footage should not be published without permission from the subject.

If you are going to use them for a commercial purpose, then yes, that is true also.

About 30 years ago some friends and I were playing soccer in a park on the foreshores of Balmain, most of us were in bathers only. Two people (male and female) showed up asked if they could photograph us for NSW Tourism. We said sure, and continued our game (I actually broke the photographer's nose when he got too close to the action, I forgot he was there and backed into him going for a header). Afterwards, they got us to sign releases, which we were happy to do.

[Bigfoot]

I think's it's wrong and just plain stupid.

There are WL who offer the service but of course for your use only. Some maybe not.

But to do it as hidden and sneaky way, I find it down right just well , I consider you and I don't just say this as keyboard warrior type. But I think I'd rather knock you out, because clearly a really wimpy type of pussy bastard who looks at children. That's my opinon on those who do such a thing.

I remember going into a high end place in Las Vegas - they search you pat down and metal detector and then they run this radio thing over you. this was just a very private gambling/many WL around type event. Put it this way, the nails in my R/M Williams set off this pad, I had to take them off once inspected. moved on.

Not saying it will ever get that way but, who's to say it won't one day.
Just because a select few have to ruin it for the rest.
I know it's a bit issue for the girls on call outs and risk they take.
Hopefully some of owners consider some further measures.

[babelx]

Once I've had the fortune of a WL actually taking my phone and starting to record the session. That was nice! I doubt that would ever happen again.... I think most will know who I am talking about.....

[zucon]

Once I've had the fortune of a WL actually taking my phone and starting to record the session. That was nice! I doubt that would ever happen again.... I think most will know who I am talking about.....

there was a service on cracker that allowed recording with consent.. works if u want to see you in sort of a porn video
doesn't appeal me much

[babelx]

there was a service on cracker that allowed recording with consent.. works if u want to see you in sort of a porn video
doesn't appeal me much

yes it said she will wear a mask! LOL.

Those cracker ads though. Never believe them. You'd get a pork chop who looks like they are on druuugz. I've walked away many times but also been duped many times.

[Sextus]

I'm not sure you are correct Sextus. I think laws have been changed in the name of antiterrorism and child protection; and in the interests of commercial property. I've got two personal anecdotes.
One, a former colleague of mine was arrested on Coogee Beach for filming surfers. The police charged him with filming minors. It was thrown out of court, but his career was finished.

How did it get to court? No wonder it was thrown out. Google Luna Park images (for example) and look at the avalanche of innocent photos of children being themselves. Minors in photographs is merely capturing public reality. The polices' highest purpose is to protect rights, not abuse them. In this case they should be better advised by their superiors, as they are subject to civil suits for wrongful arrest.


Two, an acquaintance was fined for photographing the harbour bridge from the opera house. He is a professional journalist and the maritime board said he breached their copyright over the harbour shores - you are not allowed to photograph Sydney Harbour without permission.


Suppose you use a telephoto lens and get shots of the harbour from Potts Point? :shout:

There was a report in the paper the other day at Barangaroo where Ken Duncan, AO, called the bluff of Sydney Harbour rangers who tried to prevent him taking photos. They threatened to call the police on this Order of Australia guy. He replied: "Bring it on. I can't wait to see tomorrow's headline: "Ken Duncan arrested for taking photos." :shout: A police officer said he'd come, sure - "to shake Duncan's hand."

It is just money grubbing council bullshit and toothless intimidation. Everyone has a civic duty to ignore them.

[juicykeyboard]

I heard that the firmware on mobile phones sold in Australia have the camera shutter sound built into them to prevent people talking photos/filming without consent. The sound on my old phone was pretty annoying and realised that I couldn't switch it off.

In terms of taking photos or video in public, in general I think it's legal unless you have caused some harm by taking the photo i.e. copyright in terms of a performance or nuisance in the case of taking pictures of other people.

I think I saw on the news that specific laws were introduced to make 'upskirting' illegal as well.

But what do you guys think about being filmed yourselves? I know for sure some places have security cameras. One time a girl told me she saw me walking in on the camera and I was a little shocked as I'd never thought of this before.

[Sextus]

Yes. anything found to be done for sexual or prurient reasons is justly right out. The evidence for wrongdoing is in the content of the photo itself. An innocent photo, no matter the subject matter, is defence all by itself.

Those upskirt guys are a bit of a laugh though. The photo is, funnily enough, always completely anonymous! :shout:

Anyone taking photos of people and being a nuisance is only going to get photos of people looking annoyed. A self-defeating exercise.

[juicykeyboard]

Those upskirt guys are a bit of a laugh though. The photo is, funnily enough, always completely anonymous! :shout:



True that. So I wonder, unless the guy was caught in the act, how can it proven in court that they harmed a particular person? If they get caugt with a bunch of those pictures surely you could argue you just downloaded them from the internet.

I think a bus driver got done for this earlier this year or last year.

[Wayne]

Careful Sextus, you're sounding awfully like you expect a bit of commonsense to prevail.

The Sydney Harbour Rangers and the attempts to control use of all foreshore images is absurd, but does highlight the inadequacy of copyright laws; which are so clearly outdated, outmoded and useless. I believe the copyright law that those rangers are applying (and on which all the big music and film corporations rely) were over devised 150 yeas ago.

And I think that is why this issue of seeking permission to use an image is so fraught. There are several aspects to this. One is that any reasonable person can say that the image is widely available (of the music rift, of the idea) but then some corporation comes along, places a commercial value of it and brandish a team of expensive lawyers. I'm thinking about the Men at Work song, but it can equally apply to a photo of the Opera House, of some other silly thing.

Another aspect, which is more pertinent to the title of this thread, is that a reasonable person might say an image is harmless; while another can say it invades privacy or exploits another. That bloke I mentioned at Coogee fell foul of the law because of this. He is a bit of an idiot who feels the world doesn't understand his brilliance, so he wanted to make the definitive documentary about Sydney. He is full of himself and I can well imagine him rubbing the cops up the wrong way. I suspect that's why he got himself arrested then charged.

The other side of the issue is public safety. This is the rationale the UK government has been using for their installation of cameras everywhere. It's also the reason brothels have surveillance cameras. The camera owners argue that they are ensuring public safety. But then who owns the images and what responsibility does the owner have toward the subjects of the images? If those arcane copyright laws are applied then the government/brothel owner can do what they like. Commonsense says that such images won't be published. But is commonsense always applied? And then there all those ex-girlfriend and such like shame websites. Whose stopping some aggrieved wife setting up a website with recordings from men entering brothels?

Commonsense again says any clandestine recordings can not be published. But then again, where is the commonsense once a recording is in the public domain?

Copyright laws were developed to protect the interests of a few rich people before the notion of cameras, let alone computers, were even dreamt of. Until those laws are brought into line with technology then there will always be someone or some corporation that can come down on you with a ton of bricks. So ends my rant for the day.

[AHLUNGOR]

I believe there are some sort of laws or regulations governing the use of CCTV. Like if you are walking into a shopping centre or hotel, and they have CCTVs in the premises, they must display a visible signage by the entrance advising visitors of such recording devices.

Now in terms of who actually owns the rights of those footages and recording, I have no idea. You may need a law degree to answer that............haha

[snot77]

Well thought out and presemted Wayne.

I always shudder when I see phrases such as what 'a resonable person' expects in laws.
The end result is gangs of lawyers to fighting it out, the little guy has no chance, the lawyers and big corps win.
For example the pharma industry, or copyrights on genetic code....


Careful Sextus, you're sounding awfully like you expect a bit of commonsense to prevail.

The Sydney Harbour Rangers and the attempts to control use of all foreshore images is absurd, but does highlight the inadequacy of copyright laws; which are so clearly outdated, outmoded and useless. I believe the copyright law that those rangers are applying (and on which all the big music and film corporations rely) were over devised 150 yeas ago.

And I think that is why this issue of seeking permission to use an image is so fraught. There are several aspects to this. One is that any reasonable person can say that the image is widely available (of the music rift, of the idea) but then some corporation comes along, places a commercial value of it and brandish a team of expensive lawyers. I'm thinking about the Men at Work song, but it can equally apply to a photo of the Opera House, of some other silly thing.

Another aspect, which is more pertinent to the title of this thread, is that a reasonable person might say an image is harmless; while another can say it invades privacy or exploits another. That bloke I mentioned at Coogee fell foul of the law because of this. He is a bit of an idiot who feels the world doesn't understand his brilliance, so he wanted to make the definitive documentary about Sydney. He is full of himself and I can well imagine him rubbing the cops up the wrong way. I suspect that's why he got himself arrested then charged.

The other side of the issue is public safety. This is the rationale the UK government has been using for their installation of cameras everywhere. It's also the reason brothels have surveillance cameras. The camera owners argue that they are ensuring public safety. But then who owns the images and what responsibility does the owner have toward the subjects of the images? If those arcane copyright laws are applied then the government/brothel owner can do what they like. Commonsense says that such images won't be published. But is commonsense always applied? And then there all those ex-girlfriend and such like shame websites. Whose stopping some aggrieved wife setting up a website with recordings from men entering brothels?

Commonsense again says any clandestine recordings can not be published. But then again, where is the commonsense once a recording is in the public domain?

Copyright laws were developed to protect the interests of a few rich people before the notion of cameras, let alone computers, were even dreamt of. Until those laws are brought into line with technology then there will always be someone or some corporation that can come down on you with a ton of bricks. So ends my rant for the day.

[juicykeyboard]

The other side of the issue is public safety. This is the rationale the UK government has been using for their installation of cameras everywhere. It's also the reason brothels have surveillance cameras. The camera owners argue that they are ensuring public safety. But then who owns the images and what responsibility does the owner have toward the subjects of the images? If those arcane copyright laws are applied then the government/brothel owner can do what they like. Commonsense says that such images won't be published. But is commonsense always applied? And then there all those ex-girlfriend and such like shame websites. Whose stopping some aggrieved wife setting up a website with recordings from men entering brothels?

Great post Wayne I think you've given a great run through of the problems with this stuff. Especially raising the UK putting so many surveilance cameras up, it's insane.

I do believe surveilance can be used for public safety but in the UK I feel like they are going full 1984.

[juicykeyboard]

I always shudder when I see phrases such as what 'a resonable person' expects in laws.

I had to do some law subjects when I was at uni and I was shocked that tons of common law relies on what we called "reasonable person test".

After learning about it I understand why they use these tests but still, it's kind of like an abstract idea, the "reasonable person". In life we probably meet less reasonable people than we can count on our fingers lol.

[Wayne]

I had to do some law subjects when I was at uni and I was shocked that tons of common law relies on what we called "reasonable person test".

After learning about it I understand why they use these tests but still, it's kind of like an abstract idea, the "reasonable person". In life we probably meet less reasonable people than we can count on our fingers lol.

I've never studied law or even any related subject. But I have had more than a few interactions with our legal system. And it is obvious that there is no such notion as right or wrong. There are poles staked in the ground - mostly based on Judeo/Christian/Islamic ideas; such as thou shall not kill, steal or covet thy neighbour's wife. But even these are open to interpretation according to circumstance. If we were to literally accept the 10 commandments, for example, there would be no armies killing and no governments stealing (those 150 big companies that didn't pay tax last year are stealing from the Australian community).

So everything comes down to an opinion. And this is where this notion of reasonableness, or commonsense, comes in. It is so bloody arbitrary. Everyone has differing notions of reasonableness according to their own individual background and education. An obvious example are our current and immediate post Prime Ministers. Both Sydney boys, GPS educated, lawyers, privileged, Rhodes scolars, members of the Liberal party. But then their sense of reasonableness could not be further apart. I know which one I would want to appeal to if they were my judge. Really, the law is an ass.

[CunningLinguist]

Really, the law is an ass.

Yep, sometimes I think it needs a good butt fuck!

[corvus]

There is a section under Crimes Act which prohibits recording footage for sexual gratification.

[wilisno]

There is a section under Crimes Act which prohibits recording footage for sexual gratification.

There you go, thank you ! ;) ;) ;)

[juicykeyboard]

There is a section under Crimes Act which prohibits recording footage for sexual gratification.

What if somebody gets turned on by something really mundane like a landscape?

[wilisno]

What if somebody gets turned on by something really mundane like a landscape?

Landscape is not a " footage " !

[juicykeyboard]

Landscape is not a " footage " !

Well you could certainly film a flowing river or something like that lol

[Sextus]

What if somebody gets turned on by something really mundane like a landscape?

Well there is the mundane and then there is the supermundane*.

And I reckon landscapes are supermundane.

Ken Duncan must think so too, because that is what he was trying to take when the council goons threatened to call the police on him - for taking pictures of the scenery. Can you fucken believe this? As Thomas Jeffersen said, resistance sometimes becomes a civic duty.

*Dictionary? :D

[juicykeyboard]

Well there is the mundane and then there is the supermundane*.

And I reckon landscapes are supermundane.

Ken Duncan must think so too, because that is what he was trying to take when the council goons threatened to call the police on him for taking pictures of the scenery. Can you fucken believe this? As Thomas Jeffersen said, resistance sometimes becomes a civic duty.

*You might need a dictionary for that. :D

Yeah councils are such bullshit.

One other thing that comes to mind is the porn where women smoke have you seen it? It's bizarre, basically a woman just sits there talking and smoking. Some guys get off on it apparently so I guess this could be considered illegal as well!

[shinobi]

What if somebody gets turned on by something really mundane like a landscape?

someone will 'grass' on him?

[wilisno]

Well you could certainly film a flowing river or something like that lol

You can get a hard on watching that ??? ;) ;) ;)

[juicykeyboard]

someone will 'grass' on him?

Lol, well played

[juicykeyboard]

You can get a hard on watching that ??? ;) ;) ;)

Haha, I wish. Life would be so much simpler.

[YI88]

Something funny happened to a friend of mine yesterday that reminded me of this thread.

He had taken a Japanese girl for a bit of country life and, being a hot day, skinny-dipping in a farm dam. There he was swimming lazily backwards in the warm upper layer when he noticed little brother just break the surface, probably more from buoyancy than excitement. A few more strokes and he noticed j-girl taking a movie with her new Sony waterproof phone.

He said that his first reaction was to think that she had not asked, but then he remembered that Japanese often like to make a record of their adventures down under and if he did not want to be filmed then he should not be associating with them. Then he thought chuffed at the idea that she thought this old fella's old fella was worth recording.

I agree, but imagine the reverse situation.