13 Billions on JobKeeper Payment, good for employees ! not so good for employers ??

[AHLUNGOR]

Just did some calculations for my own company, if we register and participate in the scheme and start paying the $1,500 a fortnight to our full time staff (where we have to top them up to everyone's full salary anyway), including all those who are currently on annual leave or LSL then pay the casual staff the same, we will ended up more than $8,000 a week worst off.

Some casuals only worked 1 or 2 shifts a week will be laughing, so are all the full timers, it's Not a good deal for the employer though. Especially those with short term cash flow problem, having to pay so much wages and won't see a cent from the government until May. It is still Not clear how the Government is going to reimburse the employers, if you get something like a tax credit shit instead of cash in your account, you will all be damned !

Thoughts ?

[Climax598]

AL you job is to update Rnt thread. Forget about this 130 billion dollar handout. Tommorow Scomo is going to spend more on other things. We will paying this for 50 year with very high Taxes.

[skyhigh1224]

Hey man, firstly I hope that you and your family are surviving well during this time. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that your business doesn’t experience the 30% decrease in revenue that is required to be eligible for this.

That said, if things take a turn for the worse and you do see a drop and want to claim this, have you considered negotiating with your employees to NOT top up their pay? Topping up is up to the employer, you don’t have to do it. Although employees may not like it, it would be better to have a reduction to $750/week for a while, and have their normal salary waiting for them at the end of all this than to simply be made redundant and only the $550/week job seeker payment.

I know if my boss gave me the choice between redundancy or a temporary paycut to $750/week, I’d probably choose the paycut and just cut back on a few luxuries and live off some savings to make it work.

Good point about how they are Will administer this and how you’ll actually receive this benefit.

Nice topic, and all the best.

[AHLUNGOR]

Hey man, firstly I hope that you and your family are surviving well during this time. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that your business doesn’t experience the 30% decrease in revenue that is required to be eligible for this.

That said, if things take a turn for the worse and you do see a drop and want to claim this, have you considered negotiating with your employees to NOT top up their pay? Topping up is up to the employer, you don’t have to do it. Although employees may not like it, it would be better to have a reduction to $750/week for a while, and have their normal salary waiting for them at the end of all this than to simply be made redundant and only the $550/week job seeker payment.

I know if my boss gave me the choice between redundancy or a temporary paycut to $750/week, I’d probably choose the paycut and just cut back on a few luxuries and live off some savings to make it work.

Good point about how they are Will administer this and how you’ll actually receive this benefit.

Nice topic, and all the best.





Employer with employees on different wages
Adam owns a real estate business with two employees. The business is still operating at this stage but Adam expects that turnover will decline by more than 30 per cent in in the coming months. The employees are:
• Anne, who is a permanent full-time employee on a salary of $3,000 per fortnight before tax and who continues working for the business; and
• Nick, who is a permanent part-time employee on a salary of $1,000 per fortnight before tax and who continues working for the business.
Adam is eligible to receive the JobKeeper Payment for each employee, which would have the following benefits for the business and its employees:
• The business continues to pay Anne her full-time salary of $3,000 per fortnight before tax, and the business will receive $1,500 per fortnight from the JobKeeper Payment to subsidise the cost of Anne’s salary and will continue paying the superannuation guarantee on Anne’s income;




Thanks Skyhigh for your kind wishes, same to you and your family and to the wider community here in this forum's members and their families.

Attached above is a direct example from the Government Fact Sheet on the scheme, I don't think not paying the full salary of the full time staff is optional.

The reason why I said it's not that good to the employers is that with the scheme going for say, six months, you are not clearing any of the staff's leaves entitlements and in fact they keep accumulating, the staff have to pay tax, the employers have to pay super plus the salary gaps. and hidden cost such as payroll tax and Work Covers will all add up down the track too.

just saying it.

[studsg]

Thanks Skyhigh for your kind wishes, same to you and your family and to the wider community here in this forum's members and their families.

Attached above is a direct example from the Government Fact Sheet on the scheme, I don't think not paying the full salary of the full time staff is optional.

The reason why I said it's not that good to the employers is that with the scheme going for say, six months, you are not clearing any of the staff's leaves entitlements and in fact they keep accumulating, the staff have to pay tax, the employers have to pay super plus the salary gaps. and hidden cost such as payroll tax and Work Covers will all add up down the track too.

just saying it.I agree with skyhigh. I believe this subsidy is more towards scenarios rather than laying off your staff. Employers can keep them on reduced rate, probably reduced work hours, etc as well. Especially if biz has dropped 30% you won't need the same amount of hours from the staff you were planning to layoff anyways.

[studsg]

Have you thought about how much it will cost you to recruit staff/train new staff etc when things pick up? Maybe the staff you put off now will go elsewhere when things pick up as your company didn't support them during this time. Just coming from a different angle that's all.Been in plenty of manager meetings and none of them bother about the cost of retraining new staff. The answer to them is always just hire experienced workers. Even though they fail to understand every organisation still has their own unique process that no matter the level of experience, anyone new to the company still has to pick up.

[studsg]

But I mean when this is over and things start to pick up a savvy manager would surely go for good experienced workers that can hit the road running.Yup agree.

Probably just me. But I haven't met a savvy manager yet. Plenty that are keen to just score quick wins around though [emoji6]

[Climax598]

Yup agree.

Probably just me. But I haven't met a savvy manager yet. Plenty that are keen to just score quick wins around though [emoji6]
No manager want to hire a person more experience and better than them. You know why.

[Midnight_Prowl]

Ah bro,
Not sure if this will work
You ask you Full time staff to work part time so they earn $1,500 and reminder tell them to take annual leave or LSL.
This way it will reduce your entitlement.

Other part timer or casual will fill the gap.

Also NSW payroll tax has exemption as well, i forgot what it is was but in my bank i calculated about $90K saving for the reminder of the year.

Hope that helps

[trampslikeus55]

Just my 2 cents worth. I checked whether I am in or out and there is still a grey area that relates to a business remaining open but suffers a downturn of 30%. There is the fog spot. Downturn of 30% from last month. Same month last year. Same month you actually made a decent wage (2016). We will be advised of the detail forthcoming. ATO speak for we haven't got a clue yet. So what happens. Everyone is now closing down. And you wouldn't expect anything different. For the majority of workers/staff out in the suburbs $1000 per week is a good wage. So the boss is thinking how am I going to keep going when all I can see is cash for the next 2 weeks. Bingo. Scott the Provider arrives. Funds for 8 weeks and I can take a break also. It may be a lurk. It may be what the government waited. My only guess is that 130 BILLION ain't enough.
I don't want to debate the problem of the virus but here is 2 observations. I am not sure of the dates but the first time our PM appears on TV to tell us how we will all be ok "and we should carry on life as normal " I think it was a Wednesday. By the Saturday the Grand Prix was off and just about everything turned on its head. Next appearance of note was the night "that I cannot understand the panic buying and we should all cease this madness " He may as well fired the starting gun because from the next day it was nearly impossible to get anything, not just toilet paper. Just goes to show the level of support the masses give our pollies. Still, while the noise around this virus is deafening, there is a positive. The left have a least forgotten about climate change and Greta may finally fade into mythology 😉😉 Keep safe all. I am not an expert but I think we have found the flicker of light at the end of that dark tunnel. I just hope the PM doesn't tell us that🤞🤞

[trampslikeus55]

And to add, just before you all think I am "ungrateful" or pollie bashing here is were I am coming from. In the first stimulus package my business was to receive 50% of the PAYG for each employee for 6 months up to the value of $25K. Easy, straight forward and if I am honest then I can pay my staff for minimum of 4 months. ATO probably had a coronary. Second stimulus package arrives, better than the first (Josh the Fryman) Now I get 100% for 6 months but oop's, we will offset it against the GST that I am to pay. ATO back in the driver's seat. I am sure everyone here in business or with a business knows that the 1st quarter BAS payment is harder to find than rocking horse shit. Even the ATO give you extensions. So now we are at stimulus package 3. My take again is the lurk. But also the slogan that the Libs will use at the next election. We saved the country. Whilst others closed (England, NZ) we didn't need to have a total lockdown because we knew what to do. When the reality is that the masses lockdown the country for them. No brainer really. Good business practice 101. And absolutely straight from a script of Yes Minister. As my old boss used to say. "if you haven't got an answer to the problem, your part of the problem " Again, stay safe all🙃🙃

[AHLUNGOR]

Saw a few news reports on various channels complaining about the Jobkeeper is excluding all working holiday visa holders!

Plenty of noises from the farming community as they are losing backpack workers which is about 80% of their work force. Put it quite simply, no local Aussie people are interested in working in the country farmland picking fruits or chopping up cabbages ! The other 20% were New Zealanders ? They are afraid that when the next harvest time comes around they won’t be able to pick the fruits in time to get them out to the market !

In another news, a hotel owner in Melbourne who runs several apartments in the CBD said most of his cleaning staff are working holiday visa or student visas, he always preferred to employ local people but every time he advertised for staff, hardly ever any Aussie will apply, and the very few he got over the years, once they started working - which is mostly housekeeping cleaning jobs , all left very quickly complaining about the jobs too hard. In his articles , this guy said if he joined the Jobkeeper, only 4 out of his 50+ work force will qualify !

[Dr Hong]

Saw a few news reports on various channels complaining about the Jobkeeper is excluding all working holiday visa holders!

Yes 4 of my 6 employees are not eligible as they are here on student working visas. If i stand them down they will be almost destitute, with no way of getting home. There must be alot of WL, ML and hospitality workers in this situation. The government is only helping Australians and permanent residents. Politically I can see why they are doing this, but it still hurts Australian businesses and shines a poor light on our country all the same.

[punterz]

Our bosses are talking about us full-time staff going to a reduced part-time status, having to clear leave and such, in the hope of avoiding redundancies.

[Climax598]

Our bosses are talking about us full-time staff going to a reduced part-time status, having to clear leave and such, in the hope of avoiding redundancies.
You are lucky you still have a part time job. Clearing leave only drain any business cash flow.

[AHLUNGOR]

Drawing on everyone’s expert knowledge here: if an employer joins the Jobkeeper scheme, can they then ask the employee to take annual leaves and /or long services leave while claiming the Jobkeeper ? Effectively getting subsidised by the government to pay out the staffs entitlement? Can they?

Eg. without jobkeeper, this company has sent 10 of its full time staff on A/L or LSL on an average of $1,000 per person per week.

With Jobkeeper, the company still pay them the $1,000 pp but getting $750 pp back from the government! And clearing all the leave entitlement!!

[annintofu]

Yes 4 of my 6 employees are not eligible as they are here on student working visas. If i stand them down they will be almost destitute, with no way of getting home. There must be alot of WL, ML and hospitality workers in this situation. The government is only helping Australians and permanent residents. Politically I can see why they are doing this, but it still hurts Australian businesses and shines a poor light on our country all the same.

solution is simple: biz owners put up their own money to support their valuable staff on visitors visa. put your money where your mouth is.

biz owners have the money to buy big houses，go on overseas trips, visit brothels every week, dine out at expensive restaurants. so don't ask other taxpayers to support these overseas students or backpackers who are vital to "your" business.

[Climax598]

Drawing on everyone’s expert knowledge here: if an employer joins the Jobkeeper scheme, can they then ask the employee to take annual leaves and /or long services leave while claiming the Jobkeeper ? Effectively getting subsidised by the government to pay out the staffs entitlement? Can they?

Eg. without jobkeeper, this company has sent 10 of its full time staff on A/L or LSL on an average of $1,000 per person per week.

With Jobkeeper, the company still pay them the $1,000 pp but getting $750 pp back from the government! And clearing all the leave entitlement!!
The answer is No. The Government is paying you as normal wages as if you are working not on holiday. Call up ATO/Centrelink.

[trampslikeus55]

Drawing on everyone’s expert knowledge here: if an employer joins the Jobkeeper scheme, can they then ask the employee to take annual leaves and /or long services leave while claiming the Jobkeeper ? Effectively getting subsidised by the government to pay out the staffs entitlement? Can they?

Eg. without jobkeeper, this company has sent 10 of its full time staff on A/L or LSL on an average of $1,000 per person per week.

With Jobkeeper, the company still pay them the $1,000 pp but getting $750 pp back from the government! And clearing all the leave entitlement!!

Hi AL. This is one of the foggy areas mate. First, your business needs to qualify. Thus income needs to be down 30 or 50% depending on the business. Then you will be subsided for each employee up to $1500 per fortnight. My reading and understanding is that the business is to run as normal. That is if you are open, staff work and if you are not open, staff obviously don't work. The fog is let's say you planned to have 3 months LS starting in May. I think your company is entitled to claim Jobkeeper for you in your absence and pay relative tax and superannuation entitlements. But as usual, speak to the accountants. As for the bosses creating Annual leave, I would consider that employees have no obligation to go. Might cause friction but it may save everyone in the long run. Couple of points that need to be remembered here. Scott the Provider came up with Jobkeeper as a way of good companies and businesses being able to keep their staff after he slammed the doors down. Hence, you have been hibernated but your core strengths have not deserted you also. Good moral ground. Next important point is that when this legislation was enacted they included the provisions for criminal prosecution. This means that if you get caught rorting the game, you can go to jail. Again good moral ground. This is not a Job creation stimulus, therefore there is no obligation that you need to work to be paid. In fact it is probably the complete opposite. Go hard but tread warily would be my best advice👍